Is NanceGreggs still a member of DU. Stephanie Miller read one of her rants on air this morning.

[Fla Dem]

I know at some point NanceGreggs ran into some buzzsaws here and I kinda got the impression she no longer posts here. But just wanted to say Congrats to her for the great rant that was read this morning. Here's a link to the rant:

ODS – Obama Derangement Syndrome

If you believe the following, you are probably suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS):

If Obama said it, it’s a lie. When it’s proven to be the truth, he got lucky – because it’s just a crazy coincidence that his lie turned out to be the truth after all. If he knew it was the truth, he would never have said it in the first place.

If Obama makes a speech about a specific issue, he’s just spewing pretty words. If Obama doesn’t speak on a specific issue, he’s trying to hide something. Or he should have spoken about something else entirely, because when he gets specific about one issue, that means he’s ignoring all of the really important issues he should be speaking about – those issues being whatever it was he didn’t mention.

More>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.democratsforprogress.com/tag/nance-rants/

[madamesilverspurs]

1. It was a link to "Nance Rants"

that first brought me to DU.

Very much miss her presence here!

[Bobbie Jo]

8. Yep.

I found DU the same way in 2006.

Miss her voice here.

[CreekDog]

333. She is AWESOME! Nobody can make a strawman look more foolish than she can!

[Rex]

343. Long before all this ODS talk, NG was making me fall out of my chair

LOLing with her rants on the BFEE!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Nance is still a registered member; I've seen her post but it's rare. I miss her...

This is a great rant!

Nance!

Thanks for posting this, my dear Fla Dem!

[Fla Dem]

29. Your very welcome CaliforniaPeggy.

I fell honored to receive my very first "my dear Fl Dem" after 10 years. Although to be honest, I don't top post alot.

[grantcart]

385. If you note the intensity of the abusive remarks made against Greggs on this thread

you will get a sense of the hostility that some DUers carry out against members of BOG on a daily basis.

Some people tire of it and leave and that accounts for the declining number of people at BOG (and IMO DU overall).

Note the numbers that Greggs got on that column:

2.8k facebook likes
107 retweets
237 reposts

It reflects a significant number of progressive Democrats who share that point of view and are posting on the internet.

http://www.democratsforprogress.com/2013/08/11/ods-obama-derangement-syndrome/#more-12944

I for one would like to see a more effective larger DU that was more tolerant and inclusive of Democratic viewpoints.

You will see on this thread why this is becoming an increasingly intolerant, more exclusive and more marginal voice.

I, for one, think that it is a shame that people like Greggs can't post here without a tidal wave of abuse rise up to try and silence them.

[MADem]

3. I haven't seen her in years here and I always enjoyed her stuff.

I wish there were more like her.....

[pinboy3niner]

23. iirc, she posted here not long ago

It's rare for her to post, but she still has an active account here. I still remember her congratulating me when I hit a post milestone...

[MADem]

28. Well, I hope if her ears are burning, that she knows that a lot of folks miss her stuff! nt

[Rex]

267. She's baaaaaaaack!

Down at the bottom of the thread. In the cyber flesh! I think Prism is in shock.

[quinnox]

4. I have heard she is operating here under another handle

And it made sense when I heard the handle of who it is, in terms of what they post on a regular basis. It is always uber-sycophantic lock stepper Dem party stuff, in other words.

[Cali_Democrat]

11. "I have heard she is operating here under another handle"

Bullshit.

[quinnox]

13. you are free to believe what you will but I tend to think its true

As I said, the handle I saw mentioned posts the same exact type of things Nance used to post. It is true they are not as high profile though, in terms of they don't start threads like Nance did all the time, they seem to just respond to threads. Maybe they are keeping a low profile or something.

And don't even ask, I will not say what the handle is.

[Cali_Democrat]

18. So you have no real evidence it's her

Just your hunch. Remember this hunch you had after the Boston Bombings?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2682382

Of course your hunch turned out to be total bullshit and you self-deleted your post.

You lack credibility.

Like I said:

BULLSHIT.

[quinnox]

20. just because I was wrong on one hunch does not mean all my hunches are wrong

I tend to be right quite often in my hunches, or intuition, to be honest. (I am intuitive, in other words)

Why are you so against the idea of Nance being here under a stealth handle anyway? Does it spoil the apparently sacred image of her you hold in your mind, or what?

[Cali_Democrat]

51. Sure....and when your hunches turn out to be bullshit...you self-delete. n/t

[quinnox]

54. wrong, that is not the reason I self-deleted that thread

This isn't important, but if you want to rehash that, here is the truth. The truth is, some clown kept kicking that thread, in a lame attempt to embarrass me, and so I put a stop to it by self-deleting. I really have no problem admitting I was wrong. (as you saw in my reply to you already)

[tavalon]

275. Oh,aren't you precious?

Nance is a real live human being with a life, a life that doesn't include DU much anymore and I suspect you yourself, might know why. She would tell you herself that she is as warty as the rest of us and doesn't have stigmata, but I also suspect she wouldn't waste her time on this.

It's absurd and speaking of which, I'm going to bed. The level of crap has reached to my nose.

Edited to add: Don't buy that lottery ticket, even if your hunches are usually right, because today is just not your day.

[LondonReign2]

22. Why so angry about whether or not she posts here?

[AgingAmerican]

309. Why are you always so flipping angry?

nt

[Cali_Democrat]

311. ...

[AgingAmerican]

312. I guess

...someone has to drive the waaaaambulance!

[Cali_Democrat]

313. ...

[AgingAmerican]

314. Third way

...waaaaaambulance?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. If you don't have any evidence, then you're full of shit, so just stop it!

[quinnox]

39. damn, calm down

Did you see the thread title? It is about NanceGreggs. So I posted my opinion. What, are you now blaming me for making this OP in the first place?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. Is she posting under some other handle or not. You claim that she is.

Do you have evidence? If you don't, then stop pushing something that you have no evidence for.

[quinnox]

46. I have a right to post my opinion

just like you do. I posted a rumor I heard, and my take on the rumor. The subjct of the OP is Nance. I really don't see anything in the OP saying we all have to say glowing things about this former duer.

Ya know, some of us were not fans of Nance, look further down the thread and you will see that. I get the impression you only want positive things being said about Nance in this thread. But it doesn't work that way, this is not the BOG.

[Zen Democrat]

118. Did you mean "Borg?" cause I don't know what the "bog" is. n/t

[steve2470]

124. Barack Obama Group nt

[Renew Deal]

121. Claiming that she is posting under another name is not an opinion

So name names. What name is she posting under?

[quinnox]

130. My lips are sealed

?1353026195

[caraher]

198. The name must be "quinnox"

That would explain having secret knowledge of Nance's alter ego

[AgingAmerican]

310. Take a chill pill

Jaysus Christ

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

318. You coming in all late and shit. Mind your business. This issue doesn't

concern you. This poster is making an accusation for which he/she has no evidence. Instead he/she is attacking other posters for requesting said evidence.

You are coming in late for this discussion.

[dionysus]

172. shit like that's funny. some folks at the elm tree place think i'm a sockpuppet for...

Skinner!

[tblue37]

220. Well, has anyone ever seen you and Skinner in the same place at the same time? nt

[MineralMan]

357. Does that site even exist as an active place any longer?

Last time I looked at it, a couple of months ago, it was pretty much dead.

[dionysus]

366. dunno, havent been there since someone sent me the link about ppl wanting to kick my ass...

it was a few years ago.

[MineralMan]

382. Well, last time I looked at it, earlier this year

it was a shadow of its former self, with just a handful of people participating. Unless they have some sort of secret page, they don't appear to be bothering with attacking DU any longer. It's all but defunct, I think.

[dionysus]

387. if i recall they had quite a crush on you as well, back then

[MineralMan]

388. So it seemed. That rather suddenly ended

for some reason I really can't explain. No love lost.

[dionysus]

389. i also think a lot of them came back here... under new guises.

[Hekate]

397. Given the general level of bile, you could well be correct.

[cui bono]

61. I heard that as well, and not from quinnox. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

74. LOL. What is this? High school?

Spit it out.

You guys are reminding me of a bunch of giggling school girls spreading rumors.

[cui bono]

78. Spit what out? And you are making "high school" accusations???

Whatever.

I'm simply stating what I heard since you seemed so taken aback by what quinnox said. Just confirming it. I feel no need to "tell on someone" to satisfy your need for gossip.

[Cali_Democrat]

83. Just confirming that you heard the same bullshit rumor...which is based on no real evidence

Gawd...

[Renew Deal]

122. You're gossiping by saying that you "heard it" as well

I guess your problem isn't gossiping, but that others are interested in the gossip that you're advancing.

[Bay Boy]

87. Why the sexist comment?

Seems out of line.

[Cali_Democrat]

90. What wrote wasn't sexist. It was accurate. Haven't you ever seen the movie Mean Girls?

[Bay Boy]

192. Oh well then...

...I must apologize. Nothing sexist ever came out of Hollywood.

[JustAnotherGen]

302. +1

It is kind of I heard that so and so said - that SHE said, that he said . . .

[msanthrope]

19. Kindly cite your claim. Otherwise, please delete your personal attack on another

DUer.

[quinnox]

21. I decline

[msanthrope]

24. To prove your claim? That is not unexpected. nt

[joshcryer]

116. why

[Marr]

183. If it's an attack on another DUer, then the post is accurate.

NanceGreggs, thankfully, no longer posts here.

[tblue37]

221. She does occasionally. nt

[msanthrope]

223. She still posts here, under her name. nt

[pinboy3niner]

27. I think her account here is still active, so she has no need of another handle

iirc, she posted here not long ago under her original account/username.

