When if ever does abortion make you uncomfortable/uneasy?

[Snake Alchemist]

Thought this would be an interesting topic to bring up considering the current legislative attack that seems to be taking place. This may not be popular, but for me personally, my point is around the 5 month mark. At that point you've got a functioning nervous system, thumb sucking, facial expressions, etc. Before that it's just a group of cells so it doesn't bother me. Just curious about other opinions.

[we can do it]

1. Never, Its None of My Business

[hifiguy]

24. +1 It is simply none of my concern, nor should it be.

The only person in a position to make a decision is the woman who is pregnant.

[southernyankeebelle]

56. I do think about it being a woman. However, I may not want it for me but I don't feel it is my

place to tell others who are in a different position what to do. I am sure they do not make the decision lightly. I thank god I never had to be in that position. You never know what you will do. But it is up to the woman plain and simple. It is her body.

[hifiguy]

61. Agreed 100%

[IphengeniaBlumgarten]

34. The OP assumes that it is our business to judge

It seems to be that abortion should be a private matter involving the woman, her partner, her doctor, and, perhaps, if she wants, her spiritual advisor.

We have gone astray when we think it is the business of legislators or posters to a newsgroup to judge her decision.

[randome]

58. It's the business of a woman and a coin flip, if she wants!

Regressives often point out how biology has favored men but when it comes to women's biology, we think we should have a say.

Utter nonsense.

[southernyankeebelle]

150. Your so right. Besides who are we to judge another person's decision. We aren't in their shoes.

[Mimosa]

184. ^ Amen ^

Nobody 'likes' abortion. But there can be many reasons -including a woman's health or some other situation which makes it her only viable option.

I wish more younger women would place healthy children up for adoption rather than aborting the fetuses but it is not my right to decide for other individuals or their families.

[dana_b]

95. I'm with you n/t

[closeupready]

113. Oh, sheez.

[we can do it]

189. So, You Think Other People's Personal Decisions Should Somehow Involve You?

just wow

[randome]

2. Doesn't matter, if you're a man.

It's still a woman's body and she should have absolute control over what to do with said body.

[Snake Alchemist]

5. So the day before birth would not bother you? nt

[alittlelark]

9. You are kidding... There is not a doctor in this country that would do that!

[Snake Alchemist]

13. I didn't say there was.

The poster seemed to indicate that there was no point that could be given where they would be uncomfortable.

[Neue Regel]

155. You're kidding, right?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20028896-504083.html

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, a Philadelphia doctor, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and were then killed with scissors, reports CBS affiliate KYW.

Gosnell, 69, made millions of dollars over 30 years, performing as many illegal, late-term abortions as he could, prosecutors said. State regulators ignored complaints about him and failed to visit or inspect his clinic since 1993, but no charges were warranted against them, District Attorney Seth Williams said.

Gosnell "induced labor, forced the live birth of viable babies in the sixth, seventh, eighth month of pregnancy and then killed those babies by cutting into the back of the neck with scissors and severing their spinal cord," Williams said.

"There were bags and bottles holding aborted fetuses were scattered throughout the building," Williams said. "There were jars, lining shelves, with severed feet that he kept for no medical purpose."

[alittlelark]

168. After reading that I assume you understand he was NOT

a doctor in any sense of the word. He was a sociopathic criminal. The article shows him to be a demented man.

[Neue Regel]

171. You said, "There is not a doctor in this country that would do that!"

In response to being asked if you were okay with a baby being aborted one day before birth. Clearly there was at least one doctor who was willing to do what you said "no doctor in this country would do."

Kermit Gosnell went to medical school and was licensed by the state of Pennsylvania. He was clearly a doctor. You can't claim he wasn't a "real" doctor just because his actions leave a less-than-favorable impression.

[alittlelark]

177. He was as much a doctor as the the Nazi 'doctors'.

They were 'real' doctors too. They were also sociopaths.

If that Doctor had chosen another profession he would STILL be a sociopathic serial killer.

You are picking nits.

[uppityperson]

170. Back alley abortionist murdering liveborn full term infants? Oh yeah, he's such a good example.

A good example of what laws are meant to prevent. You did see " illegal" in what you posted, right?

Now, find us a legitimate doctor who would do that legally. I'll wait and check back later to see if you can find one.

[Neue Regel]

172. He wasn't a "back alley abortionist"

He operated a clinic in the middle of a neighborhood. You're using the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. He doesn't fit your idea of a doctor so he's not a "real" doctor. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

You'd be surprised at how little oversight there actually is. See here, for example:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-01-30-abortion-clinics-oversight_N.htm

Yet Delaware regulators cannot say if Atlantic Women's Medical Center — where Gosnell worked one day a week for a number of years — suffers from similar health and safety deficiencies because abortion providers are not subject to the kind of routine sanitary and safety inspections that restaurants, beauty salons and tattoo parlors get.

Abortion clinics do not fall under the definition of medical facilities in the state that require routine inspections, like free-standing surgery centers, according to the Delaware Division of Public Health.

The state's Division of Professional Regulation, meanwhile, only investigates complaints against doctors, "not facilities," said Division Director James Collins.

Mark A. Meister Sr., executive director of the Medical Society of Delaware, said he did not know of any agency in the state that regulates abortion clinics or similar medical clinic facilities in Delaware, which he conceeded was "hard to believe."

