127 pound girl-athlete given a "fat letter" to take home from school.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Wed Oct 9, 2013, 07:02 PM - Edit history (5)

How nuts is this? Muscle weighs more than fat and no one looking at this very fit 6th grader -- who's a star on two different sports teams-- could possibly think she's "at risk" for a weight problem.

Are we trying to turn all girls into anorexics and bulimics now? And how dare this school send their letters home via the students instead of privately to the parents?

http://www.today.com/video/today/53216292/#53216292

According to the standard height/weight charts, this girl is still in the "ideal weight" category for her height -- and this doesn't even account for the fact that, as an athlete, she probably has a lower than average fat percentage.

http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1108048103230.html

Why teens develop eating disorders

The exact cause of eating disorders — such as anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa and binge-eating disorder — is unknown. However, various factors might put teens at risk of developing eating disorders.

For example:

Societal pressure. Modern Western culture tends to place a premium on being physically attractive and having a slim body. Even with a normal body weight, teens can easily develop the perception that they're fat. This can trigger an obsession with losing weight, dieting and being thin — especially for teen girls.

Low self-esteem. Teens who have low self-esteem might use their eating habits or weight loss to achieve a sense of stability or control.

Favorite activities. Participation in activities that value leanness — such as wrestling, running and ballet — can increase the risk of teen eating disorders.

Personal factors. Genetics or biological factors might make some teens more likely to develop eating disorders. Personality traits such as perfectionism, anxiety or rigidity might also play a role.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teen-eating-disorders/my01156

THESE ARE THE KINDS OF IMAGES SOCIETY IS AIMING AT OUR GIRLS:

http://www.businesspundit.com/15-dumbest-fashion-ad-photoshop-fails/?img=43294


Some interesting statistics

http://www.state.sc.us/dmh/anorexia/statistics.htm

A study by the National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders reported that 5 – 10% of anorexics die within 10 years after contracting the disease; 18-20% of anorexics will be dead after 20 years and only 30 – 40% ever fully recover

The mortality rate associated with anorexia nervosa is 12 times higher than the death rate of ALL causes of death for females 15 – 24 years old.

20% of people suffering from anorexia will prematurely die from complications related to their eating disorder, including suicide and heart problems

Treatment of an eating disorder in the US ranges from $500 per day to $2,000 per day. The average cost for a month of inpatient treatment is $30,000. It is estimated that individuals with eating disorders need anywhere from 3 – 6 months of inpatient care. Health insurance companies for several reasons do not typically cover the cost of treating eating disorders
•
The cost of outpatient treatment, including therapy and medical monitoring, can extend to $100,000 or more

Anorexia is the 3rd most common chronic illness among adolescents

95% of those who have eating disorders are between the ages of 12 and 25

50% of girls between the ages of 11 and 13 see themselves as overweight

80% of 13-year-olds have attempted to lose weight

[NoOneMan]

1. So what?

Parents need to stop taking themselves so seriously and laugh it off instead of bitchin to the media. For every 1 mistake, there are probably 100 kids facing early onset diabetes or heart problems these letters could potentially help.

Maybe they just need to refine their screening criteria

[pnwmom]

3. So what? One of our extended family members died as a teen, from bulimia.

Weight disorders are a terrible problem for millions of girls.

This mother did a favor to all the girls in the district by going public. Those letters should NOT be going home with the kids.

[markpkessinger]

20. Absolutely!

This is no joke. I remember an incident when I was a student at SUNY Purchase. The school had a large dance division. The dance department brought in a new Dean, who thought it would be a great idea to post, from week to week, the names of dancers who appeared to be gaining weight, on the department's bulletin board! The Dean of Students, understandably, went positively ballistic, because her office was already dealing with numerous cases of students with eating disorders, especially in the dance department! The policy was shortly thereafter rescinded.

[pnwmom]

24. What a horror. Yes, dancers are particularly at risk.

Dancers and gymnasts.

But up till now, star volley ball players like this girl were left alone. Geez.

[redqueen]

25. Some of these responses are...

[pnwmom]

38. Yeah, really.

Amazingly ignorant or unfeeling.

[NoOneMan]

41. Yeah, but against Americas number one killer on the opposite fence, hm

Maybe you have a better idea for how to clue young familes in. Then send it in. Otherwise, its your pet cause vs theirs

[pnwmom]

47. How about the U.S. mail? Remember that? That's the better way to clue parents in.

Or even through the parents' email. But not in a letter handed to the kids.

And if the district is going to do these calculations, they should be including body fat into the measurements so that star athletes like this girl don't get the false message that there's something wrong with them.

[NoOneMan]

50. Yeah, I agree with that.

[Scootaloo]

160. Except obesity isn't even In this picture.

We're talking about a girl of normal weight for her age and body - probably less fat than other girls in fact - being told she's fat. it's not that she IS overweight, not by a long shot.

[NoOneMan]

172. Doh!

Do you think she was the one person who fell outside the norm on the BMI charts and got a letter? Or was she rather just a fine exception illustrating the BMI charts are insufficient at this sort of thing? Think about it. Take a walk through a young school today. Checkout:

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htm

Obesity is in the picture. Just not hers. She was a false flag using an indicator system that is flawed. We all get that. While acknowledging that, I still don't think its a bad idea for schools (or someone) to reach out to families using a reasonable metric when they determine children have unhealthy and/or dangerous habits. The true test though is finding a way to address these families to produce positive outcomes effectively

But in her case, she is a blatant exception and false flag. As a parent, I would of laughed about it, explained the shitty system and moved on. No one is arguing that this specific girl is obese at all (that notion is a joke--not worth taking seriously).

Here she is being used as an example to shut down an entire program (that may also have benefits) due to some hypothetical harm it specifically caused her (especially if her parents played it up rather than laughed it off), when she is clearly an exception. Got stupid? Frankly if one were really concerned about the merits of this system, then its really irrelevant what her specific situation is

[Scootaloo]

177. Or maybe the parents could do exactly what is done here

In order to expose the ludicrousness of the problem.

Instead, you take them to task for speaking up and frankly, you DO sound as if you are arguing that the child is obese. And a good point is made in the video - nobody is surprised to "learn" that they are overweight.

We can agree that this is a case of bureaucracy leaving its brain unplugged, applying a one-size-fits-all system when any medical professional could easily point out "uh, no it doesn't." But you're coming off as hostile to the family.

[NoOneMan]

181. " you DO sound as if you are arguing that the child is obese"

Yeah, words like "false flag" and "exception" certainly seem that way.

No. That's not what Im saying one bit

[pnwmom]

190. Her parents are asking the school to stop sending the letters

home with the kids. Do you have a problem with them using email or snailmail instead?

[Mariana]

35. Eating disorders are often fatal. That's what.

[NoOneMan]

42. As is eating too much

For the love of God, this letter didn't induce a disorder. Its aimed at stopping them. Maybe its not a good method. Maybe it makes mistakes. Maybe. I guess we don't get to hear from outraged parents that cleaned their kids diets up

I guess there is only 1 side to the story...the imaginary disorder this might of caused instead of the people it might of saved

[pnwmom]

51. How do you know that the letter wasn't a trigger for one of the other

hundreds of girls in the district who got one? Knowing how susceptible pre-teens and teens are to eating disorders?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/teen-eating-disorders/my01156

Why teens develop eating disorders

The exact cause of eating disorders — such as anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa and binge-eating disorder — is unknown. However, various factors might put teens at risk of developing eating disorders.

For example:

Societal pressure. Modern Western culture tends to place a premium on being physically attractive and having a slim body. Even with a normal body weight, teens can easily develop the perception that they're fat. This can trigger an obsession with losing weight, dieting and being thin — especially for teen girls.

Low self-esteem. Teens who have low self-esteem might use their eating habits or weight loss to achieve a sense of stability or control.

Favorite activities. Participation in activities that value leanness — such as wrestling, running and ballet — can increase the risk of teen eating disorders.