[quinnox]

30. great, that is fine for you to think that

I happen to think otherwise, and that she has a stealth handle. We can both believe what we want, and be happy!

[pinboy3niner]

50. Posting a "suspicion" is not fair to Nance

Accusing another member of using a sockpuppet requires more than a gut feeling.

I could just as easily post that there is another poster whose style is like quinox, so that must be a quinnox sockpuppet. And you would have every right to object.

[quinnox]

56. If I became the subject of an OP, then sure

but the subject of the OP was specifically Nance, and wondering if she still posts here. I then made my post and opinion about that. That said, I can see where you are coming from, but this is one where we will have to agree to disagree.

[pinboy3niner]

68. If you can see where I'm coming from, good for you--that's progress

I hope you'll think about this more. Using a sockpuppet is deceitful and underhanded, so making such an accusation is not a trivial thing. Basing such an accusation, made publicly, on nothing more than a hunch can be considered irresponsible...

[quinnox]

77. thanks, But did you see Wait Wuts post, they raised some legit points that using another handle

can be done for good reasons. So I don't necessarily agree with you it always has to be an underhanded thing to do.

[pinboy3niner]

91. I don't think that justifies using a sockpuppet

It is devious and deceptive. Unless we use our real names, we already are using an anonymous handle. For someone to use a sockpuppet to be disassociated from their other (real name or anonymous) DU identity is underhanded.

If someone has a legitimate need for a new handle, DU admins will accommodate that. Otherwise, it's just deception and a willful disrespect of fellow and sister members.

[quinnox]

94. I tend to agree with you, in that, I personally would never use another handle. But, I also

can see the point Wait Wut was making, and I think there is an argument on that side too. I have never been as high profile as Nance was, or as say, Manny or Will Pitt is, so I can't understand what that kind of popularity and spotlight could be like.

[pinboy3niner]

100. I won't belabor the point further

To me it's clear, to you perhaps not so clear. But it is worth giving more thought to...

[quinnox]

102. I hear ya, and thanks for the civil tone of the conversation.

That is quite refreshing to see here on Du lately.

[pinboy3niner]

104. I also enjoyed our civil conversation

I respect and value you as a fellow member here, even when we disagree.

[tblue37]

222. It is also against the TOS, isn't it? So it is a serious accusation to make against her. nt

[pinboy3niner]

244. I don't know if it's specifically addressed by the TOS

But it's plainly dishonest, which alone makes it a serious accusation.

[Wait Wut]

31. Looks like she still uses her 'old' one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3579794

If she is posting under another name, why do you care? I have my suspicions about a lot of people. Bottom line, I don't care. I'm willing to bet that Skinner does the same thing. Some people are prejudged based on their names. It's nice to be anonymous, on occasion just so you can have a normal conversation. If I were as high profile as NG, I'd probably adopt a new handle, as well.

[quinnox]

32. Well, did you see the thread title? "Is NanceGreggs still a member of DU"

That made me post my opinion about her possibly using another handle, and what I have heard about it, and my hunch it is true. That is why I responded.

As far as her using a stealth handle, yea, I think you make some good points on why they might indeed, do so.

[CreekDog]

242. Recently, I asked Skinner if members were allowed to use two screen names at the same time

He said no.

[sufrommich]

71. Heard it where? The super secret

forum at Old Elm Tree?

[quinnox]

86. I'm not the sort of person to reveal stuff like that

You guys can ask me until your blue in the face, but it won't make any difference.

[treestar]

353. Inconsistent with bringing it up in the first place nt

[Kolesar]

113. A place of banishment for the ogres

I just did a little googling and recognized some names. I won't go on at length.
The first rule of dork club is nobody else talks about dork club.

[Tarheel_Dem]

173. How many layers of hell does one have to penetrate to get to that "super secret forum" at OET?

They're fuckin' nutzzz over there.

[Kolesar]

110. If "uber-sycophantic lock stepper Dem party stuff" is your biggest problem, you are lucky

I am more worried about global warming and my mother's recovery from surgery.

[Douglas Carpenter]

150. are the initials "S.H." by chance? I have heard that suggested and both their writing style and

absolutely purist devotion are very similar. But hell, I don't know..

[TransitJohn]

217. That's a tombstone violation, isn't it?

[tavalon]

273. Ha, ha, ha. You kill me.

She doesn't post here anymore. Probably because of people who act like assholes.

I don't know her in RL but we've spent plenty of time talking elsewhere. I think that little conspiracy theory, albeit amusing, needs to be put to rest.

[Skittles]

5. ODS swings like a pendulum do

it's on both sides

[11 Bravo]

6. She PM'd me several years ago in regard to what she feared DU was becoming.

I think she just got tired of the bullshit.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

36. I don't blame her. I'm getting tired of the ODSers, too! Sometimes I take a break

from it all because they really irk my nerves.

[Cha]

190. Oh yeah.

[Logical]

212. Bullshit meaning expecting a dem to support dem causes? nt

[Skittles]

214. pretty much, yes

[Scurrilous]

7. That was brilliant.

Thanks for posting the link.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. I remember when I first joined DU in 2008

She was so welcoming and nice.

I miss her.

[cry baby]

10. Miss her rants here. nt

[trumad]

16. Google works if you try it

[Agschmid]

33. I love GOOGLE!

[11 Bravo]

43. We all hope you find your scrat.

[libdem4life]

14. Spot on. For some reason, discourse with varying opinions just leaps to black or white...pro or con

hater or ODS...I've never seen the like in almost 50 years of watching and/or participating in politics.

And likely a President H. Clinton will engender more of the same rude insanity. Both are exceptional human beings who have had to crash through a majority glass ceiling.

Next I hope for a Progressive/Liberal gay person...then maybe we'll be done with the political taboos and on to progressing humanity.

One thing is for sure, there will be a D after their name.

[Cha]

15. That was posted in Great Reads when she wrote it.. August 11, 2013!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101670779

I've seen it other places on the net today.. it's time for a replay.. it's a perfect description of ODS from Nance.

Thanks Fla Dem

[Gormy Cuss]

146. Many of the NanceRants are reposted in Good Reads n/t

[Cha]

189. That's right!

[lamp_shade]

17. I miss her too. I suspect she stops by now and then to lurk, not unlike

so many of the old DUers who stopped participating here a couple of years ago.

[Maedhros]

25. Anyone who pushes Obama Derangement Syndrome should be given as much credence

as someone who pushed Bush Derangement Syndrome.

In both cases, it's just a rhetorical technique to delegitimize dissent.

[G_j]

47. I think Rush Limbaugh started the meme

with the references to Bush "haters", & the "hate America first crowd".

[aolwien]

95. Obama Derangement Syndrome started out as Rush Limbaugh meme?

That's just perfect, maybe the people that use ODS will stop using it, seeing as how it's really not that clever.

[G_j]

112. he used different language

but implied that those who criticized Bush, simply did so out of hatred.

[QC]

123. It's a recycled Charles Krauthammer insult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_George_W._Bush#Bush_Derangement_Syndrome_neologism

[Renew Deal]

141. Nice to see you QC

I thought it went back to the Clinton years

[QC]

156. Great to see you as well! n/t

[Scurrilous]

138. Fancy that!

[Bobbie Jo]

321. lol

[seveneyes]

26. It's hard to make any kind of sense out of the screed

It's almost senseless to think there is no ground between a perceived ODS victim and the beyond sensible he can do no wrong victim. I'd like to believe there is a wide berth of common sense somewhere between such extremes.

[11 Bravo]

45. Well, Nance never was big on dumbing down her rants.

[awoke_in_2003]

72. true. nt

[pinboy3niner]

127. Absolutely right, brother

One may agree or disagree, but Nance is nothing but intelligent.

[Cha]

191. Or suffering

fools.

[Union Scribe]

235. I guess they were just unintentionally that way, then. nt

[Skidmore]

58. I respect Nance and trust her honesty and

sincerity. She has been here for years. You, not so much.

[Fla Dem]

103. Sorry you're easily confused. made perfect sense to me. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. She has described Obama Derangement Syndrome to a "T". Those who suffer from

this pathology pretend that it simply amounts to some kind of ad hominem attack. They pretend that they don't know what you're talking about. But NancyGreggs's characterization of ODSers is spot on! I couldn't do a better job myself!

[dgibby]

97. Not really.

see cui bono's post #75 in this thread for the actual definition.

[Cha]

193. Yeah, they act absolutely clueless that it goes on.. and

that's the problem. they're clueless.

[leftstreet]

37. What crap! If you disagree with Obama, you're mentally ill?

How lame

Shit like that makes DU look stupid

[avaistheone1]

44. For the record Stephanie Miller is a total BOG type.

I know lots of people who stopped listening to her years ago, myself included.

She is a good comedian, but politically I don't think she knows her facts imo.

[leftstreet]

48. Figures

I'm not that familiar with her

[JoePhilly]

49. Well, there's always Glenn Beck

[avaistheone1]

53. Yeah he is a comedian too.

[Kolesar]

106. He was making fun of you

: whooosh :

[liberal_at_heart]

52. Yeah her show is more comedy than it is politics, but then again so is Jon Stewart and Stephen

Colbert. Of course, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert aren't afraid to criticize Obama when it is warranted. I just never really cared for her style. Reminds me of early Jenny McCarthy comedy and I'm just not into that kind of comedy.

[avaistheone1]

57. Miller's style

is too much auditory slapstick and cringe commentary for me. Sometimes the spoofs and mockumentaries are good.

But she definitely follows the White House script.

[liberal_at_heart]

73. I'm not that into listening to someone who is just following the WH script either.

I'll stick to watching Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert.

[sufrommich]

64. Stepanie Miller is a liberal democrat and like most

liberal democrats,there is a certain contingent of DUers who won't find her pure enough.Most likely a DINO,the same way extremist freepers think Bill O'Reilly is a RINO.

