Senate needs to call immediate hearings into the PLOT by outside groups to shut down the government

[blm]

that has been revealed.

They need to be brought before the senate to testify about how and why they did it and who they contacted in congress and senate to pull it off.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?_r=0

Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama’s health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.

Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.

“We felt very strongly at the start of this year that the House needed to use the power of the purse,” said one coalition member, Michael A. Needham, who runs Heritage Action for America, the political arm of the Heritage Foundation. “At least at Heritage Action, we felt very strongly from the start that this was a fight that we were going to pick.”

Last week the country witnessed the fallout from that strategy: a standoff that has shuttered much of the federal bureaucracy and unsettled the nation.
>>>>>>

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-republicans-blame-obama-20131006,0,2739790.story

>>>
On Sunday, House Speaker John A. Boehner was acting like a jilted girlfriend in an interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC. Boehner insisted Obama’s refusal to give him a phone call is the reason government offices remain shuttered. Boehner, of course, could end the impasse all by himself simply by allowing a vote on the Senate-passed continuing resolution to fund the government. It would easily get thumbs-up from Democrats and a significant share of Republican House members, but letting that happen would earn Boehner major grief, not only from the radicals in his caucus, but from the rich conservative money men who spearheaded the drive for this showdown.

And that is the highly pertinent fact that Boehner, Bachmann and the rest of the Republicans conveniently fail to mention. As detailed in a Sunday New York Times story, a well-financed cohort of conservative activists have been planning for months to use a government shutdown as a cudgel to cripple the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. Among those behind the effort are, predictably, the Koch brothers, the right-wing billionaire industrialists who, the newspaper reports, gave out $200 million last year to anti-Obamacare groups. Another key leader is a figure from the dark past, Richard Nixon’s former attorney general, Edwin Meese III.

Also pushing the Obamacare battle is Michael A. Needham, who runs the political arm of the conservative Heritage Foundation. Unlike Bachmann and her buddies, Needham did not play coy when asked about what is going on, telling the New York Times, “We felt very strongly from the start that this was a fight that we were going to pick.”
>>>>>>>>

[landolfi]

1. It may be a plot

but it's pretty much ill-conceived and executed, and personally I'm enjoying watching them punch themselves in the face. Though I agree it's about time we put some Repig asses to the fire.

[TheMastersNemesis]

2. If The FBI Can Uncover A Conspiracy Send In The Feds To Arrest Some Of These Billionaires.

Forgot most of them laid off.

[blm]

3. They can call the hearings, put them under oath and subpoena emails.

.

[Llewlladdwr]

4. What exactly is the crime here?

Engaging in politics?

[blm]

6. Not having evidence of a real crime never stopped Issa.

And THAT is why they get months of framing the headlines and news reports while the Dems are left trying to play catch up.

[Llewlladdwr]

8. But what would even be investigated?

It's not a crime for Americans to talk to their elected representatives and even to suggest possible legislation or political strategy. So what if some think tanks talked to some Congressmen and together they came up with a plan to implement a particular political agenda. This is neither unusual nor illegal. What would be the point of congressional hearings?

[blm]

13. There's an appearance of corruption. Even the appearance of corruption gets hearings

and a public airing. The GOP would have called for a hearing by now with far less to go on.

The APPEARANCE of corruption has long been an accepted threshold....but...apparemtly some thinks it only applies to Democrats.

[Llewlladdwr]

15. What's the corruption?

What is the underlying illegal activity that you think needs to be investigated? "I don't like what my opponents are doing" is not sufficient grounds for an investigation or hearings.

[blm]

17. MY turn to ask YOU a question. Would the GOP have called for hearings

by now if the revelations had been about Dems who planned a government shutdown with outside groups and money for many months?

[Llewlladdwr]

20. How in the world would I know that?

I'm not part of the Republican leadership so I have no idea what they might do. And frankly, neither do you.

All of which is besides the point. Nothing about the current situation regarding the shutdown is illegal. Nothing. We may disagree with it but it is not illegal. This talk of arresting democratically elected representatives engaged in legislating because you dislike their political agenda is extremely dangerous and needs to stop.

[blm]

21. How do you know? You don't know what was promised those funding the plan

and because we all know that these things don't fun themselves in an expensive place like DC.