"You are asking an excellent question," he said. "The answer may be at this point in time there is no regulatory authority over a clinic or organization like that."

More at the link

But go ahead, keep on believing that abortion clinics are held to a high standard of safety, cleanliness, and ethical behavior. Pennsylvania didn't inspect any abortion clinics for 15 years because it was too politically sensitive a topic.

[uppityperson]

181. He had been in trouble before and they should have shut him down a long time ago. Since what he was

doing was highly illegal, as well as unhygienic and dangerous, he was a back alley abortionist. You do understand that term does not mean people doing illegal abortions only in back alleys, right?

Is this conversation about what is legal or what is illegal, since you bring up those breaking the law?

I never said he is not a "real" doctor. I said he is a back alley abortionist. Doing unhygienic, illegal abortions, hiding what he did, charging a shitload. Yes, is he is a "real" doctor, also a murderer.

[Snake Alchemist]

176. That is absolutely horrifying. nt

[randome]

12. Doesn't matter if it bothers me.

It's STILL her decision over what to do with HER body.

[Snake Alchemist]

15. That was not the question in the OP though. nt

[randome]

19. It's one of those things that is out of my hands.

So my feelings on the matter, as much as they might be taken into account, do not REQUIRE being taken into account since it's not my body that is involved.

The very first point should be made that a woman can do whatever she wants to do with her own body as regards pregnancy. After that is settled, then we can talk about men's feelings. Until then, no, there is no point at which I would feel uncomfortable with a woman making a decision about her own body.

[Snake Alchemist]

22. It's like the wars the US wages in the ME. I can't really make a difference so what is my opinion

worth really? Nothing.

[randome]

36. I was thinking of that same metaphor!

But it doesn't quite hold up. You CAN do something to influence politics and wars. And you CAN try to influence what a woman decides to do with her body.

But any conversation that approaches that subject should start from, at a minimum, the absolute bedrock principle that it is always a woman's final decision and no one else's.

[Snake Alchemist]

38. TBTB mostly control politics and war now.

Not sure how much if any influence we have over those anymore.

[NYC Liberal]

138. The difference is: with abortion, you have no RIGHT to "make a difference."

With wars, you do have that right.

[enlightenment]

97. Sticking my nose in -

no. It wouldn't bother me.

[Brettongarcia]

158. So your intent is to put us on a slippery slope? One day before birth; then the day before that?

And then the next second, we're good Catholics? Condemning any abortion after the day of conception?

Much of the original law allowing abortion set a limit: beginning of 3rd trimester. Seems reasonable.

[Dokkie]

76. wtf

I will only accept that statement if women also took full control of the child when its born. You cannot eat your cake and have it.

[randome]

86. Same applies for 'getting' a woman pregnant, then.

If a man impregnates a woman, he is taking that risk. If he doesn't want a child, he should make damned sure he doesn't get her pregnant.

[Happyhippychick]

3. When men try to make the rules

[The Magistrate]

7. Hear Hear, Ma'am

[Happyhippychick]

11. Thank you!

[obamanut2012]

4. Abortion is a legal medical procedure

for women;s health.

It doesn;t make me uncomfortable at all.

[Snake Alchemist]

6. So all pregnant women are unhealthy? nt

[The Magistrate]

17. If You Really Want To Pursue This Line, Sir....

Pregnancy and childbirth have a much higher rate of mortality and adverse health consequences than either abortion or not being pregnant do.

[Snake Alchemist]

18. So Sir, you are indeed saying that all pregnant women are unhealthy. nt

[Happyhippychick]

21. If you are sincerely asking for opinions, why are you then arguing with them?

After all, we are all pro choice here, aren't we?

[Snake Alchemist]

26. I'm trying to get some details into their thought process.

I've explained why I make my distinctions. I find it hard to believe that people are completely blase up until birth, but I could be wrong.

[uppityperson]

94. I wish but obviously not.

[The Magistrate]

25. Feel Free To Provide Us All the Amusement at Your Own Expense You Desire, Sir

"There might be cake!"

[Snake Alchemist]

28. Please Sir, try to stay on topic.

It's an open discussion.

[The Magistrate]

44. The Spectacle You Present Is the Sole Point Of Interest, Sir

[Happyhippychick]

29. I'm having some popcorn. I had to duck out to make a call.

[The Magistrate]

32. Heading Out Soon For Groceries With the Wife, Ma'am, Myself

But this one looks like an all-nighter....

[Happyhippychick]

40. It could take five months, too.

[smokey nj]

71. No, he's saying pregnancy poses more risks to a woman's life and health than abortion.

[newspeak]

190. he did not say ALL

the argument was established in sweden when abortion came into law. The percentage of women mortality during pregnancy. Also women mortality because of illegal abortions. The younger the female, the higher mortality rate. Also, if a woman is in her late thirties, forties-higher percentage of complications.

We had a case in california, I believe it was in the early nineties. A woman who was pregnant was in an accident. The doctor informed her family that she would have a better chance of surviving if she aborted. The family agreed. But, an anti-abortion male lawyer stopped the procedure just long enough that the woman and fetus were dead.

It is not the government's place to decide-it is the woman's, her doctor, her family's-but not the government.