[cui bono]

69. No she is not. Anyone who can't find anything to criticize about Obama is in no way a liberal.

Period.

[sufrommich]

76. Yeah,she's a liberal. She may not be pure

enough for a small group of DUers,but 99.9 percent of liberals would surely identify her as a liberal.

[cui bono]

82. No, she's not.

She supports Obama in everything he does, never once criticizes him.

Obama has increased drone strikes.
Put WS in the White House.
Appointed Monsanto person to EPA.
Offered up cuts to SS.
Put wiretapping of US citizens on steroids.

No one who supports these actions is a liberal. They can call themselves one, but they can't be one.

[JDPriestly]

134. I'm with you. But I recognize that Obama is functioning in an extremely hostile, difficult

environment. And he needed the money to run for office.

What Obama does when he leaves the White House will tell us who he really is and has been.

Clinton is a good example of that.

Clinton is a liberal but also a bit of a libertine. He sincerely wants to help people (and he is good at that) but he also likes the rich life, the highlife. He courts the rich. And some of their callousness, some of their horrible values inevitably rub off on him.

Yet Clinton, like Obama, has a magical personality that draws people to him. He can use it for good (and he has and does) but he can also use it for bad (and he has and does -- swiping the safety net from millions of long-term unemployed who cannot find jobs through no fault of their own, ending Glass-Steagall and signing NAFTA with no apparent thought for protecting American jobs or wages.

Obama has done some good things -- the health insurance reforms and not making the economic crisis too much worse. In foreign policy he is brilliant. With regard to the economy, he is passing but not great.

We shall see who Obama is when he is out of the White House.

I must say, the Republicans in Congress were absolutely irresponsible and unpatriotic under Clinton. Hard to say whether they are even worse today. But let's say, Republicans are poor losers, and that is one of the reasons that recent Democratic presidents have had such a rough time.

[Jamastiene]

142. This is one of the most unbiased, level headed posts I have seen on DU

in a long time. I wish more DUers fell into the category of in between the extremes. There are some that do hate Obama no matter what and some who can find no fault at all, no matter what he does. It is those of us in between the extremes who seem to be able to see there is good and bad there.

The ones on the extreme ends of the spectrum are making DU suck with their quibbling with each other and unrealistic expectations on both ends. I swear I think they sit around thinking up new insults to call anyone who disagrees with them some of the most sickening names.

The man has done some things I agree with and some things I disagree with. I don't see the point in hating him for the things I disagree with or pretending I agree with things I do not agree with. He is neither all good or all bad in my mind. He is just a little more centrist to right centrist than I would prefer. I see no reason to hate him or pretend he is perfect. He just is who he is and he is working with what he has to work with, which is a Congress full of nasty Republicans who try their damnedest to make life miserable for everyone else.

Both of those unreasonable extremes in opinion seem to take up most of the posts on DU any more. I fall somewhere in between and get sick of the "less filling"/"tastes great"/"I know you are but what am I" crowds who are always bickering with each other like they do.

[Grateful for Hope]

162. Very well said!

I wish I could recommend this post.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

203. I like this. Well thought out. Well stated.

[steve2470]

175. agreed, well said

My opinion is very similar to yours. I think PBO is a wonderful man, from everything I've read. I think the thing about him that infuriates people is, he's very pragmatic and a deal-maker. He's not a bomb-thrower, as much as I'd enjoy that at times. He doesn't have the political zeitgeist of an FDR or a LBJ, so he has to work accordingly. Our zeitgeist is bordering on 1854 America (bloody Kansas) or 1928 Weimar Germany. I don't envy his task whatsoever, with the crazy GOP Teahadists wanting to shut the government down and defund his signature accomplishment.

Have I disagreed with him ? Sure. However, I want to read all the facts before I make up my mind, a task easier said than done. I simply realize that trying to FDR or LBJ his way in this climate would probably not work, as good as it would feel. Once the zeitgeist shifts further leftward, we can expect more. Should he be actively and publicly working for a more leftist climate ? I think he is, in his own way. PBO is not a revolutionary, despite whatever he said and did pre-inauguration. Howard Dean was probably the closest electable politician to an FDR, and we can all see what the media did to him. The media distortions/lies/omissions is the other factor he must work within, and I think overall he does it well. These days, FDR would be painted as a crackpot bomb-throwing Communist further left than Dennis Kucinich, and would be exiled from the media as much as possible. I wish I was wrong about my characterization of the media and FDR, but I really don't think so.

TL,dr: great post

[MrMickeysMom]

181. I'm thinking about that one sentence... it might be true, but geez...

We have to wait until a president is through with his office to see what he was really all about? That should verify what I have believed the office of POTUS has become - less effective against total fascism.

[truebluegreen]

209. I don't care who Obama really is and has been,

I care what he does when in office. And that includes his focus, his framing, and his friends. Those are my concerns, no matter what kind of man he is personally.

[cui bono]

225. I agree with all of that except for calling Clinton a liberal.

Neither Obama nor Clinton are liberal.

That, of course, does not mean they don't care about people or aren't likeable people, but they are not liberals. So by extension, since Stephanie Miller agrees with everything Obama does, she is not a liberal either. As I said in the other post, anyone who supports all those things I listed is not liberal.

I like some things Obama has done as well, and abhor some of them too. Same with Clinton. But that doesn't define where they stand politically, their policies and actions do. Even if they can't achieve something, whether or not they actually fight for it says something.

[JDPriestly]

248. Stephanie Miller's dad was Goldwater's running mate. Enough said, I believe.

[jeff47]

305. And she's the black sheep of the family

For being liberal. And a lesbian.

[treestar]

359. No one should be judged on their parents. nt

[JDPriestly]

367. That was Stephanie Miller's environment growing up. She did not grow up in a family that was

extremely concerned with social justice. She is a Democrat, and I used to look forward to her show, but her values are not always those of someone born and raised an FDR Democrat.

[treestar]

371. You've already proved she thinks different from her parents

We can all do that.

[Surya Gayatri]

351. Excellent post. You should re-post it as an OP.

Your analysis deserves a wider hearing.

[treestar]

355. I think you've just described ODS

Or given a clear symptom of it. Wouldn't that also be true of just about anyone, including Elizabeth Warren?

[cui bono]

386. How so?

If you are not critical of anything Obama does, then you are center-right since that is how he governs. If you are center-right you are not a liberal.

I don't see what Warren has to do with this.

And when you accuse me of IDS don't expect to be taken seriously, especially when you don't bother to take the time to back up your assertions.

[avaistheone1]

80. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Like those Du'ers who think renditions are illegal, and using drones is illegal. They don't approve the cuts proposed by Obama's cat commission either. Yes, they are just too pure.

[Divernan]

93. + 1000

[L0oniX]

120. "Stepanie Miller is a liberal democrat" Bullshit labeling.

[JDPriestly]

154. It isn't a matter of purity. It is a matter of intelligence, experience and understanding

the issues. Focusing on personalities is not what we should be doing as Democrats.

We should let the personality chips fall where they may and look at the substance, at the policies.

I do not like the NSA snooping. It violates the Constitution in a number of ways. If you wish, I can explain in detail.

I like the President's healthcare bill although I would have preferred single payer. Considering the fuss Republicans are making over the implementation of this essentially Republican bill, I'd hate to think what they would do if we were implementing single payer.

Obama went far too easy on Wall Street and allowed far too many homeowners to be foreclosed. Saving the crooked bankers was not worth it. The suffering in American families will still be with us 30 years down the line.

So, I look policy by policy and I ask myself what a politician did, what he or she stood for, and after I think about it, I come down on who I will and will not vote for.

I worked extremely hard to get Barack Obama re-elected and elected the first time. For people to insult me personally because I criticize some of his policies is very superficial. But then, I remember how my parents consoled me when other kids in school called me "brainy" because I read so much: I consider the source(s).

Those who criticize people because they mindlessly dislike Barack Obama, I can respect.

But those who criticize people in a knee-jerk fashion, for criticizing Barack Obama's policies or his conduct of his office should be respected. You can disagree, but why diss them as individuals. Look for thoughtfulness in critiques. A thoughtful critique is a positive thing.

Being able to take criticism is a sign of maturity.

People simply reveal their own shallowness and lack of intelligence when they criticize others who are making the effort to analyze the policy and don't focus on personalities.

Those who need a fan club should go to the Kim Kardashian website.

I like DU because as a policy wonk, I feel I can let go here. I like talking policy. So does Barack Obama. Don't rein him in. Don't try to rein me in. Thanks.

[Egalitarian Thug]

166. Stephanie Miller is a ruling class scion that chose a career in entertainment. She will say or do

whatever is necessary to keep the checks rolling in. She was a radio DJ, later she switched to talk jock and I used to call her show fairly regularly when she was doing an overnight shift in LA.

I wish people would just grow up and figure out that every single person you hear and see in radio, television, and films is a lottery winner. They worked hard, betrayed their friends, lived in poverty for years, and stood up to countless rejections for years to get to where they are now, and (this is the important part), will do literally anything to stay in the game. All of the "left wing" radio hosts do personal endorsements for the lowest, scummiest pieces of shit on earth because those scummy pieces of shit
buy spots on their shows. Do you really believe that Ed Schultz is buying gold @ $1600 p/oz to "diversify his portfolio? Does Thom Hartmann actually believe that "Now is the best time in history to refinance your home"?

C'mon, she's an entertainer and after decades of struggle and scraping by in anonymity, she's finally hit. If you think she would jeopardize that for anything, you just don't know the entertainment industry.

