Does anyone have a crazy left wing family member?

[jollyreaper2112]

One would tend to think that all ideas are fair game and there can be conspiracies on the left and right and therefore among a population with people getting older and more set in their ways, getting more suspicious and paranoid, there should be as many left wing nuts as there are right wing nuts.

Thing is, it just doesn't seem that way.

I'm trying to think about what a liberal nut would have to bang on about. I don't see crackpot left wing chain mails forwarding around. We never had the inaccurate lies about either Bush floating around as we have had against Clinton and Obama. Nobody accused Laura of being a lesbian or Bush orchestrating the murder of a Vice Foster. About the strongest accusation was his election was illegitimate which is a far sight away from calling him a Kenyan Muslim.

Religion isn't exclusively conservative but those are the only ones you really hear about. There's no strong religious left pushing for radical reform like gay rights or political and social reform. All religious pressure in this country is towards strengthening the norms or returning us to an imaginary Christian root which is radical but still on the right.

Alternative medicine is where I have seen the most woo but there's not really exclusivity there. For every macrobiotic hippie I can find you a winger who has equally odd notions. You might not find many republican vegans but antivax cuts across the spectrum.

What's my guess? There's more money to be made from and thus more money put into promoting right wing craziness. Therefore when someone gets older and is more susceptible to falling for bullshit, that's what's there to believe in. And I am starting to wonder at just how much hard work has been put into crafting the conservative message, not just in the mainstream but in crazyland. UN mandates and black helicopters could have been spun as evil corporations but it wasn't. OWS had good points and could have been the springboard for moving from valid critiques to paranoia and conspiracy stuff. It wasn't.

I suppose that you could consider what I'm saying here to be a left wing conspiracy theory, that older relatives going nutty towards a particular political bent is that sort or thing but its only a nutty conspiracy theory if it isn't true!

[trumad]

1. My Mother is a Fox breathing Tea Baggin whacko

The only person I've ever deleted completely from my Facebook.

My fricking Mother!

[Xyzse]

35. I don't have facebook.

And I can't block her from my e-mail.

My mother I mean.

[CrispyQ]

54. Sorry about your mom. I know what it's like.

My mother turned into one, after listening to Rush Limbaugh, day after day. It was a remarkable transformation. It only took about 18 months. I hardly recognized her. She passed in '07. I miss her, but I'm not sure our already conflicted relationship would have survived the '08 election.

[Recursion]

2. One word: MIHOP

The right doesn't have a trademark on crazy.

[stevenleser]

33. Many on the Alex Jones wing of the right, which are just modern birchers, are MIHOPers too. nt

[blm]

41. and most see it more like LIHOP with all the warnings that were ignored

most of which were only learned years later.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB381/

[stevenleser]

48. It's known that the CIA was very concerned.CIA Dir Tenet and several of his deputies including Black

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/washington/03rivals.html?_r=0

tried several times to warn Nat Sec Advisor Condi Rice. Woodward goes so far in his book as to suggest that Rice threw Tenet and Black out of her office at one point because she was so annoyed by his repeated and insistent warnings.

Edited to add: But what is clear to me is that LIHOP is not involved. Rice was incompetent and Bush was incompetent. Its really that simple. Rice's only expertise was the Soviet Union which no longer existed. She had no experience with terrorism or Middle East policy or National Security outside of the non-existent Soviet Union and Bush had no foreign policy experience at all.

[sabrina 1]

59. Rice was not incompetent. She outright LIED about Iraq and you didn't need to

be an expert on anything to know that. She lied for a REASON. And she got support by her lies, for an illegal, brutal, devastating war that cost this country and Iraq hundreds of thousands of HUMAN LIVES not to mention the total waste of billions of dollars.

To use the word 'incompetent' when speaking about any of the Bush War Criminals is like calling a lion a kitty cat. They KNEW what they were doing, they knew they were lying and the Corporate Media knew also and facilitated them.

She was annoyed when ANYONE interrupted the planned and rehearsed propaganda. Because they paid a lot of money to spread that propaganda around and could not tolerate anyone challenging their lies. THAT is why she was annoyed. If she was merely incompetent should have welcomed some expert opinions. She was PROTECTING the LIES.