[uppityperson]

93. "legal medical procedure"s are not always done on unhealthy people.

[Snake Alchemist]

115. Per the poster: "Abortion is a legal medical procedure for women's health. " nt

[uppityperson]

126. Doing something to stay healthy does not mean you were unhealthy to start with.

Teeth cleaning is a legal dental procedure for the patient's health. Does this mean that someone who gets their teeth cleaned is unhealthy?

[Snake Alchemist]

129. Not cleaning your teeth will result in tooth and gum disease.

There may be complications with pregnancy and it may go very smoothly.

[uppityperson]

132. Nope.

Not cleaning your teeth may result in tooth and gum disease. Not getting an abortion may result in physical and/or emotional dis-ease.

Either way, doing something to remain healthy does not mean you were unhealthy to start with.

[Brettongarcia]

156. Getting a preventative flu or other shot, is a medical procedure, performed on a healthy person

Many medical/health procedures are performed on healthy persons

It is not necessary to be sick, to benefit from many common medical/health procedures

[Vincardog]

8. Always. No one WANTS abortions. The women who have them are not HAPPY about it

they are a sad thing that should be MINIMIZED.
That is why all rational people support sex education and responsible birth (and disease) control.

[Snake Alchemist]

10. Not according to some of the other posters.

I admit that I am not always bothered by it. Early on it is not much more than a collection of cells.

[Vincardog]

16. I have not seen anyone happy about abortions, IF you don't like them Don't have one

What is your purpose stirring this pot?

[Nye Bevan]

141. Isn't "stirring the pot" expected on a political discussion board?

Or should we only discuss issues that we all agree on?

[Vincardog]

153. Discussion implies someone is willing to be persuaded. Stirring the spot implies

someone is shit disturbing.
Example when I posted that NO ONE wanted abortions to happen; the OP answered that some did.

That is a lie in my opinion and is an example of stirring the pot with the objective is disrupting and creating shit.
Notice the way the topic of sex education and contraception for the purpose of MINIMIZING the unfortunate cases of abortion is ignored.

[Snake Alchemist]

173. Please point out where I posted that some did. nt

[uppityperson]

182. Here you go. The post ahead of yours, and your reply "not according to some of the other posters"

Vincardog
8. Always. No one WANTS abortions. The women who have them are not HAPPY about it

they are a sad thing that should be MINIMIZED.
That is why all rational people support sex education and responsible birth (and disease) control.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=373829
Not according to some of the other posters.

[Snake Alchemist]

183. And I hold to the first part of people wanting them, but not the second part of people being happy.

Heck, I want them to end pregnancies early on. They are an important contraceptive tool. I may be uncomfortable with it in the later months, but that is just my opinion.

[Vincardog]

191. There you said it. You said "I want them to end pregnancies". Shame on you for wanting ABORTIONS

I want all unwanted pregnancies to be avoided thru proper use of birth control.
but that is just my opinion.
WTF is up with that?

[sinkingfeeling]

88. I disagree. No one wants the circumstances that might lead to an abortion.

Long ago, my birth control failed while I was taking the drug methotrexate (yes the same one in the news, used to treat cancers). Look up the side effects of becoming pregnant while on the drug. I elected to have an abortion. I have absolutely zero regrets about that decision. Never had any regrets. Yes, it was a sad and painful experience that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but necessary.

[TBF]

101. I am taking a similar drug now (Humira) - my dad was on Methotrexate for his arthritis

back when it was experimental (in the 80s) at least for this disease. I was cautioned before I went on Humira, as he was with Methotrexate, that getting pregnant while on the drug would be highly inadvisable. I am in my 40s and have been blessed with two children so the decision was easy for me - I take birth control now. Thank heaven it exists and I have access to it.

After seeing a sonogram of my son at about 3 months (maybe a little earlier - date uncertain), it would be very difficult to have the procedure. But it should be every woman's choice and I stand with the folks who are pro-choice and advocating birth control.

[Vincardog]

154. I did not suggest that you or anyone should have your choices limited.

My point was that in every case I am aware of Abortion was a choice that women made as the "best" of poor options.
That is what I meant by "no one WANTS an abortion.
The OP is implying that you or others purposefully created the conditions SO you could have an abortion.
As if the abortion in and of itself was a desirable thing rather than a sad necessity.

[Nye Bevan]

139. "Fuck rare" is the response of more than one DUer to "safe, legal and rare":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=272318

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=276069

In the thread in which these posts appear I was expressing my wish that contraception would be so widely available, and widely used, along with sex education, that unwanted pregnancies would be rare, so abortions would be rare. In other words, I would prefer people to use condoms than have abortions.

And I am still baffled that DUers would take exception to this.

[uppityperson]

147. The problem I have is that "use condoms than have abortions" is wayyyy too simplistic.

Abortions need to be as rare as they are needed. Like cholecystectomies. As they are needed, they should be done. Legally. Hygienically.

The "use condoms than have abortions" statement seems to indicate that a majority of women who have abortions decided simply to not use condoms, would prefer having an abortion than using a condom.

Yes, there are those who get pregnant because they don't use contraception, but "use a condom rather than have an abortion" is condescending.

And "rare" is too vague a term, too subjective. Abortions should be available as needed, safe, legal, hygienic.