[mojowork_n]

230. I liked her a lot when she was a game show host.

"I've Got a Secret" wasn't a bad show. She had a winning, cheerful style. Her pacing was brisk and her give-and-take with the guests was entertaining, respectful and affectionate.

She's a natural entertainer, continuously re-inventing herself and having a lot of fun doing it. I'm pulling for her and am glad she's gotten better, and seems to be enjoying her success.

But lately....

Yuck.

....it's all become so flat and forced. Like a sales pitch. Ever since she started telling her listeners what they ought to be thinking (and feeling) about Syria, or Snowden and Manning, or other (clearly) difficult, layered, troublesome and challenging topics -- she hits all the wrong notes. It still sounds like her voice but the message is as crudely scripted and unfunny as something you'd expect to hear from Ari Fleischer, or Mark Levin. In a cute baseball cap and heels. There's a bullying, hectoring, arrogant edge to it that's just mean and petty.

I hate to say it, but she's really started to remind me of those radio personalities on the other side, who are in the business of passing out ammunition, but very little actual information. (To help people make up their own minds.) I don't get that from Ed or Thom or I'd have stopped listening to all talk radio, a long time ago.

[madamesilverspurs]

184. Actually,

she grew up in a very political environment. Her dad, William Miller, was Barry Goldwater's running mate. She does know her stuff.

[avaistheone1]

291. Not really.

Does one then become politically knowledgeable through osmosis? Should Jenna Bush be our next president?

[OnionPatch]

277. She almost lost me a few weeks ago.

Seemed like she was coming very close to trying to justify the bombing of Syria. She does strike me as a bit of a BOG type, but she cracks me up and gets me started with a laugh in the mornings. Then I turn on Amy Goodman and hear the real news.

[liberal_at_heart]

286. Yes. Amy Goodman is definitely real news. She is good.

[jsr]

287. She uses only approved facts

She has an agenda to catapult.

[polichick]

327. Agreed.

[SunSeeker]

63. No, that is not what the OP says and you know it.

Blaming Obama for everything and calling him a neocon is not mere "disagreement" with Obama.

[leftstreet]

98. 'deranged' isn't mentally ill?

Most of Obama's policies ARE neocon policies

It's not personal

[SunSeeker]

117. Claiming "most of Obama's policies ARE neocon policies" is insane IMO.

A neocon would not sit down for talks with Syria, Russia or Iran. If we had a neocon in the White House, we would already be at war with Iran, we would still be in Iraq and we would not be drawing down in Afghanistan.

A neocon would not have saved Detroit, a neocon would not have ended DADT, nor given health coverage to 30 million Americans, nor pushed for an increase in the minimum wage. Obama is a left of center Democrat. He is certainly to the left of Bill Clinton. He has done more to help the poor than any Dem since Johnson.

What else but personal hate can explain willfully ignoring Obama's progressive accomplishments and calling him a conservative?

[leftstreet]

132. Oh what a crock of shit!

We the People, in the UK and US, forced FORCED the Obama administration into 'talks' with Syria

Saved Detroit my ass. Starting autoworker wages post union busting? $14 an hour

No one is GIVING HEALTHCARE to millions of Americans. The ACA gives for-profit INSURANCE COMPANIES mandated payments

Ended DADT - that's it on your list there. And that's great!

Of course, the Obama administration ended DADT at the same it extended Bush Tax Cuts, but let's not suggest anything suspicious...


1 in 6 Americans experiences food insecurity
3+ million homeless in America
20+ million Americans need fulltime jobs

It's not 'personal' against Obama to claim that his policies have failed

[SunSeeker]

148. Nice list of lies you got there...

No, it was Obama who forced Syria and Russia to talk--and in fact agree to give up Assad's CW--after Obama threatened a strike on Assad's CW facilities.

There would be no American Auto Industry but for Obama. And he saved it without busting the auto unions. That is why all the auto unions endorsed him in 2012. Your hourly figure is wrong as any Google search will show. In 2012, the starting salary at GM for someone with no experience was $16.78. Only 9% of workers at GM are entry level. Most make much more than that. The median U.S. autoworker salary in 2011was $50,502 (around $26/hour), plus benefits, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor statistics.

Poor Americans ARE getting subsidized healthcare that they never got before. The ACA expands medicaid to do this. The rest will enjoy lower premiums and protections from pre-existing condition exclusions, etc.

Obama ended DADT by working out a deal with the Republicans that temporarily extended the Bush tax cuts. In December of 2012, he ended the fiscal cliff standoff with the Republicans that was threatening to tank the economy by compromising: he permanently ended the Bush tax cuts for those making more than $400,000 (one of the reasons the deficit was cut in half).

Yes, a lot of people are still hurting, but to blame it on Obama while Republicans block his jobs and infrastructure bills is classic ODS.

Obama has not "failed, " but that Rush Limbaugh talking point has. Pathetic that a DUer would repeat it.

[Fla Dem]

180. Great factual response. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

299. Nicely done, my friend. Well done!!

[treestar]

356. +1

Saying that is as ODS as being a birther.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

297. A neocon would not have gone to Congress or the UN. A neocon would have

struck Syria unilaterally. A preemptive strike. Obama did not do that.

A neocon would not be seeking diplomatic negotiations with Iran, my dear.

You're sounding "deranged" to me.

Deranged: Someone not using reason or logic; rather, resorting to personal or ad hominem attacks on character. Driven by passion or emotion--not using logic or reason. Not allowing facts and information to guide thought and decisions. Even when confronted with the correct information (or revised information), rejecting or refusing to accept that information, instead relying on emotion or passion to guide thought/decision.

That is ODS, my friend. ODS to a "T".

[leftstreet]

300. We forced the Obama Administration's hand

Nice try

The Obama Administration was fully prepared to strike Syria, and you know it

Overwhelming public opinion and the UK vote stopped it

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

304. A neocon would not be pursuing diplomatic talks with Iran.

A neocon would not be pursuing a withdrawal in Iraq or Afghanistan, or a resolution in Yemen or any other place.

Obama is not a neocon.

ODS, my friend. It's sounding a little ODSey, there.

----

This doesn't sound all neocon to me, either...

Exclusive: Secretary of State Kerry to sign Arms Trade Treaty - diplomats

By Paul Eckert, Louis Charbonneau and Arshad Mohammed

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, in a move that puts the Obama administration at odds with the powerful American gun lobby, will sign the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty regulating the $70 billion international conventional arms business, diplomats said on Tuesday.

A senior State Department official said President Barack Obama's administration would notify the U.S. Senate on Tuesday and Kerry would sign the treaty on Wednesday on the sidelines of the annual U.N. General Assembly in New York.

<...>

The arms treaty, which requires ratification by the Senate and has been attacked by America's pro-gun National Rifle Association, would help Western countries press to curtail Russian arms sales to Syria, where President Bashar al-Assad's government has been accused of widespread abuses in more than two years of civil war.

Amnesty International Secretary General Salil Shetty called Kerry's decision "a milestone towards ending the flow of conventional arms that fuel atrocities and abuse."

- more -

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/24/us-un-assembly-kerry-treaty-idUSBRE98N0RG20130924

[leftstreet]

319. Without public opinion, neither would Obama

I don't know if that makes him a 'neocon'

Don't care

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

329. The fact that you don't care puts you squarely in the camp of the ODSers!

Because the ODSers don't care about facts. For them, it's all about their derangement, their hate and disdain for this particular president regardless of what he says or does. It's a sickness. An illness. It's a pathology.

Oh, and Bush was a neocon but he didn't care about public opinion. No matter what the polls said about how much people hated the war, he and his neocon cabal didn't change their behavior. You see, neocons don't care about public opinion polls.

So, your theory about Obama and his adherence to liberal keyboard-finger pushers on discussion forums or public opinion polls doesn't fly. Obama is not a neocon because neocons--like ODSers--are not reasonable people. They are driven by ideology, emotion, passion. They are not driven by facts, logic or reason.



-----

The time was now ripe for the entire international community to get behind the pursuit of peace, Obama said. "Now, the rest of us must also be willing to take risks."

"Real breakthroughs on these two issues – Iran's nuclear program and Israeli-Palestinian peace – would have a profound and positive impact on the entire Middle East and north Africa," Obama said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/24/obama-iran-un-general-assembly-speech

See there...

Spoken like a true neocon!!

[jeff47]

307. Because he'd lose his next election?

Oh wait.....

W demonstrates that Neocons will happily act without public support. If Obama was one, we'd have boots on the ground in both Syria and Iran by now.

[leftstreet]

320. wtf are you talking about? n/t

[jeff47]

328. That there is no real mechanism to apply public pressure to Obama

He doesn't need to win another election. He doesn't need us to like him. All he needs is for us to not be pissed off enough to impeach him. And opposition to bombing Syria had majority support, but it did not have sufficient support for impeachment.

Republican intransigence means Obama doesn't need help from "the public" to get anything done - he can't get anything done until Captain Orange loses his gavel to Pelosi. And gerrymandering means that is not likely in 2014.

So we actually have very little leverage to use. If Obama was the neocon you claim, he'd just ignore us. Just like W ignored us.

Instead, he played "bad cop" to Putin's "good cop", and now Syria has agreed to get rid of its chemical weapons.

[Fla Dem]

375. SMH, so rational, but they don't get it. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

373. You again? Don't you ever get tired of hearing your own drivel?

[treestar]

358. Exactly. Disagreeing is one thing.

Thinking he should have handled health care another way is one thing. Thinking he should back off on marijuana is one thing. Thinking he should not appoint Larry Summers is one thing.

But calling him a "neocon?" That's ODS, pure and simple. They are dodging the question by labeling that mere "disagreement."

[treestar]

354. I don't think the term "deranged" in such a context

literally means "mentally ill." Victimhood fail.

