O.M.G. We have HEALTHCARE.

[Th1onein]

I have ragged on this Prez for the NSA shit, and he DESERVES that. But Obamacare? It will revolutionize how we do business in this country; it will provide such a boost to our economy, we'll ride it for the next two decades.

Obama made history. He deserves props. EXCELLENT JOB, MR. PRESIDENT!

[Peacetrain]

1. I have not seen this site so united.. ever I think

[Ms. Toad]

8. I must be reading an entirely different DU than you...

I have been having epic battles the past two weeks (continuing today) with people still trashing the ACA. Maybe they are just few and loud, but it does not feel united to me.

[Peacetrain]

16. Oh there are a few

here who would piss on a doughnut if given to them by anyone who does not think and post EXACTLY as they have deemed acceptable. You know.. you can have 100 people nodding yes, and one screaming NO .. and who will stick in your mind the most Its a good day I think Ms. Toad.. its a good day. My brother will not get health care coverage because of the state he lives in. He is in SD one of the 13 that did not expand Medicaid to cover the poor. But like he told me. He is going to work his best to vote Dugarrd out. I am happy to see DU pulling basically in the same direction.. for health care coverage for all. There is a lot of work to be done.. and first on the agenda is getting those thirteen states to cover those who fall below the poverty level.. but we are finally on the way.

[msanthrope]

22. Who would piss on a doughnut....sooooo stealing that. nt

[Ms. Toad]

34. Sorry about your brother...

any way he can bump his income up to just over the Medicaid cutoff and become eligible for the largest subsidy?

For those in positions which pay tips, who (in my experience preparing taxes) don't always report all of the tips they have earned, the difference between having health insurance and not may make reporting tips attractive. Extra odd jobs that might have been paid "under the table," etc. Particularly in families with income at the level where additional income doesn't make a difference for tax purposes, bartering is a good way to bump up reportable income. For example, I have worked as a seamstress in the past - and I have an aunt who has worked cleaning houses. If we barter a deal where I alter her clothes and she cleans my house, that gives each of us reportable income in the amount of the bartered services. If we work it out evenly - money doesn't even need to change hands. If it is income below the level at which it increases my taxes (or even if it increases them slightly - but puts me in the range where I have access to subsidized health care - it may be worth it to start reporting that barter exchange.)

**Note - it is mandatory to report each of these things anyway (tips, under the table income, barter income), but the reality is that many people don't. This glitch, in the 13 states might make it worthwhile to start reporting it because it may provide access to health care.

[pnwmom]

41. Wouldn't social security taxes still be an issue? I wonder if

a person could gift someone else enough to put them over the limit. Could that put someone's income above the threshold? (There are no taxes on gifts under $13K so the question is if the amount could be considered part of income for the purpose of the ACA.)

[Ms. Toad]

48. Gifts almost certainly would not count as income for the ACA -

And yes, FICA taxes would be owed. If it is tip income, the employer would owe the employer's half (there is a special form). For bartering, I believe the individual would owe both shares - likely a Schedule C would need to be filled out, but I haven't checked recently. But the plus side of that is that it builds up the quarters and base on which social security retirement income is based.

If the top-off is small, the additional amount paid in in FICA taxes would likely be far less than unsubsidized health insurance/cost sharing.

It pays to run the numbers. But if I was anywhere near the subsidy cut-off in a state without expanded Medicaid, you can bet I'd pay ~15% on bartering or other income to get near free health insurance, rather than pay ~$350/month + full cost sharing.

[Cha]

25. I must have them ignore.. I've

seen nothing like. Waste of space.

[Th1onein]

10. This is HISTORIC.

And the Repigs will go down in history as opposing one of the most popular social programs ever.

[Rex]

54. +1

nt.

[Cracklin Charlie]

39. It is indeed a beautiful day, Peacetrain!

ps...I love your screen name.

[Peacetrain]

53. Thank you

[Cleita]

51. Especially since most of us wanted single payer

and view insurance companies and big Phrma with only slightly more esteem than Congress today. Yet we recognize this as a step to a more progressive plan down the line, like Medicare for all.

[Peacetrain]

55. Its movement forward for sure

Its the first big movement for health care for all.. its huge..its a start. And that is a good frame of mind to begin with.. this is the start..