And, based on what I have witnessed over the last 4 years, I absolutely DO know that Issa would have called for a hearing by now. That you need to pretend otherwise is what I find incredible. Where have you been the last 4 years?

Why are YOU so energized on THIS thread and insistent that this doesn't have even an appearance of corruption?

[Llewlladdwr]

25. What funding are you talking about?

Seriously, I would truly like to know.

The reason I'm so energized about this ridiculous "treason and sedition" bullshit is because it sets a very dangerous precedent that will come back and bite the Democrats in the ass.

[blm]

29. I never said treason in my post.

So, pardon me if I doubt your concern.

Early hearings are for the purpose of DISCOVERY. There is enough out there about the money around the Tea Party and the groups manipulating them to warrant hearings based on appearance of corruption.

I'm still laughing at your claim that you couldn't know if the Republicans would hold hearings had the situation been reversed...... as if you just came out of a coma last month.

[Llewlladdwr]

39. Geez, what the hell is it that would be discovered?

I'm serious, what was the underlying criminal act that you think was committed? Because there's nothing at all illegal about talking to your elected representatives, or developing a strategy to implement your political goals, or raising money to do so. Everyone of those things is the very essence of our democracy. You want to have Congressional hearings just to have hearings? What is the "corruption" you keep complaining about? What funding was provided to who that has the appearance of corruption?

[blm]

48. I clearly said the appearance of corruption is enough of a bar

and has been used against Dems for the last two decades. There is certainly enough being reported to call for a hearing.

We don't know the extent of it, but, you certainly are being overly aggressive in your defense of these characters.

I guess you only want the appearance of corruption bar to be used against Democrats. I don't recall you jumping into threads decrying Issa when he was having his constant stream of BS hearings.

[Llewlladdwr]

56. There isn't even an appearance of corruption here though.

blm, like it or not this is politics. Sometimes it's ugly and sometimes people get hurt. Sometimes our opponents act in ways that are unethical but not illegal. Bogus investigations aren't the answer. Crazy theories about arresting sitting Congress folk for sedition aren't the answer. All this sort of talk does is make you look unhinged.

[Samantha]

60. This is not mere politics although it is being made to appear to be

Last edited Tue Oct 8, 2013, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

Our political system is the venue under which their goals are camouflaged and that is the brilliance of it.

Breaking the economy of the United States was a stated goal of Osama Bin Laden. No one will argue that he was anything but a terrorist. But when a government official or officials surreptitiously develop a plan with private citizens to do the same thing, it is just politics. In other words, when a foreign enemy of the United States states this is his goal, he is a terrorist. When a citizen states this is his goal, he is a politician. That does not truly compute because in both instances the government suffers tremendous harm and folds.

I don't think this is mere politics. I believe the originators of the plan want to remake this Country into the image they would like, not necessary what the Constitution requires. Simply look at the fact that the Koch Brothers' father, for instance, helped co-found The John Birch Society. The last time I checked, about a year or so ago, David Koch's name was right there on the membership list. Most thinking people will agree The John Birch Society is an ultra right-wing organization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

"The organization identifies with Christian principles, seeks to limit governmental powers, and opposes wealth redistribution, and economic interventionism. It opposes collectivism, totalitarianism, and communism. It opposes socialism as well, which it asserts is infiltrating US governmental administration. In a 1983 edition of Crossfire, Congressman Larry McDonald (D-Georgia), then its newly appointed president, characterized the society as belonging to the Old Right rather than the New Right.[14]

The society opposed aspects of the 1960s civil rights movement and claimed the movement had communists in important positions. In the latter half of 1965, the JBS produced a flyer entitled "What's Wrong With Civil Rights?", which was used as a newspaper advertisement.[15][16] In the piece, one of the answers was: "For the civil rights movement in the United States, with all of its growing agitation and riots and bitterness, and insidious steps towards the appearance of a civil war, has not been infiltrated by the Communists, as you now frequently hear. It has been deliberately and almost wholly created by the Communists patiently building up to this present stage for more than forty years."[17] The society opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, claiming it violated the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and overstepped individual states' rights to enact laws regarding civil rights. The society opposes "one world government", and it has an immigration reduction view on immigration reform. It opposes the United Nations, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), the Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA), the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA), and other free trade agreements. They argue the U.S. Constitution has been devalued in favor of political and economic globalization, and that this alleged trend is not accidental. It cited the existence of the former Security and Prosperity Partnership as evidence of a push towards a North American Union.[18] Stuart A. Wright has said that their political racism, however, was not inconsistent with the views of either Republican or Democratic mainstream politicians at the time.[19]"

Just a clean reading of these two paragraphs reflect a lot of what Tea Party Republicans believe. It is my personal opinion that elements of The John Birch Society are intertwined with the shut-down currently in effect. It is also my personal opinion that this is not a coincidence but a realization of a long-term goal materializing by some who are pulling the strings of the Tea Party puppets.