The birthers have ODS. They may not be "mentally ill." There are just deranged in the sense that they are making no sense and are grabbing onto ridiculous issues.

[G_j]

38. figures nt

[Skidmore]

41. Nance was always one of my favorite DUers and

her voice is missed here.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

107. That ought to be a wake-up call to other posters

Can't people learn from the negative effects of the voice of extremism? Painting people with political brushes doesn't help any. We're individuals - like it or not - and we should be respectful of each other. I wish she was still here and feel upset that she left owing to discourse here on DU.

[Skidmore]

350. There are people here actively pushing people out

by using shrillness and lobbing incendiary labels and accusations. They are among the shrillest and least considerate of posters.

[madrchsod]

42. she gave up on du as some other very good posters have.

it`s a shame but i guess that`s life.

well at least the magistrate is posting again.

[dgibby]

55. Nance was very popular here

when she had Bush to use as her foil; however, when she used her acerbic wit against some of her fellow DUer's, many became disillusioned. She stopped posting after an epic post re: the use/misuse of the term "apologist". Many here miss her, others not so much.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. I never knew Nance well,

and i often disagreed with her re President Obama. I miss JeffR quite a lot, though.

[Adsos Letter]

243. i really miss JeffR in the photo group...

...and WannaJumpMyScooter, and DS1, and some others who were always very supportive of my attempts to learn photography. Lots of good folks have come through that group over the years.

[Blue_In_AK]

257. Not to forget F. Gordon and the late, great ConsAreLiars, who taught me everything I know

about photography. Both tombstoned for reasons unknown to me.

WannaJump and JeffR are FB friends of mine, but I do miss them both here.

[nolabear]

59. Nance is what made DU great in the first place. I miss her a great deal.

[polichick]

322. That's quite a claim. Seemed to me she was looking for...

an audience just like you.

On edit: ...as if it was more of a performance than interaction.

[nolabear]

323. Not a problem for me. A smart writer deserves a good audience.

[polichick]

325. Think I was editing while you were posting.

[nolabear]

331. Oh I think that's right. It did and does have a performance aspect.

Really, most posts here do until a discussion gets going and people like you and I have an actual interchange. I don't mind a bit the people who do something akin to blog posts if they do them well and give me something to think about. I'm sure Nance doesn't know me from Adam, and that's fine. I enjoy her work.

[Cryptoad]

60. Sounds like

the Obama Haters are doing a little purging !

[Blue_In_AK]

84. I don't care to argue with you

but I personally know of many whom you term "haters" who have been purged ... Probably far more of them than BOG types.

[Cryptoad]

96. Dont want to argue with you either.....

Thanks for the info. I hope you are correct.

[dgibby]

105. You need new material.

"Obama haters" is sooo 3rd grade. Surely you can do better. BTW, every time you use that term, you negate any credibility you might otherwise have as someone who is interested in intelligent debate. Way to discount yourself.

[Cryptoad]

111. HOws about

Haters of Obama?
Obama Loathers?
The Evil ones?
Obama Misanthropes?

a rose by any other name,,,,,,,,

[dgibby]

114. Please continue, Cryptoad. n/t

[Cryptoad]

128. Oh,,,,, I am!!!!! nt

[whatchamacallit]

62. I'm glad she tucked tail and ran

taking her Obama Deification Syndrome with her.

[cui bono]

75. It's actually Obama Derangement Syndrome

The BOGers just don't know the real definition.

First known definition:

obama derangement syndrome

Insane state of mind and lack of critical thinking or reasoning on issues surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's bid for the 2008 White House; usually used in reference towards his supporters.
After listening to Sen. Barack Obama's speech, I couldn't help but think that everyone had lost their minds and had come down with Obama Derangement Syndrome.

by flyfish Feb 27, 2008

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=obama+derangement+syndrome

[whatchamacallit]

79. Ah...

figures.

[dgibby]

85. Bingo! n/t

[leftstreet]

135. LOL

I didn't know that

[sheshe2]

140. Well cui~

Flyfish???

Ok, I see why you did not chose another quote....



Obama Derangement Syndrome
Share on twitter Share on facebook Share on more
836 up, 340 down

The acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the statements -- nay -- the very existence of Barack Obama.
Obama's positions better reflect the change and new direction that the American people have been calling for, but those with Obama Derangement Syndrome would rather stick with failure than even consider voting for him.
mark as favorite buy obama derangement syndrome mugs & shirts
obama derangement syndrome leader future change success
by ptulsa May 16, 2008 add a video

Obama Derangement Syndrome
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110 up, 16 down

The state of paranoia in which people fear President Obama so much, they stop thinking logically and stop using common sense. Usually a direct result of watching too much Fox News.
Announcer: This is Skeeter.

Skeeter: Kenyan, Muslim, Communist, Socialist.

Announcer: Skeeter is suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Skeeter: He bowed to other world leaders. He had a hip-hop barbecue.
mark as favorite buy obama derangement syndrome mugs & shirts
ass asshat asshole douche douchebag.
by potterfreak98 Oct 24, 2012 add a video

Obama Derangement Syndrome
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64 up, 7 down

When a person stops disagreeing with Obama on political policy and believe every single policy decision that he make is apart sinister conspiracy to weaken or destroy America and possibly the world.
"Obama will confiscate guns, bring the Muslim brotherhood to power in America, Take all his orders from Putin, declare war on Israel, become a permanent dictator, maybe even become the anti Christ and set up a one world government...But I just disagree with the guy. How an I suffering from Obama Derangement Syndrome?"
mark as favorite buy obama derangement syndrome mugs & shirts
obama derangement syndrome conspracy theories
by Lexington50 Dec 2, 2012 add a video

From a BOG'er~

[NealK]

152. As mentioned in another post the repukes started that stupid meme:

Bush Derangement Syndrome neologism

"American conservative pundit and former psychiatrist[122] Charles Krauthammer, noting the reaction of liberals to George W. Bush and his policies, in a 2003 column coined the term Bush Derangement Syndrome to describe "the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency—nay—the very existence of George W. Bush".[122][123] While Krauthammer's column was somewhat tongue-in-cheek (e.g., "What is worrying epidemiologists about the Dean incident, however, is that heretofore no case had been reported in Vermont, or any other dairy state&quot , the term indicates a belief that some extreme criticisms of President Bush are of emotional origin rather than based in fact or logic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_George_W._Bush#Bush_Derangement_Syndrome_neologism

Democrats using that silly RW tactic is intriguing.

[cui bono]

227. Oh, I guess I missed that when Bush was around.

Thanks for correcting me. That is interesting. So basically it's the Dem version of a RW meme. It wasn't valid or accurate then and it's not valid or accurate now.

I was going off of Urban Dictionary, one of the world's oldest and most revered authorities.

[Cha]

196. Yeah, and who cares who started the damn thing with bush?

there was reason to hate bush as he was destroying our country.

With Presiddent Obama it's just as Nance described. Ya see the difference? But to deflect they try to guilt trip with.. "limbaugh started that with bush so it can't possibley apply to us "

Another dreaded BOG'er here she~

[cui bono]

229. No you don't see. The definition I posted predates the ones you chose due to liking them better.

However, you could have proven me wrong by going to Wikipedia as a poster below did.

Apparently it originated as a RW meme towards those who disagreed with Bush by someone who couldn't stand hearing him criticized, and now those who can't stand to hear any criticism of Obama. It wasn't valid or accurate then and it's not valid or accurate now.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

205. I agree with this, but I also agree that ODS exists on the political left as well. It's not just...

about deriding Obama as "a Marxist, Kenyan, non-American..."

It's also deriding ANYTHING he does, not willing to give him credit for ANYTHING. Unwilling to use common sense, reason, knee-jerk reactions to unfounded claims; reacting based on pure speculation or innuendo, second or third-hand accounts; not waiting for confirmed information or set policy. I could go on and on. Acting based on emotion rather than on reasoned or well thought-out plans. Because he's not purely liberal on policy X, Y, or Z, then that means he's awful and bad and "just like Bush". I still think we ought to add NancyGreggs's characterization as well as this one.

[liberal_at_heart]

288. I'm a socialist, so I probably will never agree with the things Obama does.

I want single payer health care, education for all, a living wage, and first and foremost campaign finance reform. Some may say that is too idealistic, that we have to take baby steps to get there. I disagree. We live in an age where the gap between rich and poor has almost never been bigger. Corporations have complete and total control of our country and taking baby steps will not work in this environment. The corporations won't allow it. So, if you want to claim I have ODS, go ahead. If you think I care what someone on the internet thinks of me, you are sadly mistaken.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

294. I don't think you have ODS. I think you're just passionate. Nothing wrong with that.

...and you're blaming the wrong people. Put the right people in Congress and you'll have what you want. Those things begin in Congress. I'll never forget spending all day on the phone calling up Democratic senators who I thought were on our side who rejected the public option and were never going to sign on to that. I will never forget that. You have to have the votes if you want the change. Obama was practical; he knew he didn't have the votes and he knew he never was going to have the votes no matter what he did.

We need more progressives in Congress. That's were the true change begins.

No give up hope. We just have to work harder to get more liberals in Congress and especially in the state legislatures and governors. That's where it begins.

[Bobbie Jo]

195. ...and here they come.

The mob has arrived, right on schedule.

The nasty brigade never fails to bring a cooler full of bile to the party.

[whatchamacallit]

208. Have a cold can of bile on me

[Puglover]

210. It must be just awful for you.

Cause you and your pals are all so nice.

[Bobbie Jo]

211. There you are..

Was wondering when you would join the festivities.

Grab a cold one and hunker in.

[Puglover]

213. Lol

Seriously, i sense a fun person behind all of our differences!

[Bobbie Jo]

215. .

