Ever received intrusive American Community Survey from Census Bureau? Required by law. Thoughts?

[madfloridian]

I just received one sent to my address, didn't use my name. I guess it will be easiest to go online and fill it out, but from what I have read it seems intrusive. I see the fine can be up to 5000 dollars, so it doesn't sound like much of a choice.

Here are a couple of articles I found about it. Seems controversial.

From the New York Times, 2012.

The Beginning of the End of the Census?

The American Community Survey may be the most important government function you’ve never heard of, and it’s in trouble.

This survey of American households has been around in some form since 1850, either as a longer version of or a richer supplement to the basic decennial census. It tells Americans how poor we are, how rich we are, who is suffering, who is thriving, where people work, what kind of training people need to get jobs, what languages people speak, who uses food stamps, who has access to health care, and so on.

It is, more or less, the country’s primary check for determining how well the government is doing — and in fact what the government will be doing. The survey’s findings help determine how over $400 billion in government funds is distributed each year.

But last week, the Republican-led House voted to eliminate the survey altogether, on the grounds that the government should not be butting its nose into Americans’ homes.

I gather the House did not succeed.

From NBC News:

On Your Side Alert: Legit or Scam? American Community Survey

Some of you may have received The American Community Survey from the Census in the mail and asked yourself, is this legit? Well, you are not alone, others are asking that same question. The survey asks lots of personal questions and that has many of you uncomfortable. We did some digging and got some answers.

Not only did you call some of you emailed us wanting to know more about the survey. One concerned viewer says, "The questions asked are quite involved and personal and there is no need for the government to know most of these things. Do you know if this survey is a scam or legit? "

We checked and the survey includes dozens of questions like "what time does a family member go to work", "how long does it take them get to work" -- and "how many times have you been married?"

Despite how awkward some of these question sound, we can confirm The American Community Survey is not a scam. In fact, you are required by law to fill it out and could be fined up to five thousand dollars if you don't. This doesn't mean however, that scammers won't try to create something similar, so before you fill out the survey, contact the Census.

I don't like to link to the Washington Times, but they do have more details on what is on the survey.

Tell All or be Fined

In the section on housing they want to know details about your property, how many rooms you have, whether you have a mortgage and how much it is, what types of energy you use and how much it costs, how many cars you own, what your property taxes are, how much your property is worth, the size of your lot … and on and on.

And that’s just the beginning. For each person in the house it demands to know educational history, ethnic composition, where they lived a year ago, what sort of health insurance they have, what hearing difficulties, what vision problems; whether they have difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions due to physical, mental or emotional condition; difficulty walking or climbing stairs; difficulty dressing or bathing; difficulty doing errands such as shopping due to physical, mental or emotional condition; marital status; complete marital history, how many spouses, when; children and grandchildren; information on disabilities; employment info, where, when, and two whole pages of work and income inquiry.

Just wondering if anyone has had this experience? I have mixed feelings.

[BKH70041]

1. Was it sent certified mail? Did you have to sign for it?

Then how do they know you actually received it? Maybe you didn't.



Just sayin'.

If your gut tells you something is up and you're not comfortable with it, go with your gut.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

2. Or do research on a topic. Our guts have shit for brains

[Hekate]

48. Good pooint -- I never thought of it *quite* that way.

[madfloridian]

3. I verified it is from the Census Bureau.

If I don't fill it out online soon, they will send a paper questionnaire in a few weeks.

My gut tells me it is invading my privacy, but my common sense tells me I don't want to pay that fine.

[BKH70041]

4. Oh Well

Have fun.

[former9thward]

6. All Census questionaires are "required by law".

If you don't fill out the once every 10 years census they can fine you also. But it never happens. In theory it is to your advantage to fill it out because 1) they will stop nagging you and 2) the answers you provide help guide planning for both government and business. Both use the information. But if all you are concerned about is the fine, don't be. Your local U.S. Attorney's office has much more to worry about than someone not filling out a form.