Rice is a war criminal.

Bush is a war criminal and Cheney, Rummy and the rest of those who lied to get us into that war, and the torturers, all are war criminals and should have been prosecuted here in the US.

[stevenleser]

60. The two are not mutually exclusive. She was incompetent as NSA AND she is a liar. nt

[SheilaT]

91. I always thought that Rice sounded as if she were lying

just about any time she spoke. It was very strange. Her voice had the kind of tight, constricted quality that I associate with someone who is obviously lying and doing a very bad job of it. Since I have never met the woman I have no way of knowing if that's simply her normal voice, but I understand there are ways of doing voice analysis electronically which supposedly can uncover lying vs truthtelling by some sort of vocal qualities. I've always wished someone would do it for her.

[Ganja Ninja]

66. I don't know about MIHOP or LIHOP but ...

I'm pretty sure Cheney and Rumsfeld were behind the Anthrax attacks. I think you'd have to be crazy not to believe the government wasn't involved.

[Mopar151]

3. That would be me...

Or my 83 yo Mom!

[ananda]

4. No, all the crazies in this family are Republican rightwingers and fundies.

Actually, the phrase "crazy left wing" is an oxymoron.

[srican69]

5. I joined FiredogLake for a while .. I found them too lefty

[beachbum bob]

6. fear sells

Liberals arent as easily controlled by fear so they arent running off half cocked.

[littlewolf]

9. I remember Y2K and all the insanity that went with it.

Me, I may have gone a little over the top, stocked up on food,
had extra cash on hand, had a 55 gal plastic drum for water.
bought a propane fired generator. (the house runs off propane:heat,
hotwater and stove. so the generator would keep the lights on and the fridge and freezer working.)
but I had the last laugh, a few days after y2k, we had a big snow storm
so the generator came in handy as did the food.
the 55 gal drum, I cut the top off and use it for recycled plastic. works great.

[jollyreaper2112]

22. y2k was a little more wingery

At least in my part of the world. It was the doomsday prepper types who were freaking out about it and most of them overlap with the conservatives.

I've actually never watched the show but I know they've found some real freakshows. Were any of them on the left?

Over the past decade or two, I can't think of much crazy lefty violence. There was the guy who shot up the cable news HQ and I think he was some flavor of anarcho-atheist. I think there was a ski lodge burned down 15 years back by the ELF. I think ALF has hit a few research labs. A few kids vandalized SUV's with environmental messages.

[jollyreaper2112]

24. yeah

And a smart conservative wouldn't be controlled by fear, either. They're damn rare on the ground now, likely extinct. But by the same token, there should be nutty liberals to go along with their saner brethren. But it doesn't seem to happen.

You see people posting here about abuse they received as a child, dad drinking heavy, playing with guns, firing them off in the house because he enjoys the terror in their eyes, when he gets political, odds are he's not quoting Chomsky.

[ejpoeta]

7. my brother. I can't even really talk to him anymore.

He watches Glen Beck. You should hear the crap he drones on about. He is very into stocking up because soon we are going to need it. My sister and brother in law are interesting because they watch fox news and spout stuff about welfare recipients or "those people" the ones in NYC. And they also work for the IRS. they are furloughed right now. Needless to say they are not happy. I don't really blame them, but then again.... they voted for these people. And the problem is they blame the democrats and obama for the problems. I hope they are hearing some of the stuff the republicans and tea party folks are saying. I hope they are HEARING it.

[LWolf]

10. Glen Beck

is not a lefty, nor does he promote left-wing ideas. How does that make your brother "crazy left wing?"

[ejpoeta]

18. oops. i need to learn to read. i saw crazy RIGHT wing. uggh.

'nevermind'.

[HappyMe]

8. Yup, I sure do.

I have a cousin that is a left wing nutbar, MIHOP type. I finally had to unfriend and block from my FB.

There are crazies on both sides.

