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Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:04 PM Oct 2013

Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown over contraceptives

Catholic Bishops To House: Shut Down The Government Unless We Get Our Way On Birth Control
BY IAN MILLHISER ON OCTOBER 7, 2013 AT 2:17 PM

One week before House Republicans shut down the government in an effort to force President Obama to enact many of their preferred policies, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops wrote House members requesting that the government be shut down — and potentially that the nation be forced into default — unless religious employers were given a special right to deny birth control coverage to their employees. As Adele Stan reports, a letter signed by Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston and Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore told lawmakers that, “[w]e have already urged you to enact the Health Care Conscience Rights Act (H.R. 940/S. 1204). As Congress considers a Continuing Resolution and debt ceiling bill in the days to come, we reaffirm the vital importance of incorporating the policy of this bill into such ‘must-pass’ legislation.”

The “Health Care Conscience Rights Act” permits religious employers to exclude any “item or service to which [they have] a moral or religious objection” from the health insurance package offered to employees.

Shortly after the Obama Administration announced rules requiring most employers to provide birth control to their employees, the Bishops rebelled, offering an unusually expansive reading of the Constitution and of a federal religious liberty law to claim that these rules are invalid. Their letter demanding a shut down unless they get their way on birth control, however, is a major escalation from their previous position. It is one thing to request a carve out from a law you do not want to follow while the rest of the nation continues its business around you, but it’s another thing altogether to demand that the government shut down because you are unhappy with the current state of the law. In this regard, the Bishops’ tactic is identical to that of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), who insisted on a shut down unless he got his way on health care.

Except that, unlike Ted Cruz, the Bishops speak on behalf of a church that claims that government has a responsibility to “protect human life and dignity, care for poor and vulnerable people at home and abroad, and advance the universal common good.” Because of the government shutdown, mothers and young children risk losing their benefits under the Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) nutrition program. Many Head Start programs halted educational services to low-income children. And federal funds are shut off to many domestic violence programs.


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/07/2743471/catholic-bishops-to-house-shut-down-the-government-unless-we-get-our-way-on-birth-control/