Personal factors. Genetics or biological factors might make some teens more likely to develop eating disorders. Personality traits such as perfectionism, anxiety or rigidity might also play a role.

[NoOneMan]

53. Well oh boy we can make any shit up

Maybe it created a mini-hitler in the future

[pnwmom]

54. Right. Anorexia and bulimia are just made-up problems.

Who cares about the girls who die from them every year?

[pnwmom]

60. I'm not. I'm saying that you can't prove the opposite.

And as long as any girls could be harmed by these letters, they should be sent directly to the parents, not via the kids.

[NoOneMan]

66. You can't prove pink unicorns don't fly

But its just a stupid cornerstone of an argument. Good day

[Sheldon Cooper]

127. Nasty.

[HockeyMom]

58. I am 5'1 and 100 lbs.

At 18 I was 95 lbs. I am 65 years old. NOT DEAD yet. Blame my parents, grandparents for my GENES.

[pnwmom]

64. My elderly mother is tiny now. But she weighed more when she was stronger.

It saddens me to see that she is actually proud of how extremely thin she is now. Even at her age, she feels the pressure.

[HockeyMom]

106. I weighed 98 lbs at 30 when I got pg with my first daughter

I have never weighed more than 127 lbs (9 months pg) in my life. My grams was under 5' and weighed 85 lbs. The most my Dad ever weighed at 5'8" was 140 lbs. There are people who are genetically small and DON'T get overweight.

[RKP5637]

157. I need to lose some weight, packed on about 25 pounds extra during a

recent large house move, downsizing.

[jeff47]

59. Actually, yes it does.

For the love of God, this letter didn't induce a disorder

How, exactly, do you think they start?

They start with stupid letters like this. Which are defended by saying "We're just trying to fight against obesity!" by being about as stupid as possible about the issue of obesity.

Here's a hint: Parent's are not fucking stupid, despite your belief that they are.

Parents are well aware when their kid is "fat". They don't need shit science such as BMI being used to label their kids (Tip: The people who live longest are "Overweight" according to BMI. Kinda indicates it's a monumentally stupid way to solve the problems you say you want to solve.).

So this letter does exactly zero good, while potentially doing great harm.

[NoOneMan]

69. So this athlete specifically has an eating disorder from this letter now?

Yes, no, or blarg?

[jeff47]

74. So....can't handle basic probability then?

This letter makes eating disorders more likely, and will not make parents of truly "fat" kids put them on a diet.

Can you not handle a sentence that simple, or are you just playing dumb to avoid confronting the flaws in your argument?

[NoOneMan]

76. I can't handle making shit up so you can get outraged about it a hypothetical that isn't reality

You people are making her parents look reasonable, who should of explained the failures of BMI to their child and laughed the damn thing off.

[jeff47]

80. So you really can't handle basic probability then.

Again:

Chance of letter leading to eating disorder: >0.

Chance of letter leading to fat kid getting put on a diet: 0.

You: But....but.....they should ignore that the school did something that can only harm the kids!

[NoOneMan]

83. "Chance of letter leading to fat kid getting put on a diet: 0."

Got some stats to prove that?

Im going to just pretend this letter saved thousands from heart disease and early onset diabetes, now we are all just making shit up. Hurray. Bummer about the eating disorder and all, but hell, it really did some major good in my magic pretend fairy world.

[jeff47]

87. Yes.

But that would require you to think parents aren't utter and complete morons. Which is apparently not the case.

Im going to just pretend this letter saved thousands from heart disease and early onset diabetes, now we are all just making shit up

Because a program that just started has reversed health effects that will appear more than a decade from now.

I know. Saying "I was wrong" is hard. But desperately flailing about to avoid doing so really isn't a solution. If you'd like an example a tad less personal, consider our current House speaker's antics over the last two days.

[NoOneMan]

89. I was wrong in pretending differently than you and using different pretend statistics

Oh my. My ego is flattened. Im going to go make up something now to be outraged about

[jeff47]

93. I'm sure digging downwards will get you out of that hole real soon now. (nt)

[NoOneMan]

95. But pretending you are winning a pretend argument wont

Good luck to you on that. May the outrage be with you

[moriah]

128. The point the parents made was to MAIL the letters, not send them home with the kids.

Now, sure, I was a nosy enough of a little brat that I always checked the mail, and if I saw something from the school I would have opened it before my parents got home. But it'd be at least *trying* to make it a little more discreet.

How are the letters getting into the kids hands? Unless every kid was handed a letter saying whether they were "at risk" or not, which I hope was the case, they were singled out in school, too. If only "fat kids" got a letter, the other kids who saw would lump everyone who got the letter in that category.

[pnwmom]

82. Her parents very reasonably are trying to get the school district

to stop sending the letters home with kids. And when they didn't succeed, they went public. Good for them.

[cui bono]

150. You might want to do a little investigation into eating disorders.

A long time ago you could search for "my friend Ana" or "my friend Mia" and find tons of sites of girls with eating disorders. I heard about it when they were shutting them down. Ana and Mia were code names for anorexia and bulimia. The stories and pictures you would see there would break your heart. Ten year old girls eating paper to fill themselves up so they wouldn't eat real food to get fat on. Pictures of girls with their skeletons showing, yes, literally showing, because that was the goal, to be able to see each rib to see they were skinny enough.

It all comes from low self-esteem and self-image issues. No matter how skinny those girls were/got they always saw too much fat on their bodies when they looked in the mirror. It's not rational.

You don't know how this girl or any other girl who sees a letter like this already feels about themselves. You don't know if this letter will push them over the edge. But I'm pretty sure I know that that letter isn't going to help that girl in any way from her having seen it. It's insensitive at best, gravely harmful at worst.

[NoOneMan]

152. Oh brother. Get over yourself

Its getting boring already. If this specific letter causes an eating disorder in this specific girl, at this point, its no ones fault but the parents alone for validating the piece of shit metric.

But it didn't. So there is nothing to pretend outrage about. You are mad about what could of happened. You aren't happy about what hypothetical good it could of made. You are just choosing what to scream about and pouting like a child, while pretending you have secret knowledge that makes you high and mighty. Fuckn boring

[cui bono]

155. I'm not screaming. And I'm being realistic about a very real problem.

I just hope you don't have, or don't plan to have a daughter.

[NoOneMan]

158. And Im being realistic about a problem with today's youth facing early onset diabetes

And other health issues. I don't know the silver bullet to fix what is fucked up at home. At least some people are flailing blindly.

I do have a daughter. Im not going to sweat. She will know she is beautiful from our reinforcement as parents. If she gets a stupid letter we will have a laugh, toss it in the trash, and move fucking on

[cui bono]

162. So what's your issue with the letter being sent by some method other than the student?

[NoOneMan]

165. Nothing

[pnwmom]

191. Unfortunately, it's still easy to find sites like those online,

and millions of girls are still at risk.

[moriah]

122. So this particular cigarette smoker has cancer from that cigarette now? n/t

[NotThisTime]

238. My athletic teen has a slightly lower BMI than the girl in question she also has body image issues

she's battled for four years. We finally got her to a point to accept her body as an athlete over the summer, we thought things were looking up, less than a week ago a peer leader said 3 words to her, she's been crying ever since and is now dieting again. She was dieting when she was a double zero, now imagine if she got a letter actually sent to the house, she'd be in the hospital over it, as it is we are trying to deal the best we can with the aftermath. She has good friends trying to help her but in her mind she doesn't see what everyone else see's. She is also a star athlete on two different teams.

These letters serve no purpose, kids who are fat don't need a reminder they are fat and you don't need to be sending this letter to girls who may already have body image issues, the cost is too high.

[pnwmom]

239. The vast majority of teen girls have dieted, whether or not they're overweight.

I'm sorry your daughter is one of the ones who's struggling with this.

I look at pictures of myself in high school and can hardly believe how thin I was. I never felt thin because of the number on the scale -- the fact that I was half a foot taller than most of the other girls didn't really matter somehow. If I had gotten a letter like the one in the OP I would have been devastated.

