History repeats itself.

[sheshe2]

[Scootaloo]

1. My only regret is that I have but one rec to give!

[sheshe2]

13. Thanks Scootaloo~ nt

[Voice for Peace]

80. here's another kick.. beautiful. send to the prez

[awoke_in_2003]

17. I threw one in for you. nt

[BobbyBoring]

77. That's mine too

and a kick to boot

[LAGC]

2. How far the mighty Republican Party has fallen...

What would Honest Abe say of his party today?

[chervilant]

3. He would disavow these mendacious hedonists.

Particularly Boehner, whose hubris reeks of presumed privilege.

[sheshe2]

14. +1

[IrishAyes]

21. Abe would be a Democrat today.

[Oldtimeralso]

35. Agreed

Even Eisenhower and probably Nixon would be Dems today!

[IrishAyes]

66. At least Eisenhower!

[xfundy]

4. Great hair! Why can kids do that but it looks stupid on adults, except for Abe?

Also, too: He was right.

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Because Abe kicked ass. nt

[Cha]

5. Wow.. aren't we just reliving history, she..

Thank you for the history lesson.

[leftyohiolib]

6. just like my sig says

[SunSeeker]

7. Indeed. Bruce Bartlett was on MSNBC last night saying that this GOP is "neo-Confederate."

Bartlett said they are not the GOP he joined...that they are a "Southern insurrectionist" party. Quite a statement coming from Reagan's former policy adviser.

[meow2u3]

79. One difference between old Confederates and the Tea Party

The neo-confederate teabaggers are not all from the South, at least not geographically.

If the same states seceded in 2013 as they did in 1861, would we have to deport Northern Tea Party sympathizers to the newly minted Confederacy? I think we should.

[Avalux]

8. Whoa. I've never seen that quote before.

Quite prescient. I hope Obama has it hanging from his bathroom mirror.

[AzDar]

9. Obama seems to admire Mr. Lincoln a great deal... hopefully, he's taking heed.

[ProSense]

10. Very cool. Thanks. n/t

[sheshe2]

11. ...

[rocktivity]

12. And he was a Republican, too!

rocktivity

[dinger130]

15. Wow, Wow, Wow

How appropriate!

Thanks for putting this up. This should be on everyone's Facebook page.

[Vanje]

16. Awesome!

Good find.

[kentuck]

19. So timely!

Thanks!

[hue]

20. Deja vu all over again!! K&R!!

[treestar]

22. K&R

The tea partiers of today would have been the secessionists of 1860/

[meow2u3]

24. The tea partiers of today

ARE the secessionists of the 2010's.

[freshwest]

32. +1

[bunnies]

23. Yet you recommend the peoples view bullshit?

The blathering that seeks to break us up? Im having a hard time figuring out where you stand.

[Cha]

25. That has not one thing to do with this OP. It's a History Lesson of what

Lincoln said and how we're going through this now. End. of. story.

There's a rule around here that goes something like this.. you don't bring shit over from another thread.

[bunnies]

26. Oh ok. Dual personalities.

You get to change from one thread to another. No accountability for what you said before. You should run for congress.

[Cha]

27. Start your own damn thread.. Call us out in your own

whining OP.

You just don't get to shit on the Lincoln thread.

[bunnies]

28. But you get to shit on the left via the PV?

That seems fair. You agree with an OP that bashes liberals then you attempt to rally those you hate? Its pretty fucked up really. Think about it.

[Cha]

30. Still hijacking she's thread.. it figures. please

proceed with your pissing and moaning.

[Electric Monk]

31. bunnies makes an excellent point, whether you want to admit it or not. nt

[Cha]

33. the poster can start her own thread and stop hijacking someone

else's thread.

[rhett o rick]

37. This is GD and not the BOG. If she wants only accolades and +1000's she may be posting in the

wrong place. Some here dont like those that attack the left and try to split the party.

[Cha]

38. Everyone knows this GD.. you're not making some grand revelation here.

That still doesn't mean someone gets to bring their whining shit over and hijack a thread.