This is why we need separation of church and state.
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Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown over contraceptives (Original Post) Bjorn Against Oct 2013 OP
When do they lose their tax exemption? arthritisR_US Oct 2013 #1
sounds like an item worth shutting the govt down over. nt Ilsa Oct 2013 #3
Tax them 80 %...... russspeakeasy Oct 2013 #2
jeez...how sick is that? stillcool Oct 2013 #4
Does this surprise you? MattBaggins Oct 2013 #13
it does...I am used to... stillcool Oct 2013 #22
If they're going to fuck as all, they least they can do is use protection. NuclearDem Oct 2013 #5
This is the kind of crap that makes so many of us despise this church Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #6
+infinity sammytko Oct 2013 #8
Don't forget the Crusades. rug Oct 2013 #9
There is plenty of modern-day crap this bunch of medieval creeps is pulling Arugula Latte Oct 2013 #11
Read the letter they sent. rug Oct 2013 #12
I will never stand for being smeared as a "bigot" for calling out this vile institution. Dawson Leery Oct 2013 #26
That's an overwrought headline. They didn't call for a shutdown. rug Oct 2013 #7
They specifically called for it to be tied to "must pass" legislation Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #14
Which is not the same as calling for a shutdown. rug Oct 2013 #15
When the GOP attached The Obamacare delay to must pass legislation it triggered the shut down Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #17
The GOP wants the ACA stopped. Period. rug Oct 2013 #18
They asked to tie their "conscience exemption" most the country opposes to must pass legislation Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #21
Yes they did and that request will fail in the trash to join most of their other requests. rug Oct 2013 #23
Must pass legislation means the budget, it means the debt ceiling Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #24
It didn't say a word about the debt ceiling, any more than it said a word about the shutdown. rug Oct 2013 #25
Again it said MUST PASS legislation, that means either budget, debt ceiling or both Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #28
Words do matter. And those words were not used. rug Oct 2013 #29
Yes they were used, look at the very first link you provided me Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #30
And? Here's your headline: "Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown" rug Oct 2013 #34
So I suppose you are going to tell me the GOP Congress members are not calling for shutdown either Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #39
Accuracy matters, too. randome Oct 2013 #31
Yes accuracy does matter and Rug's own link shows that he is wrong Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #33
Your own headline shows that you are wrong. rug Oct 2013 #35
No it does not, we are in this shutdown because of policy tied to the continued resolution Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #37
"Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown". That's the headline you wrote. rug Oct 2013 #38
Do you think the teabaggers pushing a dirty CR support a shutdown? Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #40
Say what you want about the RCC, it is far from the Tea Party. rug Oct 2013 #41
They reached out to the Tea Party to push a dirty resolution Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #42
So, are you moving back from shutdown? rug Oct 2013 #43
Hell no I'm not moving back, supporting a dirty CR is supporting the shut down Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #44
For one thing, they were seeking a specific exemption. rug Oct 2013 #45
Maybe the Republicans would take it, it does not change the fact that the bishops pushed a dirty CR Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #46
Then you'd be better off using their actual words, not yours. rug Oct 2013 #47
Sorry, I am not obligated to spin things the way they want me to spin them Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #48
I guess you're not obligated to write accurate headlines either. rug Oct 2013 #50
As I said it is my opinion, this is a discussion site opinions are welcome here Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #51
Well, I'm glad we've established that you headline is, in the end, simply your opinion. rug Oct 2013 #53
It is an opinion based on concrete facts. Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #54
There's definitely concrete involed. rug Oct 2013 #59
Did they or did they not ask for contraceptives to be tied to the debt ceiling? Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #64
No, Rug's link shows that he is correct. Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #69
The letter clearly stated that they wanted contraceptives tied to the CR and debt ceiling Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #73
Yes, the letter said that Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #74
The letter of the 26th talks about the debt ceiling in the same sentence muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #32
While you review #34, I'll ask you when you found the Gospels a good source for political science. rug Oct 2013 #36
Oh dear, rug, your defence of the RC bishops and the shutdown isn't looking good on DU, is it? muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #60
Oh, the subthread in which the OP stated the headline is his opinion, not fact? rug Oct 2013 #65
I stated it was an opinion based on concrete fact, I NEVER claimed it was not based on fact. Bjorn Against Oct 2013 #67
No, it is an opinion based on a single phrase, "must pass legislation" Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #81
Well they ARE ACTIVELY LOBBYING and thus forfeit tax exempt status elehhhhna Oct 2013 #57
The OP makes the false claim that the USCCB called for the shutdown. rug Oct 2013 #58
Thanks for pointing it out MFrohike Oct 2013 #19
Well, it's a damn accurate paraphrase. rug Oct 2013 #20
How about this for a headline, these Bishops want to tie their silly superstitions... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #61
How about this? Poster sees political crisis as a religious crisis. rug Oct 2013 #66
Or how about this? Thinkprogress writer lies about letter from Catholic bishops. Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #70
Maybe not. AngryOldDem Oct 2013 #63
That group is allowed wayyyyyyy too much power MattBaggins Oct 2013 #10
But don't forget- Mark Meadows (R-NC) is the Architect of the current shutdown plan Tx4obama Oct 2013 #16
Is it sedition yet?? kestrel91316 Oct 2013 #27
American bishops still going their own way. Peregrine Took Oct 2013 #49
What would Pope Francis say? Sanity Claws Oct 2013 #52
What is needed is for the Federal government to revoke the tax-exempt status for the entire freakin' indepat Oct 2013 #55
Given that the Catholic Church is NOT "formeting rebellion" against the United States Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #71
So urging a governmental shutdown is aok if what you want can't be extorted? indepat Oct 2013 #75
Except that they are NOT "urging a government shutdown" Fortinbras Armstrong Oct 2013 #79
Thanks for clarifying this issue indepat Oct 2013 #83
Then they might as well shut down Catholic churches as well Zambero Oct 2013 #56
So they're allowed to shut down the Federal Government... Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #62
These Bishops need to go read that interveiw by the Pope kydo Oct 2013 #68
Maybe they don't think he's serious. bklyncowgirl Oct 2013 #72
Tax 'em! nt City Lights Oct 2013 #76
My friend is a pharamacist who is Catholic fitman Oct 2013 #77
Blowback...incessent demands for shutting government by every fringe idea under the sun. libdem4life Oct 2013 #78
I read the letter that Rug posted again. AngryOldDem Oct 2013 #80
Who the hell do they think they are?! fucking nose outta Cha Oct 2013 #82
Why would anybody give a flying rat's ass what these shitstains have to say? MindPilot Oct 2013 #84

MattBaggins

(7,904 posts)
13. Does this surprise you?
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:21 PM
Oct 2013

Remember that farce of a hearing when those idiot bishops and a cabal of other men, were the only ones invited to discuss women's health?