[NotThisTime]

240. Thank you....

We just thought after four years she had been able to get this under control but those 3 were were uttered (she's a size 2/4 now) and now she's crying every night (after her games of course) and not eating.... she talked with someone today and we'll see if this is going to continue on, lessen or get better or worse.

Eating disorders suck, they never go away, I am just now convinced this will always follow her to some degree and as her parent I am afraid for her and I can't stop the way she is thinking. It's all I thought about the last few days and then this news comes out, ironically I sent her the link with the girl. It didn't sink in, she couldn't believe the school would do that, THAT girl is not fat, she didn't put the pieces together that she is so close to that girl she looks the same way.... I feel sorry for all these girls and all their parents dealing with this....

[pnwmom]

75. It's nice to read the posts here from men who get it.

If you happen to have a daughter, she's lucky.

[jeff47]

77. She's 2. They're already trying to label her via BMI.

She was born 97% percentile height, 95% weight. She's still that large. But divide one by the other, and the number is higher than her doctors want.

[pnwmom]

81. That sounds well-proportioned to me.

She's taller than 97% and weighs more than 95%. She's just scaled up, as my daughter likes to say. Her one year old has similar proportions, and her hands and feet are HUGE. The only problem: a month ago we had trouble finding shoes big enough for her soft baby feet. Most shoes in her size are for older kids' feet.

[moriah]

120. Compulsive overeating is an eating disorder as well.

And it's not uncommon at all for teens who were chubby as children, possibly emotionally eating already, to "switch gears" to another eating disorder when they become self-conscious about their bodies.

We should be trying to promote healthy eating and a healthy relationship with food, not encouraging unhealthy fixations.

[HockeyMom]

55. Except if you worked for THIS school district,

and didn't meet their standards, YOUR health insurance would double. I worked at Collier. They told a woman with a 25 inch waist and 32 inch hips she was APPLE SHAPED, and a health risk. This school disrict, Rick Scott's hometown, has a agenda. Health Care is BIG BUSINESS here.

[pnwmom]

73. Oh, wow. So it's going the way of drug testing -- test everyone,

make lots of money. If there's a way to make a profit off of it . . . .

[HockeyMom]

104. You got it

[trumad]

91. Douchebag post of the month.

[NoOneMan]

94. Posts such as this can cause internet linked suicides

They are real. We aren't making them up. This is shameful behavior to call someone a name on the internet in a bullying manner. Shameful. Its a real thing! It happened. You killed someone!

[trumad]

100. 2nd Douchebag post of the month.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

132. Well, fuck. He hasn't responded to your second post. You suicided him.

Thanks, trumad. Thanks, Obama.

[trumad]

141. If I killed myself for someone calling me a douchebag on the internets...

I'd look like Swiss Cheese

[DisgustipatedinCA]

145. I gave him big points for style.

He attacked the OP and pretty much everyone who replied above this line, then he warned you about being mean to people. Now he's off somewhere else, no doubt making a park ranger apologize for the sinking of The Maine.

[NoOneMan]

154. Hey, its all about probability. Girls starve themselves over school letters about their BMI

So hey, it can happen! Or I can pretend it can happen.


I didn't respond because I was out getting fresh air, instead of pouting about some fuckn school I never went to that did something that might of hurt someone's feelings provided their dumbass parents didn't handle it properly. Fuck that.

[lunasun]

184. you seem more like a nowhere man dude,,,,,,,,,,,,

[WinkyDink]

121. Maybe schools need to butt out.

[NoOneMan]

149. They tried that. Kids got fat. America got fat. America got sick. People died. Cost a fortune

Its actually really nice to see a school, while misguided in their approach, get involved with educating children and parents about health issues like this.

[pnwmom]

234. This is a STUPID way to get involved in issues like this.

What they should be doing is adding recess time and PE time, rather than taking them away. The schools are as responsible as anyone for kids lack of time for exercise these days.

This particular school district provides "academic makeup time during recess." So the kids who need help academically miss out on exercise, too. Great.

http://www.loe.collierschools.com/docs/2013-2014LOEHandbook.pdf

[cui bono]

148. So what? They might have just put an idea in that girl's head that she is too fat

and might have led her to have an eating disorder. It might have been the letter that pushed her over the brink.

It's self image/self esteem issues that cause girls to have these eating disorders, to see a letter like that can be devastating to a 6th grader.

[NoOneMan]

151. Yeah, it might have directly led to the 4th reich! Oh nooes

Any girl just needs to open up any fashion or pop culture magazine to get the idea that she's too fat. Seriously. This stuff starts at home, far before the 6th grade. This set of parents reaction is just strange consider her exceptional circumstances (which is a good example of why BMI isn't a great indicator compared to fitness and body fat measurments). The parents should instead celebrate her exceptional situation and blow this thing off as a result of using bad methods. Screaming bloody murder only validates it as important to outliers who have no real physical issues

[cui bono]

153. I agree with your fashion/pop magazine comment.

And that's exactly why it's so important not to add to that. Even if she's an athlete, she might have body issues. What a girl with an eating disorder sees when she looks in a mirror is not what we see. She could have her ribs showing and she'll still think she's too fat. Why do anything that could possibly contribute to something like that?

You seem to be getting really worked up over this. I don't get it.

[NoOneMan]

163. Worked up? This is hilarious

Im still in "so what" mode.

But yeah, I do get sending with kids wasn't a great idea. But its refreshing to see some involvement

[quinnox]

2. We have to face it, we are a bunch of fat asses in this country

No excuses. And I'm one of them. We need to stop shoveling food into our kids and ourselves, and get healthier as a nation.

[pnwmom]

4. That girl isn't a "fat ass" -- she's an athlete. The fat asses

are the adults who make these idiotic decisions, and the adults who excuse them.

[cali]

6. this girl isn't. not even a tiny little bit.

[IdaBriggs]

9. Except *she* isn't - she is an athlete, and they put her height in wrong.

It was incompetence, with the bonus of the whole "ruin her life" thing if she had actually listened to them.

[LadyHawkAZ]

10. Photos show a distinct lack of fat ass:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/23631008/naples-mom-upset-over-fat-letter#.UlReShBv6Sr

[quinnox]

13. Fine. I'm talking in general

That girl is not fat.

[pnwmom]

17. Thanks! n/t

[DinahMoeHum]

34. If she was in high school, and if I were a college recruiter. . .

. . .I'd be begging for her to come to my school on scholarship. Athletic AND academic (odds are, she's also a smart cookie)

And if she becomes an "all-American", odds are she'll represent Team USA in worlds and Olympics in the future.

Fuck those "fat-letter" fetishists.

[pnwmom]

40. You can see her interview here.

She does seem like a smart cookie, with a very supportive mom.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/blogs/gone-viral/os-letter-calls-girl-overweight-florida-100613,0,3308760.post

[LanternWaste]

39. I'm tempted to label anyone who thinks she is fat as an "idiot".

I'm tempted to label anyone who thinks she is fat as an "idiot"... regardless of how they may re-frame themselves after being seen as one.

[HockeyMom]

133. Neither my coworker, nor I have fat ass

that is the reason we got hit from the school district. Apple shaped, they said and risk heart attack. Both of us are adults and mothers. You don't need fat ass to birth babies without a c-section. Pelvic BONES are better than butts.

[kestrel91316]

12. You truly have no clue. She is a perfectly normal, healthy, athletic weight.

She isn't the problem. People like you (you said it, I didn't) are the problem.

[quinnox]

15. see my post 13

I said she isn't fat.

[pnwmom]

18. But the first thing you did is say "we" shovel too much food into our children.

Which sounds like you were agreeing that this girl deserved that letter.

[markpkessinger]

26. And even in cases where there is a genuine weight issue . . .

. . . when dealing with kids of this girl's age (boys, too), how the issue is addressed is an extremely sensitive matter.

[pnwmom]

29. Absolutely. Any letter like this should have gone directly to the parents.

Even now, the school district doesn't seem to be apologizing. They're too busy trying to justify themselves.

