"Pass it now and we'll fix it later!"

[last1standing]

Wasn't that the mantra for ACA in 2010?

The idea was that we needed to get a healthcare bill (any bill) passed so that we'd have a base to work with once it was implemented.

Well, guess what? It's being implemented now and we're finding that a minority of Americans with moderate incomes will be hurt by increased coverage costs with little or no subsidies.

Yet instead of acknowledging this fact, the same posters who screamed loudest that we needed to "pass it now and we'll fix it later!" are insulting, bullying, and dismissing those who are finding flaws in the system.

Maybe, just maybe, this isn't all about attacking Obama or ACA. Maybe there are real problems with the current law.

Maybe we should try to find out what the problems are so that they can be fixed instead of building resentments.

This is the time to gather information so that we can make ACA better. The alternative is to ignore the problems until the other side gets enough support to repeal it.

So how about a new mantra?

"Try it now and we'll fix it soon!"

[seabeyond]

1. is that a fact? the very same posters? cause i cannot remember what poster was saying what way

back then.

reality, i think we all knew that middle and upper middle were not getting a benefit from this. i am not on anyones ass because they are saying they are not getting a benefit out of ACA cause they make too much money. it is the reality we were well aware of.

what do you want???

and aaaahhhhhh?

[TreasonousBastard]

2. I'm not sure who was who in the screaming matches, but...

I am pretty sure that nobody here is in any position to make serious changes in the real world, so I let it go.

This is a discussion board, not so much an action board, so discuss away...

[last1standing]

4. Discussion was the point.

Thanks for pointing it out, though.

[Autumn]

3. Yes, there are problems. Those problems will be fixed.

To get bent out of shape because posters are talking about them says a lot about the people that are having fits about those posts. Rec for your post

[last1standing]

9. Thanks. I knew this OP wouldn't be popular but I thought it needed to be said.

There's a witch hunt going on at DU right now seeking out anyone who makes an "anti-ACA" claim and then bullying them into submission. That's repulsive behavior.

If someone is coming here to troll, they'll make themselves evident and be tombstoned. There's no need for the DU Vigilantes to make those decisions for admin or the rest of us.

[KelleyD]

5. I blame my teapulican governor and state legislature in Indiana for their backward asshat refusal of

expanding the Medicaid benefits not the ACA. I am thoroughly disgusted with our backward state.

[last1standing]

6. Quite a few states are refusing to expand Medicaid and I don't know if that can be fixed.

Since the SCOTUS has ruled mandatory expansion out in the manner it was to be implemented, I don't know if there's a legislative route to doing so or if we need to get another body on the Court who understands the need for society.

[kelliekat44]

7. OMG. Can we wait until at least 60 days has passed?

Of course the system will have kinks and some aspects will need to be revised, changed or maybe even eliminated. But we should at least wait until March when sign-up ends to see what shakes out as really hurting people or helping people.

[last1standing]

10. OMG! No, we can't.

We should find out about problems as soon as possible so that we can come up with good solutions.

Or are you part of the "ignorance is bliss" brigade?

[leftstreet]

8. The employer mandate and caps-on-costs already delayed

But, is that part of fixing-it-later?

[last1standing]

11. It's definitely pushing off part of the plan.

I wish they had implemented it so we could see how it works. We can't fix something if we don't know about it.

[Autumn]

12. Good question

I guess one could say that's a temporary fix....... for employers and insurance companies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. There is a reason why I moved my meaty analysis off site

though these days I have not done squat over the ACA. Though, I hope this gives you hope. SS did stink to high heaven when it was originally passed. So did Medicare. They were fixed.

Granted. to fix them we need to admit there are issues. Quite frankly I am not shocked there are issues.

[last1standing]

15. Of course there are issues. It would be insane to think something this big would have issues.

Even my preferred option, single payer, would have had major issues. The problem isn't that there are issues, the problem is those trying to ignore or stifle discussion of the issues.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. As far as I am concerned, they win

major debate on issues is not wanted or needed. This is not the DU I joined back in the day. It is the choice of those who allow such bully behavior to continue. I might do some posting, not here, on the ACA. But for the moment, I have been keeping my energy on the current shutdown\debt ceiling. I also need to go back to some labor posts.