[Nye Bevan]

151. I'm in favor of better sex education and wider availability of contraception,

and especially programs that distribute condoms for free.

I am in favor of this because it will lead to fewer unwanted pregnancies and a reduction in STDs.

This point of view really should not be controversial.

[uppityperson]

152. Of course. "rare" is not an objective, measurable number, that is the issue with using it

[eShirl]

14. During.

[The Magistrate]

20. What Bothers You Is Of No Consequence To Anyone Else, Sir

No one needs to pay the slightest bit of attention, let alone deference to it. It is the one thing you may be sure no one facing a choice in this matter will be concerned with in the slightest.

[Snake Alchemist]

31. So you have no opinions on things you cannot affect?

I have opinions on all things in the heavens and on Earth.

[The Magistrate]

39. It Must Keep You Awfully Busy Then, Sir....

How it leaves you time to trot out tired old wheezes like this is a wonderment....

[Snake Alchemist]

43. I must not be alone, Sir. DU covers a swath of varied topics. nt

[The Magistrate]

49. The Strong Are Strongest Alone, Sir

"Children make the best opponents at scrabble, as they are both easy to beat and fun to cheat."

[Brettongarcia]

159. The Bible told Christians to be "wise as serpents." Or "sly as snakes" some might say

So you, "snake," are a Christian? Snaking surreptiously into DU with allegedly high moral purpose?

Personally, I've always been troubled however by that biblical command: to be sly as a snake. That always seemed to conflict with the rest of the Bible. That pictured snakes as being from the devil himself.

Any quick thoughts, in passing, on this curious subject? Without going too far afield or off topic?

[RZM]

23. There are couple of things about abortion that can be difficult and sad

One is the notion of regret, meaning women who have one and then later wish they hadn't. I think that comparatively few women who considered abortion and then rejected the idea would say years later that they wished they had aborted their child (though I'm sure there are a few). But I have known people who had abortions in their teenage years and then regretted that decision. One woman I met about 10 years after her abortion. When we talked about it, I could tell that she really wished she hadn't done it. She really wasn't over it and it caused her a lot of pain and sadness. I thought that was unfortunate.

Another difficult scenario is when the prospective parents disagree about whether or not an abortion should be performed. I do feel sympathy for men who wish to have a child but are overruled by their partner's desire for an abortion. Obviously in such situations the decision must rest with the woman alone, but I imagine it would be very difficult for a man who wants to be a father to be powerless in that situation. It should be a woman's choice but I disagree with any argument that would tell a man in such situation to sit down, shut up, and take it without complaining. The emotional pain in such a situation would be very difficult, but unfortunately, there's no real way around it. That's why partners must discuss this thing ahead of time and come to an understanding before a child is conceived.

[Snake Alchemist]

33. Thank you for an honest and thought out reply.

You make good points.

[uppityperson]

96. There are women who considered and rejected an abortion and then got a later term one.

I've a friend who did this. She was going to get one at 8 weeks and ran into the local anti-choicers. She canceled her appointment and ended up getting one several weeks later. She said she realized that it was the best decision for her and really resented those who emotionally manipulated her into putting it off as the later term one was much more difficult all the way around.

[LadyHawkAZ]

27. it makes me uncomfortable

when I'm standing at a clinic, nose to nose with a pack of rabid nutjobs waving signs and leaking hatred and pious insanity from the eyes, and I'm wondering which one(s) has the gun.

[Snake Alchemist]

35. That makes complete sense. nt

[Greybnk48]

30. Never. n/t

[PlanetBev]

37. When assholes try to outlaw it

When women die from botched, illegal procedures brought about by holier than thou polititians and bible-beaters.

[eShirl]

42. +1

[AngryAmish]

41. Sex selective abortions?

In general I am uncomfortable that so many fetus' with Down's Syndrome are aborted. The people I know with Down's are very happy and seem to enjoy being alive.

[Snake Alchemist]

45. This is actually what brought this topic up to some degree.

My wife and I are discussing what we would do if the amnio shows something.

[randome]

51. Then both of you have my best wishes.

But what happens if you disagree on what to do? From my point of view, your wife has veto power over your wishes and, in my humble opinion, you should accept that.

[AngryAmish]

54. I'd have a big problem with that

My wife and I make our decisions together. That is kinda the point of being married.

[randome]

60. But if both of you can't agree, what then?

There is nothing wrong with discussion and trying to come to a decision together. But in the event of a tie, it's the woman's call, in my book.

[Snake Alchemist]

55. That is part of the discussion too.

We have pretty much agreed that it is 50/50 and if we disagree then we will both plead our cases and see what happens. Usually there are points that one has considered and the other has not.

[Lars39]

77. It can't be 50/50, 'cause you can't die or be maimed

during pregnancy, labor and delivery.

[Snake Alchemist]

79. My wife and I just have that kind of relationship.

We always find a way to come to a mutual decision. Tough to explain.

She's a mentalist though (therapist) so she may just be using some mentalism on me.

[JSnuffy]

108. Of course it can...

...

You might not think it should be that way but it absolutely can happen.

[Morning Dew]

66. Unfortunately, the DU polling feature isn't currently available.

That's how I'd go about my family planning decisions.