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
22. it does...I am used to...
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:49 PM
Oct 2013

Different religious figures attempts at influencing elections....but a group of Catholic bishops trying to shut down the government? For some reason I thought the catholic church was a little more covert with their attempts at applying influence. Perhaps that was the Catholic Church of my youth.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
6. This is the kind of crap that makes so many of us despise this church
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:16 PM
Oct 2013

and then we are called "religious bigots" because we don't just smile and nod and go along with this vile institution and we don't pee ourselves for joy because the new pope washed somebody's feet and isn't quite as scary and draconian as the last one.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
11. There is plenty of modern-day crap this bunch of medieval creeps is pulling
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:20 PM
Oct 2013

to keep my mind occupied, thank you. Case in point right here in the OP.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
14. They specifically called for it to be tied to "must pass" legislation
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:21 PM
Oct 2013

They were endorsing the same type of hostage taking the GOP is doing. I guess you could argue that they were really calling for Democrats to cave and give them what they want before the shut down happens, but if they tie their provision to must pass legislation and that legislation does not pass it results in a shut down. They are taking the same position as the GOP in attaching controversial policy positions to must pass legislation, I think that makes it entirely accurate to say they were calling for shut down.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
15. Which is not the same as calling for a shutdown.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:26 PM
Oct 2013

The endorsement of hostage taking is entirely in the mind of the writer.

Read this letter:

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/federal-budget/upload/letters-to-congress-shutdown-2013-09-30.pdf

You know, I really don't mind reflexive Catholic-bashing but I despise clumsy Catholic-bashing.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
17. When the GOP attached The Obamacare delay to must pass legislation it triggered the shut down
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:34 PM
Oct 2013

The Catholic bishops are doing the exact same thing, they asked for their anti-choice legislation to be attached to a bill they knew would result in a government shut down if it did not pass. You can dismiss this fact as "Catholic bashing" but it is a fact, the Catholic bishops asked the GOP to include their anti-choice bill into the ransom demands.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
18. The GOP wants the ACA stopped. Period.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:39 PM
Oct 2013

If you think the GOP wants to stop it because of contraception, you're naïve.

The RCC does not oppose it. It wants a conscience exemption on contraception and abortion.

Like it or not like it, they're two different things. To say otherwise is patently dishonest.

And I'm not dismissing the Catholic bashing at all. I'm describing it.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
21. They asked to tie their "conscience exemption" most the country opposes to must pass legislation
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:47 PM
Oct 2013

Whether or not they oppose Obamacare is not the issue here, the issue is they asked for their anti-choice legislation that they know does not have the votes to pass through legitimate means to a must pass bill. It is patently dishonest to deny that what they were recommending an action that would result in a shut down of government if they did not get their way.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. Yes they did and that request will fail in the trash to join most of their other requests.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:51 PM
Oct 2013

It's been like that since before Griswold.

And they will continue to ask for "must pass" legislation. That's what the USCCB does.

But to put these perennial requests at the feet of the shutdown is absurd. Patently absurd.

You haven't said, but why do you think the September 30 letter was sent?

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
24. Must pass legislation means the budget, it means the debt ceiling
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:04 PM
Oct 2013

"Must Pass" legislation means bills that absolutely must pass in order for the government to function, the vast majority of legislation is not "must pass" legislation. Must pass legislation are bills that need to pass to avoid a government shut down.

Their September 26th letter was the letter that called for their anti-choice legislation to be tied to must pass legislation, the September 30th letter did not need to specifically call for that because the GOP had already added it to their list of ransom demands. Nowhere in that September 30th letter do they suggest that they have any problem with the ransom demands of course, but they do end their letter with a call for a budget that "promotes human life" which appears to be a coded thank you to the GOP for including the anti-choice poison pill.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
25. It didn't say a word about the debt ceiling, any more than it said a word about the shutdown.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:08 PM
Oct 2013

You're squeezing into a suit that doesn't fit.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
28. Again it said MUST PASS legislation, that means either budget, debt ceiling or both
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:16 PM
Oct 2013

The words "must pass" can not be ignored because those words have a very important meaning, must pass legislation results in a shutdown of the government if it does not pass. It does not matter whether they specifically used the word shutdown or not because it is a simple fact that failure to pass the bill results in a shutdown and the Bishops were no doubt aware of this fact.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
29. Words do matter. And those words were not used.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:18 PM
Oct 2013

Unless, of course, you're more concerned about the RCC than the ACA.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
30. Yes they were used, look at the very first link you provided me
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:27 PM
Oct 2013

Read the September 26th letter you linked to earlier because contrary to what you claimed earlier it does specifically mention the debt ceiling bill.