They will go so far as to claim that one does not do what one does for a professional job. So they win. I am pretty much done. I guess the police issued media card came in a box of crackerjacks.

On a serious note, I expect the adults, not those here, to actually look at these problems seriously, and fix them. That said, not with the current Congress. I am sure Obama is hoping for the recalcitrant idiots in the do nothing Congress of 1948. You could work with them, somewhat.

[last1standing]

19. I recently came back after a four year break from DU.

And I still have more time in than most of those claiming to speak for the entire site. But I have to admit, I don't have nearly the number of posts as most of them do. I'd prefer to wait until there's something to say before posting.

Yes, this program will be fixed with a different congress, and probably a different president. This legislature is far to racist and greedy to work on real issues. They'll be repealing ACA for the next several years knowing full well that it will die in the senate.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

14. you need to be directing your ire to Republican representatives, Governors, state legislatures

nothing will be fixed with ACA with the current crop of shit-tastic Repukes? Savvy?

[truedelphi]

16. K & R. n/t

[solarhydrocan]

18. k+r

[Union Scribe]

20. The witch-hunters demanding

that other posters supply personal info are creepy.

[Cal Carpenter]

21. ^^

This.

[treestar]

26. That is a very exaggerated claim

Or, why then put personal stuff on the internet? Saying Obamacare won't work for me - well if you won't back that up what's the point? You haven't proven that the premiums were really worse. And the situation is for real - like the one who posted something about an increase in premiums and it turned out it had nothing to do with Obamacare.

[Skip Intro]

31. +100! Make that an OP! Seriously!

[ProSense]

45. Yes, make it an OP so

that we can discuss why people are posting personal information (My premium is X, how can that be?) and then expecting a discussion or advice based on what?

I see people posting detailed information about their positive experiences on the exchange. Most of the posts that are negative make vague statements and then expect others to discuss, clarify and advise them without any knowlegde of the details.

It makes for a confusing discussion, and certainly can't lead to any informed advice.

Still, posting personal information is a choice, and if one doesn't want to discuss his/her personal situation he/she shouldn't post it. The information related to the exchange can easily be discussed in hypotheticals without making it personal.

[1000words]

32. Indeed.

[last1standing]

39. I can't disagree with you on that.

Personally, I think that any poster demanding another's personal information should be automatically banned.

Unfortunately, I don't make the rules here so creepers can continue to bully and stalk those they disagree with.

[Whisp]

47. and fakers will continue to fake. n/t

[last1standing]

61. So what if they do?

You've been hear long enough to know that trolls always end up outing themselves. What purpose does another DU witch hunt serve other than to scare people away and give the villagers entertainment?

I'll take a few trolls in order to get more DUers with valid opinions.

[dkf]

54. Yes they are goading people into making stupid decisions.

Shame.

[BluegrassStateBlues]

22. With this Congress, the only thing you'll get is repeal or defunding.

So calling for fixes isn't the best way to go about this for the time being.

[last1standing]

38. If we don't look to fix it then it will be repealed by popular demand.

This program is far better than what we had before (which is nothing) but if the Democrats aren't willing to revisit the plan and fix its issues, it will fail.

I didn't like ACA from the start but now that we have it I want it to succeed. The alternative is so much worse.

[bvar22]

23. I'll stand with you.

Ignoring problems does NOT make them go away.
Blaming the people having problems with the Insurance Reforms, The Mandate, The Exchanges, especially in the Middle/Lower Income groups is SOP for the self-absorbed well off.

The demand that members of DU post their personal Financial Data on DU
is beyond CREEPY,
and that such a post collects over 104 Recs here is very discouraging.



You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[KoKo]

30. Agree bvar22...I didn't like that folks had to put so much Private Info

out there online...multiple times..because of the Glitches and coming so soon after NSA Revelations.