Just think about it. How many times have we heard certain elements of the social safety net condemned in derogatory words as if to shame the participants: unemployment benefits, food stamps, medicaid, social security, the Affordable Care Act, just to name a few. These programs are sneered at by people who are opposed to socialism and/or a sharing of the wealth. Can't you still hear Michele Bachmann's words that Obamacare is socialism ringing in your ears?

And while some here are repulsed at the idea of calling what has happened here as anything but mere politics, I believe the proper course is to carefully re-think that conclusion. There are just too many things that suggest it simply is not.

Sam

[blm]

65. Exactly right, S.

.

[JEB]

79. John Birchers used to be ridiculed and marginalized for being the crack pots they are.

Now they are calling the shots. The shutdown and hostage taking by these extremists to implement their radical policies is anything but politics as usual. I'd say it is a coup that is an existential threat to the USA as we know it.

[Samantha]

80. I started to say that it was a silent coup in one of two things I have written lately

but I have taken so much flack, I have decided to make exactly the points I wanted to make without provocative words. So I am so happy to see you took that word and submitted it for all to see. By now, most people here have seen or heard Senator Sanders comments on the Koch Brothers' involvement in the shutdown. Most have heard President Obama's speech in which he referenced the fact that many of these Tea Party representatives are making decisions supported by their donors as opposed to listening to the voices of those they represent. Actually, he said words to the effect, "some of these Republicans accept large donations from wealthy extremists and we don't know what their agenda is - you guys know this, you write about them . They are afraid to not do what they want. They are not afraid of a challenger to their left since they live in gerrymandered districts. They are afraid of a Tea Party challenger in the primary." (also all paraphrased).

There are just too many things coming together at this one intersection to suggest that what is happening now is simply political and well within each representative's right to vote according to his or her political preference. They (meaning the minority in the House who are Tea Party ultra-conservatives) are voting as orchestrated by people who are associated with the John Birch Society. If this is not enough to convince people to stand up and do something about it, even if that something is only contacting their representatives, nothing will. So the rest of us must speak much more passionately.

Sam

[blm]

66. Baloney - WHERE were you when Issa rushed hearings

on far less?

Keeping your powder dry?

[KT2000]

33. you mean like impeachment

that the republicans have used and threaten to use on Obama regularly

[Llewlladdwr]

35. Have any impeachment hearings been held? nt

[Southside]

44. Guys like Issa do these investigations for fun

Blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

Who are these three dozen conservative groups? Were any of these groups 501(c)3 groups? Were any of these groups soliciting donations with the use of those funds directed to the political purposes of defending Obamacare? If so those groups are fair game for investigation in my opinion. Tea party 501(c)3 organizations are fair game.

This all sounds like a coordinated plan between the tea party organizations and the republican leaders who are doing their bidding. The influence of these outside groups on the strategy, coordination and votes of republicans in congress strikes me as way too dominate to not raise red flags of impropriety.

It seems our side refrains from using the power of investigations. Issa based solely off Fox News lies, commenced probes and investigations into liberal groups. The FBI has the power to start investigations into quid pro quo gov't corruption as they did in ABSCAM scandals. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.



Examples:
"Issa Demands ACORN Fraud Probe Over Occupy Wall Street" that was a witch hunt, without any supporting facts. What was the crime a story from Fox News full of lives.

The House expelled James Traficant after he was convicted of receiving favors, gifts and money in return for performing official acts on behalf of the donors.

From Wikipedia:
In 1978...The FBI formed Abdul Enterprises, Ltd., FBI employees posed as Karim Abdul Rahman... The agents posing as Rahman offered the officials money in return for political favors.