As Congress considers a continued resolution and debt ceiling bill in the days to come, we reaffirm the vital importance of incorporating the policy of this bill into such "must-pass" legislation.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
34. And? Here's your headline: "Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown"
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:32 PM
Oct 2013

It's inaccurate. Likely deliberately so.

You know, I hope you appreciate the damage that false diviseness causes.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
39. So I suppose you are going to tell me the GOP Congress members are not calling for shutdown either
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:41 PM
Oct 2013

Most the GOP members of Congress also insist that they don't really want a shut down they just want to negotiate. The truth is however that those GOP members of Congress who pushed the dirty resolution support a shutdown, and the bishops who also pushed for a dirty resolution that does not have the votes to pass on its own also took an action that is supportive of a shutdown.

You are the one who posted inaccurate information not me. You claimed they never mentioned the debt ceiling when your own link shows they clearly did.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
31. Accuracy matters, too.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:27 PM
Oct 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"
[/center][/font][hr]

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
33. Yes accuracy does matter and Rug's own link shows that he is wrong
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:31 PM
Oct 2013

Rug claims that the debt ceiling was never mentioned by the bishops but read the very first link that he posted, it goes to a letter from the Catholic bishops which specifically mentions the continued resolution and debt ceiling bill. Rug's own link proves him wrong.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
37. No it does not, we are in this shutdown because of policy tied to the continued resolution
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:36 PM
Oct 2013

Your own link shows the bishops asking for their policy issue to be tied to the continued resolution, it is in your own link.

When failure to pass a continued resolution results in shut down and the bishops knew such a resolution would very likely result in a shut down then it is more than fair to say they supported the shutdown.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
38. "Catholic Bishops wrote letter to GOP calling for shutdown". That's the headline you wrote.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:39 PM
Oct 2013
When failure to pass a continued resolution results in shut down and the bishops knew such a resolution would very likely result in a shut down then it is more than fair to say they supported the shutdown.


That's a contorted leap of logic over imaginary assumptions that lands in a bucket labeled bullshit.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
40. Do you think the teabaggers pushing a dirty CR support a shutdown?
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:43 PM
Oct 2013

My logic for saying the bishops support a shutdown is exactly the same as my logic for saying the teabaggers support a shutdown.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
41. Say what you want about the RCC, it is far from the Tea Party.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:50 PM
Oct 2013

That's the fundamental flaw in your assumption.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
42. They reached out to the Tea Party to push a dirty resolution
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:53 PM
Oct 2013

That letter you posted is a direct example of them encouraging the Teabaggers to move forward pushing a dirty CR.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
44. Hell no I'm not moving back, supporting a dirty CR is supporting the shut down
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:57 PM
Oct 2013

Are you moving back from claiming they never mentioned the debt ceiling?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
45. For one thing, they were seeking a specific exemption.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:02 PM
Oct 2013

The republicans by contrast are seeking the gutting of the ACA.

That is what they republicans are seeking in a CR. It is not what the RCC is seeking.

If there is a compromise on the ACA but not on contraception, do you think the republicans will hesitate for a second before taking it?


Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
46. Maybe the Republicans would take it, it does not change the fact that the bishops pushed a dirty CR
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:09 PM
Oct 2013

Maybe the Republicans are pushing more evil shit than the bishops are, but that does not make the bishops right. They have no business tying contraceptives into a must pass CR or debt ceiling bill. The church's position on contraceptives is opposed by the vast majority of the country, to try and force such a shitty law on people by tying it to a bill that must pass in order to keep the government open is total bullshit and the bishops should be called out for it.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
48. Sorry, I am not obligated to spin things the way they want me to spin them
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:14 PM
Oct 2013

I did use their words when I quoted the link you provided me which proved you wrong in showing that they did in fact tie this to the debt ceiling.