[LWolf]

11. DU used to be a left-wing discussion group. nt

[HappyMe]

12. You think it isn't anymore?

I think DU is a nice mix of differing viewpoints.

[TBF]

37. lol - it is mostly centrists figuring out how to save the capitalism.

The leftists that are still around are hiding in the socialist progressives group and trying not to get steamrolled by the "reasonable" folks who have taken over the party.

[hunter]

64. I get ignored, but I don't get "steamrolled."

The rough-and-tumble of General Discussions is fine with me. No reason to "hide."

I don't think there's any way to save capitalism (whatever the hell that is) or this world economy. Politically the only thing we can do is lay the foundations on which a less energy intensive society can grow as Mother Nature disposes of this current civilization.

Humans are an innovative species that has experienced exponential population growth. It's happened before in the history of earth, and it will happen again. Some sort of stability will be achieved. If we humans can't establish a stability that suits us, Mother Nature will impose one on us, one that probably won't be to our liking with a lot of us suffering horribly and perishing young.

In ten thousand years none of this shit will matter. In a hundred thousand years earth will be as wild as it's ever been. Our "civilization" will be little more than a peculiar layer in the geological record.

I've got a vision of a radical socialist ecologically sound utopia and there's no arguing with that. It will happen or it won't. If it doesn't happen then the human population will collapse, we will revert to something resembling the cultures of our very ancient ancestors, and the world population of humans will be about what it was 20,000 years ago. Or else we will be extinct.

[treestar]

110. Baloney and liberals do believe in capitalism that should be regulated

They are included under the big tent. Socialism is not coming to the US in a long time, and there is some question of whether or not it can work in a large and diverse country.

[TBF]

112. "Liberals do believe in capitalism that should be regulated" -

yes, that is exactly what they believe. That is why we have so many problems. IMO, you can't tame it.

The only people capitalism is "working well" for is that top 1%. The other top 20% see themselves as future "owners" of some sort and think it could potentially work for them ... everyone else is SOL.

[treestar]

115. It works well for only the rich when it is unregulated

And when people don't pay attention and let the media do their thinking for them.

But it works well enough as long as it is overseen by the People. I'm glad you recognize a "capitalist" can still be a "liberal." It's bad enough dealing with right wingers who insist I'm a "socialist" because I think the market should have some rules to abide by.

[TBF]

116. This is the statement I disagree with -

"But it works well enough as long as it is overseen by the People." Does it though? Really?

I grew up watching Teddy Kennedy, with parents who belonged to unions and voted for dems.

It hasn't been until the past few years that I've really come to the conclusion that you just can't regulate capitalism. We had a period of time, roughly 1930 or so until 1980 (about 50 years) in which we did regulate and tax more heavily. I would argue that workers as a whole did better in those 50 years as evidenced by rates of class mobility. But capitalism fought back and with the help of Reagan happily crushed most gains made in those years.

This is where we are now -- http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph (lots of good info on income inequality which have been done in the past few years).

Make no mistake - we are living here with our 2-party system. I was a precinct co-captain in 2008 overseeing the caucus in hopes of getting Barack Obama elected. Similarly, I will be volunteering on Wendy Davis' campaign here in Texas for governor. I do pay attention to the here and now - and do what I can on a practical level to help folks while keeping greater goals in mind.

I'm also not the best example of a Marxist out there - I have a very weak understanding of dialectical materialism and I don't know that we've found the right way to do socialism (certainly anyone can find both plus and minuses with the societies created in the USSR, Cuba and even on the Israeli Kibbutzim).

But I do think it's worth striving to design and put into place a new system.


I know you are I are pretty far apart in basic ideology/philosophy - I just wanted to type this out because there's been a lot of left bashing creeping up on DU lately, and I hoped this would help you see where my perspective is coming from. Cheers.

[LWolf]

98. When DU transitioned to DU3,

the "left-wing" self-identification in "About DU" was changed to "liberal."

It was deliberate; a move away from the left.

[TBF]

113. Yes - absoluteley. nt

[cali]

74. it's simply absurd to think that there aren't nutwads who

grab onto left wing ideology.


there are.