Start your own damn threads if you can't stop whining about it. Don't continue to Mess up the Lincoln OP.

[sheshe2]

49. Well rhett, I am on the left,

just not the left of the left. I don't think you are either. Look what was spawned from the right of the right of the right. The Tea Potty. We can never be governed by any extremes.

Where have I been attacking the left? I think my views on what I stand for have been clearly stated. I firmly believe in equality, equal rights for everyone. Voting rights. I am, as a woman very strong in my support for VAWA and once again equal rights for a woman to chose what to do with her body. I also want to protect our children from violence on the streets and in their homes. I stand strongly on immigration reform. I do not want to see families torn apart.

I think in the time that I have been with DU that I have made that pretty clear. I stand with my President. I am so very grateful that we have a calm even keeled President that has led us through so many horrors. You do remember that he came into office with the advent of a great depression hanging over our heads? You remember that right? That Bushco had basically brought America to her knees. Remember our loses, our savings, our houses? Lost.

His even thinking and quite demeanor got us through all that. He never once set his hair on fire, he calmly proceeded to strengthen this nation.

I was not at DU back in 2008, however I saw a lot of outrage that he was not moving fast enough to suit many people. One site I read a lot back then, after unanimously supporting him, they turned on a dime. Sad that, it really was.

Rhett, you say some here don't like attacks on the left and that they split this party? Take a moment, I asked you to honestly think about this. Clearly think with out hating me, you must see the vicious attacks on this President here at DU. Worse than Bush etc etc, I will never vote for anyone unless they are a true progressive. Please, an honest answer. Is that not divisive?

We are a Government of the People. For the People. All the people.

Peace~

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. That is one succint and eloquent answer to what was meant to be a

snarky comment. You Rock!!!!

[sheshe2]

55. I thank you Tarheel_Dem

I really do~

[Tarheel_Dem]

56. OOO

[Cha]

58. Ain't that

the truth! sheshe.. you too Tarheel!

[noiretextatique]

62. we can be governed by an extreme on the right

and we have been...that has been a huge problem. I agree with much of what you write, but I disagree with notion that the left is as bad as the right and only centrists are reasonable.

[sheshe2]

69. Maybe in the 1860's,

However, I hardly believe that the issue of equality was "extremist" even then.


Abraham Lincoln vs. Stephen A. Douglas


snip

In the "Great Debates" the primary issue was slavery. Douglas argued in favor of "Popular Sovereignty" in the territories, and tried to paint Lincoln as an extremist who was in favor of the social equality of blacks and whites—an anathema to most whites of that day. Lincoln’s main theme was that slavery was a moral evil that should not be allowed to spread. Lincoln, who sometimes amused the audience by calling Douglas a "great man," and himself a "mere mortal," kept hammering at Douglas’ refusal to admit the immorality of slavery. During one of the debates Lincoln said: &quot Douglas) has the high distinction, so far as I know, of never having said slavery is either right or wrong. Almost everybody says one or the other, but the Judge never does." (The Lincoln Encyclopedia, A. Shaw, p. 308)

http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/lincoln-v-douglas.htm

[HangOnKids]

40. Don't like it alert on the post

I didn't see on the DU home page or TOS standards where YOU make the rules.

[Cha]

41. I don't alert and go whining to anyone.. maybe the

rules have changed since I remember reading that way back in DU2. Either that or it was just understood that you didn't hijack someone's OP because you wanted to whine about shit from another thread.

[HangOnKids]

43. One persons whine is another persons legit complaint

And hijacking is a rather ridiculous assertion, a poster having a different view is not hijacking. They are just posting their opinion. I'm sure you understand all that because you are very nuanced.

[Cha]

45. Then "complain" about it on the Original thread or start another thread. Don't

be a rude jerk and hijack someone else's thread.

[HangOnKids]

48. Sorry Cha people post where they like

You need to lose the hijack meme, all threads are open and fair to ALL posters. Hijacking is usually done on airplanes, DU isn't flying as best as I can see. YMMV, but you don't have a leg to stand on here in this argument.