[REP]

7. Nothing says you have to be 100% factual

The sample questions sound similar to the last Census form I filled out.

[Posteritatis]

12. Yeah, lying on a census form sounds like a useful and productive course of action. Oy. (nt)

[REP]

23. Some good information is better than no information

The person to whom I was replying seemed unusually scared by the whole Census process. I was just reminding that person that, like many things that demand info, only the information one wants to provide is necessary.

[caraher]

40. You might get some follow-up if you're too creative

On the 1980 census my father listed "Irish" as his race, "Polish" as my mother's, and "Pirish" for each of the kids. About a month later he received a phone call asking about these answers... I think he regretted his little protest against the collection of race information!

[PoliticAverse]

27. They've apparently never actually fined anyone. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

39. My sister got this one and she was very upset by the questions

She felt that giving out information of the times family members left for work was as good as giving a burglar information on when to hit the house and she just felt the questions were too damn personal. She threw out the first set of papers, they called and hounded her and sent replacements but I don't know if she ever filled them out or not.

[madfloridian]

43. I am rather concerned also. It's more than enumeration.

It's very private details about about a person's health, including mental, and details of their lives and schedules.

I am going to wait for them to send me the paper one instead of filling it out online. Looks like it takes too long, will be easier on paper.

I kind of resent the intrusiveness of the questions, but the fine makes me think twice.

[dawg day]

51. It's important. A lot of social benefits and election issues depend on a good response to Census.

For example, they used to ask if you had indoor plumbing! Intrusive!
But it helped to establish how bad rural poverty was still, even after World War II.

Categories like race and ethnicity make clear first that we are indeed a multi-cultural country, and also indicates how "mixed" we're getting. This data can also be used to enforce voting rights rules, not to mention helping candidates understand their constituent mix.
It's often used to draw congressional districts and to determine how many congresscritturs a state gets.

Questions about possessions (like internet, computers, etc) help the government and localities better know what might help that area. That is, if there's an area with very poor internet access, the locality can focus more money and efforts into addressing that-- also this can help them support a case for federal and charitable grants.

None of this is going to trace back to you. At this point, anyway, this is all confidential and used in the aggregate, not personally. (I say at this point, because you know if Trump thinks he can use the information, he'll try and get it-- but he won't. This is a constitutional agency.)

Not to mention, the Statistical Abstract of the United States (which is derived in part from this survey) provides amazing information and statistics for students and researchers. How many children do most women have? How many people live in single=person households vs. multi-person? What percentage of residents of this area have completed high school? What mix of ethnicities live in this zip code? There's no end to the intriguing information you can find in the SAUS.

It's fascinating.
Not to mention that the GPS and Google Maps and all the mapping software started up with a Census Bureau program to map the entire US.

Fill it out. You won't be sorry. You'll be contributing to the history and sociology knowledge of the entire country going back centuries.

[enlightenment]

5. We participated in this about eight years

ago. We received it in the mail and after completing the form and sending it in, we were contacted by the Census folks for follow-up. They came to our house three times over the course of a year. Nothing online, though, so the personal visits must not happen anymore. I do not recall that there was a fine associated with not completing the initial survey - the follow-ups were definitely voluntary.

It's weird and yes, a bit intrusive (but honestly - a total stranger could pay $20 and find out most of that stuff without stepping out their door, unfortunately).

Because I am an historian and use census data for research on past societies, I see the value of these kinds of things. The data is anonymous - but in terms of developing a fuller picture, enormously beneficial to researchers of all kinds.

I'm a huge fan of privacy, but don't see this as a problem - that's probably hypocritical of me, I know, but it really didn't bother me that much.

[REP]

9. As a disabled peep, I hope they're figuring out more accessibility with those things

As the family genealogist, I fill them out because karma

[enlightenment]

11. Yep.

I was not happy to hear that the UK is planning on ending their census. Sad.