But, I figure that there are so many younger than me who don't remember Privacy and they Need this care....so they don't have the same concerns as the somewhat older generation has about PRIVACY ...because they've not known it...or they trust that they still have it.

But, if one is desperate for Health Insurance because of all the Employment Problems and stuff folks have gone through for years....I guess PRIVACY isn't a priority if one can finally have access to Health Care.

I wish it wasn't that way...but, the reality is we "sell our souls" these days for less giving away so much of our privacy to those who exploit us.

Let's hope that the "ACA Sites" have put in place heavy privacy and that none of this comes back to bite anyone. That the Glitches will be worked out and that at least "SOME PART of ACA" will benefit those who've so long gone without any health care because they weren't working or had conditions that excluded them.

But...I wish the whole Program of ACA had been ROLLED OUT in a more Consumer Friendly Way. There was enough time...but, I guess the Privatization of the Roll Out came down to saving the Taxpayers Money.

Personally, I would have been happier to foot the bill with MY TAX MONEY...but, then...there are others who wouldn't. And the Sentiment in the WH was that Privatizing it was the Better Way... So...hopefully it will get better.

[last1standing]

33. Thanks, bvar.

You're right, too many here think that ignoring the problems or bullying those who talk about them will make it all go away but it won't. I didn't support ACA because I believe that guaranteeing a private business 20% profit and forcing every uninsured citizen to pay that 20% profit is unethical. However, 20% profit for guaranteed insurance is better than nothing at all so I want this plan to work as well as it can. I don't want it to fail.

I'm often called a purist because I support Democratic viewpoints and actually want them to prevail. But the "Obamacare Purists" demand absolute fealty to the existing program regardless of its flaws. This fealty will only lead to failure of the plan.

So who supports Obama and ACA more, those who want to fix its flaws or those who refuse to accept any dissent?

[ProSense]

24. Donna Smith: While We Wait for Single Payer Obamacare Needs to Work

Donna Smith: While We Wait for Single Payer Obamacare Needs to Work
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023793849

Single Payer movement in the era of Obamacare
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023793849#post3

Although some states rejected the expansion, half of the 17 million Americans eligible for Medicaid will get it in the states that expanded. That's more than 8 million people.

Millions more are qualifying for subsidies and saving thousands of dollars.

Obamacare will be successful, and it will be improved and single payer will get here.

[last1standing]

34. It will only be improve if those who support it are willing to fix its flaws.

Blue links be Damned, I want this flawed, private corporation subsidizing, plan to work. It's not what I supported in 2009, but its here and it's better than nothing so let's fix its flaws to make it something that we can be proud of.

ACA will only be successful if we can admit its problems and fix them before the other side can galvanize support to destroy it.

[ProSense]

40. Do you envision a slew of people who don't want the law improved? n/t

[last1standing]

41. I envision a slew of people taking personal offense at the suggestion that the law isn't perfect.

And I only have to look at the "Latest Threads" page of DU to see who those people are.

You and I don't agree on much in this forum but I sincerely hope that we both agree that ACA is far, far better than what we had before. I want it to succeed and I want it to cover as many people as thoroughly as possible.

That won't happen if we can't fix the issues that appear because we're afraid to confront the republicans or if we look at any complaint as a personal attack on president Obama.

Let's honestly assess the program and fix what flaws become apparent. Any other approach dooms ACA to failure.

[questionseverything]

55. the mechanism for funding is regressive

i can't get over how when we raised taxes 450,000 was wealthy but with the aca 60 grand is

for anyone that has an on going medical problem they will be paying 25-26% of their income evry year(in that 60-94 grand range)

the premiums starting at 2% is ok,if people could then afford to use it, but it rises way to quickly

the writers knew this or they would not have put in the 8% exception

[treestar]

25. Medicare has been fixed over and over again over 60 or more years

This is just starting.

