There is a major difference between judging or giving your opinion re: externalities

[Uncle Joe]

and judging a person because of said externality.

Don't confuse the two.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Art, style and fashion are constantly evolving, life would be boring if it didn't.

[Ohio Joe]

1. Very true

A given persons like or dis-like of a given art form does not in and of itself make the item an art form or not. It is what it is, like it or not

[riderinthestorm]

2. +100000. There are a whole slew of DUers who don't seem to get that nt

[liberal_at_heart]

3. It's one thing to say eh, it's not my style but to each his own. It's another to say Oh, my god

that is disgusting. Those people are irresponsible and have bad judgment and I don't trust them. I'd like to say DU is above that kind of behavior but obviously it's not.

[Uncle Joe]

4. D.U. is a vast community, don't paint with too broad a brush.

Peace to you, liberal_at_heart.

[liberal_at_heart]

6. It's just surprising to see. Liberal just isn't what it used to be. I know there are some very nice,

non judgmental people on DU. I just can't believe how many people act like that and call themselves liberal.

[Uncle Joe]

7. People can call themselves whatever they want, the only thing that matters

are their words and actions

Some people may actually believe that they are liberal and to a large degree that's relative to their surroundings and perception of political life, they may in fact be liberal for their geographic area.

Of course some posters or trolls coming here to disrupt will adopt it as part of their handle to confuse the perception of the D.U. community.

In the case of the latter a poster's prejudice should be confronted, exposed and/or debated but I wouldn't condemn or judge the community nor a political ideology based on some individual posters' narrow mindedness; (that may not be a word but I'm using it anyway.)

I mentioned in the OP that Art, fashion and style evolve over time, there is no doubt the same can be said for people.

[RainDog]

5. I never even looked at that thread

before I trashed it.

I don't give a shit how people want to adorn themselves. I thought tattoos were passé a decade ago - but I was wrong. or not, since they're so ubiquitous now.

who cares.

[Uncle Joe]

8. I responded to one thread simply asking my opinion of tatoos and that's all it was, my opinion.

I feel the same way as you in regards to a person's freedom of choice as to whether they want a tatoo or not, it doesn't really make any difference to me in regards to judging someone based on that externality.

It's the character of the individual that counts.

[we can do it]

9. I don't think saying you like or dislike a style or fad is judging.

Assuming things about a person because of their appearance is.

No one likes every style. We are all different. Everyone has preferences.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Precisely. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

13. A correction to my earlier "Precisely" post, judging is the same as having an opinion.

I misread your first sentence.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judging?s=t

8. to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically: You can't judge a book by its cover.
9. to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale.
10. to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess: He judged her to be correct.

[we can do it]

19. I consider "judging" to be finding fault or merit with something. Not liking or disliking.

It would suck to be in court with a judge who ruled by opinion, not fact.

[Uncle Joe]

20. You find fault or merit when you cross the street, look at a piece of art or decide to cook

a piece of meat or throw it in the trash.

As I posted downthread, there are negative connotations to judging ie; judge not lest ye be judged" but that shouldn't take away from the neutral, life essential elements of the word.

Opinion is formed by judging they're inseperable, and judging whether you like a tatoo, piece of art, style of music, or fashion of the day doesn't require you to be a judge in a court of law.

[pscot]

10. Where we don't seem to be evolving

is as a species.

[Uncle Joe]

12. I believe we're evolving on that level as well, biologically and socially.

The question is will we evolve fast enough to keep pace with our increased technological power and ever decreasing area of livable environment?

[MNBrewer]

14. Or "what turns you on is what turns you on because what turns you on is what turns you on"

no need to judge, just notice it and move on.

[Uncle Joe]

15. Everybody judges, judging is just a natural part of forming an opinion about anything.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judging?s=t

8. to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically: You can't judge a book by its cover.
9. to decide or settle authoritatively; adjudge: The censor judged the book obscene and forbade its sale.
10. to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess: He judged her to be correct.

Without judging there is no thinking.

There are no doubt negative connotations of the word, "judge not lest ye be judged" but that shouldn't take away from the natural, neutral, life essential aspects of it.

When you cross the street, you're judging, if you look at a piece art, you're judging, when you decide whether to cook a piece of meat or throw it in the trash, you're judging.