[LWolf]

99. Not my point.

There are "nutwads" everywhere I look.

That post, though, seems to belong to a relatively recent theme on DU: distancing the left. That steady drip, drip, drip of threads and posts determined to shift perspective about the left, and from the left...of course there are irrational people on the left, just as there are everywhere. I don't think those people define the left, though, and focusing attention on the outliers is a strategy I don't appreciate.

I think its okay to remind some of DU's roots in the self-identified "left-wing."

[TBF]

114. I agree - it is a definite recent posture by the party.

This is not accidental - it is a deliberate attempt to keep marching towards the center (I would say to the right of center as many self-proclaimed liberals or leftists in this country are centrists at best currently).

We are in dark ages indeed.

[jollyreaper2112]

25. Ok, so we have one

Most of the radical MIHOPS I know still tend towards the right. But this does seem like the sort of thing that would lend itself to becoming the kenyan muslim conspiracy of the left.

[fitman]

50. Yes there are

Crazies on both sides...

I'm middle of the road but lean left..have both liberal and far right friends..but don't discuss politics with them

[Freddie]

13. There is indeed a Christian Left

Check us out on FB.

My BIL is a leftover hippie type, further to the left than me (that's pretty far left!) he voted for Nader in 2000 but he's since seen the error of his ways.

[Recursion]

15. I still get emails from Jim Wallis every day

There definitely is a Christian left.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. But Jim Wallis is a homophobic bigot, not liberal but conservative, and I'd say

not Christian but Paulist. In May he stood up with the Southern Baptists to oppose LGBT rights yet again.
"Jim Wallis, a longtime social justice advocate and the founder and editor of Sojourners, teamed up with infamous gay-haters, the Southern Baptist Convention and the National Association of Evangelicals, to demand that gay couples be banned from immigration reform.
Wallis, incredibly, organized a media conference call with renowned gay-hater and right-wing knuckle-dragger Richard Land of the Baptists (who famously claimed that women who get an abortion are psychologically impaired) in order to kill any effort to address the problems gay couples face with immigration."
http://americablog.com/2013/05/jim-wallis-sojourners-gay-immigration.html

[Recursion]

45. He is.

We get from people what we can.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. I personally don't need anything that a bigot like Wallis is pushing.

He's a right wing con man.

[Rex]

80. I guess people like parts of his message?

Looks like a crazy RWing loon to me too.

[madrchsod]

106. i have a few christian left facebook pages...

there`s always some right wing christian that pops in and rants about us. they are usually good for laughs.

[dembotoz]

14. me myself and I

[RedCappedBandit]

16. The far left is nothing like the far right

I seriously question anybody who claims they're equivalent.

[jollyreaper2112]

26. reread my post

I'm saying they don't seem the same at all. I'm saying there should be enough fodder for paranoia and conspiracies so that we could have crazy left-wing uncles to go with crazy right-wing aunts but it doesn't appear to be this way. It's like trying to explain baryon asymmetry. We should have equal amounts of matter and antimatter in the universe, the standard model and general relativity seem to think so, but far as we can tell we don't. Why not? Seems like we should have as many crazies on the left but it seems like the right has a near-monopoly on crazy.

[HappyMe]

31. I think that maybe the left crazies

just aren't as loud as the right crazies. It seems to me that you are pretty much sold on the idea that left wing crazies don't, or barely exist. An OP on DU isn't a scientific poll or research where you can reach any decent conclusion. You even tried to sweep my nutty MIHOP, CT loving cousin under the rug by saying most MIHOPs are right wing. Like it or not, there are kooks on both sides of the aisle.

[RedCappedBandit]

58. It speaks volumea to me that you put left in qutations, there

[jollyreaper2112]

65. didn't that sort of lefty pretty much die out in the 60's?

Western infatuation with Soviet-style communism fell apart after WWII and the truth about Stalin came out. I wasn't around for Vietnam but weren't only a small and idiot minority of the war protesters actually pro-communism?

[Festivito]

17. During Reagan era GOP discovered if you put RWers on and keep LWers off...

Ronald Reagan is made to appear centrist.