[BainsBane]

28. I think it's probably a case of posting without reading

the article or watching the video.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. That girl is NOT a fat ass

she is an example of what the rest of us should be.

That's the problem

[NoOneMan]

200. So do you just not want her to get a letter or her AND "fat asses" too?

Either this issue is about her specifically or it isn't. Some people can't seem to figure it out.

Is a school outreach to parents for obesity wrong in every case, wrong in the way they reached out, wrong in how they made their determination, etc? So many people are hung up on this ridiculous example of a screw-up that they can't even consider the merits of the actual program and potential benefits if they were to abandon BMI in making assessments.

she is an example of what the rest of us should be

Some people are just never going to be that size or that athletic at that age no matter what they do. That's ok. Takes all kinds of bodies. Sometimes people win the gene lottery (though I have no idea of the specifics here)

[nadinbrzezinski]

203. The kid is not overweight by the BMI standard.

A letter should not have even been produced.

[RedCappedBandit]

236. Speak for yourself..

[derby378]

5. "Hey, FAT girl!"

What a way to dampen an athletic girl's spirits. If she doesn't have supermodel measurements, she doesn't belong on the "beautiful people" social track. Makes me sick.

[LittleBlue]

7. Ugh, the BMI

What a joke. You only need eyeballs to see that she isn't overweight.

Wonder how much psychological damage was done telling a healthy girl she's fat. They did the BMI at my school, and the poor kids who were rumored to have gotten a letter were mocked.

[NoOneMan]

44. Its sad they still use BMI. Undermines this stuff

[jeff47]

63. My favorite part about the stupidity that is BMI

Is that the people who live the longest are "overweight" according to BMI charts.

Almost like the "ideal" range was pulled out of someone's ass....which it turns out it was. They never bothered with any real science to figure out where "ideal" should be.

[Decaffeinated]

146. Its a terrible chart built and mass distributed for the lazy...

[BainsBane]

8. Their screenings are obviously flawed

If they are going to screen for weight, they need to have enough sense to determine if someone is muscular or has unhealthy weight. It's stupid as well as hurtful. Girls are bombarded with negative body messages. Here you have a healthy, active girl. She is doing what the truly overweight kids could benefit from. This whole thing is bound to cause more harm than good.

[IdaBriggs]

11. The article says they put her in as two inches shorter than she is. (nt)

[kestrel91316]

14. Even at 2" shorter she is WELL within the normal range.

[BainsBane]

23. Yet BMI doesn't distinguish fat from muscle

and categories many athletes as overweight.

[pnwmom]

27. On the BMI she's still inside the "ideal" category.

Even at 5 foot three and 127.

And, as you say, it doesn't distinguish fat from muscle.

[BainsBane]

30. huh. I don't know what the school was thinking then

Sounds like they really messed up.

[hfojvt]

16. I wonder if she is considered tall

she's in the 6th grade. In the 7th grade, I weighed 76 pounds in the 8th grade I weighed 92 pounds and in the 9th grade 118.

Of course, I am always described by the insulting adjective "skinny" and I think kids may be bigger than they used to be. I was the 2nd smallest kid in my 7th grade p.e. class, which was all boys.

Heck, I was about 130 pounds when I graduated from high school. So a 123 pound sixth grader does seem pretty big to me.

[cali]

19. I suggest you look at her picture. Not only is she NOT fat. she's slender

she's 5'5" and 123 lbs.

[pnwmom]

22. And even if she were 5 foot 3 and 127,

she'd still be in the "ideal" category for height/weight, according to the chart I added to the OP. And that doesn't account for her low body fat.

[Aerows]

97. Heck I'm 5'3" and weigh

about 105 and I could stand to put on a few pounds. When you can wear little girls clothes at 40, you aren't freaking fat. This little girl is FAR from fat, too.

[HockeyMom]

114. She isn't

I used to joke decades ago that if they kept makes sizes bigger (went from size 5 to size 3 to size 0 at the SAME WEIGHT), I would be shopping at the kids section and collecting my SS check. Not funny today. Weighed 100 lbs in 1974 at my wedding, and still do today. I have never in my entire 65 years weighed what charts or medical field say I should, but apparently that is normal and healthy for ME. We are not robots or clones on one another.

[pnwmom]

116. I had a friend in high school who was about your size

and, as I recall, she was pretty darn skinny.

Of course, most of us would have loved to be her size.

[hfojvt]

61. I looked at her picture, and she looked fine

but I am a 51 year old man. I don't have the same perspective as an 11 year old boy.

But I think I guessed right about the height because my mom's record has me at 4' 8" in the 6th grade.

But she also has me as 76 pounds in the 8th grade and 92 pounds in the 9th grade and I don't think that is right. I remember it being a year earlier as I was weighed in P.E. for wrestling. But it is written there in my school memories book.

[pnwmom]

79. I remember the boys like you. In 6th, I was 8 inches taller.

In eighth grade, I felt like a giant because I was 126 pounds and 69 inches at the very public screening in my gym class. (One other girl and I held the record for the heaviest. These are memories that just don't go away).

But a lot of the small boys had amazing growth spurts in high school.

[pnwmom]

21. She is tall for an 11 year old girl. And could easily be half a foot taller

than many of the boys in her class. When I was a tall 6th grade girl, there were many boys well under 5 feet.

Remember that girls develop two years earlier than boys and she's clearly on the way.

[HereSince1628]

31. I think I'd let the parents thank the school for their misplaced concern and then just ignore it.

She pretty clearly isn't obese.

I'd say that the parents could sue for emotional damage, but, I'm really not into cashing in on stupid mistakes that haven't yet turned into demonstable damage.

[randome]

32. That's the best response yet.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[pnwmom]

36. Why? The parents are doing other parents a favor by bringing this

to public awareness. The school district needs to change their policy and stop sending these letters home with the students -- assuming they should be doing this at all.

I don't think they should, since they're not including body fat in the calculation. The result for athletes like this girl (who is a star athlete practicing 6 days a week on two different teams) is worthless.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/blogs/gone-viral/os-letter-calls-girl-overweight-florida-100613,0,3308760.post

[redqueen]

43. There are some...

interesting priorities on display in this thread.

[pnwmom]

45. It's discouraging. I really didn't expect it. n/t

[randome]

46. First, it clearly was a mistake. Not a 'policy'.

Second, don't we hear often enough that being fat is nothing to be ashamed of?

I think the parents do the girl a disservice by taking it so seriously. Shrug it off and chalk up another one to bureaucratic blunders.

Although I completely agree that the girl should not have been given a letter and only the parents contacted. Policies can be revised without resorting to outrage.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[pnwmom]

48. No, it wasn't a mistake that the letters were sent home with the kids.

instead of mailed to the parents. They did that on purpose, and all they've done since is try to justify it. They should apologize and agree to refrain from doing so in the future.

And, no, we don't hear often enough that being fat is nothing to be ashamed of. That's why so many millions of young girls and women suffer from anorexia and bulimia. In fact, it's the opposite. Girls are being made to feel that a perfectly healthy size -- like this girl's -- is "at risk" or "overweight."

[randome]

49. No, the mistake was in classifying her as fat in the first place.

I agree about the letter being sent home with the student.

Sure, I know society makes people feel unnecessarily ashamed of themselves. But this sounds more like a stupid mix-up -other than the letter part- than some local school trying to make someone feel bad about herself.

That's why I don't see the 'outrage' part of it. The parents need to make a fuss about the letter and the school's poor record-keeping but that seems to me to be the extent of it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[HockeyMom]

56. Yes, it IS policy in Collier County

I worked for them.

[randome]

62. It's policy to mis-identify someone as 'fat'?

If so, then I take back what I said. But if not, the only policy I see as in need of review is giving a letter to the student instead of the parents.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[pnwmom]

84. That's the policy I was talking about -- giving the letter to the kids. n/t

[HockeyMom]

105. Collier County is looking for every way they can to identify

staff, and apparently now students, as fat. After tourism, health care is big for profit business in Naples, Fl.