Cheers, my fellow DU'er.

[Puglover]

219. Back atcha

[cui bono]

231. Um... did you notice the OP was nothing more than name calling

disguised as curiosity about a fellow DUer?

You might try to be just a wee bit objective.

[Bobbie Jo]

233. Please.

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

You win today's Unintentional Irony Award for the creative use of "objective."

Extra points for the conspiracy element.

Party on, Garth.

[cui bono]

234. Hm, I never brought up any conspiracy.

And I think I'm pretty objective. I'm not blindly holding any position. I base my opinions on what I see occurring. If you have something to point out to me where I haven't done that feel free to let me know. I'll have a look at it. Thanks.

[JustAnotherGen]

303. +1

[cui bono]

65. I don't remember seeing much of her after that "apologist" thread went up in flames.

And too bad about Stephanie Miller. That's exactly why I can't listen to her anymore. It must make Jim crazy to have to hear all of her apologist talk first thing every morning.

[dgibby]

92. That "apologist" thread

was her swan song. Heat, kitchen, etc.

[NCTraveler]

67. While NaceGreggs posts sometimes rubbed me the wrong way...

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2013, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

They were always well written and you could tell there was thought and time put into them. Many of us could do that with respect to our posts and ops, myself included. I always made the point to read her ops.

[aolwien]

99. It's not too hard to rub out a "Bush is a poopy-head" screed.

[NCTraveler]

290. Please show me a post or op of yours...

that best shows your great contribution to DU.

[MineralMan]

361. Unfortunately, that screen name will not be able to

help you with that. The person associated with it has been escorted from the premises...again.

[Hekate]

398. Can't happen often enough for me

Posters like that make it hard for newbies in general to receive any sort of warm welcome here.

[MineralMan]

399. It has always been tough for new DUers.

There are some here who will not give them much of a chance. Too bad, really.

[sheshe2]

70. Thanks for posting this Fla Dem.

Excellent rant.

I saw back in August however it's worth the reread.

[Andy823]

81. Nance pretty much said it all

She did a great job of describing the ODS bunch, and I am really glad that so many of them have stopped by and posted on this, because it sure proves her point!

[Maedhros]

125. Objecting to broad-brush characterization of the motivations of posters critical of the President

somehow proves those broad-brush characterizations?

There may be a few individuals that are over-zealous in their criticism of Obama, but the OP draws a caricature of those people and applies it to everyone opposed to certain policies of this Administration.

I don't deny the existence of those over-zealous individuals at all. I do deny that it is appropriate to claim that principled opponents of the President's policies can be described by such a screed, and to claim that by denying the validity of the screed we therefore PROVE it is simply McCarthyite thinking.

[Andy823]

182. It's not just over zealous posters

I don't agree with everything the president has done, or hasn't done, and everyone has the right to complain. However there are some here who are not just over zealous, but have gone off the deep end making comments about the president being a total failure, just like Bush etc. and who never give him credit for anything he does. The attack those who do support the president, call them paid shills, trolls, etc. even though many of them have been here since day one. That's not over zealous that's just plain going off the deep end.

Those are the ones I believe are being addressed, those who seem to have their own agenda.

[Maedhros]

247. Yes. And there is a cadre of pro-Obama posters that really do nothing but insult people

who have principled objections to his policies. Both of these groups of people are insufferable.

[Cha]

197. Yeah, Nance has a way with words, Andy. She observes and then

puts her on inimitable stamp on it. kinda like Jon Stewert or Stephen Colbert with a twist of humor.

[Vinnie From Indy]

88. I loved reading her rants! I miss her here.

I think she sometimes confused being smart with always being correct.

[fadedrose]

89. I miss her.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

101. I and others left the Al Franken Forum for similar reasons

There is no place on the Internet that I've come across where you don't run into very strong opposition with personal attacks. It's easy for some - with a knack for the put down - to chase others away. I avoid certain topics and choose to ignore some replies. It's the only way to stay connected as far as I can see.

[CreekDog]

108. Summer turns to Fail.

[RetroLounge]

143. ...

RL

[Starry Messenger]

177. It hath a way of doing that!

[Gemini Cat]

239. Hmm...

So I've heard.

[Peacetrain]

109. An excellent read!!

[Jamaal510]

115. I'm actually a little jealous that none of my nearly 4K posts

have been read on the air yet.

All joking aside, the link in the OP is the first (and only) post I have seen from Nance on here. Some earlier posts on this thread have indicated that she doesn't say much on here anymore, and I really think that this is what DU is becoming. As the hyperbolic threads continue to garner 200-300 recs, more of the long-time posters may be deterred from frequenting this site. It is sort of a shame because I personally used to look at it as a sanctuary from all the anti-Obama/anti-Democratic Party/"lesser of two evils" drivel and get factual perspectives for stories in the news, but I don't know WTF happened since the election. Good news about prominent Democrats used to be welcomed particularly here in GD, but now one gets insulted and called a "paid shill" when posting news or numbers that may favor the President (on a DEMOCRATIC website).

[sufrommich]

126. This. You know DU is jumping the shark when posting

favorable polls for Obama is considered "trolling".

[Andy823]

133. Not to mention

That a lot of the posters calling those who post favorable things about president Obama "trolls" are probably the "real trolls"!

[Fla Dem]

139. Yes, I too question the credentials of those that only speak dismissively of the Democratic

president. I don't agree with everything he has done, and I'm disappointed at some of the things he hasn't done. But on the whole given the environment he has had to work in, I am sometimes amazed at what he has accomplished.

[Andy823]

163. I am the same way

As I believe most of the posters that support the president are, we don't agree with everything, and want him to do more, but as you said it has not been easy for him to accomplish what he has with republicans doing all they can to try and stop him from getting things done.

I would never condemn anyone for disagreeing with him, but when that's all they do, never say anything positive, and claim he is a total failure as some have, well it should make everyone wonder just what their real agenda is.

[SunSeeker]

149. +1

[Andy823]

129. I couldn't agree more.

It's pretty bad when being a supporter of President Obama makes you and outcast on a discussion board for democrats.

[Number23]

167. You are right, Jamal. About everything.

And "hyperbolic" is a lovely, kind way to describe some of those threads. The one sitting at the top of GD after two hides and a lock (you would have thought that would have given people a clue but all it did was bring out the Disney hyenas in their personalities) is nothing but an orgy of ignorance and hostility.

Whole sub-threads devoted to attacking DUers. The 2nd grade name-calling (conservadems, authoritarians etc. etc. etc.) the braying and howling over the most absurdly stupid UNIMPORTANT things and they wonder why so many have washed their hands of this place. When I see stuff like that, I breathe a sigh of relief that I am rarely on the same side of ANY issue as those people.

[JustAnotherGen]

306. co-sign

Every single word you've written here.

[JDPriestly]

119. Nance Greggs oversimplifies. But her writing is cute.

[RetroLounge]

144. I prefer to think of it as precious.

RL

[JDPriestly]

157. Also a good word.

[Bluenorthwest]

131. There are other posters just as simplistic, surly and divisive.

I'm not a big fan of the 'I stand up and preach about others' school of commentary.

[NanceGreggs]

260. Have you come up with those links yet?

The ones where you insisted I had defended McClurkin and Warren?

"I'm not a big fan of the 'I stand up and preach about others' school of commentary."

Neither am I. That's why I find it so funny when you "preach" about how people who attribute statements to DUers who never made such statements should be PPR'd.

Your words tonight on another thread:

"I never said the things you are ascibing (sic) to me, and that is unacceptable bullshit. What a creepy, ugly tactic that is, attempting to put words into the mouths of others. I tend to assume those who do so do so out of a deep seated contempt for others. Speak for yourself, not for me, thanks."

So where's your defense of putting words into MY mouth, words which we both know I never said? Don't you think that shows a "deep seated contempt for others"?

[Number23]

274. Nance, I say this with all friendship and respect, but why in God's name WOULD YOU BOTHER?

Seriously! Look at who you're dealing with/talking to! Go home. Wash your dog. Read a book. Dance naked in the moonlight. ANYTHING is a better alternative to rehashing old, dead foolishness with people not worth your time.

Toast the success of you many posts with your husband and call it a day. Don't waste a second on this place or these hateful people.

[JustAnotherGen]

308. Times One Billion

[AgingAmerican]

315. ...and don't forget your toys

nt

[NanceGreggs]

337. You know that I never take anything you say

as being offered with anything other than friendship, Number23.

But that particular poster has been on my last nerve for a while now. He has consistently accused myself, and others, of 'homophobia' without any evidence - except for the 'evidence' he fabricates, and then posts as though it were fact.

Of course, as you can see, he blows a gasket when he thinks someone is attributing statements to him that he never made.

This whole "Nance is a homophobe" BS originated with the Shady Tree people and, despite the dozens of pro-GLBT rights OPs I wrote during my DU years, certain people here were happy to keep repeating the accusation and - just as in this case - when asked for evidence of same, they simply refused to provide any.

It was a major factor in my decision to leave DU. I no longer wanted to post on a site where (a) such people were members, and (b) the Admins allowed that kind of unsubstantiated personal attack without any consequence.

So, yeah, I hear what you're saying - but that bullshit still gets my back up.

Anyway, it was good talking with you again, and I hope all is well with you and yours.

[Number23]

339. I completely understand. Believe me... COMPLETELY understand

And I understand the need to clear your name after you've been accused of something that you know damn well you didn't do

And while I am really glad to see you posting again, it's upsetting to me to see you doing it under these circumstances. Consider the source of the attacks, Nance. Seriously. And not just from those specific posters but also this web site which has devolved into something completely unrecognizable and certain folks couldn't be happier about that.