[madfloridian]

13. Agreed on on the historical need for some questions.

In fact in my genealogy research I use the older census images extensively. They have helped me find family often in surprising places. I think the 1850 census was most valuable to me. When they quit listing family members, it made research harder.

What I wonder about is the personal health questions. They have it all in databases, I realize that. But just having to write that all down in my own words seems annoying. I don't see how the personal questions will help future researchers that much.

[Posteritatis]

25. It's more or less impossible to predict what future researchers will and will not need

On the other hand, I can think of any number of reasons people would be interested in what people in the past thought and said about their own health, or any number of other things from basic demographic standards to the transparent fabrications that show up in plenty of census records.

Anything that's recorded will have something that people looking over those papers seventy years from now will find useful, one way or another.

[enlightenment]

28. Remember the old mortality schedules?

Those are not only fascinating (I had no idea how many young children died from "teething" . . .), but very useful for researchers seeking patterns of disease/health/etc. In an anonymous and aggregate form, I could see how health information could prove equally useful.

I know there were questions that I really hesitated over answering, but in the end I felt pretty comfortable that I wasn't exposing myself to risk by doing so. In the end, I guess you just need to decide how much you want to disclose - there's no truth-o-meter attached, so if you're not comfortable, I'd err on the side of less information than more.

Good luck with this - if I remember correctly, it feels like the questions never end!

[dawg day]

53. Isn't it helpful to know what disabilities or diseases are more or less common now?

This isn't just historical, though the Statistical Abstract is 130 years old! Amazing info.

https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/statistical-abstract-of-the-united-states

Think about how health $ are allocated when you're dealing with 50 states and 320 million people. Gee, these days, children are all covered by Medicaid or their parents' insurance, right?
Actually, the table here shows that in 2008, more than 7 million children were on the CHIP program. (It's helpfully broken down by state.)
https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/129ed/tables/health.pdf
Imagine how important it will be next year (when the next Abstract is published) to see how many more children are enrolled and where.
If you're a reporter trying to write about this program, this is absolutely essential information. And that's just one of thousands of tables and charts aggregating information.

This is where we get information like how many people are insured and uninsured.
How many people are blind, and how many use wheelchairs.

By state. (So we can tell that red state residents struggle with health issues even if they might vote against health benefits.)

The health information is MOST important, I think. Nothing de-stigmatizes mental illness or HIV, for example, as well as seeing how common they are.

[HappyMe]

8. The questions sound like the ones

I answered for the last census.

[Posteritatis]

10. The census is hugely important and the controversy's only been manufactured in the last few years

Nobody except for the far lunatic fringe was panicking over them until Bachmann and company decided they were a communist plan to steal our precious bodily fluids.

I'm utterly unoffended by them, not least because the records which aren't anonymized and aggregated are sealed for generations.

[madfloridian]

14. This does not appear to be an actual census.

It is called a questionnaire. It appears to be more about community.

[Posteritatis]

18. The ACS is part of the census. (nt)

[pnwmom]

22. It's the long form. The short form census doesn't have these questions.

Only a fraction of people get the long form.

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. I tossed mine.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. The ACS is one of the more important special censuses.

Like the long form of the decennial census the ACS collects more data points on a subset of households in order to be able to estimate the national statistics on those same data elements. The long form decennial census collects the info once every ten years; the ACS updates data annually.

I've not been chosen for the ACS but I had colleagues who worked with Census on this years ago; I've also used ACS data.

eta: link the the ACS site
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/american_community_survey/

[enlightenment]

29. Decennial?

Guess the one I filled out was longer ago than I recalled!

[Gormy Cuss]

30. If you filled out ACS, that's an annual survey with a rotation of metro areas.

"Decennial census" is shorthand used to describe the every ten year attempt by the U.S. Census bureau to count all people in the country (a true census.) The decennial census has a long form sent only to a subset of households. The questions are similar to those asked on the ACS. Sorry for the confusion.