I am not going to stop using the word shutdown however because my opinion is that supporting a dirty CR is supporting a shutdown. I am entitled to that opinion even if you or the Catholic Bishops wish I would put a nicer spin on it.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
50. I guess you're not obligated to write accurate headlines either.
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:19 PM
Oct 2013

Maybe next time you should just type a big bold OPINION in the header so people are forewarned.

I haven't seen so much earnest spinning since I went to the spider zoo.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
51. As I said it is my opinion, this is a discussion site opinions are welcome here
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:25 PM
Oct 2013

Once I start seeing you put OPINION in all caps every time that you express an opinion then I might take you seriously, but don't think I am going to label all my opinions when you don't even do so yourself.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
69. No, Rug's link shows that he is correct.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 06:34 AM
Oct 2013

The bishops did not call for a shutdown, and the writer of the story you quote is simply lying. At least, he is reading something into the letter that simply is not there.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
73. The letter clearly stated that they wanted contraceptives tied to the CR and debt ceiling
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 07:50 AM
Oct 2013

Rug claimed they never mentioned the debt ceiling, this is completely false.

Pushing a dirty CR is what resulted in the shutdown and it was well known that such a thing would result in a shutdown, the bishops encouraged the Teabaggers to push a dirty CR well knowing that this could result in shutdown. The headline is accurate.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
32. The letter of the 26th talks about the debt ceiling in the same sentence
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 08:30 PM
Oct 2013

"As Congress considers a Continuing Resolution and debt ceiling bill in the days to come, we reaffirm the vital importance of incorporating the policy of this bill into such “must-pass” legislation."

The letter of the 30th is just a classic Peter-imitating ("Jesus? No, never heard of the guy - is that a cock I can hear?&quot attempt at an alibi, "I never asked you to use a continuing resolution to hold the budget hostage, it might do something nasty to the poor, who we've jsut remembered we're meant to care about".

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
60. Oh dear, rug, your defence of the RC bishops and the shutdown isn't looking good on DU, is it?
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 04:26 AM
Oct 2013

Sorry you got so badly burnt in the sub-thread above. It must hurt.

I find the Gospels a good source for pointing out the failings of the Roman Catholic bishops. In this case, comparing the current lot to the very first one, supposedly. If you think we're discussing political science, will you join me in calling for the removal of all religious tax advantages for the RC church in the USA, for blatantly interfering in politics?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
65. Oh, the subthread in which the OP stated the headline is his opinion, not fact?
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 08:07 AM
Oct 2013

I must decline your invitation because, were I to join you, your misunderstanding of the American IRC might wear off.

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
67. I stated it was an opinion based on concrete fact, I NEVER claimed it was not based on fact.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 08:33 AM
Oct 2013

And you still have not answered my question.

Did they or did they not ask for their policy on contraceptives to be tied to the debt ceiling?

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
81. No, it is an opinion based on a single phrase, "must pass legislation"
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:52 AM
Oct 2013

Which, for some unknown reason, you assume means "shut the government down". Did you read the letter? it says NOTHING about shutting the government down.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
58. The OP makes the false claim that the USCCB called for the shutdown.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 12:33 AM
Oct 2013

To the extent that its tax exempt status is relevant, the letter it did write is within the IRC.

Eh?

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)
19. Thanks for pointing it out
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:43 PM
Oct 2013

That letter is a farce and clearly represents the neuroses of sex-obsessed old men*, but it doesn't call for a shutdown.

*I'm paraphrasing the pope in his recent interview with the Jesuit magazine in Rome (and quoting myself).

 

Humanist_Activist

(7,670 posts)
61. How about this for a headline, these Bishops want to tie their silly superstitions...
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:15 AM
Oct 2013

to legislation that is required for the stability of the economy, government aid to the poor, etc.

There is that "fair" enough for you, the fact that you defend these atrocious, amoral...no scratch that, it doesn't surprise me, it just depresses me, you value your church more than the lives and livelihood of other people, its just....I have no more words.

AngryOldDem

(14,061 posts)
63. Maybe not.
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 06:43 AM
Oct 2013

But they have to know that what they are asking for can, ultimately, shut the government down. It is just one more ultimatum in a crisis chock-full of them.

Both O'Malley and Lori should be fully aware of the consequences of any kind of shutdown to the average American -- who is rapidly becoming the average **poor** American. But everybody wants their own pony here, and for the Church, this is it.