[sinkingfeeling]

46. It doesn't. While you might like to draw a line in the sand and say that once

there is a face or thumb sucking or something, that really doesn't apply in the decision making process that women (and women alone) go through. What counts beyond the first trimester, is what the pregnancy is doing to the woman's body or the health/ future wellbeing of the fetus and the mother. Decisions on whether or not to end the pregnancy are private.

[LeftishBrit]

47. I tend to go along with British law here...

I think that, except for exceptional circumstances (severe threat to mother's life or health; baby would be born with terminal illness such as Tay-Sachs, etc.; late-reported incest or rape), abortions should not be performed after 24 weeks, when foetuses may become viable outside the womb. However, this is almost irrelevant, as hardly any abortions ARE performed after 24 weeks, or even after 20 weeks, except under such exceptional circumstances.

[Snake Alchemist]

50. Seems sensible on the surface. nt

[Nye Bevan]

143. I love how the British leave religion out of it.

And view it as a medical issue.

[jwirr]

48. Truthfully - when it comes to me personally. Been there done that and often feel guilty. But then

I am older and that may explain it.

[Ikonoklast]

52. Whenever Republicans make this very same argument.

They aren't fooling anyone with it, either.

[Snake Alchemist]

57. There is no argument. nt

[Ikonoklast]

62. You are correct, there is none.

Yet you want one.

[Snake Alchemist]

63. This is what I can't stand about DU.

You can't try to open up a discussion about complicated topics and feelings without getting accused of something. Some people have made some very honest answers like sex selection and down's syndrome, but they are far and few in-between.

[CTyankee]

64. What I want to open up as a discussion is why you care enough about this to start a thread

on it? You want very honest answers and so do I.

[Happyhippychick]

69. Word. Me thinks it's to cause infighting. But I'm a little

sensitive these days considering war is being waged on women.

[randome]

73. Post #45.

[Ikonoklast]

67. Rule #1. Get Defensive And Mis-Direct. Awesome.

Anyone's opinion of the matter of abortion, if and when they feel uncomfortable is of no matter to anyone for any reason other than the person directly affected.


At what level do you get uncomfortable about sexually abusing children?

[Snake Alchemist]

72. Might as well shut down DU altogether or maybe make it a rule that we can't discuss things we cannot

affect.

[Ikonoklast]

81. All or none, I see.

When you get an reply that you dislike, annihilate everything.

No, you are garnering some responses in this thread questioning your real intent, and you don't seem to care for that turn of events.

It happens here all the time, get used to it.


That, too, is part of DU whether you like it or not.

[Snake Alchemist]

116. I do not believe that was my opinion, but alright. nt

[LanternWaste]

122. Yes... of course you may do that.

"You can't try to open up a discussion about complicated topics and feelings without getting accused of something..."

Yes... of course you may do that. It simply needs to predicated on sincerity rather than on the obvious and the disingenuous...

[Brettongarcia]

160. But I consider most of the pro-abortion remarks to be honest too

Are only anti-abortion remarks honest in your opinion?

[Snake Alchemist]

175. All genuine remarks are interesting. nt

[me b zola]

187. Women have been under attack for quite a while now

And if you don't mind most of us are fed-up with strangers inserting themselves into the most private areas of our lives. The constant demand that complete strangers have the right to make decisions for us isn't just maddening, its also alarming.

I know you say that this is about a decsion that you and your wife may have to make, but we are very used to those that are hostile to women approaching a subject in just the same manner that you have.

If you need the counsel of friends, please seek them out.

[MattBaggins]

53. right up until the age of 41

[Snake Alchemist]

59. ROFL. My parents would have probably agreed. nt

[The Doctor.]

65. There is a general level of discomfort

among doctors who do tend to also draw that line. But it's not a line drawn in stone.

Most OB/GYNs do not like the idea of performing an abortion after 24 weeks for many reasons, and many will refuse. There are some that do not refuse, but in most cases, a doctor will try to find out what the reason for the request is and do their best to inform the patient of any possible side-effects. They may even attempt to dissuade the patient either out of 'discomfort' or simple concern for the patient herself. As doctors have a duty to mitigate harm, the notion of aborting a viable fetus can be uncomfortable.

[Snake Alchemist]

75. Not sure your opinion is valid.

Considering your ability to regenerate .

Great post in all seriousness though.

[The Doctor.]

78. Lol... got me. n/t

[Snake Alchemist]

85. My wife just started watching the new series.

I had forgotten how much I liked Chris Eccleston as The Doctor. Probably in the minority on that one.

[Mariana]

164. He was brilliant.

We were heartbroken that he only did it for one season.

[Snake Alchemist]

174. Awesome, I'm glad I'm not alone. nt

[EFerrari]

80. These questions are never really about clinical considerations.

They are about controlling women.

The subtext is, how uncomfortable does the idea of sexually active women make you?

Abortions make me uncomfortable when they are not safe, legal and accessible. Any other consideration is not about abortion but about social control of women's agency.

[The Doctor.]

83. I'm quite comfortable with the idea of women being sexually active.

In fact I think they should be moreso.

[adigal]

68. Late term abortions bother me

I cannot think of any reason to abort, rather than have a birth, labor can be induced with pitocin.

[ecstatic]

70. After 24 weeks

Many babies can survive in the NICU at that point, and so many people would love to adopt. I think abortions should be done early on, but I don't plan to force my view on anyone else.