[enlightenment]

31. No confusion except

for my faulty memory. I thought I'd done it about 8 years ago (I was chatting above and posted that I thought it was around then) - obviously it was longer than that!

CRS - *sigh*

[TreasonousBastard]

17. The Census Bureau is one of my part-time jobs and, yes, ACS is...

considered as part of the decennial census and required by law to be completed. Nobody I know of has been fined for refusing, but we do bug you for about three months.

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/#

This is one of about a dozen or so surveys we do and not all require participation. Several, like the Current Population Survey have several visits to see how a housing unit is doing over a period of time, and some, like the American Housing Survey are done for other Federal agencies. Generally, the contracted surveys follow the privacy rules of the contracting agency which might be slightly less constricting than those of the Census Bureau itself.

Privacy is a religion in the Census Bureau-- both the FBI and the IRS have sued to get out data and sent packing by the Supreme Court. Everything we do is encrypted with "need-to-know" authorization and I have five different passwords depending on what it is I'm doing at the time and can't even get at data I've input in specific cases. Every one of us working at Census has taken a nondisclosure oath and threatened with huge fines and jail time should we ever release any data we collected, or know about. I could, in theory, go to jail for just gossiping about a neighbor.

A lot of those economic and jobs reports you see bandied about are a direct result of these surveys and while I admit some are a pain in the ass, a lot of this data can't be gotten any other way.

FWIW, I've been doing this for a while and resistance seems to come and go depending on the latest horrorshow coming out of DC. Lately, the NSA hasn't made our jobs easier.

[Gormy Cuss]

32. "Privacy is a religion in the Census Bureau" -- so true.

I only wish that more people realized this. Census even suppresses data from its public use data sets whenever the n of observations in a cell is small enough to risk breach of anonymity.

Every Federal agency that I've ever worked with had data privacy policies that were more stringent than the ones I've seen in commercial settings.

[Laelth]

34. Excellent post. Thanks. n/t

-Laelth

[TreasonousBastard]

36. You're welcome.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. They came to my door

Late spring. . . for some reason our apartment unit is 'tagged' to receive it. Asked thinks like: Cracks in the walls/ceilings, how much we spent on utilities on average, how many bathrooms, laundry on site(?), walkability of the complex.

Fill it out - it helps fed gov to understand what the quality of life is in your area.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. That sounds like the American Housing Survey, not ACS...

and they'll be back for a followup in a year or two.

[JustAnotherGen]

49. For the new tenants!

. We are out of here!

[hootinholler]

20. I got one, as is typical I ignored it

They sent around this really nice lady to ask me the questions personally. How could I refuse?

[struggle4progress]

21. A lot of info about the survey is available at the census website

[dawg day]

54. Linky to the Statistical Abstract of the United States (just the health data)

https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/2010/compendia/statab/129ed/tables/health.pdf

Don't click unless you have some time to waste-- it's fascinating.

Here are other publications:
https://www.census.gov/library/publications.html

Just the first page of 135 pages of publications:
>
Sort by:

Quarterly Summary of State and Local Government Tax Revenue: 2017 Q3
December 19, 2017
Quarterly estimates of state and local government tax revenue at a national level, as well as detailed tax revenue data for individual states.

Survey of Market Absorption: Third Quarter 2017 – Absorptions
December 05, 2017
This report presents data on how soon privately financed, nonsubsidized, unfurnished units in buildings with five or more units were rented (absorbed).

Small Area Income and Poverty Estimates: 2016
November 30, 2017
Examines annual trends in income and poverty at the state, county, and school district levels based on the 2016 Small Area Income and Poverty Estimates.

Participation Rates in Other Assistance Programs: 2013
November 14, 2017
Reports individual participation rates in selected other assistance programs in 2013 as reported in the 2014 SIPP, Wave 1.