[randome]

125. That puts a different spin on things.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[jeff47]

72. The only "mistake" the school has acknowledged is putting her in as 2" shorter.

The problem is even with that, she is still in the "ideal" BMI range. So the school hanging their hat on that mistake really doesn't excuse sending a letter.

So that's outrage #1.

Outrage #2 is BMI is incredibly stupid.

The people who live the longest are "overweight" according to BMI. It turns out nobody bothered doing any real science on BMI before drawing lines around "ideal".

In addition, it doesn't bother differentiating fat from muscle. So, it encourages starvation over exercise - exercise builds muscle which makes BMI worse. That leads to "thin" people getting the exact same diseases our obsession over BMI is supposed to prevent.

[randome]

96. So the parents need to set them straight.

I'm sure this isn't the only local school that has misguided notions about body weight. However, some people DO need someone to run up a warning flag for them when the parents fail to keep their kids healthy.

I don't have a problem with schools trying to help in this area. Sounds like they were woefully wrong in this instance but what's wrong with shrugging it off and telling the school they have it all wrong? It doesn't need to be some societal conspiracy as some paint it.

Michelle Obama is doing what she can to reduce child obesity. It's a worthy goal even when handled badly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[jeff47]

103. The problem with your argument is there are situations beyond what you assume.

My daughter's doctors are "concerned" about her BMI. She's 2. She's about the height and weight of a 4-year-old. But that doesn't fit nicely in their BMI chart, so they're "concerned" (2-year-olds are supposed to have a higher % body fat than 4-year-olds).

Poor parents: Overfeeding when times are good is protection against times going bad. Ketchup soup is much less of a problem when the kid has a little fat to withstand the "lean" week.

Kids who are strong: Falls off the BMI chart, despite the fact that they are what these schools should be aiming for.

Then there's the little problem where "ideal" BMI leads to a shorter lifespan. Why are we teaching kids to stay in the "ideal" range if that makes them die sooner? Doesn't that indicate a problem with this program?

some people DO need someone to run up a warning flag for them when the parents fail to keep their kids healthy.

Or perhaps parents aren't morons, and people on the outside don't know everything that is going on at home?

Michelle Obama is doing what she can to reduce child obesity. It's a worthy goal even when handled badly.

No, the side-effect is child obesity. The problem is child inactivity - lack of exercise. That's why the program is "Let's Move", not "Let's Diet".

BMI and it's fans are targeting a symptom instead of it's cause, and it's leading to a lot more unhealthy people - people either get too thin or they just give up and eat bag after bag of Doritos. Meanwhile, being "overweight" but exercising regularly turns out to avoid the problems in the "obesity crisis".

We chew out anti-science people when it comes to Creationism and a few other subjects. But when it comes to diet, weight and exercise, we cheer anti-science because we think it's too hard for people to understand out how to do it right. So "Low-fat diet" morphs to "Low-carb diet" instead of getting people off the couch and exercising along with some minor diet tweaks. We should stop that.

[randome]

124. Apparently is IS too hard for some, which is why child obesity is a problem.

I don't think anyone mentioned diet until now. But yeah, healthy eating is important. So is exercise.

BMI may not be perfect but until someone comes up with a better gauge, what's the solution? Let parents continue to let their kids slide into unhealthy habits?

We look to schools to provide sex education -most of us do- because parents can't be 'trusted' to do the right thing. Well, schools have a role to play in child obesity, too. The approach often needs to be refined but that's the way with every societal endeavor.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[jeff47]

182. Whoooosh

BMI may not be perfect but until someone comes up with a better gauge, what's the solution?

There are several better gauges. You can measure body fat with calipers, for example. But it takes more than 10 seconds per person, so it is not used.

Let parents continue to let their kids slide into unhealthy habits?

There are worse things than "unhealthy habits". You have the luxury of not having to be concerned with them.

[pnwmom]

185. They've already come up with a better solution: measuring body fat,

and there are several ways to do that. Even so, if a pre-teen girl has too low a body fat percentage, she's at risk for not getting her period and for osteoporosis in later life. For an athletic girl like this one, that might actually be a higher risk for her.

But in this girl's case, a simple eyeball test would tell any reasonable person that she is not "at risk" or "overweight." Common sense should outweigh questionable science. Just because something can be measured doesn't make it worth measuring.

[pnwmom]

183. Great post. This girl practices on two team sports 6 days a week.

No one can say she's out of shape.

I'm glad your daughter has a father like you.

[pnwmom]

139. They went to the school first and the school wouldn't change its practice.

I think the mother is setting a great example to her daughter about speaking up when a government entity is doing something wrong that could hurt people. And in this case, they did two things wrong. They subjected children to BMI measurements that are meaningless without measurements of body fat, and they sent the raw numbers home with the children, along with instructions to go to a website where they were informed they were overweight.

[randome]

179. You're right, there is something to be said for speaking one's mind.

And not 'shrugging it off', as I suggested, simply out of timidity.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[pnwmom]

33. They're not trying to cash in. They're trying to prevent other girls from being hurt.

This letter hurt their daughter, but she has very supportive parents who helped her get over it. Other girls could be triggered into eating disorders like bulimia and anorexia.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/blogs/gone-viral/os-letter-calls-girl-overweight-florida-100613,0,3308760.post

[Gravitycollapse]

52. Whoever devised this program should be immediately terminated.

And all schools who have sent out these letters should require that students be educated on body dysmorphia and the problem of social standards of beauty.

[pnwmom]

67. And maybe the school administrators should be publicly weighed and measured.

I remember how embarrassing it was for me when I was in 8th grade, and all of us had to get weighed and measured in gym class. Another girl and I were the heaviest of all the girls (probably in the whole class, remembering the boys).

I weighed 126 pounds. And, like the other girl, I was 69 inches tall.

[Ilsa]

65. The state needs to change and update the nurses'

screening criteria. In Texas, they don't screen for obesity, they screen for hyperinsulemia based on hyperpigmentation (acanthosis nigricans) on the back of the neck. If present, the child's blood pressure, height, and weight are taken to see if there is a physical outcome from the hyperinsulemia. The point is to predict who is at risk for developing diabetes because of this constellation of symptoms.

The non-normal results are reported to the child's pediatrician and the parents are encouraged to discuss the child's health with the doctor. The parents don't need to be told if their child is obese. They either know it or are in denial about it.

[pnwmom]

70. That screening makes much more sense. n/t

[XemaSab]

68. I don't think kids younger than high school age should be fat shamed at all

When I was 12 or so, I was kinda chubby. EVERYONE treated me like I was a massive lardass. Other kids in school, family members, and so forth.

I kept the "I am a massive lardass" mentality throughout high school and college.

I look at pictures of myself from high school and there was nothing wrong with me. I was like 5'7" and 130 in 10th grade. But I still had the "I am a massive lardass" thinking.

Hormones are a thing at that age, and some people grow out of it. If they don't, then it's time to intervene, but seriously, don't set the kids up for a lifetime of insecurity.

[pnwmom]

71. You're right. Even pre-teens on the chubby side (which this girl isn't)

are often on the verge of a 6 inch growth spurt. They shouldn't be trying to lose weight -- just get fit.

[Ilsa]

111. They shouldn't be fat-shamed, but they should

be evaluated for risk factors for diabetes and hypertension. The focus needs to be on hyperinsulimia, high blood pressure, and other effects of poor diet control or malnutrition.

Here's something Texas does right: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3809420

[HockeyMom]

78. Collier County School District is corrupt

I say that as a former employee (quit) who REUFSED to be weighed or MEASURED for their health insurance. That they have now taken this to their STUDENTS breaks my heart. If my kids went to school in this district (horror), I would REFUSE to let the school take their BMI.

This is the land of Rick Scott, Medicare FRAUD, and whose wife who is the "owner" of the largest health care tester in Florida.