So, their media buddies would promote right wing nuttery such as Rush Limbaugh and others. They would directly support these shows or support them through advertising dollars.

Direct money, er, ah, donations, were given to right wing religious radio stations. Left wing idealism was not funded by the left. Who has the money? Left wing shows would wither and die with a simple cash flow problem. The space could be quickly acquired for another religious show and eventually the airwaves would be filled with right wing talk.

Again, making the right wing appear centrist.

Not exactly finally, but, enough for here. The Fairness Doctrine was eliminated. Those counter views that would appear around 2AM -- gone.

After consolidation of the media from hundreds of outlets to its current six, right wing nuttery is on most. A few shows show the other side.

But, people in their busy lives judge by quantity and not so much by quality.

[jollyreaper2112]

27. ok, so it's like my supposition then

You only have one kind of disease someone's exposed to, that's what they're likely to catch. Seems to make sense.

[Festivito]

29. If you're exposed more to one.

Rather than only one.

[d_r]

19. no, but my family members do

[Fumesucker]

20. That would be me if you ask the rest of the family

[LuvNewcastle]

43. Same here. But they think Obama's a socialist, so their opinion means squat.

[msanthrope]

21. Yes--I have two anti-vaxxer, Dr. Mercola types who have caused considerable family strife. nt

[hack89]

23. One 911 Truther and one anti-vaxxer. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

28. The far left health nuts are ones that bug me. If that is the way you want to live, go for it. But

don't talk to me like I"m beneath you because I don't make the same choices. There are those on the left that think they know what is best for everyone else and therefore get to tell other people what to do. To me that is far left, and it's not just the health nuts. There are plenty of other people right here on DU that if you don't think like they do they will belittle you, insult you, shame you, and bully you. I tend to stay away from people like that.

[HappyMe]

32. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Daniel537]

40. +1

Those types of people are basically your run-of-the-mill totalitarians.

[jollyreaper2112]

44. Right

Evangelism can come from the left and the right. But I've seen winger health nuts, too. It's not a topic like, say, the 2nd amendment which is predominantly right or environmentalism or civil rights (racial, sexual, etc) which are predominantly left.

I think the last real heyday of liberal political influence was with the social reforms enacted in the 60's and 70's. I was born in '77 so I started paying attention in the middle of the great Republican backlash against the liberal boogeyman, these pointy-headed elites pushing radical social engineering down on our decent, middle-class, christian, white heads. I had trouble understanding the persecution complex that fueled winger radio because I didn't really see those boogeymen they were talking about. True liberalism had stopped driving public policy by that point.

I grew up in a Christian household and read the American Family Association newsletters. They created a perception that this country was under a constant satanic attack. Naw, entertainment's just doing what it takes to make a buck. People respond to crass comedy, that's what they'll sell. And the conservative christian billionaires who are funding the newsletters bleating about sleazy media own those same media companies.

You want to know what the real threat to the American family is? Dual-incomes being a requirement for keeping your heads above water thanks to this ruinous economy, not sitcoms. Idiots are more concerned that someone said fuck instead of realizing they're getting fucked over.

[Myrina]

30. Yes, me.

n/t

[Niceguy1]

34. I have two far right and two far left

Family members. Its fun when they get started lol ha ha.

[littlewolf]

68. at family gatherings do the sane ones bring popcorn? :D nt

[Niceguy1]

95. lol yeah,

Even on facbook. Sad thing is both think they are right but in the end they aren't much different from eachother, just different ideas...both are are crazy ha ha

[Tikki]

36. Some Liberals say Atheists can be too aggressive and anti-religious..

...and say it is not good for the Liberal message. Also, the environmentalist and animal
rights activists are sometimes told to ratchet it down a bit by Liberals.


Tikki

[liberal_at_heart]

39. My children are atheists and I have raised them to be proud of who they are, but to also be

tolerant. My daughter has many Christian friends who accept her for who she is and she accepts them for who they are. My father who lives with us is evangelical Christian. Many of his beliefs offend my daughter, me, and my husband. When we get in discussions we do disagree, but we try to be civil. And we always try to remember that we love each other. My daughter loves her grandfather. She just doesn't agree with his beliefs.