[MNBrewer]

16. OK, point taken

Judge. It doesn't really mean anything. Move on.

[Uncle Joe]

17. The only point of this thread was to alleviate stung feelings of some members here at D.U.

over other posters' opinions regarding tatoos.

If it has been successful in that regard I'm ready to move on.

Peace to you, MNBrewer.

[kentuck]

24. I think it shows that ...

we are all judgmental or prejudiced in some manner or other - about some subject or other. I had no idea the firestorm that would be created over such a trivial matter. But it's like there are ideas and prejudices just below the surface of our conscience and some have not yet come to terms with them. Just my opinion.

[Rex]

18. Yes and some here seem to not know there is a difference.

Even seem to start entire threads over it. A furfluffle if there ever was one!

We can just call it Wrinkle/Tattoo Gate.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Emotions can easily over rule logic and no one is immune. n/t

[Rex]

22. True, it is the MO of the GOP!

It is a very common occurrence, to be sure.

[Uncle Joe]

23. The Republicans use it to perfection, they know the right emotional chains to yank, fear, envy,

hate, suspicion, greed, jealousy etc. etc.

Divide and conquer is their natural modus operandi.

[JackRiddler]

25. Absolutely, but you mean exteriors.

Better: appearances.

Externalities are things actually not [part of the person. Commonly used in economics for costs that go unaccounted because they've been passed to others, the commons, or the public sector.

[Uncle Joe]

26. The economic version is one definition, but it's not the only one.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/externalities?s=t

1. the state or quality of being external.
2. something external; an outward feature.

Peace to you, JackRiddler.

[uppityperson]

27. "I am not a fan of" vs "if you have...you are an awful person"

"I like something" vs "only people with something are worthwhile"

[Uncle Joe]

28. I agree, that's what I'm speaking of. n/t

[Butterbean]

29. Agreed. Nor am I a fan of

"if you don't like what I like, you aren't a fun/smart/valuable person." I see that a lot, people dismissing someone outright because they don't share likes or dislikes.

It's called variety, and it's the spice of life. What works for you might not work for me, and THAT'S OKAY. I don't want a tattoo and I don't want my earlobes stretched. I don't think people who have that stuff are satan incarnate or any less valuable as people, nor do I think they're stupid. I also am not sitting on my rocking chair on my porch, yelling at people to get off my lawn. I like to paint my nails and have a rather large polish collection. Some people think that's frivolous and shallow. Meh. Whatever. I'm not going to get my knickers in a knot because someone doesn't agree with my idea of beautiful.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. Is Your Volkswagen a Sex Symbol?

That was the title of a 1972 book about how the things we choose the have, and wear, project an image of us. We choose that image because we want to make a statement to the world about ourselves. Most people accurately understand the messages that we are sending, and we usually understand the cultural non-verbal messages that others send.

With those messages the messenger and the message are one and the same. If I don't like the message, I won't like the messenger.

I definately reject his message and him. That's probably OK with him as he expects to be rejected excpt by those like him.

[Uncle Joe]

31. Personally, I think that's overkill but if he's happy with it, more power to him.

I never believed in killing the messenger even if I didn't agree with the message.

That pic begs the question. what is his message?

Rebellion, inner pain, is he tough, sensitive or both?

[GreenStormCloud]

32. Definately, it is his freedom. I will not deny him that.

But he won't be in my circle of friends.

[Uncle Joe]

33. I don't have any problem being his friend subject to his character. n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

34. He is advertising his character.

Hostility, rejection of societal norms, possible violence. He wants all the normal people who see him to be shocked.

[Uncle Joe]

36. Hostility toward what and whom?

What societal norms is he rejecting?

To be civilized is to be potentially master of all possible ideas, and that means that one has got beyond being shocked, although one preserves one's own moral aesthetic preferences.

Oliver Wendell Holmes

[GreenStormCloud]

35. What about this guy?

These are prison tattoos. Some are white supremacists. Notice the swastikas. He is strongly advertising his character.

I think almost all of us would exclude him from our friend circle.

[Uncle Joe]

37. His message is a more clear indication of his character

But his character is still the root, not the tatoos and that's what I would base my opinion on.

[JackRiddler]

38. Well, that's clearly a choice.

Assuming there's a mind in there in the first place.

Thanks for the ICK!