As a 5'1, 100 lb. former employee with measurements of 34/26/34 do you think I had a hidden agenda????? Yeah, I dd. I don't like one size fits all, and CORRUPTION to make $$$$$,

[pnwmom]

86. Thanks for making the connection. I wasn't aware of a possible profit motive here.

I thought it was ordinary dumbness.

[TBF]

174. In this country there is always a profit motive - ALWAYS

you'd be shocked at what Texas is paying to Pearson for all the standardized testing. It's been going on about a decade and the figure is in the billions.

[Azathoth]

85. The hysterical handwringing over a "hurtful" letter is hilarious

According to the CDC, the girl's BMI indicates she is overweight for an 11-12 year old. BMI isn't the best indicator of healthy weight, especially for outliers like serious athletes, but it's a reasonable first-line screening metric. All the parents had to do was call their daughter's pediatrician to see what was up. Instead, they ran to the nearest news camera to complain about how hurt they felt. Can't wait for the eventual lawsuit for emotional damages

[pnwmom]

90. She is actually in the "ideal" category on the height/weight charts

even though the nurse made a mistake and she's at least 5 feet 4.

http://www.rush.edu/rumc/page-1108048103230.html

BMI is a lousy first line metric because it doesn't include fat content. The letter should never have been sent home with the kids. If the school had a concern, they should have mailed the letters directly to the parents. The reason the mother went public is because the school is stubbornly trying to justify their stupid policy of fat-shaming the kids.

We lost a young family member to bulimia as a teenager. It sickens me to read dismissive posts like yours. Letters like this could be extremely harmful in the hands of a vulnerable teen.

[Azathoth]

99. Actually, that's the wrong chart

http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/dnpabmi/Result.aspx?&dob=1/1/2002&dom=10/1/2013&age=141&ht=63&wt=127&gender=2&method=0&inchtext=0&wttext=0

The school district sent a dry form letter home with her that said her BMI indicated she was "at risk." It didn't even say "overweight." I don't think anyone even claimed the girl herself had actually read the letter. The only people who see this as a national news-worthy "fat-shaming" incident are the ones frantically looking for it.

And BMI is a perfectly valid metric, because, like most generic metrics, its predictive power is based on statistical distributions. On average, it will get more right than it gets wrong.

[LisaL]

164. At risk of what? Her BMI is in a normal range.

Why is she at risk? Why is school sending letters to a child with BMI in a normal range, claiming the child is at risk?

[Azathoth]

166. lol, did you even follow the link?

[LisaL]

167. I did follow the link.

Per NIH, BMI of 22.5 is in a normal range.

[Azathoth]

170. But apparently you didn't *read* the link

You're using the adult chart. There is a different chart for children.

[LisaL]

173. Oh great.

So the children are supposed to be anorexic in order to be normal?
If that child is overweight, I shudder to think what the normal child is supposed to be like.

[HockeyMom]

109. Private doctors don't count

As a former employee, I can tell you that one. They do not care what your private doctor says. THEIR health care staff has the last word.

[Azathoth]

110. Maybe I missed something

I understood the letter to be nothing more than an advisory notice to the parents. If that's the case, what's the problem? The family gives their pediatrician a call, he/she tells them to disregard the letter because their daughter is perfectly normal given her body type / athletic activity, and everybody goes on with their lives.

This isn't some insidious scheme by fat-shamers to turn children into bulimics. It's a weak but laudable attempt to address our skyrocketing obesity crisis by screening kids and alerting their parents before their weight gets out of control.

[pnwmom]

119. Why didn't they email or snail-mail the parents then?

Why did they put these letters in the kids' hands?

What was laudable about that?

[Azathoth]

129. There's no reason to keep it secret from her

She's old enough to get pregnant and petition a court for an abortion without her parents' consent, but God forbid she accidently discover her BMI? Come on. I mean, it's not like she could just go to the freakin' CDC homepage and look it up herself...

In any case, most reports and letters and permission slips are sent home with the kids. Hell, when I was in school, they occasionally even made us take disciplinary letters and detention notices home to our parents.

[pnwmom]

136. Yes, there is. It should be up to the parents whether they distribute

this worthless piece of data to their children or not. She's an 11 year old sixth grader, not a pregnant girl in need of an abortion!

If a girl is actually fat, she knows it. A fat-shaming letter will not help her.

On the other hand, it's much more likely that a girl who is NOT overweight could read this letter, go to the website pointed to in the letter and find out that she is supposedly "overweight" -- and get triggered into an eating disorder.

[Azathoth]

143. So a statistic she can look up on the federal government's homepage is now double top secret?

This is part of the reason why things just get worse in this country. Every time someone takes even a timid step toward addressing a particular problem, people come flying out of the woodwork with hysterical, irrational nonsense like this. Obesity rates, including childhood obesity rates, are spiraling out of control -- they are *the* leading cause of projected skyrocketing healthcare costs. Michelle Obama tries to encourage schools to serve more vegetables at lunch and she gets accused of communism for her efforts. A school district in Florida sends a letter home with the kids informing their parents that their child's BMI is statistically high according to federal government guidelines, and suddenly they're now part of a fat-shaming conspiracy to turn American girls into bulimics.

[LisaL]

171. Take a look at the child's photo. This child is not overweight.

Why is school sending fat letters to children who are not overweight?

[Azathoth]

176. lol, you're not even aware what you're responding to. You're just spouting off.

This is why I stopped serving in local government

[pnwmom]

192. It probably wouldn't have occurred to her to look for such a statistic

if she hadn't gotten the fat letter in the first place. We shouldn't be encouraging healthy, active girls like her to be obsessing about their weight -- which a public weighing and letter like this could do.

[The Straight Story]

180. And probably old enough to have other meds and health education

We 'know' kids that age will have sex, so let's teach them all about it, give them contraceptives, push for laws for no parental consent, but tell them their BMI might be on the high side and.....well, we don't think they are ready for that.

[pnwmom]

193. Girls don't need any further encouragement than they already get

from society to obsess about weight rather than being healthy and active -- as this girl obviously is.

[laundry_queen]

205. You have NO idea what fat shaming in front of peers does to a preteen do you?

Didn't think so.

[RedCappedBandit]

237. The BMI is useless for such outliers

so why bother use it when working with athletes?

Their reaction to the standard form letter is a bit overblown because it really doesn't mean shit, given that it's just outlining what the BMI might say. But the use of BMI is inadequate and outdated.

[RC]

88. We received an ad from JC Penney a few weeks ago.

Most of the women models shown, were walking tinker toys. Straight lines. Bo figure. Women aren't suppose to have straight lines. They are supposed to have a shape. Healthy women are supposed to have a layer of fat reserve. None of these women did.
Anyway, towards the back they had Plus size dresses. The women modeling these dresses looked like normal women. Nothing plus about their size at all. Just average everyday females, you see anywhere.

[pnwmom]

92. And most of those pictures have been photo-shopped.

Even models today aren't skinny enough for those pictures.

Take a look at this one:

http://www.businesspundit.com/15-dumbest-fashion-ad-photoshop-fails/?img=43294

[RC]

98. None of them looked that bad.

[pnwmom]

113. Even the ones with the missing limbs?

The photo-shopped photo on the right side of the Ralph Lauren ad (#15) is not humanly possible. An adult woman cannot have a head size larger than her pelvis. She's shaped more like an insect than a normal human being.

But we don't notice anymore because they've photoshopped most of the fashion models these days, even in the Penneys catalog.

[RC]

117. I was talking about a JC Penny ad.

[WinkyDink]

123. The Tinker-Toy model is exactly why the increase in breast augmentations. Gotta get fake fat.

[RC]

130. I kinda wondered about that.

Hollow cheeks, ribs showing, but "normal" sized breasts. Really? How? Now I know. I didn't think they had enough skin to stretch that far to implant something for 'normal' looking breasts though.

[pnwmom]

137. Right. The only natural way for most young women to have

a pair of breasts is to have some fat elsewhere in the body, too.

[ileus]

101. Typical republican nanny state bs...

Probably asked her religion also.