[Llewlladdwr]

45. So, you believe it to be illegal for Americans to raise money for political purposes?

Or is it the collusion between citizens and their elected representatives that you find disturbing? Would you find similar "coordination" between elected Democrats and liberal think tanks and organizations problematic? There is absolutely nothing illegal about opposing the PPACA or working with one's elected representatives to change or even overturn the law. While we may not like it the current situation in Congress breaks no laws. Bullshit magical thinking about sending the police to arrest Senators and Representatives for following the will of their constituents is just that, bullshit.

[Southside]

49. I want transparency. I want these 3 dozen groups, who caused this shutdown out in the open.

-First step, we find out if any 501(c)3 tea parties are involved and we defund them! Rip them to shreds. sick the hounds on them like they did ACORN.
-Second, I'm thinking similar to the Rangel investigations we look at the charities these GOP leaders are affiliated with see if there is impropriety there, sick the hounds on them like they did Rangel.

The real goal is find information on the players, the meetings, understand how much coordination is involved to expose this secret society beyond the Heritage Foundation's political arm. If this shutdown was planned by outside groups and carried out by GOP leaders everyone should know. They should not be allowed to pin this on Obama. Expose the culprits. The way they exposed countrywide mortgage paying off politicians. I just want the facts.

[blm]

50. Where was your heightened sense of 'concern' when Issa was

holding his continuous string of hearings based on so much less? You didn't pop in and to those threads concerned about Issa's use of hearings for his fishing expeditions.

I guess you only get exercised when hearings are being suggested by Democrats who want to dig deeper into the REAL causes of this shut down of our government and possible default of the nation's credit. Nothing REALLY important to the wellbeing of the nation like did ACORN fire the kids who turned in bad voter registrations.

[Southside]

58. Acorn self-reported the employees

ACORN did the right thing by self reporting the 12 to 14 employees who submitted fraudulent voter registrations in Florida. I'm pretty certain that did not come up in the news, but that is the truth. GOP did a great job of assassinating that group. Looks like the tea party stole many of their grassroots tactics. Now they are the crazy groups hellbent on shutting down the government.

Personally I registered on the Democratic Underground during the last presidential election simply to Rec the wonderful and enlightening posts I found here. Wanted a way to say thanks. I'm posting now because I am worried about Social Security, Head Start, caring for the disabled, caring for veterans and other people in need. I worry this shutdown and failure to raise the debt ceiling are going to affect people in need and democratic underground gives me a place to vent and learn about a scary situation that feels hopelessly out of control. Honestly I prefer to just read and admire all of you guys. I think I will go back to doing that.

[blm]

64. Stick around - we need reasonable voices like yours.

You 'get' it.

[Southside]

75. Thanks, I've lurked on republicans sites too

I am exaggerating, but I rarely see dissenting opinions, except on who represents the ideal conservative candidate and those become shouting matches. Over here is way different. Forgive me for lurking on republican sites, but I'm always trying to understand their point of view, but I'm slowly giving up trying because a lot of it has to do with restoring America to a time where I never want to go.

Thanks again for making me feel welcome. It is fun over here. I've spent 13 years as a moderate working in liberal environments, I think I might be a liberal now haha.

Take care

[DeSwiss]

77. So we've stooped to the car thief's standards??? :-/ n/t

[blm]

81. No. Government was shutdown - people deserve hearings to fully understand why and

if it turns out to be the result of collusion that fringes on criminality, well, let the chips fall where they may.

[CreekDog]

57. The Senate is not limited to investigating crimes

Of course it is the Senate's role to investigate things that can harm the country, be it climate change or efforts to shut down the government by private groups.

[blm]

74. And why the reason for the 'location' to be so secret still?

Perhaps the location would be deemed illegal?

[NuclearDem]

5. There were 14 Wisconsin state senators who refused to appear to vote for a right to work law.

A bunch of Indiana Democrats did the same thing too.

Arrest them for seditious conspiracy too, or just the Tea Partiers?

[blm]

7. Apples and oranges.

Besides, if that is how you want to play it......If this were reversed, you could be damn certain that Issa would have called a hearing by now even if he only heard a shaky rumor that a Dem shutdown had been planned for a long time.

[NuclearDem]

11. So because the GOP would've thrown around "sedition" and "treason", we have to do the same?

Gotcha. Thought we we as liberals were supposed to be opposed to fascist police state rhetoric and concepts, but if the GOP would have done it, I guess it's alright.