[Tikki]

52. We are an Atheist family and I have a brother-in-law who is a preacher..I used to ask..

him questions whenever I saw him (not often) about things like hypocrisy and he always answered
by quoting a religious passage. I guess he knows me pretty well because that is his way of not having to
dialog with me about religion. I guess I could say 'huh?' but that is just not my style..


Tikki

[SheilaT]

93. Oh, yes. Quoting scripture instead of formulating

your own argument. Among the reasons I despise that tactic is that I don't believe that what you're quoting is sacred word of any kind. It is meaningless to me. I want to hear what you actually think, not what you've learned to parrot.

Understand my use of "you" here is a generic "you", not you, Tikki.

[Tikki]

97. I know...He really has it down..he even blesses the guns of the people who go to his church..

HI SheilaT
He is my brother-in-law, but totally different than my husband and his other brother.

When the family gets together that brother and I most often smile at each other and then move on...

Tikki

[HappyMe]

47. Overly aggressive atheists getting in my face

are just as bad as overly religious people pushing their beliefs on me.

[jollyreaper2112]

63. good point

PETA acts like a bunch of fools but they don't have the same pull as the NRA, you know? Dems aren't terrified of losing a PETA endorsement.

The thing is, I have known some people nutty on the left but they don't have influence. Like I actually have met a radical feminist preoccupied with gender theory. Thing is, she's about as rare as a bigfoot sighting. Conservative loudmouths who don't know what they're talking about are common as dog turds.

[cynatnite]

46. According to my RW-conspiracy loving sister, I am a left wing wacko. Go figure. n/t

[charmay]

49. I was the most left-wing until Scooter Walker got elected.

My older brother is a democrat, but could understand the republican side now and then. He even stuck up for Joe Scar. Now, thanks to Wanker, my brother and sister-in-law have joined me in our mutual disgust of everything republican.

[HooptieWagon]

53. Like CT crazy? No.

Myself, a brother, and our nephews are very liberal. Sister, other brother, inlaws, our nieces, and parents are all RW. As you can guess, family get-togethers aren't a lot of fun.

[liberal N proud]

55. I am sure that my two crazy right wing brothers would consider me to be crazy left wing

But then I don't talk to one of them at all any more after he came across the dinner table after me and the other is to racist, homophobic and senile to really have much to do with.

[Nye Bevan]

56. Like spouting nonsense about arresting Republican senators for treason or sedition?

Fortunately, no.

[jollyreaper2112]

67. well they do have a point

Nixon was impeached, so was Clinton. Only one of them was impeached for a good reason. Their impeachments I don't think are in any way equivalent.

Lots of Republicans were bleating about Dems being traitors and seditious and blah blah but they were just playing the old political game. The current Republican strategy seems to be a nuclear option-style escalation, crossing a very big line. They're breaking democracy. This really does seem like a constitutional crisis.

So I can appreciate people losing their shit over it. I'm not sure if that would make them crazy. I dunno.

[Javaman]

57. yes. Me. nt

[left is right]

62. My RW family members are mostly insane although a few are misinformed but

my LW family members tend more towards eccentric

[littlewolf]

69. OK I am not really up on abbreviations

what is MIHOP and LIHOP ?
thanks.

[jollyreaper2112]

75. 9-11 conspiracy talk

Made it Happen on Purpose, Let It Happen on Purpose.

I think that MIHOP requires too much exposure and coordination to be a plausible plan. I wouldn't buy it in a techno-thriller. This means they're sourcing the terrorists, training them, all the while knowing it has to stand up to world scrutiny with better than plausible deniability.

LIHOP is what I would use for a techno-thriller plot. The terrorists are sourcing and funding themselves. If the good guys screw up, the terrorists succeed. What's the difference between doing your job poorly and doing your job poorly on purpose? It has great plausible deniability. There's no obvious connection between terrorist and government plotter. There's still a lot of uncertainty in the plan. And there's also not conclusive proof that this happened. The best way for a bodyguard to assassinate his boss is to just be a step too slow when someone takes a shot.