[abelenkpe]

98. Mothers having a late term abortion

do so because it is either a health risk to the mother, to a twin who is developing normally when one is not (to save the one developing normally) or because the baby has no chance of surviving outside the womb. It's not an easy procedure to arrange and to heap guilt on mothers who in almost every case wanted the child but had legitimate health reasons to go that route is sad.

[CTyankee]

102. I always have a problem with the "so many people would love to adopt" reference.

This often gets tossed around as a reason why a woman with an unwanted pregnancy "should" carry to term and give birth. It strikes me as regarding women as nothing more than "brood mares." If a woman who has an unwanted pregnancy wishes to give birth and give the child up for adoption, that is her decision. But to withhold her right to choose a termination on the grounds that some other woman can't conceive and wants to adopt is obnoxious.

[MH1]

167. Thank you. +1000.

There are other factors, too. The child WILL want to contact their biological mother at some point. Giving birth entails a lifetime connection that might not be wanted.

That said, I want contraception widely available and widely used so that abortions are rarely needed; and for abortion to be widely and easily accessible in the earliest stage of pregnancy, so 'late-term abortion' will be a consideration that doesn't even have to be made except for late-term complications and other extremely rare situations. Not because I have a problem with abortion (I don't) but because some people do, and thus make it difficult for the person having an abortion.

Ironically (and I think intentionally by some), the efforts to suppress contraception and access to abortion, make late(r)-term abortions more likely in more cases.

[CTyankee]

188. In the late 80s I worked with a therapist who had patients who had, as young women, had

had a pregnancy and were unmarried and they brought the pregnancy to term and gave up the baby for adoption. This therapist said these women struggled all their lives with that decision and even remembered the child when every birthday rolled around. They were miserable over the experience of going through a pregnancy and given birth, only to have the baby taken away in the hospital, some times sight unseen by the birth mother.

The right to lifers never talk about these women and the suffering they went through when they went through their traumas.

[HangOnKids]

121. Do You Know Any Woman Who Chose To Abort After 24 Weeks Just Because? Even Heard Of One?

I have four sisters and lots of girl friends and I have NEVER heard of anyone who elected to abort after 24 weeks unless the life of the mother was at stake. I mean really, have you ever been pregnant? 24 weeks is the 6 month mark, a pregnancy is 280 days or 10 lunar months, who carries a fetus 24 weeks and then just decides to abort? I've never heard of anyone doing that, the late term abortion myth by choice is just that, a MYTH.

[ecstatic]

162. I simply answered the OP's question

didn't say how often it happens, etc., and most importantly, I said it was MY opinion--not something I would hold anyone else to.

[Dokkie]

74. Never

I rather see a kid get aborted that have him/her grow up with a parent that doesnt want him/her. Life is hard enough as it is, lets not make it anymore more complicated by prevent women from using abortion.

[csziggy]

82. I've always thought that Roe v Wade got it pretty close to right

The first trimester, it's up to the woman, second is a little more problematic but should be determined by the status of the fetus and the health of the mother, third trimester if medically indicated. Since it has been forty years, maybe the medical information about viability and medical necessity have changed but from what I know, the general time frame has not.

But no matter WHEN during the pregnancy and abortion might be considered it should ALWAYS be a decision made between a woman and her doctor without government interference.

[saras]

84. Never, really. It's just not emotionally loaded, and I prefer it that way.

First, it's not my business unless it's my body.
Second, it's something that happens in context. Middle-class America isn't anywhere near my standards of good or normal. So everything there is a horrible compromise at best. We live in a world where nearly everything about consumer capitalism appears bizarrely corrupt, dysfunctional, and insane to me, so it's always necessary for me to think my way though these things. American cliche emotions don't work for me - the entire set of pre-neocon European attitudes towards sex seem hugely more grounded and sensible, although they are getting beaten down by corporatism too. So the entire issue appears, to me, utterly manufactured by the neocons, starting in the early seventies in rejection of feminism, civil rights, sexual liberation, and personal liberty, among other things.

For example, I don't buy the argument that infanticide coarsens people, unless it's something you're doing on the side, in a culture that disapproves of it in practice as well as in talk, for fun. In the real world, the fact that it's happening indicates that culturally, people are already at that level, and it's the CAUSES of that that need to change. In that world, it's incredibly UNlikely that being "more moral" about infanticide will change the rest of society in the necessary direction.

Or in blunter language, if you live somewhere that people all around you are so desperate that they have to kill babies, and killing infants seems normal, NOT killing the babies is not going to help your odds of survival. It's a good result to desire, but creating an individual example of the result exerts no force back on the governing situation.

If you live somewhere that you need abortions, whether because of ignorant sex, coerced sex, failure of birth control, or some other reason, NOT having that abortion is not going to change the causes of your ignorance, the forces that coerced you, the quality of birth control available, or in most cases, whatever else it was that motivated you. If you want to get rid of abortions, make them unnecessary without judging what people do to make them unnecessary.

The dominionist belief, on the other hand, is that the problem is original sin on the part of the woman, and the appropriate interim action until the Second Coming is that men control the women and the women suffer, both as God commands. They assert that having, and raising, the baby is deserved punishment. More liberal fundies believe that the problem is ignorance on the part of the woman, and that the experience of having and raising the baby will somehow be educational for the mother. Note that the fate of the baby is not a significant concern in either position. Original sin and all that.