The Wealth of Veterans
November 09, 2017
This report uses data from the 2014 Survey of Income and Program Participation to describe the wealth of veterans of various ages.

Common Pay Patterns and Extra Earnings: 2013
October 2017
This brief examines the different types of pay received during 2013: wage and salary and extra earnings (commission, tips, overtime, and bonus payments).

Summary of the Quarterly Survey of Public Pensions for 2017: Q2
September 28, 2017
For the 100 largest public-employee pension systems in the country, assets(cash and investments) totaled $3,584.0 billion in the second quarter of 2017.

The Supplemental Poverty Measure: 2016
September 21, 2017
This report describes research on the Supplemental Poverty Measure (SPM).

[Glassunion]

24. My only issue with it, is that it is not anonymous.

If they had removed the first and last name from the form, I'd have no issue with it.

But it is a valuable tool for government.

[Silver Swan]

26. Did this replace the old "long" census form?

The long form used to go to one out of four households, and it asked very detailed questions.

I filled out the long form in at least three censuses. I never minded giving that information, and because I never had any further notice made of my responses, I believe this information was used only in aggregate form.

[TreasonousBastard]

37. Yes. While personal data is never revealed...

charts, tables and aggregate data went out.

The problem was that every year the data got a year older, so they began to send out a sample of about 250,000 questionnaires a month to keep the data fresh.

Every so often a few questions change, but the basic content is the same.

[Laelth]

33. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[phylny]

35. We got one, and I ended up filling it out.

I hope it helps my community in some way.

[csziggy]

41. Why not go to the source to find how it is used?

You can download the entire ACS Information Guide which will answer all the questions you have asked: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS_Information_Guide.pdf

Or go to the web page for the ACS: http://www.census.gov/acs/www/about_the_survey/american_community_survey/

Each time one of the surveys is produced, the information to be collected is approved by Congress:

The U.S. Constitution, Title 13, and the ACS

Conducting the ACS is covered by the constitution. The U.S. Constitution
states that “[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first
Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent
Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.” Pursuant to
this constitutional directive, Congress passed separate laws for each decennial
census and specified the information to be collected. In 1954, Congress
codified earlier census acts and all other statutes authorizing the decennial
census as Title 13, U.S. Code. From the very first census act, Congress sought
the collection of more information than just a headcount.

The current legal authority for collecting these data resides in Title 13 of the
U.S. Code or the “Census Act.” The Census Act provides the Census Bureau
with legal authority to conduct the decennial census and delegates broad
discretionary authority to the Secretary of Commerce for determining the
manner of conducting the census. This authority has been redelegated by the
Secretary to the Director of the Census Bureau. Even though Congress has
granted this broad discretionary authority, the questions asked in the census
and ACS are determined by what statistics are needed to implement a vast
array of federal programs.

Courts routinely have upheld the constitutionality of collecting census data,
characterizing as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an
enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The courts have held
that the Constitution, including the fourth and fifth amendments, does not
prohibit the gathering of other statistics in addition to the enumeration
every 10 years.

Page 12, ACS Information Guide, http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACS_Information_Guide.pdf

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. It's called being a citizen: your duties are not exhausted by yapping shite on online forums

[madfloridian]

44. I am a good citizen. I am also one who thinks for herself.

Please note I researched things about it from 3 sources, one suspect of course.

I don't appreciate questioning of my loyalty as a citizen, but I think more of us need to question very sharply some of recent intrusions into our privacy.

If any of us post much about our concerns here we are accused of hating Obama, and that bothers me very much.

I consider it being a thoughtful person who is not afraid to question authority no matter what party.

I seldom post here anymore because I do have opinions about both parties, and a honest well-researched post can turn into a fighting match.

[Recursion]

45. How do people think the government finds out things like...

... what percentage of the US has sought mental health treatment, or what percent are employed in basketweaving?

