Done deal. I am now officially an ex-1039-TEMP at USDA/USFS.

[DemoTex]

Not their fault. Not my President's fault. Not the fault of the US Senate. Certainly not MY fault.

I'll be posting a whole lot more on this as I digest my bitterness. I try to keep "hate" out of my repertoire, but mercy, mercy, mercy! Turn my cheek to the Tea Party? I think not.

Mac T.
Wilderness Fire Lookout
USFS

[Cha]

1. When will the Treason stop?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You can count on us to give you support during this tempestuous time, my dear DemoTex...

[Ohio Joe]

3. You are a victim of repug thugs

I have a room mate, family and friends that are in the same boat as you. I wish all of them saw the truth of who is doing this as you do.

[SheilaT]

4. Are you still out looking for fires?

I'm under the impression the fire season might be officially over, but you're making me think what a really bright idea it would be in July or August to furlough (or whatever it would be called) people doing that job.

[joshcryer]

5. Have a safe trip home.

Hopefully it's cleared up quickly and you can get back to business.

I know you're sticking around for a day or so, so best case is that it's cleared up by then. But the behavior of House Republicans indicates to me this is going to go on for the week.

[Suich]

6. This is just bizarre...1st time in 17 years!

The good news is that those responsible for shutting down the government have put all their eggs in one basket. When it comes time to raise the debt ceiling, in two and a half weeks, they won't have an argument against it. At least, that's my theory!

If this thing gets called off in a day or two, are you back on the job? Or are you done for the season?

It seemed pretty quiet there, unless you were so busy, you didn't have time to post!

Thanks for your service, Mac!

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Actually "It Increasingly Looks Like Obama Will Have To Raise The Debt Ceiling All By Himself"

[link: http://www.businessinsider.com/it-increasingly-looks-like-obama-will-have-to-raise-the-debt-ceiling-all-by-himself-2013-9#ixzz2gRWfhlcY|It Increasingly Looks Like Obama Will Have To Raise The Debt Ceiling All By Himself]

Invoking the 14th amendment will lead to some serious shit, because there is no reason on earth that Republicans need, or even desire, to be reasonable.

[morningfog]

32. The Obama Administration has previously said they don't think that is constitutional.

They don't think the have the legal authority to do that. He could take Bill Clinton's advice and just do it and make the Supreme Curt stop him. I don't see Obama doing that.

[Samantha]

9. They won't raise it without demanding something equally onerous as postponing/repealing ACA

They will demand the approval of the Keystone Pipeline or something equally repulsive to many Dems.

Sam

[2naSalit]

13. Could always counter their threats by

actually charging them with violating their oath of office.

An oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They swore that they would bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that they did this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. They agreed to faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which they were about to enter. So help them God.

So we could charge them with perjury at the very least since there is recorded evidence that they have intended to shut down the government since 2010. Rachel Maddow played several minutes of this recorded evidence. It's time, folks, it's time to hold them accountable.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#53151808

[Samantha]

16. Similar to something I posted Sunday

"I know the House oath requires they swear they will uphold the Constitution. I know the Constitution declares Uncle Sam will pay its bills. I know there are a number of Republicans who think shutting down the Government is wrong. Additionally, if these Congressmen who have organized the vote to shut the government down were accused of not living up to their oath of office and protecting the Constitution, it would have to be done outside of Congress -- which would never impeach them.

So I am wondering if citizens could form a class action lawsuit and sue those Tea Party Republicans personally for losses they suffer from their negligence as a civil servant. Negligence would be their failure to uphold their duty to protect the Constitution. It would not be a criminal suit but a civil suit. The magnitude of the amount these Congressional representatives are sued for would be of such a staggering amount it would destroy them financially.

So the question I have is would this be possible?"

I am going to come back and read that link a little later. Thanks for posting it.