[bunnies]

60. Listen.

That high horse bullshit only exists in the BOG. In GD, were allowed to call you out on hypocrisy regardless of what thread you spew it in. You dont get to have multiple personalities all over the board. For example: You cant be a sexist asshole in one thread and claim to be a champion of feminism in another. Or if you do... expect to be called on it. Its really that simple.

So I guess this board is filled with "rude jerks" who call people out on their bullshit. Good. Its not Bullshit Underground.

[Egalitarian Thug]

73. How very emo-tional of you. n/t

[sheshe2]

74. Just a question for you, bunnies.

Is it okay to bash this President? He is called a warmonger, worse than Bush and Republican light, oh and so much more. Yep, right here on DU.

Do you have strong feelings about that?

Its pretty fucked up really. Think about it.

[bunnies]

75. I dont bash the President.

And Im quite sure Ive never called him any of those things. I dont believe any of those statements are true him, frankly.

[sheshe2]

76. I didn't sat that you did,

only that it is in fact being said here. Where is the outrage?

This President is bashed and trashed on DU. By Democrats. Where is the unity there?

[bunnies]

78. I dont see that as a proper comparison.

Centrist bashing, otoh, would be. Hopefully now that the poster hell-bent on dividing the party is gone, there wont be so much backlash.

edit: sp

[treestar]

89. WHy can't the left take criticism?

It criticizes everyone else.

[bunnies]

91. I think you may have missed my point.

People can criticize the left all they want. But to post about unity immediately afterwards? Kinda hypocritical.

[sheshe2]

34. I would prefer that you take this back to the thread where it belongs. However I will answer you.

You bunnies, brought it to mine and then have the audacity to question where I stand.

I think in the time that I have been with DU that I have made that pretty clear. I stand with my President. I am so very grateful that we have a calm even keeled President that has led us through so many horrors. You do remember that he came into office with the advent of a great depression hanging over our heads? You remember that right? That Bushco had basically brought America to her knees. Remember our loses, our savings, our houses? Lost.

His even thinking and quite demeanor got us through all that. He never once set his hair on fire, he calmly proceeded to strengthen this nation.

I was not at DU then, however I saw a lot of outrage that he was not moving fast enough to suit many people. One site I read, after unanimously supporting him, they turned on a dime. Sad that, it really was.

You judge me and try to ridicule me, yet as you admit you have no clue where I am coming from. You could start by reading some of my posts.

[bunnies]

59. If pointing out hypocrisy is ridicule...

I suppose you have a point. Ive read your posts. I know you are an AVID fan of the President. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you recommend some of the most divisive posts on this board, yet on the same time go on to cheer for party unity. How do you reconcile that?

[Egalitarian Thug]

72. Lincoln, the Original EmoProg.

[treestar]

90. The emoprogs if around then

would have been undermining Lincoln all they could, because he had not ended slavery on his first day in office. They'd be trashing him because there was a war on. That warmonger! Primary him!

[Egalitarian Thug]

92. I'm so happy I don't live in your sad little world, it must be terribly frustrating...

...although it is pretty damned funny to watch...

[treestar]

94. I'd alert but you are all numerous enough to have a jury

that won't hide that.

My analogy is perfect.

[uponit7771]

29. Freakin SCARY!!! I thought I was reading something today...didn't look at context of quote...

...and conservatives are still doing the same crap today!!

[gordianot]

36. This is a "Constitutional" crisis.

Much like previous Constitutional crisis in the past this one is not one people will readily acknowledge as it develops. The Supreme Court plays prominently in this crisis as it did in the past. Citizens United was the seed coming from the Supreme Court the partial overturning of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 did not help. Into this mix comes a Congress incapable of legislating. Large concessions have already been made to meet the demands of Congress. We have a President who understands the Constitution and actually is an expert on Constitutional Law. A sizable portion of the electorate appears to despise that President and irrationally opposes him, in spite of a sizable majority who elected him.