In my personal opinion, there's maybe a 50% chance that 9-11 was a LIHOP that blew up in their faces. Quadruple hijacking and hostage crisis that could be spun up into a war in the middle east? Sure, ok, let's do it. Wait, they're not taking the planes to Cuba? They're crashing them?! Oh, boy.

But there's no conclusive proof on this. It's like a wife killing her husband for the insurance money. Sure, it's plausible. She has the means and motive. Did she do it? We can't say. That she's spending the money like crazy after the check clears might be tacky but still isn't proof. Likewise, the Bush admin exploited the shit out of 9-11 and made out like bandits. This isn't proof for MIHOP or LIHOP but it certainly should be enough for federal time. They lied their asses off. Iraqi WMD's, anyone? So much prison time.

PS false flag operations with dead American civilians is not unthinkable or beyond the realm of discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods was a series of false flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2] The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[3] One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".
Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

[littlewolf]

88. thank you for that detailed info. I feel so out of the loop sometimes.

maybe I need to buy a program. can't tell the players w/o a program.

[jollyreaper2112]

90. it's a simple show

If they're in the program, they're all scumbags, the only variant is just how venal they are.

[Capt. Obvious]

70. WHERE IS TED CRUZ'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!

[Blue_Tires]

71. a (distant) cousin of mine fell in with some hardline black nationalist group after college

It wasn't the NOI, but one of their little fringe offshoots...The stuff I see on his FB feed from time to time is unnerving, to say the least...

He's a decent, bright fellow and to my knowledge has stayed out of trouble, but some life circumstances have conspired against him like chronic unemployment despite his qualifications, divorce/kid custody issues, and living in what he calls the most racist place in the country (rural Louisiana)....

[Puzzledtraveller]

72. I've family members to the left of me and to the right of me.

[KamaAina]

73. Yes. My mom.

[Archae]

76. I got kicked off a Maoist message board.

They didn't like my bringing up Stalin's and Mao's thuggery.

[jollyreaper2112]

78. wow

There are still true believers?

[Archae]

79. Of course. There are fan message boards for Hitler, N Korea, Castro...

Anytime anyone brings up any of the failures and brutality of communist or fascist regimes, they are silenced.

[kestrel91316]

77. I'm the closest thing our family has to a crazy left wing nut, lol.

The others are with me in spirit - they just aren't as vocal about what they think.

[Curmudgeoness]

81. It looks like most of us are the left wing wackos in the family.

I suppose that when you have a family full of right wingers, you get labeled as the loon. Well, every family needs at least one loon.

But it isn't because of all the political emails or hate speech that I am considered a wacko. I am the wacko who goes to protest marches----OMG, is that insane or what!

[jollyreaper2112]

83. well that's the insane thing

Nixon would be too much of a pinko to get a GOP nomination these days. Reagan was in a union, for chrissakes! That's one step removed from giving Lenin a handjob.

So being left of center at this point is considered radical.

[Rex]

82. No. I have tons of RWing Alex Jones believing relatives.

No crazy CT lefties in the family.

[gopiscrap]

84. I am considered to be the crazy left winger and am proud of it!

my in laws are all a bunch of fucking repukes, we haven't talked to them except for funerals for 30 years

[joeglow3]

85. Let me direct you here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3805602

[jollyreaper2112]

87. question then

What would you call it when a faction of a political party deliberately tries to sabotage the democratic process? Is that not treason? Personally, I think vote tampering in a democracy should have the same stink and opprobrium usually reserved for child molesters and cannibals -- it should not be tolerated in our society. Republican attempts at voter suppression pretty much says "fuck your democracy, bitch." If you can't trust the process, if the other side won't respect it, what have you got left?

[Jamaal510]

86. My older sister and brother believe that the Illuminati might actually exist. eom

[dem in texas]

89. It's me

All conservative repub bothers and sisters think I am a flaming liberal because I am a Democrat. Before Obama was elected, my brother sat me down and gave me a "talking to" about what all could go wrong if Obama was elected. Ha!