Do you. Be great and wonderful and wise. Be YOU. And leave this place to the hyenas that have taken over every single corner of it except the BOG which has them braying so loudly. With that one post, you probably impacted more people, made more people think/laugh than these folks have with thousands of posts over the course of years. Their bitterness and abject hatefulness should do absolutely nothing but remind you of why you left.

[NanceGreggs]

340. I knew you'd understand, Number23

and I don't intend to post here regularly. I just saw red when I read the posts about my alleged homophobia; and it was very much a reminder of why I left.

And it saddens me no end to see some of the vitriol that gets posted these days, especially the personal attacks that have nothing to do with differing opinions, and everything to do with who is in which 'camp'.

2008 was my first experience posting here during presidential primaries, and I always hearken back to that time as exemplifying what the DU community was all about. The Obama supporters fought with the Edwards supporters, the Biden supporters fought with the Hilary supporters. But it was always about the candidates themselves and what THEY represented, and not about who supported who. There were very few posts about "You're an idiot if you trust Edwards," but lots of posts about "I don't trust Edwards, and here's why ..."

Except for a small handful of DUers who left with hurt feelings, it was widely understood that all of the primary season vitriol was political, not personal. Disagreements between 'camps' was viewed as part of the political process, and not as a wedge to divide Democrats one from the other. In the end, we all rallied behind the candidate-of-choice, and actually rejoiced in the fact that we were once again united in the common cause of seeing that candidate in the WH.

THAT was the DU community in those days, and an incredible community it was. No one accused anyone of being a 'conservadem' or a Third Wayer; no one applied 'purity tests', or suggested that centrists were lesser Democrats than the far-leftists. No one posted graphs and charts to 'illustrate' where one should be on some scale; no one claimed to be THE base of the Party, deriding those who didn't think exactly as they did.

There was a time when we were ALL Democrats here on DemocraticUnderground. If you were FOR electing Dems to office and AGAINST the ideology of the Republicans, you were welcomed, you were "one of us", you were an integral part of the whole - and no one questioned your "purity" credentials, or attempted to position you on some sliding scale that declared some Democrats more 'worthy' than others.

All of that has now changed and there is, IMHO, no sense of real community as a result. The far-leftists fight with the more middle-of-the-road liberals; the extremists fight with the pragmatists; the purity police roam DU looking for those who refuse to lock-step with their own ideology in order to attack and belittle. This is not an environment in which any sense of community can exist, no less flourish.

But I, for one, am extremely grateful for all of the good years I was a part of DU. I made friends here who are friends-for-life. I met people who were warm and welcoming, who felt no need to categorize their fellow posters.

I am a Democrat and, as such, I was accepted here. And my opinions, while often not shared, were respected as coming from the heart, rather than coming from some pre-conceived notion of what a Democrat is supposed to be.

I am truly saddened that those days are gone here on DU. It was a fabulous time to be part of a community that embraced the best in all of us, and truly made us ONE.

[treestar]

362. +1

Poster makes every post about homophobia. You could post a recipe and that poster would find a way to call someone a homophobe.

[tavalon]

378. I haven't left DU but I get fully why she's stepped out and yeah, this thread is just a rehash

A bunch of "Heathers" and this is the middle school play yard. Not DU's finest day.

But I know she has a rich life and I still get to read her stuff - it was hard when she quit writing for a while. Despite DU's virtues and it does have them, it also has this vice of putting someone on a pedestal and then kicking the shit out of them. Look back on many of our more prolific posters who threw up their hands and went elsewhere. We are not the better for it.

I notice a lot of people (very angry people, for some reason) who are attacking Nance and few saying anything of substance about what she's written. Did the stupid people just converge on this thread or has DU become stupid? Just this morning, I'm wondering.

Because, you see, Nance doesn't always follow the group think and as I've said elsewhere, we have certain places in politics where we diverge but because I'm incredibly lucky, I've gotten a glimpse and only a glimpse into who she really is. And that lady is awesome, politics aside. So why would she come down here and play in the muck?

Then again, there are times when people just need to slap back. Nance is human and this thread is inhumane and inhuman. Ugly.

[Number23]

390. "Did the stupid people just converge on this thread or has DU become stupid?"

To quote Abe (Grandpa) Simpson, "a little from column A and a little from Column B."

I hear every thing you're saying and agree completely.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

295. OH MY GOD, you're back! Missed you do much!! The voice of reason...

...may we all bow in deference!

[NanceGreggs]

334. I've never been considered a "voice of reason"

And I have the ex-husbands to prove it!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

335. That's o.k., too! They didn't know the treasure they had, girl! LOL!!

[grantcart]

383. Thanks for dropping by and another great column.

[Hekate]

136. Nance is one of the greatest. She's missed. And the number of bullshit posts in this thread...

... are the reason why she shook the dust of this city off her sandals as she left.

I'm just glad she's still posting, even if elsewhere, and that Stephanie Miller appears to be a regular reader.

Thanks Nance, for a clear-eyed view of the political world.

Hekate

[Grateful for Hope]

137. Glad to hear that she has gotten some recognition.

Lots of truth in that rant.

[RetroLounge]

145. Stopped reading her trite attacks on other democrats

She was okay when she ranted against Bush, which let's face it, anyone could do pretty well given the material at hand.

But when she began attacking those deemed not pure enough for the BOG I tuned her out.

Then I heard she posted some GBCW thread and poof, was mostly gone.

Turns out I've survived without reading her. Go figure.

RL

[SunSeeker]

151. Speaking of trite attacks on other Democrats....

That pretty much describes the majority of GD these days.

[RetroLounge]

326. So?

RL

[Puglover]

179. LOL dontcha know.

She is connecting with a "world wide audience" now. Far beyond this "left wing fringe" website.

Yeah, Stephanie Miller has a world wide audience.

I really do wish that the posters that find DU and the vast majority of it's posters so utterly loathsome would find themselves a website that is a good fit for them rather then posting their nasty screeds here.

I can tell you this the mod forum got fun when Nance posted one of her "rants" Lots of different opinions just like here in GD.

AFAIAC the Bogger type thinks it's all about President Obama. And for sure ODS does exist here. Among a few. But the majority of folks just don't like the BOG mentality. They (BOG folks) like to coop that into "You hate President Obama" Such complete bullshit.

And one more edit.

Had Nance posted her rants in the BOG she would have had the audience she was looking for (which she now has over at DFP) But when you post in GD at DU which is not a protected group of like minded thinkers you take your chances. She didn't like the negative feed back. She's obviously chosen a better fit for her. Good for her. I wish others would follow her lead.

[Zorra]

185. More than a few victims of OWD (Obama Worship Disorder) have fled DU in tears

of indignation, poutrage, and denial when they discovered that not every DUer believes that the President is perfect and beyond all criticism and reproach.

It's confusing, and distressing, for those prone to following cults of personality, when they discover that not everyone worships their heroes. and this is often made manifest by the redundancies prevalent in their perseverative rantings.

IMO, compassion is called for, in conjunction with firm insistence that it is our absolute right to criticize leaders if we believe it is warranted.

The President is OK in my book, not nearly the FDR anti-fascist Prez we want him to be, but, quien sabe, maybe in the next three years he'll turn out to be the Great Lion of Democracy we have all been hoping for since we elected him.

[IDemo]

147. Her writing style reminds me of a Readers Digest article

Bullet points, minus the bullets.

[KG]

153. Nance Greggs LOL n/t

[grasswire]

155. Not a fan.

Never was.

[last1standing]

158. This is why I never bother to listen to Stephanie Miller.

If you object to the direction that Obama is taking this country then you must have ODS. That argument is insulting, simple, stale, and used primarily by those who cannot present a valid counter. Many of us don't have a problem with Obama, we just disagree with his center-right politics. Is that really so hard to swallow?

Instead of providing political insights, Miller offers the PG version of a morning zoo show. Plenty of noises and whacky impersonations but very little discussion. I'd rather listen to something more intelligent than fart jokes and zingers when tuned into Sirius.

[NealK]

161. +1 n/t

[Number23]

159. Gee, 300 recs on DU or connecting with a world wide audience??

300 recs on an obscure, "left" fringe web site or getting heard by thousands of Americans that come a hell of a closer to representing the TRUE Democratic base??

I know which one Nance is going with!!

[Andy823]

164. +1000 nt

[kiva]

160. NanceGreggs lost me when she insisted that

Americans needed to be patient and accept the ACA as the best deal that Obama could get for us at the same time that she was (and possibly still is) enjoying universal health care in Canada - she had no skin in the game and still thought she should be able to tell us what was and was not acceptable.

[last1standing]

165. I didn't mind when she expressed her opinion but it pissed me off when she tried to silence mine.

There was a time when I very much enjoyed her writing because its focus was inspirational; it was about what could be. But once the election was over she turned into a bully who spent most of her efforts trying to make sure that any voice to the left of hers was marginalized.

[kiva]

170. That was my experience,

with Nance and with a few other posters. The primary was bloody, but I think we survived it fairly well - it was the aftermath for me also.

[last1standing]

216. It's funny because I supported Obama in the primaries.

I knew he was conservative but so was Clinton. I figured at the time I would do what I'm currently doing, fighting to push a lesser of evils toward goals that will better serve the people of this country.

Unfortunately, some posters didn't see Obama as a politician but as a symbol for everything they believe. Criticizing a policy supported by Obama is taken as a direct personal attack on them instead of an honest policy debate. So when I said choosing Rick Warren to lead the inaugural convocation was an insult to the LGBT community, they said sit down and shut up. when I said that Obama should appoint an LGBTer to his cabinet, I heard the same. Every disagreement in policy is met with the same bullying tactics of trying to shut down debate with insults and suggestions that there's some sinister purpose to our disagreement such as racism or the above use of "ODS." It can't be that we genuinely disagree with the guy who has pushed for a healthcare policy straight out of the Heritage Foundation's playbook and continually floats "grant bargains" that cut social security and Medicare.