[Iggo]

87. When people ask me to qualify my support for choice.

Almost always, they're looking for something to attack.

And so no, I'm not going there.

[ieoeja]

89. Never.

Took a drive through bible belt country last weekend. Saw an anti-abortion sign every two or three miles. By the twentieth or so I blurted out, "Jesus Fucking Christ what is wrong with these sick fuckers and their obsession with abortion?!?"

The 15 year old next to me, and with whom I almost never talk politics, replied, "I was thinking the same thing. This is just weird."

And it is. Where does this shit come from? They are absolutely obsessed with abortion. They seem to drink, eat and breathe abortion. They must spend every waking moment thinking about abortion. And probably dreaming of abortions all night.

I grew up in that part of the country in the '60s and '70s. There was *none* of this back then. Seriously. Where does this weird ass shit come from?

[HangOnKids]

100. I had the EXACT Reaction Driving Through Florida On My Way To My Pops Funeral

Where this weird ass shit comes from mystifies me. I wanted to shoot everyone of those fucking billboards.

[hedgehog]

179. Because the white race is in trouble because all the white wimmins

is getting abortions instead of having babies!

[AtomicKitten]

90. I respect/trust women to make their own decisions because it's their business, not mine.

[ingac70]

91. If I had to get one.....

Why can't people MYOB?

[SomethingFishy]

92. Always... but it's called "pro-choice" for a reason.

Abortions should be safe, legal and RARE. Birth control should be free and available. Whatever my personal feelings are on the issue don't matter, what matters is I have no right to make decisions for someone else.

And anyone who thinks "abstinence education" works is an idiot. Sex is one of the great joys in life. If "God" didn't want me having sex all the time he would have made it feel miserable.

[uppityperson]

99. Never. That is why I have abortion parties regularly. Tupperware? Pshaw. Abortions are more fun!

The games you can play while you wait your turn, the treats you can make, all are wonderful fun! Jello jigglers in the shape of fetuses. Spaghetti with placenta shaped meatballs. Pin the penis on the random stranger. Musical wombs. What fun!

My friends so look forward to these parties that they go have unprotected sex with random strangers hoping to be able to participate!

[HangOnKids]

103. For The Win!

You rock!

[CTyankee]

104. Right after they have their mani-pedis at the spa!

And lunch at the club, of course, with the other "girls."

[ieoeja]

106. It has reached the point where the abortinazis should just be mocked.

Their obsession with this issue is turning them into a parody of themselves.

[Happyhippychick]

112. Don't forget "coat hanger" bingo! The winner gets to pick a standard wire one or one that holds

Pants, too!

[Scout]

105. when it's illegal. n/t

[izquierdista]

107. Last trimester

For an uncomplicated pregnancy. If you have a woman who is 6 months along and healthy, her inquiring about an abortion could signal something else going wrong: abusive or recently absconded spouse, depression, economic problems, stress, etc.

Of course, Republicans aren't going to ante up one thin dime to address these other possible problems, they "just say NO!"

While she is the ultimate 'decider', there should be enough of a safety net so that she can be sure that life is not going to get a lot worse for her if she carries to term.

[pipi_k]

109. As I read your OP it was obvious

that some people don't truly understand that it's entirely possible to be uneasy (or squeamish) about something and...at the same time hold absolutely NO judgement toward others for whatever they do.

The whole idea of abortion does make me uneasy. I almost had one back in 1974, but could not go through with it.

HOWEVER...

and this is the important part...

that does not mean I have the right to tell someone else what she can or cannot do.

Too many people live in a black/white...either/or world and don't know that it's possible to have very mixed feelings about a lot of issues.

So the bottom line here is...

I could not do it. Other women should be free to do what I could not.

And I would never judge them.

[Snake Alchemist]

117. You are exaclty right. I'm glad someone actually understood it. nt

[Nye Bevan]

144. Is it OK to judge people who choose to have 20 children? (nt)

[Texasgal]

110. I would never be uncomfortable/uneasy

about YOUR body! It's none of MY business.

[Warren DeMontague]

111. When I wake up and discover I have a uterus and am pregnant, because then it might be my call

other than that, I will defer to the woman in whom the pregnancy is taking place. Every time.

[HangOnKids]

127. Good On You Warren

Hero for the day! YEAH Warren.

[lunatica]

114. I think almost everyone is uncomfortable and uneasy about abortions

It's not a fucking picnic for anyone.

[DesertRat]

118. Abortion makes me very uneasy from day one

But that's FOR ME. That's what being pro-choice is all about. It's about a woman's personal choice and it's no one else's business.

[Autumn]

119. I get uneasy whenever anyone

decides that they need to decide what a woman does with her body. It's very easy to solve this problem, if you don't want an abortion or don't believe they should be done, don't have one. But no one has a right to tell any woman that she can't have one if she wants or needs one.

[HangOnKids]

131. WORD! n/t

[LanternWaste]

120. Valid, peer-reviewed, legal medical procedures do not make me feel uneasy.

Valid, peer-reviewed, legal medical procedures which someone else may engage of their own accord do not make me feel uneasy as long as the doctor is competent.

[One_Life_To_Give]

123. In the back alley

or when a young girl begs her boyfriend to beat her with a bat hoping to induce one.