[last1standing]

35. I agree.

The problem I have is with those posters trying to bully others into not talking about what needs to be fixed. ACA isn't the plan most of us would have preferred but now that it's here, let's make it the best plan it can be.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. "We're finding" no such thing.

The law is a MASSIVE improvement. It is a good development. And it's only going to get more popular.

[last1standing]

37. Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just ignorance.

You can demand that your belief be accepted as fact, but there is too much proof that a minority of lower middle class workers are being harmed by ACA to deny that the law needs to be fixed.

That is unless you really want to live in ignorance...

[Warren DeMontague]

49. What needs to be fixed are the Red States that have refused the built-in medicaid expansion.

That's what needs to be fixed. The law as it is is fine.

[Plays In Traffic]

28. We could fix it, improve it, or even pass true reform such as single payer

But there are some people standing in the way - Republicans. Instead of focusing on problems with the ACA, we are focused on keeping it alive and steering around a government shutdown and possible debt ceiling default.

It is frustrating that we have this loud vocal minority undermining progress in this country.

[last1standing]

42. The best way to keep ACA alive is to fix its flaws, not to deny them.

n/t

[Demo_Chris]

48. We call that vocal minority the desperate. You know, the millions who don't have extra money...

They can donate to subsidize reduced cost insurance for the affluent.

[KoKo]

29. Well it seems a good number of DU'ers are trying it and reporting the problems

and hopefully with every week it all will get better. It's a couple more months for the first Cut Off and then and Extension. So, hopefully they are listening and working hard to correct the the Glitches.

[last1standing]

36. A majority seem to think it is far better than what was available before.

And I'm incredibly glad the plan is working as well as it appears to be. The problem is that some people who do not make very much money are apparently being forced to pay much more for healthcare than they were before. If this is the case, we need to figure out how to make these plans work for the lower middle class who are currently being harmed.

[Demo_Chris]

50. A "majority" don't have a clue what this law even is...

Let's not kid ourselves about that. The country, as yet, doesn't even know what this miracle plan does. The majority, likely as not, thinks this is free healthcare. How would they know? The overwhelming majority can't even sign up if they want to. And right now there are millions and millions of people who have ZERO savings, they have nothing left over at the end of every month, who are going to one day discover that they are now faced with yet another bill for an insurance policy they don't understand and couldn't afford to use if they wanted to.

[Arkana]

43. Maybe because people who supported the law

are besieged enough on the right by the wacko birds and don't need their so-called "allies" going "Well maybe they have a point!"?

[last1standing]

44. I love the argument that progressives have to shut up because the right wing is mean.

But it doesn't fly.

Progressives aren't trying to destroy ACA, we're trying to save it, even though we know it's far from the best plan possible.

Still, if you need to believe that the mean, nasty progressives are trying to take your cake from you, that's what you need to believe. Enjoy your victimhood.

[cui bono]

51. +1

Same as when we're told not to object to anything that hasn't happened yet. When are we supposed to object, after the fact, when it's too late to do anything about it?

Some people don't understand how democracy works.

[djean111]

52. +1000

Breaking bulletin - we are not supposed to object to anything. Ever. Or breathe the slightest criticism. Not even supposed to refer back to actual statements.

[QC]

60. Bingo!

We are to trust and obey, in the words of an old hymn.

[Demo_Chris]

46. Those benefiting from its current form gain nothing by seeing it fixed...

The POINT of the mandate system is to funnel the money from the young and the poor to them. They aren't stupid, they know that near-poverty family with no money left over at the end of the month wont be able to use the insurance they are paying for. They're not stupid.

They want that money for themselves. They want their policy to be cheaper or even possible. They're the folks buying the gold and platinum plans with no deductibles and minimumal co-pays. Bronze and Tin grade policies are for the suckers who are FORCED to buy them or pay a massive fine.

[KG]

57. +infinity.

[Warpy]

53. I think the first thing that will change

is those ridiculous deductibles.