Two days into a shutdown of the American Government seems like a stretch to decare this a Constitutional Crisis but the tactics employed by a group of radicals in both houses of congress, a minority that is rejected by most Americans, does not bode well. What is happening now is not an accident although the immediate circumstances may not have been planned.

Not all of the actors have come into play, sides are being taken as this develops. This whole thing could develop as a challange to faith and credit of the United States in two weeks a disaster of epic worldwide proportions. We are infested in Government by people who a few years ago would have been ridiculed and judged as dangerous radicals not to be allowed in the company of rational people, there are many of them. They have taken control by obstruction bordering on destruction.

A remedy not discussed openly by the executive branch is the unthinkable. Yes, this is a big deal.

[Cha]

39. Yes, it is gordianot! thank you for explaining it so well.

[longship]

44. Alexander the Great is said to have sliced through the knot with his sword.

The myth of Gordias and his knot, tied so tightly and tangled so that no person could untie it, is one of those great historic metaphors.

Thanks, Cha, for bringing it up here.


Gordian Knot (Wiki, for the curious).

[Cha]

46. Thank you, longship.. I had no idea.. I was just thanking

the poster by that name.

Good to see you, longship and mahalo for the link!

[longship]

47. As always, my friend. nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

42. Wow!

[William769]

50. Kick & recommended.

[sheshe2]

51. Thank you William~

[William769]

52. I have been hiding lately. GD has been a scary place.

[sheshe2]

53. Oh William~

We are here~

[Cha]

57. Hey William.. I've been missing you, too

[Martin Eden]

61. They will repeat the experiment upon us ad libitum...

That is exactly why the current president MUST NOT SURRENDER.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. That describes today's Republicans well. Here's the Lincoln quote that defines Centrists

During a meeting President Lincoln asked for a cup of coffee. When he tasted the cup he was handed he said this:
" If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."

[octoberlib]

64. So true.

John P. Judis sums up the modern GOP this way:
"Over the last four decades, the Republican Party has transformed from a loyal opposition into an insurrectionary party that flouts the law when it is in the majority and threatens disorder when it is the minority. It is the party of Watergate and Iran-Contra, but also of the government shutdown in 1995 and the impeachment trial of 1999. If there is an earlier American precedent for today's Republican Party, it is the antebellum Southern Democrats of John Calhoun who threatened to nullify, or disregard, federal legislation they objected to and who later led the fight to secede from the union over slavery."

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/3079:goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult

[MaeScott]

65. +eleventyseven!!! yes! nt

[SaveAmerica]

68. Maybe why he felt our downfall wouldn't come from foreign shores but from within?

What's the quote?

[gopiscrap]

70. no kidding

[Jackpine Radical]

71. Thanks for this.

I'm emailing it to a wingnut of my acquaintance just to provide him with a little cardiac stress.

[nxylas]

81. Do you have a source for that quote?

I want to satisfy myself that it's genuine before I share it with anyone else.

[sheshe2]

84. In an article by Andrew Sullivan, though I found the graphic on FB

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/01/the-best-of-the-dish-today-73/

[nxylas]

86. And Sullivan links to his source

Thanks for that, you can't be too careful with so many bogus quotes floating around on the internet.

[sheshe2]

87. nxylas~

[Cha]

82. Here's another Lincoln Quote, she.. to get back to the point of your OP.

[font size=lg]"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."[/font]

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/abraham_lincoln.html#0Tas1g2rD3diq1Rw.99

We have an enemy within as always.. we are fighting for our very freedom from Tyranny right Now.

To borrow your graphic from another thread of yours..



h/t sheshe http://www.democraticunderground.com/110217588

Thank you for your thread, she

[sheshe2]

83. Epic quote,

to go along with the graphic! We should send that along to the congress critters!

Thank you my dear Cha.

[mysuzuki2]

85. Has there ever been a thread on DU more than 10 posts long that hasn't turned into an argument?

[B Calm]

88. I seriously doubt Abe could be a republican today even if he wanted to be.

[Egalitarian Thug]

93. Of course he wouldn't. He went with the 3rd party because neither of the

"serious", established political parties were working for the people and hadn't for many years.