Sam

[2naSalit]

20. I think that would be

one of the point upon which standing could be established but I think that the, possibly, better argument could be based upon the art of the oath where the attest, as well, that they take the oath willingly and with - basically - no malice of forethought to damaging the country or its Constitutional mandates... which is where the link I posted comes in as it is actually th opening segment of the RMShow from last night, just prior to the shutdown, where she provides recorded evidence that they willfully intended to shut down the government since 2010. It's pretty damning.

The part of the oath that would be the point to argue given the video link above would be the parts highlighted in this excerpt:

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

5 U.S.C. §3331

As Federal civil servants, we take an oath of office by which we swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution not only establishes our system of government, it actually defines the work role for Federal employees - "to establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty."

The history of the Oath for Federal employees can be traced to the Constitution, where Article II includes the specific oath the President takes - to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." Article VI requires an oath by all other government officials from all three branches, the military, and the States. It simply states that they "shall be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." The very first law passed by the very first Congress implemented Article VI by setting out this simple oath in law: "I do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States."

But your point of argument would likely be included as they are referring to the Constitution which ensures life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness which they have obviously colluded to inhibit.

Odd times these...

[Samantha]

22. How about malfeasance in office?

The important point I was making in my original post recopied above was they did violate their oath of office but a Republican House would not impeach these Republican lawmakers (or should I say lawbreakers). So holding them accountable (assuming the DOJ would not get involved in pursuing a criminal action) would have to be in the courts by an outside party. So what about malfeasance in office?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malfeasance_in_office

"The West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals summarized a number of the definitions of malfeasance in office applied by various appellate courts in the United States.

“ Malfeasance has been defined by appellate courts in other jurisdictions as a wrongful act which the actor has no legal right to do; as any wrongful conduct which affects, interrupts or interferes with the performance of official duty; as an act for which there is no authority or warrant of law; as an act which a person ought not to do; as an act which is wholly wrongful and unlawful; as that which an officer has no authority to do and is positively wrong or unlawful; and as the unjust performance of some act which the party performing it has no right, or has contracted not, to do. ”
—Daugherty v. Ellis, 142 W. Va. 340, 357-8, 97 S.E.2d 33, 42-3 (W. Va. 1956) (internal citations omitted).


The court then went on to use yet another definition, "malfeasance is the doing of an act which an officer had no legal right to do at all and that when an officer, through ignorance, inattention, or malice, does that which they have no legal right to do at all, or acts without any authority whatsoever, or exceeds, ignores, or abuses their powers, they are guilty of malfeasance."

Nevertheless a few "elements" can be distilled from those cases. First, malfeasance in office requires an affirmative act or omission. Second, the act must have been done in an official capacity—under the color of office. Finally, that that act somehow interferes with the performance of official duties—though some debate remains about "whose official" duties.

In addition, jurisdictions differ greatly over whether intent or knowledge is necessary. As noted above, many courts will find malfeasance in office where there is "ignorance, inattention, or malice", which implies no intent or knowledge is required."

I am assuming these representatives are from states which would not recall them and I have to admit I still need to check out your link. I did however see the Rachel Maddow show you reference.

Sam

[2naSalit]

23. That might be a better argument

and it does include the instance of "malice" as a point of claim. I agree with you, and apologize for not doing so earlier, that the House will not charge them and that it would take an action by outside entities.

I need to do more reading on this, I think some consequence that forces them out before another election opportunity would be best if at all possible. They have got to go. I am certain this isn't going to end soon or end well for any of us, not too concerned as to their fate, which I don't have positive views on at the moment.

It's late and my eyes are getting blurry, I feel very much like I did during the impeachment of BC and it's not a good feeling and it makes me seek out all the info I can get from my remote location... which means reading a lot online. Time to toss another piece of wood in the stove and curl up for a spell.

Nice trying to think this through with you. I'll be back tomorrow some time after some more research.

2na.

[Samantha]

24. I did a little research too

I knew I started a thread about 2 years ago on economic treason. I just re-read it and some of the responses I received are fascinating. Maybe we should start a separate thread tomorrow, I could link to it, and we can start a discussion on that question everyone seems to be asking. That thread concerned Republicans refusing to raise the debt ceiling (surprise, surprise). It is very long but contains a lot of information.