And whenever women feel they must use it to please their boyfriends who can't be bothered to use condoms.

[ladywnch]

124. when it's MY feet in the stirrups. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

125. An early abortion is simply removing a clump of cells.

No more of an issue than cutting ones toenails.

A late abortion, on the other hand, is ending a human life. A very different proposition, and a much bigger deal, even when there is a very good reason for carrying it out. I don't think anyone can be completely indifferent to ending a human life, even when it is done for the best of reasons.

[Snake Alchemist]

128. I'm in the same camp. I am not lobbying for any change in current laws though. nt

[Nye Bevan]

135. Me neither (nt)

[tledford]

130. It *ALWAYS* makes me uncomfortable...

...but it's none of my FUCKING BUSINESS as I'm not the pregnant woman!

Sheesh!

[kelly1mm]

133. Sex selection abortions bother me, along

with any genetic selection based abortions. I could see the day if/when the genetic markers for sexual orientation are identifible, and some people wishing to terminate LGTG pregnancies. Those things do bother me.

[Snake Alchemist]

134. Gattaca. nt

[kelly1mm]

136. I remember that movie --- king of a high tech Brave New World. That type of

genetic manipulation bothers me.

[Brettongarcia]

165. In a sense, nature makes similar decisions; many very deformed embryos abort or expire naturally

[KamaAina]

137. Abortions based on prenatal testing for a disability

often Down syndrome.

The basic problem is that the counseling* women recieve after such a test result is all about how miserable and horrible life with a Down's child is, giving them a hard nudge in the direction of choosing abortion.

[Nye Bevan]

142. If a woman chooses to have a baby with Down's syndrome, I respect that choice.

But I also respect her choice if she chooses to terminate the pregnancy.

[NYC Liberal]

140. It doesn't. nt

[Ship of Fools]

145. Abortion On Demand.

No Exceptions, No Apologies.

I had an abortion at 23 weeks. Had I not had the abortion, I would
be dead.

Thank you for your concern.

[Dawson Leery]

146. I do find the Roman Caliphate and the Evangelical opposition

to abortion due to rape to be outright disgusting.

My mother does not like the idea of abortion, though she understands why it must exist.
Only the individual should decide their healthcare.

[Dawson Leery]

201. kick

[Avalux]

148. Only when asshole men try to keep women from getting them.

The procedure itself; it's just like any other medical procedure and it's none of my concern if a woman chooses this option. It's her right, and it should be provided like any other procedure.

And politicians need to SHUT THE FUCK UP about it.

[tammywammy]

149. Never.

It's a private decision between a woman and her doctor - including 3rd trimester abortions.

[bitchkitty]

157. As a recovering Catholic, abortion does bother me.

But you know what bothers me more? Men trying to tell women what they can do with their bodies. My choice, were I to get pregnant, would be not to abort. But I can't make that choice for other women.

[etherealtruth]

161. It's irrelevant

The only time it has mattered was when I had a choice to make about my body ... and the choices I have made are nobody's damned business

[ibegurpard]

163. when I actually have a stake in one

until then it's none of my fucking business

[Blue_In_AK]

166. It's none of my business.

It should be every woman's individual choice.

[Pornograph]

169. It does make just a little bit queasy, I was probably a Jain in a former life..

don't even kill a spider if I can capture it and take it outside but I'd never tell any woman she can't have freedom of choice. The extent of my "religious" beliefs is a variation on the "golden rule"...don't do something to someone else you wouldn't want done to you. It's a very slight but significantly different way to state it, I think.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

178. Personally

Personally I would n't have an abortion but I wouldn't stop anyone else having one. It's their business. I don't think that any gray haired old man should tell a woman what she can do or can't do.

[jillan]

180. When a woman has an abortion we never really know the reason why, do we?

So it is none of our damn business.

[donheld]

185. When it's mine.

[me b zola]

186. When if ever does inserting yourself into women's Dr's offices make you uncomfortable/uneasy?

[elehhhhna]

192. When they do the dilation. Feels creepy.

[varelse]

193. when it is done with a coat hanger

because the safe, legal, private option has been removed (or isn't affordable).

[DiverDave]

194. Um, being a guy, I dont have any say at all

NONE.
I believe that I control MY BODY, and I suck at it so bad.
I shudder to think of the stress of controlling someone else's

[PeaceNikki]

195. Never. Abortion is a moral choice that liberates women and protects families.

[phylny]

196. For me personally? I would have had a hard time having an abortion,

but for others? Not my business.

[Brettongarcia]

197. Emotionally, it is hard. But it is often the Rational choice. Heart AND mind.

Heart AND mind are essential, to being a full human person.

[pitohui]

198. abortion that late is done to save the life of the mother

so while it might make me sad it doesn't make me "queasy," since i have this odd believe than adult woman is a valid human being whose life is worth saving

[uponit7771]

199. I resepct your question, it never has to be black or white. I also respect a womens right to choose

..and if I had any REAL say in the matter it would be around the time the brain starts to develop sub conscience

[La Lioness Priyanka]

200. sex selections. however nothing bothers me enough to legislate it

late term abortions are needed to protect the health of the mother. there are good arguments to be made, that a child born into a family who doesn't want it for its gender, maybe better off aborted as a fetus.