[HockeyMom]

108. Naples, Florida, IS Teabagger, Rick Scott land

You vote here for Rebublicans or "Independents". There are no Dems running for office. I dont vote for local candidates. Republicans or Republican LITES? No.

[Warpy]

102. They won't be happy until she's limp and anorexic, fashionably idle and unhealthy

I don't think those obesity letters do any damned good at all.

Obviously, kids who are grotesquely overweight need to be checked for metabolic problems. If no problem is found, that should be the end of it. Some of us are fat. Some of us are skinny. The rest of us just need to shut up and deal.

It might be different if medical science had any real way to make weight loss permanent. It doesn't.

[HockeyMom]

118. Medical Science cannot make skinny kids

"normal" either. Been there, done that. Doesn't work. We are who we are meant to be. That is the problem with health care. They have a "cure" for all your needs, except GENES. What is their "cure" for making short people TALL????? Or how about the wrong eye, or skin color? You are getting into very dangerous territory when you start going there.

We need to be teaching our children to accept, be happy, and PROUD for who they are, even if that doesn't meet the "ideals" of society, and the AMA.

[laundry_queen]

206. At this age

destroying their self esteem and shaming them in front of peers is going to have a much longer lasting effect than a bit of pudge. Most girls I went to school with who were a bit pudgy as teens really slimmed out as adults. And some of us who were slim...now, not so much.

I agree with what you say about genes. My oldest dd is skinny - 5'4" and maybe 110 lbs? at 16 yrs old. My second is heavy...not sure of her weight but she's a size 10 at age 13 while my oldest is a size 2. They were like that from day one. My oldest was nearly off the charts skinny as an exclusively breastfed baby and my second was off the charts in the other direction, also as an exclusively breastfed infant. They. were. born. that. way. My oldest takes after my ex and my second takes after me. The only reason I was a normal weight as a teen is my mom put me on diets, shamed me, punished me, made me feel like shit if I ate anything that wasn't pristine...she emotionally abused me into thinness. I actually have PCOS which means I have issues losing weight and I've had it since I hit puberty. I can tell you - trying to force me to be thin as a teen made me into an obese adult with food issues (and everything is made worse by the PCOS). Shaming these young girls into losing weight to fit into their charts is doing them no favors long-term.

And god, do I agree with your last sentence!!

[Hydra]

107. We've get a huge problem with image vs substance

This is a great example of them going way over the line with it.

[HockeyMom]

112. I refused to be weighed, or measured, by the Collier County School District

I am 100 lbs. Are you that BLIND to not be able to see that????? Do you need a scale or some computerized BMI to use your BRAINS for you????? Yeah, Repukes DO.

Ditto for this child, but you see in this land of Rick Scott, Fraud Governor, TeaBagger Naples town they will use anything means they can to get their way and make $$$ (health care) from you.

As an adult, I can quit working for them. I feel very sorry for the children who have to live with this CRAP.

[duffyduff]

115. I hate judgmental assholes who think body size is equivalent to virtue.

Let's not lie about the "health issues." This is all about bigotry, and it almost always is aimed at women.

[Posteritatis]

126. Ugh, some really depressing responses in this thread. (nt)

[alarimer]

131. Schools need to butt out and stop testing kids for BMI

First off, it's shit science.

It doesn't work for individuals, even though it's not a bad measure for population-level statistics. But they are not using it that way. They are using it to shame individuals, even if in this case, they made an error.

It's none of their fucking business anyway.

[HockeyMom]

135. +1000

I say that as this school district's former employee.

[madrchsod]

134. dam i would have liked to have her on my soccer teams

in fact i had several 6th graders who were bigger than her and they were some of the best players in their age group.

[pnwmom]

138. One of the articles said she practices 6 days a week

on two different teams.

She's obviously in great shape.

[dembotoz]

140. she's overweight???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

damn

the got the right kid in the video right

i don't see it
i really don't

[pnwmom]

142. Right. That's the girl in the video. And she's not overweight at all,

but sending her a message like this could push a more vulnerable girl into an eating disorder.

[BlueJazz]

144. One thing is clear. I'll bet the guys in her class are thinking "Wow..just Wow!"

...And most of the girls are thinking. "Wish I had a body like that"

[pnwmom]

194. +1. nt

[Vashta Nerada]

147. BMI is as worthless as John Boehner.

[seabeyond]

156. A lot of insensitive asinine comments of this thread. My youngest was thick.

People wanted to categorize him. One side of family has to hit puberty and they slim down fine. Not that our society wants to wait for nature to do the work.

[LisaL]

159. This is absolutely crazy.

This girl is not overweight. Using height of 5 feet 3 inches and weight of 127 LB, her BMI is 22.5, which is in a normal range.
So why is the school sending a "fat" letter to a child who is in a normal range? Do they want anorexic children or what?

[Owl]

161. Much ado about nothing.

[jmowreader]

168. This has got to be the best one

This is a picture of Doutzen Kroes, one of the most popular models working today.



This is ALSO a picture of Doutzen Kroes...who is Dutch.

[Hekate]

169. Apparently a lot of responders to the OP didn't actually look at the gir's photo at the link.

No way is she "fat" or "at risk". She is slender in appearance, and as a athlete has managed to put on muscle, something we want our girls to do.

Some idiot looked at numbers on a piece of paper instead of the actual girl. If she were a couch potato, 127 pounds would look different on her frame, but she's not.

I agree with you, pnwmom -- the behavior of the school and the screeners is appalling.

[NoOneMan]

178. I saw it

And? She is an exception. A false flag I wouldn't take too seriously due to her obvious fitness level

[LisaL]

186. An exception? So she is the only child who participates in sports?

[NoOneMan]

187. She is 127 in 6th grade

An exception.

Thats bigger than I was and Im a big guy.

Obviously she probably has some physical genetics. BMI test doesn't take that into consideration. An exception to a shitty system

[pnwmom]

189. Not really. 127 pounds wouldn't make her fat even if she weren't an athlete.

My daughter was 5 feet 5 in 6th grade. When I brought her in for an appointment about her skin, the doc suddenly asked her how much she weighed. She weighed 125 pounds. Good, said the doctor. Privately, I asked the doctor why she had asked her.

It was because of the loose clothing she was wearing. Sometimes girls with eating disorders try to cover it up with loose clothes. And high achieving girls are especially subject to eating disorders. That doctor was much more concerned about the possibility of my daughter being underweight than about her being overweight -- and the girl in the OP was just about the size of my daughter.

[NoOneMan]

197. Uh doh!

I didn't say itd make her fat. You are arguing against yourself. Itd probably put her in the top echelon though, and thats where BMI fails. For the love of God. That heavy for a 6th grader and if they dont have the height to fit into that special chart, then that's that.

My wife is way over charts at that weight and she is about 14% bf or less. Weight is not related linearly to obesity, and the BMI index does not take this into account.

In any case, it makes her an exception. Some people have serious comprehension skills

[pnwmom]

196. LOTS of girls were bigger than you were. You might be big now,

but you weren't then.

Like most boys, you were quite a big smaller than the tall girls. And you weren't physically developed then, either. Girls on the average are two years ahead of boys going through puberty, and that causes them to gain weight, too.

Maybe the pain of those years is still eating at you . . .

[NoOneMan]

198. No, not in 6th grade. That is very large for 6th grade

Maybe the pain of those years is still eating at you

Grow up and stop trying to bend over backwards to make a fairly straightforward deal personal and emotional. Poutrage really makes you vicious, eh?

BTW, I just checked first chart I found on Google and average is about 75 lbs for age 11

[LisaL]

201. Why is she supposed to be average?

This is obviously a very healthy child. She isn't "at risk" despite the school labeling her as such.

[NoOneMan]

207. Who said she is supposed to be average?

[pnwmom]

204. It isn't very large for a FEMALE 6th grader.

It's the boys who are still shrimps in sixth grade. Half of the girls have started their first periods by age 12, which means they've almost reached their full adult height.