And I'm aware that upper income people covered by company plans are seeing a large increase. However, unless their company withdraws their plan, there won't be any increase or any change at all, save the removal of that lifetime limit.

[Fumesucker]

56. The deductibles are there for a reason

Going to the doctor's office and getting medical procedures done is so much fun that poor people would be flooding the system if there were not some mechanism for keeping them away except for dire emergencies.

The deductibles are the ~last~ thing that will change.

[Warpy]

65. They're there becaue the whole thing was written by Heritage Foundation wonks

who are overpaid enough that $7500 a year out of pocket is chump change. Insurance companies love it.

The policies are major medical policies at the low end. If working people have managed to scrape together down payments and mortgage money, they won't lose their houses over a serious illness. However, it's not medical insurance until those deductibles are gone.

They will be unpopular enough that they'll be the first to go. Congressmen might be paid as well as Heritage Foundation wonks but they still need to whore for votes every two years.

[Fumesucker]

68. Unpopular with who?

Not with anyone who is likely to come in contact with a Congressman for more than moments at a campaign rally or similar event. Congressmen simply don't hobnob with the social class this is going to blindside.

[99Forever]

58. There sure is a kneejerk reaction to ANY....

... criticism of ANYTHING Obama related, no matter how well intended, how honestly expressed, or how said topics actually hurt or affect those raising them, by a certain element on this forum.

Group think is alive and well, and not just in the Teapublican Party. This is but one example proving that.

There clearly ARE problems with the ACA and there WERE promises made that problems WOULD be addressed when it was implemented, but it seems there are those in the Democratic Party and on this website, that exactly like their partisan counterpart on the other side of the aisle, CHOOSE to see things through a cognitive dissonance lens.

[JaneyVee]

59. Raise the poverty level percentage, more people get subsidies.

[last1standing]

62. That would certainly help.

From what I've seen so far, the subsidies are being cut off too low so that some people with moderate incomes will be hit with very high bills they can't afford.

As a test, I went to the calculator punched in the numbers for a single male, under 49, non-smoker, making $20k per year. While there would have been subsidies, the cost would have still been over $100/month for the silver plan (the bronze plan would have been much less but not worth taking since co-pays and out of pocket are insane). So a guy making $20k per year has to pay around 6% of his gross income for health care. This isn't an insane amount in itself but to suddenly be hit with a bill that large when you're likely having trouble paying for your basic necessities isn't good.

After taxes that guy is probably bringing home around $1300/month. If food costs $200, gas/car insurance is $300, rent another $500, and utilities/water another $100, this leaves him with about $200/month left over to cover everything that life throws at him such as car repairs, cleaning supplies, hair cuts, birthday gifts, dates, etc... $200 isn't a lot to cover all that and if half of that is suddenly taken away it could mean the difference between making it through the month and not.

I'm very glad that a majority of those who need ACA are finding that it works to their advantage, and even in my hypothetical the cost would be far less than otherwise, but when the program becomes a liability to the poor (and a single person making $20k is poor in my opinion) it needs to be fixed.

[Cal Carpenter]

63. For many people it is the deductibles and coinsurance that add up to *not* affordable health care

The premiums are just one piece of the costs. For people who need more than annual checkups and basic care, the additional out of pocket costs are the killer. A chronic health problem that requires specialists and testing, or an accident or hospitalization - that is where thousands of dollars can rack up.

The total out of pocket annual limits save people from facing hundreds of thousands of dollars of bills, but for a lot of people that $10,000 may as well be $100,000.

[kiva]

64. Exactly this.

There are a lot of things about the ACA that can be/need to be improved, and it's foolish to believe that if we ignore them they will magically be fixed - if we pretend that the ACA is perfect as is, then those changes will never be made.

Anyone who believes that acknowledging the ACA has some problems will provide aid and comfort to the other side needs to do a reality check and live in the real world, not the world of politics where everything is about loving or hating the administration, and not about people.

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. K&R!

[B Calm]

67. K&R A lot of improvements have been made to social security after it was passed!

The same will be for ACA too!