[Agnosticsherbet]

2. Let's call it ACA. It is changing things. n/t

Last edited Tue Oct 1, 2013, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

[thecrow]

15. What does AFA mean?

[Agnosticsherbet]

26. My mistake. ACA.

Affordable Care Act.

[florida08]

3. totally agree

Feels good to know working people with pre existing conditions can now have access to coverage along with the working poor

[Whisp]

19. and that biggie where one doesn't have to be tied down

to a miserable job because the employer offers health insurance and one feels stuck there.

that is just amazing. so many amazing things to ACA.

Thank you, Mr. President Obama! You will be remembered for your good works for all time.

and you aren't done yet.

[Cha]

29. And, this Biggie..

[Whisp]

31. Yes, that's probably the Biggest Biggie!

Lots of parents crying with joy over that one.

it is a good day.

[Schema Thing]

65. oh it's way bigger than just that - as of January 1st, 300 million Americans

can not be denied health insurance because of pre-existing conditions.



The words "pre-existing conditions" can be excised from the American vernacular.

[Laelth]

4. He got it done.

I give him credit for effective leadership in regards to the ACA.

I give him more credit for refusing to buckle to Republican demands to repeal it or scale it back.

-Laelth

[Zorra]

5. YAY!

[bowens43]

6. Agreed. This is a good start.

[awoke_in_2003]

66. Agreed, and I hope...

it is just a start.

[Puzzledtraveller]

7. Health Insurance

[leftstreet]

9. With deductibles, copays and mandatory participation!

[Demo_Chris]

12. Mandates are the cool new thing. nt

[leftstreet]

13. Now, now. It's 'shared responsibility' for insuring profits n/t

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. I'm a state employee

I get the Capital choice plan from Humana. It's the the plan in the middle. Out of the 3 offered. I cannot afford to go to the doctor. I have severe allergies. I have been without the shots for a year. How much are they you ask? $10. That's every week for 3 allergy shots. I do not even have $10 to spare for the shots, once I pay all the bills I have due there is nothing left and I am living as lean as I can. So I must be crazy to suffer like this, allergic to over ten airborne allergens and a equal amount of foods. No, I'm broke. Yes, for catastrophic injury or major operative surgery I'm thankful. But I do not have access to HEALTHCARE because I cannot afford to use it.

[jeff47]

36. Make sure you keep forgetting the out-of-pocket caps

It's wise to leave those out. Otherwise it might weaken your argument.

"Ha! Your bronze plan only covered 40% of that $200k major surgery!! So you have to pay.....$1k due to out-of-pocket cap. Boy, wouldn't no insurance at all be better?"

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Wasn't the out-of-pocket caps provision delayed until 2015?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/us/a-limit-on-consumer-costs-is-delayed-in-health-care-law.html?smid=tw-nytimeshealth&seid=auto&_r=1&pagewanted=all&

[jeff47]

62. The law is. But the plans have to compete.

And so virtually all of them have an out-of-pocket cap.

[leftstreet]

61. They were delayed! You don't even know that?

Talk about an inability to make an argument

Good grief

[jeff47]

63. Except not.

The law requiring them was delayed.

But these plans are sitting side-by-side on a web site competing. So the vast majority actually do have those caps.

You know, kinda the entire point of having these "exchanges" in the first place.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. heh.

[phleshdef]

18. Which you have to have if you aren't wealthy and have significant healthcare needs...

...thus health insurance = access to healthcare. So tired of this dumb argument...

[Fumesucker]

20. Very few people in the UK have health insurance

And yet a far larger percentage of Britons get health care than Americans.

Go figure.

So tired of the dumb argument that health insurance = health care, there is someone on this very thread saying they can't afford to use the insurance they already have.

[phleshdef]

30. Collectively pooling risk to pay for everyone's needs is...

collectively pooling risk to pay for everyone's needs. Of course I agree that, in regard to healthcare, doing this through one single publically ran entity would be better. That doesn't change the fact that you need a risk/pool based financing mechanism to pay for everyone's healthcare. In this country, we are stuck with private companies dominating the market for anyone who isn't a senior or a person in poverty, at the moment. That won't change until we have progressive majorities in both houses and the White House.

Regardless, at this time and place, health insurance IS access to health care. I know this from experience as I use mine for healthcare needs.

