Will the GOP go into full treason mode?

[LuckyTheDog]

The lunatics are running the asylum in the US House. What they are doing now is childish. But in a couple weeks it will be time to raise the debt limit. If Republicans block that, it would cause real damage to the country.

If they go that far, they will have crossed the Rubicon. It would be a sign that they are willing to smash the republic to get the policy outcomes they want. Where that would lead is anyone's guess.

[Demo_Chris]

1. I suggest toning down the hypebole...

What they are doing is irresponsible and potentially damaging politically. It's not treason, it's politics. More, it's representative democracy in action. They are doing what their constituents expect. Unlike Democrats who will continue to vote for the party regardless of what their representatives actually do, social conservative tea party voters will not. They don't hope for representation, they insist upon it.

[Shrike47]

3. +1. They don't think they are hurting the country. (they're wrong, of course)

[LuckyTheDog]

9. The members of the House know what they are doing

The rank and file teabaggers may be too stupid to get it. But people in Congress know better.

[LuckyTheDog]

4. It is not hyperbole

If the Republicans force a default on the debt, that could cause chaos in the world economy. That's not politics. It's sedition.

Imagine if it was 1941 and Republicans insisted on eliminating the New Deal in exchange for voting for funds to fight imperial Japan. It's just about as serious as that.

[bhikkhu]

10. Since you bring up imperial japan...

Pearl harbor didn't shut down the government, but our home-grown tea party may well do so.

[LuckyTheDog]

11. The shutdown is not the even the real problem

Default on the debt would be much worse.

[bhikkhu]

13. The shut-down, and the endless threat of shut-down

is one way of screwing up the economic recovery, one in a long string of similar moves. Imagine what we could accomplish without the absolute stupidity of obstruction we've had for so long? I hope they hang by it (figuratively, of course) in the next elections.

[longship]

16. Treason has a specific definition in the USA.

It's in the Constitution. The reason why it's in there is because the founders realized how a charge of treason was used historically against political opponents. The codification in the Constitution is an attempt to cut off that use..

From Article III, Section 3:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

So yes. Calling Republicans out for treason in this case is very much hyperbole.

I hope this is helpful.

[LuckyTheDog]

18. If they force a default on the debt, that would cause more damage...

Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

... Than most terrorists could dream of inflicting. Economic sabotage can be a form of warfare.

[gordianot]

2. Actually I favor the bee apocalypse barring that a world wide collapse of financial markets works.

I know two bee keepers who are downright distraught. My hope is the current Republican show is that a stupid show.

[nebenaube]

15. my squash isn't getting pollinated. n/t

[JayhawkSD]

5. Disagreement with what we believe is not treason.

I happen to hold the same opinion you do, that the debt limit should be raised, but I do not hold the opinion that anyone who holds a differing opinion is guilty of treason.

[LuckyTheDog]

8. Intentionally damaging the country is treason

Everyone knows the what the consequences of default would be. If they are willing to do that, then they cease to be merely the political opposition. They become participants in a rebellion.

[onenote]

20. Not under the Constitution.

[LuckyTheDog]

23. There's more than one kind of warfare

Intentionally damaging the economy could be a form of unconventional asymmetric warfare.

[onenote]

25. with what goal in mind?

To achieve political gains in the next election? That's despicable, but its not treason.

[LuckyTheDog]

30. If they force a default on the debt

Then I think it would be safe to assume that they have moved out of the realm of normal, electoral politics and into something much more dangerous. Breaking up the union would be their next step.

[onenote]

31. I don't think the Constitution allows people to be charged with treason based on an assumption

I'm guessing you are not someone (like some of us here) who had "treason" shouted at them when they protested the Vietnam War. I'm curious, when many of us were urging -- indeed, demanding -- that Congress cut off funding for the Vietnam War -- would you have been along side us or with those calling it "treason."

What the Republicans are doing is outrageous. And hopefully they will pay for it at the polls.

[LuckyTheDog]

32. Withdrawing from Vietnam would not have destroyed the economy

In fact, withdrawing from 'Nam would have helped the country.

I think you just do not get how bad a default would be.

Merely shutting down the government is not nearly as serious as default would be.

To suggest that causing the country to default on its debt would be just another expression of "politics as usual" reveals that you really do not grasp the seriousness of such an act.

[seveneyes]

6. No

It will be more subtle. Subtle like a hand grenade.

[Rex]

7. Yes, the Tea Party is crazy with power and has huge financial backing.

All that drinking wasn't to celebrate, they want to stay drunk as the ship goes down. GOP always had it in for democracy and the Republic. Don't care how many bodies stack up. They are the most dysfunctional group ever to go extreme and become docile.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. Looks like they just did.

[spanone]

14. they are a dangerous lot. treasonous bastards.

[B Calm]

17. Deliberately destroying the United States is in fact treason!

[onenote]

21. What constitutes "destroying" the United States?

Defaulting will be disaster for the economy, but will it "destroy" the United States in the sense of dissolving the Union or putting it under control of foreign occupiers?

[B Calm]

22. Treason means treachery!

the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which one owes allegiance.

Republican Congress threatens or attempts to shut down the government only to defund Obama care which happens to be the law of the land, it is what it is: treason.

[onenote]

24. Here is what Treason means according to the US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."

Note the word "only."

Aside from the obvious fact that pursuing a very bad policy for the economy is not "treason" under the Constitution, what is the basis for your assertion that economic calamity (and we've had them before) will "overthrow" the government?

[LuckyTheDog]

26. Unconventional warfare is still warfare

Economic sabotage can be a form of unconventional asymmetric warfare.

[yuiyoshida]

19. I truly believe what they are doing is Extortion

This should not go unpunished.

[cantbeserious]

27. The Republicans Are Already There

eom

[bluestate10]

28. The GOP is already in full treason mode.

The party has done everything that it could to deny Americans good paying jobs, gun safety and freedom to manage their daily lives.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. they went full treason at election 2000. n/t