[blm]

14. Doesn't have to be about sedition or treason unless it is uncovered.

For now, corruption should be suffice. GOP held hearings into ACORN based ONLY on appearances of some bad intent and succeeded in getting rid of ACORN based on NOTHING....because nothing they charged held up under scrutiny.

[NuclearDem]

16. Corruption investigations I'm absolutely behind.

I mean, they probably won't happen because most congressmen Republican and Democrat are bought and paid for, often by the same people, but if it would happen, it would be one of the best things for us at this point.

[blm]

18. Of course, the expected answer. You managed to smear both over something that

ONLY the GOP groups plotted.

[NuclearDem]

19. Corruption investigations over just the shutdown?

Yeah, that'll certainly focus on the GOP.

But a full accounting of Congressional corruption wouldn't likely spare some of the more entrenched Democrats, like DiFi.

Hence why I said the investigations wouldn't happen. Exposing Tea Party corruption would undoubtedly expose corruption everywhere else, and no one who's been taking money from Big Pharma or the MIC would want to be caught in that.

[blm]

22. That's absurd. You're REACHING to get your hits against Dems.

This hearing would be who wanted the government shutdown and why and how the plan to shutdown the government was also funded by outside groups. What were they promised in exchange?

This thread got your attention and you saw a chance to take potshots that had nothing to do with the plan to shut down the government.

IMO, you're just one disconnect after another. I don't think you're here to even discuss the GOP's role in planning this shut down.

[NuclearDem]

24. You're not reading what I'm saying.

Yes, the GOP is responsible for the shutdown.

Yes, there is likely corruption involved.

Yes, investigations would likely expose that.

And yes, plenty of Congressmen of both parties are corrupt, and the chance that an investigation would expose their misdeeds is a deterrent to such an investigation occurring.

I don't know how I can possibly make it any easier to understand. This isn't a cheap shot at the Dems or attempting to blame them for the shutdown, but just facing the reality that people with a D after their name are likely corrupt too.

Our party doesn't have the stones to go after blatant and obvious war crimes and financial criminality, so what makes you think they'd go after corruption in their backyard?

[blm]

38. Can't you make your own thread where you can make

yourself heard about the subjects you want to discuss today?

[bhikkhu]

9. I wonder if they are actually financially invested in the results of a shutdown

...and more seriously, in the results of a government default. It should be very easy to do, if one knows what steps and what schedule has been privately agreed upon, to makes futures bets based on the predictable reactions of the markets here and globally. I can't think of any other reason wealthy people would be involved, but it would be remarkably similar to treason.

[blm]

10. Good point. There are so many levels that deserve official attention.

.

[Llewlladdwr]

12. In what way would this be "remarkably similar to treason"?

Treason is defined in Article Three of the US Constitution thusly: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

How does the current situation in Congress meet this definition?

[blm]

23. In what way do you think you're derailing this thread?

You don't see anything wrong with what the GOP did, not even one little whiff of corruption - fine - then you have no need to be concerned.

[Llewlladdwr]

26. I'm concerned because what you want to do to the GOP...

could very easily be done to the Democrats too.....

[blm]

31. Baloney. Pure baloney. I'm not buying your concern.

Interesting that you're so agitated over this.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

63. Imagine the anti-war movement being tried for giving "aid and comfort to the enemy"

[bhikkhu]

36. By becoming effectively and enemy of the state

for profit.

[Llewlladdwr]

41. What profit?

Who is profiting?

[bhikkhu]

42. My original supposition was a question

If you read it, it was wondering how many of the people involved in organizing the shut-down were also invested in betting on the results of the shutdown. Betting can be in the form of "shorting the market", or in the hedge fund markets, or otherwise.

From the outside, we can say "maybe there will be a problem, maybe we should sell our stock". Timing and predicting the market is very difficult. From the inside they could say - "there will be a problem, beginning on this date, and we'll hold off on any solution until the market drops to exactly this point". Timing and predicting the markets is easy if one's own actions are the immediate cause. With perfect knowledge, the money comes easily, and then its a win-win situation for them, whether the political side works out or not..

I suppose you could say that's paranoid, and the people involved are sincere politicians who wouldn't dream of such things.

[Llewlladdwr]

43. It seems like an awful convoluted way to make money.

There are an incredibly large number of moving pieces in such a scheme. I don't see how any group could have "perfect knowledge" in such a situation.