[Fumesucker]

32. Then why is someone on this thread saying they can't afford to use their insurance?

I can think of several people I know already in this predicament, have coverage but can't afford to make use of it.

[phleshdef]

68. It seems like, at the moment, a lot of people are getting different experiences.

I suspect that in some states, prices are coming out better than others. I feel part of that has to do with how much that state has put into compliance with the exchanges.

States like California and New York, who were on it from day 1, seem to be looking at some very good results. Other states, I'm not sure whats going on.

It also depends on the insurance companies and what they are doing. Some of them are definitely trying to take advantage of maybe one of their last windows to find a reason to jack up rates. Once the subsidies start, they are going to be under more scrutiny that they could've ever imagined. I think they are trying to pad themselves in the event that the pools don't attract enough new customers to enable them to cover all the things they could deny before. My prediction is, as the pools from the exchange grow larger, uncertainty about the pool will die down and premiums will level and drop across the board. But I still think a lot of it comes down to how certain states are carrying it out. Some states are using the power the ACA gives them better than others.

[progressoid]

33. That "dumb argument" is reality.

I have health insurance. I can't access most healthcare until I pay over $4000 in co-pays and deductibles.

Edit: not to mention monthly premiums.

[jeff47]

38. Actually, you can.

The vast majority of healthcare is preventative, so it's covered. Co-pays and deductibles kick in for more unusual situations where that $4k will seem cheap.

My 2nd kid was born a month ago. $4k doesn't cover the room, much less doctors, medicines, tests and so on. I'm thrilled that I only have to pay my out-of-pocket maximum.

[progressoid]

42. In my world,

$4k is not cheap. We're still paying off two providers and one debt collector of non-preventative ("unusual&quot care.

Can't wait to do it all again next year.

[jeff47]

45. In my world, $4k is cheaper than $100k. Which was my point.(nt)

[treestar]

35. +1

It has to be paid for - that's the bottom line. Even single payer. If it were from taxes, you'd be getting new taxes instead of health care. Or something like that.

It's like someone thought that argument was clever and so it just gets repeated. It's meaningless.

[Hissyspit]

37. No, it's not the same thing.

And, no, it's not a meaningless argument.

[treestar]

60. Yes it is.

You'll never get health care from the government. Just a way to pay for it.

[RedCappedBandit]

23. Critical distinction.

[City Lights]

46. Thank you!

[tallahasseedem]

11. It is definitely a great day for our fellow Americans...

that need insurance! Although we're dealing with the shutdown, I couldn't help having the overwhelming feeling of relief for the millions who need it!

[Whisp]

17. I think I have to rec this.

[Rex]

21. Don't tell that to the GOP apologists.

They are running around trying to blame the Left for the GOPs transgressions...bless their tiny little hearts!

[Warren DeMontague]

24. K&R

[Harmony Blue]

27. I am looking at the numbers and early enrollment

this will be a success.

[steve2470]

28. yep, the PPACA is a stepping stone to Medicare for all one day, hopefully sooner than later nt

[AverageJoe90]

40. Truly, this is a grand milestone in American history.

Thanks for breaking the news, fella. This just made my day.

(P.S. Yes, we did. Gobama! )

[DissidentVoice]

43. It IS an achievement, an historic one

However, I hope it leads to full, single-payer.

Until that happens, we will not have true universal health care.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

44. O.M.G.: Obama Made Good. nt

[DinahMoeHum]

47. Kickety kick kick. . .

[SunSeeker]

49. K & R

[Politicub]

50. The major provisions of the Act

are here, and it's a beautiful thing.

[Taverner]

56. State of CA is discussing the idea of using it to institute Single Payer

[TBF]

57. He has made mistakes for sure -

but if cheaper healthcare for more people is his legacy then he should be very proud. That is a very good legacy.

[IronLionZion]

58. It is the ONLY viable way to fund the increase of more hospitals, doctors, and support staff.

to handle the increasing need to care for our people.

Reagan went deep into debt to built up missile systems like an assclown. Bush went deep into debt for trillion dollar wars like an murderous assclown.

But Obama should be remembered for expanding access to health insurance for every American who wants it, and therefore building up more health care providers, while traitors shut down the government trying to stop it.

[lonestarnot]

64. Wonderful! How exciting! I am happy for you!

[sheshe2]

67. K&R!