[BainsBane]

92. Besides me?

Just kidding. My mom was sending around a lot of emails for a while. I think she still believes Bush killed Paul Wellstone. Obviously it doesn't compare to the right wingers, but family members were getting irritated. She doesn't do it anymore though.

If you're reading this, Mom.

(She won't tell me her DU name).

[SheilaT]

94. I sort of consider myself a left wing

nut. The older I get -- and I'm now 65 -- the more of a flaming liberal I become.

But I don't go along with any conspiracy theory nonsense.

[Samantha]

96. Yes, my family has one

It is me! I am the only liberal in the whole family. I have a huge family, and let me tell you being the only liberal is a huge burden to carry!

I don't think getting older necessarily makes people more easily suckered by bullshit. With each passing year, one see and hear more and more of this stuff and after a few decades of it, we go off about it.

Also, you mention religion. Most of my family is extremely conservative Southern Baptists. I am religious but I do not wear my beliefs on my sleeve. I think what one believes is a private matter.

Sam

[texanwitch]

100. The term crazy left wing does bother me.

What is crazy about being left wing.

That is what republicans call all liberals anyway.

I think crazy left wing is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't like liberals calling each other names.

Peace.

[jollyreaper2112]

108. I chose the term deliberately

I don't like unregulated capitalism. To my dad, that makes me a bomb-throwing anarchist. I'm not asking about what a conservative would call crazy, I'm talking about what a liberal would call crazy. Republicans think Obama is a socialist but the socialist party says they wish he was; his policies and own words mark him as a moderate republican. He only looks liberal because they ran from moderate right to nutter crazy pants chewing on the paint right.

It's not a scientific diagnosis, just a gut feeling. It could be adherence to fringe ideas or loud evangelism of ideas that might not be out there but something they are obnoxious about.

Just think about the winger uncle or dad and why you think they are so. Now imagine if anyone comes across like that from the left among friends, family, acquaintances.

[WCLinolVir]

101. I am the left wing nut. My brother is a close second.

[mountain grammy]

102. My cousin, who I love dearly, is over the left wing cliff

She lives mostly in Jamaica and is poor and in huge debt. She loves Jamaica and everything third world. Last time she was berating America saying in Jamaica everyone is more open to each other. I said, unless you happen to be gay. She said that's changing and I said it's changing much faster here. The only time she ever conceded a point to me. Most of the time I just agree cause I have to save my energy for the crazy right wingers who are much harder to love.

[Warpy]

103. That would be me, I think

Oh, the rest of them agree with me on most things and all but two of them are Democrats and nobody talks to the two who aren't because they're teabaggers.

However, I'm the one who gets out there on every lefto site on the web and posts.

[krispos42]

104. I think that's me.

Some on this board will no doubt cringe, but whatever. We've been voting Democrat for decades. Except for my public-college-educated, unionized-public-schoolteacher uncle, who became a RWer after 9/11.


Still can't figure that one out.

[madrchsod]

105. no..just a couple of right wing nutballs

actually i`m the crazy left winger in my family. i guess it`s because i was a sds member. other than that my family is a bunch of mellow democrats.

[DevonRex]

107. I wish I had crazy leftwing family members. Instead

I get racist anti-Obama emails. And racist anti-immigration email and racist pro-Zimmerman email. Anti-food stamps and welfare and anti-ACA. You get the picture.

Not one damned thing they're FOR, mind you. The last straw when I finally lost it was one that passed along racist jokes about blacks and Hispanics, implying drug use and thievery respectively. It was so blatant. didn't even try to hide the racism. Quite the contrary.

[socialist_n_TN]

109. Yeah, pretty much every one of us........

There's a couple of older relatives that are in the "moderate" Republican or "conservative" Democratic area, but the rest range from liberal to Dem socialist to me, full blown Trotskyist.

[treestar]

111. I'm sure someone does but

right wing craziness has creeped into the mainstream media. It is an easier sell in America - Bible thumping economic conservatism is more likely to resonate and socialist and communisms were too recently the big Evils, so left wing nuts are bound to be fewer in number.