And if the hierarchy gets involved to this degree in political policy formation -- time once more to reassess the tax-exempt status.

MattBaggins

(7,904 posts)
10. That group is allowed wayyyyyyy too much power
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:19 PM
Oct 2013

I dream of the day we have a President who tell them to fuck off.

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
16. But don't forget- Mark Meadows (R-NC) is the Architect of the current shutdown plan
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 07:27 PM
Oct 2013


Mark Meadows (R-NC) is the Architect of the current shutdown plan

Article here: http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/27/politics/house-tea-party/


Sanity Claws

(21,852 posts)
52. What would Pope Francis say?
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:25 PM
Oct 2013

This is hardly consistent with the new Pope's message. Sending this to the Pope may have greater results than sending this to the IRS.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
55. What is needed is for the Federal government to revoke the tax-exempt status for the entire freakin'
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 09:55 PM
Oct 2013

Catholic Church in the United States and any other church that likewise foments rebellion against the United States. Fugg 'em, fugg 'em, fugg 'em all, the long and short and the tall who incite rebellion against the United States.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
71. Given that the Catholic Church is NOT "formeting rebellion" against the United States
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 06:39 AM
Oct 2013

Your comment is meaningless.

Saying "We think this piece of legislation must be passed" -- which is what they said -- comes under the First Amendment's "petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Or do you believe in First Amendment rights only when you agree with what is being said?

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
79. Except that they are NOT "urging a government shutdown"
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:23 AM
Oct 2013

Did you read the letter?

Incidentally, I am no supporter whatsoever of the bishops' stand. In http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1221&pid=1049 I have said that Pope Paul VI's encyclical on contraception, Humanae Vitae is a piece of crap, and I gave specific reasons for that view.

What I am saying in this thread is that the bishops did not call for a government shutdown, and it is only by a convoluted reading of their letter that anyone could say they did.

Zambero

(8,965 posts)
56. Then they might as well shut down Catholic churches as well
Mon Oct 7, 2013, 10:06 PM
Oct 2013

The overwhelming majority of Catholics will practice birth control at some point in their lives. In the 50's and 60's most families entered churches with 4 kids or more. Not so today. Do the bishops attribute this to some sort of fertility problem visited upon their congregations?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
62. So they're allowed to shut down the Federal Government...
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 05:49 AM
Oct 2013

but women aren't allowed to shut down their own ovulation?

kydo

(2,679 posts)
68. These Bishops need to go read that interveiw by the Pope
Tue Oct 8, 2013, 08:38 AM
Oct 2013

Because it is exactly this type of behavior that Pope Francis was addressing in a recent interview.

“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context.

snip

The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently."


bklyncowgirl

(7,960 posts)
72. Maybe they don't think he's serious.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 07:41 AM
Oct 2013

Personally I hope he is but I guess we shall see. In the meantime this is just a distraction.

 

fitman

(482 posts)
77. My friend is a pharamacist who is Catholic
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 02:46 PM
Oct 2013

and he say's most Catholic women use BC. My wife and I are both Catholic and we used BC for years..we never wanted children

The church is out of step..

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
78. Blowback...incessent demands for shutting government by every fringe idea under the sun.
Wed Oct 9, 2013, 02:49 PM
Oct 2013

Thank you for standing firm...please proceed, PBO.

AngryOldDem

(14,061 posts)
80. I read the letter that Rug posted again.
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:41 AM
Oct 2013

And while the headline to the Think Progress story may be a bit overblown, the subtext is clear.

The bishops know full well that what they are asking for will be part of a government shutdown as they want to make the ban on contraceptives in ACA part of the "must-pass" legislation.

My simple take from all of this: Unless Catholic businesses, as a rule, employ only Catholic workers, then they have to follow the law like everyone else. They also must realize that there are many other reasons for taking contraceptives other than the obvious one.

But ANY reading of this letter shows that there is a disregard on the part of the bishops of the consequences of what they're asking. Sin or omission or commission? It's been awhile since my catechism.

 

MindPilot

(12,693 posts)
84. Why would anybody give a flying rat's ass what these shitstains have to say?
Thu Oct 10, 2013, 03:43 PM
Oct 2013

Their ancient beliefs are completely irrelevant in modern society.

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