Sam

[2naSalit]

25. Awesome

Let's get a thread going tomorrow then. this needs open discussion on it's own thread for certain.

Thanks!

2na

[Samantha]

29. I am glad you are interested -- I didn't want to hijack this thread by going off-topic

Might be this evening until I can get geared up. Hope to see you there.

Sam

[Samantha]

30. Thread is up!

I need to go back and proof again. I can you can jump in. It is not perfect....

Sam

[2naSalit]

33. Thanks!

I'm on it! See ya there.

[Rex]

8. I've stepped up the words to domestic terrorists.

Time to just come out and tell it like it is, economic terrorism is no different than bullets and bombs and that is the Modus operandi of the GOP.

This has to stop, the madness must stop. You're needed now more than ever. Droughts don't give two shits about politics.

Hang in there brother.

[merrily]

10. I am sorry for your troubles.

I hope something else works out for you soon.

As you know, there is middle ground between hate and turning the other cheek, neither of which is healthy, IMO. It's not always easy to find the middle ground, especially when a hurt is new. But, you will.

[Pachamama]

11. Just saw your post DemoTex.....

I am so spittin mad and disgusted at what the Repukes are doing to our country and economy....and then I see your post and am reminded so strongly about the people who get affected personally like you and the vital services you provide to so many people/taxpayers.....and I just get even more mad and disgusted....

Here we are....one of worst fire seasons on record and you and others sent away because of these Tea Party driven idealogues in the GOP....

I swear.....if there are fires or other tragedies that occur or get worse because of federal employees like yourself furloughed, i will want to see asshats like Sen Ted Cruz answer for that....

Gawd that man has got to be one of the all time stupidest and smug idiots I have ever seen....he is the poster child for the GOP & Tea Party and their not timely enough Obituary.

Best to you DemoTex.... Sending good thoughts for you and strength during this crazy time...

[azurnoir]

12. I am so sorry to hear this

The Pukes have put getting their way on a single item that they've already tried 40+ times to stop ahead of the well being of the rest of the country and I fervently hope they pay dearly for this

[steve2470]

14. hang in there, hopefully the ahole R's come to sanity later today nt

[MADem]

15. WHAT?????? Are you saying you've been "laid off" or "fired?"

You're an "ex??"

Will you be rehired after this mess ends?

[pinboy3niner]

17. Furloughed, but it's end of season

So I think Mac was due to leave soon, anyway. He will be back for the 2014 season.

I'll be the one opening up the wilderness lookout for the 2014 fire season. And that is a promise.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=journals&uid=102963

[MADem]

18. All right, then.

I would be terribly upset if I didn't get to see some of his fire watch posts again--they're a real highlight when I come across one!

[malaise]

19. Damn how did this reach you

[KG]

21. smoke signals

[Hekate]

26. MacT

Thank you for everything, and please keep posting here.

[cilla4progress]

27. My daughter, an enviro policy major,

just completed her first season working as a summer forestry aid for the USFS. She is horrified about the shutdown, and its impact on the agency she now loves!

So sorry - hang in there, DT!

[LiberalLoner]

28. I am so sorry. Hoping this madness is stopped soon.

[pinboy3niner]

31. And how refreshing is it to see DU united on an issue?

We are as one on this.

[LiberalLoner]

39. It's really cool to see that.

Thank you for waving at me!

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Damn, I was thinking about it this morning

Safe trip home.

[Zorra]

35. Looking forward to the day when you post those awesome photos from the lookout again.

Don't let them grind you down, brother.

[classof56]

36. Mac, on behalf of all us Central Oregonians you have served so well during this fire season...

Sincere thanks. You have blessed many DUers with your words, your photos and your commitment to making the West safe. Come back and do it again next year. You are appreciated!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

37. Holy Shit. It's been a while but I was a contractor at USDA Forest

Service. Hi.

Worked on the 9-11 audit of FS

Met the greatest people there.

[Liberal_in_LA]

38. kick