Unless There Is A Way To Force "Boner" To Have A Vote With Some Kind Of Pressure We Will Default.

[TheMastersNemesis]

"Boner" feels he has more to lose by allowing a vote he know will pass. Unless there is some way to pressure him to allow it, we will never have a vote. HIs demeanor is we will never have one and we will default and there will be a permanent default because he and the teabaggers will never surrender. And they will never fund anything until the ACA is gone, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid is severely cut or ended. Obama's and nation's only option is to give in to all the demands they will eventually make.

The way I read it "Boner' and the teabaggers are taking us down. I hope I am wrong but it is hard to conclude otherwise. I really do feel that they are punishing everyone because Obama was elected. And the Koch brothers and their allies are behind the shutdown and are calling the shots.

We can banter all we want about why "Boner" AND the teabaggers are deliberately doing this shut down and default, the question is how do we stop them? As far as I am concerned you can protest, write letters, call and do all the parliamentary stuff but they will not budge. And they feel they are not going to lose anything over this mess because GOP voters will support them.

If interest rates go up billionaires who hold our debt will profit wildly. I wonder how much of our debt the Koch's have bought.

[mucifer]

1. On the news they just said that Moody's has stated they are not downgrading

the US because they know we are not going to default.

It was on the radio news wgn.com

[TheMastersNemesis]

2. I Hope That Is Correct. But I Wonder.

[alc]

6. depends on the meaning of "default"

We do not "need" to default on bonds (the "default" that would be a disaster). The payments we can "default" on are

* bonds - real bad but we take in enough each month to service this debt

* SS - we take in enough each month to cover bonds and SS. would piss off seniors but wouldn't upset bondholders. Supreme court has already (in 1961) said SS benefits are not guaranteed so you could argue that it's not a default (SS admin can take additions "special" bonds in payment for SS trust fund bonds and take more bonds for SS revenue so no "default" on SS debt just no payment to seniors)

* Military pay - wouldn't be the first time we stopped payments for a while. no affect on credit rating

* Government contractors - most big contractors will gladly renegotiate and not get paid for a while in order to get much more later

Most of those can be paid with monthly revenue. But there's not much left over for normal operations (all the agencies and employees). We will only default on external debt service if we decide that some operations are more important than paying bondholders - that may happen, but it's not guaranteed. In some ways, showing willingness to service external debt before internal deb (SS) or operations makes US bonds more attractive.

[geek tragedy]

7. One default is no better than the other. nt

[B Calm]

3. The pressure will be Obama not giving in!

[TheMastersNemesis]

4. Even If He Gives In They Will Want So Much Cut That It Will Still Be A Shutdown.

I think it is still a game to humiliate Obama and they will default anyway. They are just flim flamming the country. They want default all along. Rand Paul has been openly saying that default would be a GOOD thing.

[4bucksagallon]

5. No he will start crying and blame the delay on the booze, repent and all will be forgiven.

[BumRushDaShow]

8. The "force" is the "Discharge Petition"

that Pelosi has indicated she will use if necessary (her current one being for the "Clean CR&quot .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/discharge-petition-government-shutdown_n_4044967.html

This requires signatures of 218 members to force any bill being held hostage by the Speaker, to be placed on the floor for a vote. I believe the Senate is also readying a "Clean Debt Ceiling" bill which they could pass (assuming they torpedo any of the tealoons' attempts to block it) that could be sent over to the House to similarly be "discharged" if necessary.

[oldhippie]

10. So I am wondering what is stopping her from doing it?

She will use it if necessary? Well, I think it is necessary. If she has the votes, why not force it now rather than delaying?

[oldhippie]

9. "If interest rates go up billionaires who hold our debt will profit wildly."

If interest rates go up billionaires who hold our debt will profit wildly. I wonder how much of our debt the Koch's have bought.

Hmmmmm, so I guess all my economics profs were mistaken?

Funny, whenever interest rates go up, my bonds (debt) lose value. What am I doing wrong?