[NoOneMan]

208. The chart I looked at was for girls

Yeah, I get it. Girls develop faster. I know this. Thats still way, way above average for a girl at that age, hence explaining why she might be a false flag in a system that doesn't consider fitness or body fat %. If you want to believe that 127 for a 11 year old isnt an exception or out of the ordinary, then go ahead and play in pretend land

Check this. ~90% of girls are smaller than that at age 11

[pnwmom]

211. The weight alone is MEANINGLESS. She's the height of many adult women,

well above the average 11 year old girl. Her weight is proportionate to her height, not an outlier for someone her height.

[pnwmom]

195. There is nothing wrong with a girl of her height and weight

even if she wasn't a big athlete. She isn't an exception or a false flag -- just a girl who is tall for her age and already physically developed, with an appropriate weight for her build.

[NoOneMan]

199. Who said there is anything wrong with that?

You are the first to suggest that.

There isn't enough info to make that determination. We really should take into account fitness levels and BF % instead of age charts and BMI for trying to quickly identify if anything is wrong.

[pnwmom]

202. You keep saying she's an outlier, but she isn't.

Lots of girls are developed in 6th grade, and they're taller and weigh more than boys the same age. But if you just look at her pictures she's a strong, slender girl. Not an outlier by any means.

[NoOneMan]

209. For the love of God, shes outside the middle of the bell curve for girls at that age

Thats ok. Thats fine. But that is why she is an outlier. Sure she is strong and slender. I never said otherwise. Being strong and slender at 127 doesn't make her an average 11 year old. Actually, quite the opposite.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

[pnwmom]

210. Are you being obtuse on purpose? What possible good

is there for the district to send letters via these students that point them to an online website that will tell them they are "overweight"? (That's according to the mother.)

What does being outside the bell curve have to do with anything? Girls who are unusually tall and are height/weight proportionate are all outside the bell curve. None of them should be getting these letters.

[LisaL]

212. Exactly.

If she is tall for her age, what exactly are her parents supposed to do? It's absurd.

[NoOneMan]

215. Her parents could toss it in the trash, explain why its not accurate, laugh a bit, reinforce her...

and move on (rendering it insignificant and pointless).

Or they could make a huge deal about it and cry to the media, making her a public example for her peers to react to.

[pnwmom]

217. They are teaching her a valuable lesson. When you encounter

intransigent public officials who are intent on carrying out a policy that could harm other people, then challenge them publicly if they won't respond directly.

Good for that mother and her daughter for coming forward like that and helping to draw attention to that schools' poor policy and the issue of eating disorders in general.

[NoOneMan]

219. Then again, they made a huge hub bub and could of transformed her to a laughing stock

People sometimes need to learn to chill when raising kids. Thats what I think as both a parent and a former coach of youth sports. Parents get out of hand and make mountains out of molehills. Its not always the case. But damn there is a lot of parent whining these days

[pnwmom]

221. Did you watch her on the video? Going forward could not

have turned this very attractive star athlete into a laughingstock. She's clearly a leader, and her friends were probably excited to see her on TV.

[NoOneMan]

213. "None of them should be getting these letters."

Obviously they need to refine their criteria if you don't believe they should throw the baby out with the bathwater; some here do seem to suggest that a school should not attempt education and outreach for obese children. But as I've said, in this specific case, its so laughable that this outlier (yep, she isn't average for her age) is obese that is should simply be laughed off as a stupid error of a stupid system by the parents.

[pnwmom]

214. NONE OF THEM should be handed these letters to take home.

Any similar letters should be sent directly to the parents.

And I think sending BMI's is worthless, if this girl is any indicator. Any nurse could do a better job just taking a careful look at a student.

[NoOneMan]

216. Body fat testing is probably not feasible

Though fitness tests could be. We use to have presidential fitness programs that we have to pass when I was in middle school. I wonder if those are still around. Of course, they were never used at the time to educate parents when children failed

Basically they are using a system thats been ridiculous for decades. Its too bad. Though we also do not know, at this time, how many kids it accurately identified and how many parents reacted positively to those letters. We simply don't know that

[pnwmom]

218. Of course it is. My son had body fat testing in a college PE class. n/t

[NoOneMan]

220. With calipers?

Or did they use ultrasound or full body immersion? Did they also do hydration testing? That affects your readings immensely

[pnwmom]

222. They used more than one method, but calipers would be the easiest

to do in a school setting. It's not as precise as the other methods, but a whole lot better than a BMI alone.

[NoOneMan]

223. Its not precise at all

But yeah, better than BMI. BMI is quick and easy. Results are reflective of this

[rdharma]

175. BMI is BS!

BMI does not take into account age, gender, or muscle mass. Nor does it distinguish between lean body mass and fat mass. As a result, some people, such as heavily muscled athletes, may have a high BMI even though they don't have a high percentage of body fat.

[flvegan]

188. So what did the nutritionist on staff say?

Oh, probably didn't have one. I knew without looking, because no nutritionist would have sent that letter. So shitwits with no clue about diet are sending out messages like this.

In other news, Ms. Olympia is way fucking fat, because BMI.

Morons.

[datasuspect]

224. coach used to call us sissies, punks, maggots, fairies, all kinds of rotten names

and it hurt me deep inside.

i thought that was the mark of a tough guy, but it isn't. it is injurious and harmful.

shame on the school for that letter.

[pnwmom]

226. The biggest defender of that letter here

turns out to have been a coach. I wonder if there is a connection.

And now that I think about it, the meanest boy I knew in middle school ended up being a college coach. I've often wondered what it's like for his athletes.

[NoOneMan]

228. Clearly coaches are all just evil people who give up all their free time to help young kids develop

both physically and emotionally, while setting and obtaining goals

[pnwmom]

232. No, most of them aren't evil or ignorant or on power kicks. Just some. n/t

[libodem]

225. I worked in an

Adolescent treatment center and the grip this had on young girls was extraordinary. Sometimes they had to be refered onto long term or speciality clinics. They really were at risk of starving to death. The whole family is usually psychologically ill. What a mess. Drug abuse and cutting rival the difficulty of treatment.

[pnwmom]

227. I bet there turns out to be a genetic risk factor as well,

as with other mental illnesses, that can triggered by other risk factors.

[greatlaurel]

230. BMI is junk science

My DH is a retired college phys ed prof and retired women's coach. He has stated for decades that BMI is absolutely meaningless. He laughs every time his health plan calls for his phone check up and they tell him how good he is BMI is. His great BMI did not keep him from getting Type 2 diabetes, his genetic predisposition was the key.

Now, I want very much to defend good coaches and phys ed teachers. They do tremendous work for young people and help them establish mental tools for resiliency to use for the rest of their lives. My DH coached women's college basketball and never, ever required his players to loose weight or get weighed. He knew that was none of his business. He would get them, by a number of fun and demanding ways, in the best shape of their lives. One of his players was in a horrendous car accident. The doctors told her parents the only reason she survived was because of her tremendous physical condition. She went on to finish college, have a career and have a family.

Unfortunately, there are a certain percentage of coaches who are sociopaths or other types of abusers who have no business around young people. Administrators are very poor at screening out these people. They do so much damage.

The parents of this young woman are doing exactly the right thing. Thanks for posting this. Also, thanks for the info about this district and to everyone who has been supportive of the parents and the young woman. Shame on you few jerks that think the shaming behavior is OK. It is not and it is damaging. You have no idea how many young woman develop eating disorders.

[pnwmom]

231. Thanks for your thoughtful and informative post, greatlaurel,

and welcome to DU!

[greatlaurel]

241. Thank you for the welcome

[Myrina]

233. ... and yet male-athletes in high school football are walking walls ...

... go out to any high school football game & look at how enormous the linesmen and linebackers are.

It's common to see 16 year old "boys" over 6'0 weighing 230 lbs.
I don't recall ANYONE that big when I was in high school (granted it was 30 years ago).
So it's ok for the guys because it will get them 'noticed' by a college scout, but for a girl it's not ok?

Grrr.

[RedCappedBandit]

235. BMI is such nonsense

This just goes to show what a useless measurement it is.