Somebody, at some point, has to ask a lot of people and do the stats on it.

[Mr.Bill]

46. Look at it this way,

if you don't fill it out, you and people similar to you will be under-represented when it comes to things like allocating government funding for various programs. Stand up and be counted. Be represented.

[Hekate]

47. Government agencies and family genealogists use census data extensively...

... genealogists use it as a means of learning more about their own antecedents.

The US Census has always been nosy, and some people have always objected, sometimes at the point of a gun. Not that long ago (Bush administration) at least one census-taker down South was murdered while trying to do their job.

From time to time the questions are changed -- 200 years ago they might have asked what trade you followed and if you were literate or not; 100 years ago they might have asked if you were on the telephone line; nowadays they might ask if you own a computer. I'm making these questions up, all except the one about how you earn your living. AFAIK they have always asked about spouses and children, how many of each, both living and dead -- likewise ethnicity/color -- likewise as many addresses as you can remember living at.

The point is that times change, and what the government wants to know also changes. When I look at the number of questions about various kinds of disabilities, something tells me that someone is collecting data that will be useful in defending the Americans with Disabilities Act the next time it comes up before a GOP congress that wants to gut it. I don't know what it tells you, but that's what I get out of it. I see data collection and I see a pattern and I think I can see why the government might want that information.

Personally, on behalf of whatever far-off descendent of mine decides to take up the family genealogy where my late mother left off, I'd be perfectly happy to answer one of those in-depth surveys.

Hekate

The US Constitution says this:

Article 1, Section 2 of the United States Constitution:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which
may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be
determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to
Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other
Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting
of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in
such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

Parts of it have been amended, and a good thing it is, but one thing remains very much in place: the government does a census every 10 years.

[PaxtonSahara]

50. I am a Census Worker and this thread did my heart good.

Thank you to all who have shown support for the Census and particularly the American Community Survey.

We work out in the field every day, all year long to collect important information for the country. The Census, CDC, Department of Justice Statistics, Labor Department and others benefit from our work to have "up to the minute" information to make the best decisions they can for the good of citizens across the nation. The Census still has the reputation of collecting more accurate information than private firms, even those that the Census must hire to do some of the work.

Much of this is due to dedicated Field Representatives. Dedicated, because, I'm telling you, it's a tough job and we don't get paid much. (And still, our wages have been frozen twice in the past 10 years for political reasons. We are thought of as "government", not people with jobs.) We are yelled at, sworn at, threatened with being shot, have doors slammed in our faces, get late night phone calls abusing us, have the police called on us and many other difficult things that make the job quite a challenge sometimes.

We've interviewed at drug houses and under bridges to make sure everyone's life counts. We are just as happy if you don't want to talk to us but will do the ACS survey on paper or online after we come to your door. However we can get you to do it, it's fine with us. (Other surveys don't have that option yet.)

We have struggled with Response Rates over the past campaign season and there are still those that think we are doing this for Obama. Yet we treat everyone with respect, the best we can. (We are human.)

But then there are you guys . . .

This month, a lady invited me in, I interviewed her while she decorated her tree and she gave me a bag of freshly baked cookies to take. I interviewed a couple who apologized to me for not being home when I came the first time. I interviewed a guy who just moved to town to study martial arts and his friends showed me videos so I could see how good he is. I interviewed many people who know of the importance of the information we collect, and even if they are busy, take a few minutes to participate.

So thank you to all of you who have helped us to do our jobs, including those that posted with encouragement and good information. You are the ones that make the job worthwhile and this country great.

[dawg day]

52. My aunt and uncle were field reps in rural Ohio

... and got some good and bad responses (bad including having dogs set on them).

They enjoyed it anyway, and thought (correctly) that they had contributed to the "commonweal."

[littlebit]

55. I received one earlier this year.

I never filled it out. Eventually someone from the census bureau showed up at my house. I told her I wasn't going to answer most of the questions and she was ok with it.