[blm]

51. You sure seem focused on this not happening.

Do't recall your concern here during Issa's hearings.

[bhikkhu]

52. Boehner knows what he planned to do, as do the other republican congressmen

They have "perfect knowledge", as their actions depend not on the actions of other people, but on their own decisions. They are able to create the conditions for a shut down, create the shut down itself, and then decide the moment when the shut down ends. If the moment is "now", Boehner could call a vote and everyone would be back to work tomorrow. That's not convoluted at all.

The reaction of the markets is a bit unpredictable, but if the decision is timed to coincide with a desired market condition, then all they have to do is wait for the damage to reach a predetermined point, end the shut down, and then comes the rally. After every previous crisis (and this has been rehearsed three times recently) the markets have rallied, and positioning oneself to gain from a decline, then gain again from a rally is simple, if you control the timing of both events.

Again, perhaps I'm just the suspicious sort, but why wouldn't they plan to profit from this monetarily if any political gains are highly unlikely?

[Llewlladdwr]

59. But they don't have control of the situation...

Unless you're saying the entire Congress is in on it. There could be no guarantee of a Government shutdown with Dem collusion.

[bhikkhu]

70. When Boehner calls a vote, it passes and the shut down ends

If he doesn't call a vote, it can't pass and the shut down continues. That's complete control.

[HooptieWagon]

27. Its ironic Heritage Foundation is trying to sabotage it...

...since it was their creation back in the 90s.

[gopiscrap]

28. I agree

[arthritisR_US]

30. Good luck getting Isa to investigate anything of

substance.

[blm]

34. Issa can't control Senate hearings.

.

[arthritisR_US]

47. What hearings have they conducted? n/t

[blm]

53. None on this yet.

I want someone to say Enough and call these characters to testify under oath.

[arthritisR_US]

54. I would love it, I just don't have any faith that it

would happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. sedition

n
1. speech or behaviour directed against the peace of a state
2. (Law) an offence that tends to undermine the authority of a state
3. (Law) an incitement to public disorder
4. Archaic revolt
[from Latin sēditiō discord, from sēd- apart + itiō a going, from īre to go]
seditionary n & adj

[Puzzledtraveller]

37. there is no plot, just paranoid conspiracy theorists.

[Whisp]

40. that's head in sand silly. n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

46. Despicable tea

[applegrove]

55. This is just like the democracy movement

in Iran. Obama needs to not get involved in the Koch question. Let the truth sink into american hearts and minds on its own. I sure do wish the MSM would question GOPers about how they feel about the Koch brothers controlling all. If Obama brings up the topic it will not be listened to by the rightwingers who need to hear it.

[Cha]

61. That sounds like it would be a

smart thing to do.

thanks blm

[Cha]

62. From Senator Bernie Sanders..

Sen. Sanders: KOCH Brothers PLOTTED SHUTDOWN 'DAY AFTER OBAMA RE-ELECTED'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023804636

[blm]

67. This needs to be pursued.

Vermonters?

[Octafish]

68. Ed Meese, the Racist

[randome]

69. Disagree. Is it against the law to 'plot' with legislators to vote the way you want?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[blm]

72. Hearings should be held to discover the depth of plot that shut down government

and then to follow it up with a default on the nation's debt.

What makes you think Issa would give a pass on a hearing with THIS much 'appearance' of corruption if the roles were reversed?

You think GOP cared that weren't any actual laws broken by ACORN that were presented in those hearings? They used it to fish and to imply.

There is far more here than the GOP had for their stream of hearings.

[Coyotl]

71. The location is secret because it was an illegal act to use a government facility for this meeting!

That is a good place to begin the investigation.

[blm]

73. GREAT!!!!

.

[Agnosticsherbet]

76. I didn't support what was done with Occupy....

I don't support bogus investigations of Americans because they believe in an ideology different from my own.

i advocate an active electorate so we can keep as many intellectually challenged candidates supported by believers in fantasy history out of elected office as possible.

[DeSwiss]

78. ....

''Everybody who has ever worked for a corporation knows that corporations conspire all the time. Politicians conspire all the time, pot-dealers conspire not to get caught by the narcs, the world is full of conspiracies. Conspiracy is natural primate behavior.''
~Robert Anton Wilson

[malaise]

82. Jon Stewart played the proof last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023813441