By the end, that's all Nance had to offer, insults and accusations. It's a shame because she is a good writer.

[laundry_queen]

241. ^^^EVERYTHING you just said. I remember it all.

I used to cheer Nance's rants against Bush...heck I cheered everything negative against that asshole. But when he was no longer in office, the rants didn't change - it continued to be about anger and bullying and not at all about nuance and policy. Only the targets of the rants changed - and many times the target was a large chunk of DU.

Many here on DU were able to make the transition after the election - the 'okay we won, now lets talk policy' transition, and those who see the world in black and white were not. Just as vigorous as the attack was against Bush, so was the adulation for Obama. I remember the 'shut up' stuff about Rick Warren. I never thought it was a good idea, and I disagreed with the choice and supported the LGBT community, but now that my daughter has come out, it bothers me all the more. Sadly it was only the start.

[dgibby]

176. Not to mention T.S'ed.

Lots of good Duers got served pizza when they dared argue with her. I miss them.

[last1standing]

218. Yep. A lot of great posters will never return because of the heavy handed moderation.

It still goes on but with the jury system it all depends on which side of the argument the jurors happen to be selected from. I guess that makes it better but I don't think it's a substitute for actually running the site with an even hand and respect for differing opinions.

[Andy823]

168. And you think he could have got more?

We are lucky we got the Obamacare. Heck even some democrats wouldn't have voted for a single payer system, and we know the republican weren't going to vote for it. If we had gotten nothing instead of the Obamacare, would that make you happy? At least now million of people will be able to get some kind of health care that is more affordable. Many of those are people who have had no insurance before, or people who have had pre-existing conditions and couldn't afford the sky high prices they had to pay to get health care.

I want to see a real universal health care system in this country as much as anyone else does, but I also am realistic enough to know what we did get is a stepping stone to universal health care, and without it millions of people would be worse off than they were before the health care reform bill was passed. I don't know about you but something is always better than nothing at all.

[kiva]

171. Yes, I do.

But we will never know since he didn't try.

[Andy823]

178. And how would he have done that?

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2013, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

He needs congress and as I said, even some democrats weren't going to go along with single payer. How would you have gotten it done?

[Cha]

199. I see what you mean by.. "proving her point".. they're

clueless about what went on but continue to whine about it like it's some inherent triggered reaction.

They didn't get their pony.. it must kill them that Obama care is helping so many people and a strong foundation for helping more people over the years.

Oh, and Nance is exponentially more politically astute than those who were screaming so loud about ACA in 2010 even is she was in Canada. She knew what was possible and wanted it for people who are living in the USA.

Mahalo Nance~

[Andy823]

345. Good points Cha

As usual!

[Kolesar]

187. You put her down because she is Canadian?

Way lame

[kiva]

200. No.

Read my post again, only this time go for comprehension - it's hard, but worth it in the long run.

[Kolesar]

201. A Canadian cannot have an opinion on US health care? That is a put down

comprehension - it's hard

[kiva]

204. She isn't a Canadian,

she's an American who lives in Canada. And participates in the Canadian health system. And thinks she should be able to tell Americans who do not have access to universal/single payer health care that they should suck it up because Obama says it's a good thing.

I feel the same way about anyone who lives in a truly civilized country with access to health care who thinks it's reasonable to those of us who do not that we should suck it up and just be happy.

[Kolesar]

206. So, writing from Canada, Nance should just "stifle herself"

BTW, How many letters did you write to Congress to get "single payer"?
Or wrote to the media?? Lots, I hope.
It would give you "authenticity"

[kiva]

207. That's it, my secret's out...

I hate Canadians. I loathe the Mounties, can't stand the politeness, and hate Canadian bacon.

Why no, I didn't write any letters or e-mails or make phone calls because I think getting fucked over is such a wonderful thing...and your poster girl thinks so too.

[treestar]

363. That's even worse

As an American, she has total right to an opinion! What a lame way to try to stifle someone else's opinion. If you moved there, you'd shut up about it? Of course not.

And let me add: she could always come back here. And as a non-Canadian may not have absolute rights in foreign land.

Stick to the subject rather than ad hominem. It's just an easy way out of having to explain the real reasons for your disagreement on an issue.

[kiva]

364. Do not tell me the 'real reasons' for my disagreement,

that implies that I am lying or that somehow you know me better than I know myself.

She has every right to an opinion - not because she's American but because this is a message board where anyone can post, at the discretion of the administrators of course.

Like many here I admired Nance's rants against Bush and cheered her on, but was less comfortable when she chose to use those rants to criticize anyone who didn't agree with Obama's policies. As I said above, I reached my breaking point when she, covered nicely with that Canadian health care system, ranted about those of us who were trying to get that same level of health care for ourselves.

That is hypocritical, and nasty.

[treestar]

365. the issue is the ACA

If you have real reasons for opposing it then state them. Nance's area of residence has nothing to do with it.

[kiva]

369. The issue is the ACA

and the people who tried, and are still trying, to convince us that paying an insurance company is the same as having health care - it is not. I do have health insurance, so yes I do know the difference.

If Nance chose to try to persuade people, it would have been different - instead she wrote screed after screed attacking anyone who was working for single payer health care because that was not what President Obama had agreed to back...and all that time she had health care. Sort of like when people with homes tell others to shut up about being homeless because hey, it could be worse, Romney (or McCain, or Bachmann, or Bush) could be president.

[treestar]

370. Everyone is "working for single payer healthcare"

the best they can in this political climate.

Insurance pays for health care. It's a matter of how it gets paid for. That's the idea. Everyone accepts that we need health care. But it has to be paid for some way. And in a way that a Congress will agree to.

[kiva]

372. I'm glad to hear that,

because I believe that universal health care is our most important domestic issue.

We'll probably continue to disagree about what could and could not have been passed and funded, which is OK since this is a discussion board and we're discussing

[NanceGreggs]

393. Uh, hate to be a pest

but could you please post the links to my "screed after screed attacking anyone who was working for single payer health care"?

Just one "screed" will do, actually. Given how many you have declared I've written, finding just one shouldn't be too taxing.

Here's a hint: You can probably find my anti-healthcare 'screeds' right beside my anti-GLBT-rights 'screeds', both filed under "non-existent".

DU has become FOX-News for the true, real, totally genuine true, true, true progressives - who believe that if they've heard something enough times, it actually becomes an undeniable fact.

Waitin' on those links, kiva.

[treestar]

360. Plenty of Americans made the same argument

You are simply making it personal and in fact saying Canadians have no right to an opinion merely because they have health care. Then why would that not apply to Canadians who agreed with you too? They too have no skin in the game and can afford to reject the ACA and have us make do with nothing until such time as we could get a President/Congress who would enact single payer. That could be a very long time.

I don't think the observation of political realities in America should be limited to Americans.

And in Canada they still may have a fight, as they have factions wanting to end their system.

[BumRushDaShow]

169. Hear hear for Nance!

Loved the journal rants as she was masterful in expressing her opinion.

Definitely miss her here but understand why so many decided to leave. DU has become a cesspool.

[Scurrilous]

174. Looks like she's gone to a better place.

[tblue37]

224. You make it sound as though she has died! nt

[Puglover]

188. +a trillion!

It's easy to post your rants to a bunch of like minded folks with OWS. (Love that Zorra) GD is a tough audience. I freely admit posting an OP here intimidates me. Obviously Nance prefers a non critical readership. Good for her. Apparently she has found it over at NewJerseyMavericks website.

Haven't seen you in awhile.


Now you I miss.

[Bluenorthwest]

280. Prisim nailed it to the wall, precise and absolutely accurate.

nt

[RetroLounge]

202. plagiarized Molly Ivins mode indeed

RL

[CreekDog]

240. true. though didn't plagiarize the good parts.

maybe that's a good thing.

[Starry Messenger]

245. But with italics.

Never forget

[WorseBeforeBetter]

228. Oof, that was good.

I never could stand her writing... glad to see I'm not alone. Same with Duchess What's-her-Name and AngryBlackLady and Spandan and...

[cui bono]

232. "you look like a puffed up, self-aggrandizing poofty"

This. And somehow the same people who have nothing to say except to insult those who thoughtfully criticize policy most likely make fun of the right's propensity to make fun of intellectuals and education.

[Union Scribe]

236. She's their Mitch Albom

Same formula. Add 1 part shallow sentiment to 2 parts irrational generalizations and stir briskly until glassy-eyed fans applaud.

[dgibby]

238. Not only Molly's writing style,

but used her photo as well. Things were going downhill for her fast and then she started posting her "selfies". Not helpful to her cause at all.

[SMC22307]

246. Curiosity got the better of me: The Apologist Thread

No Apologist Here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x103850#103931

[Bluenorthwest]

285. Such a time warp that thread is, the open hostility to gay people, to equality was so

unhinged around here, I can see why so many were ashamed and changed their user names. Sadly they can not change their styles enough to hide their pasts.

[SMC22307]

293. Occasionally I'll come across a Go Team! post about the DU halcyon days of yore...

must have been pre-2008, cuz that thread was toxic. And, I'll admit, hilarious in places. It's the nastiness, the drama, the doubling-down that I find fascinating, rather than just admitting one may be wrong, or that ideas weren't expressed clearly.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=103850&mesg_id=104374

[Bobbie Jo]

324. .

Saving for later.

Welcome back, again?

[NanceGreggs]

249. Okay, Prism

Put up or shut up.

"When the Obama administration played footsie with DOMA, she defended it to the hilt."

"She defended the most heinous shit - including the administration's initial anti-gay moves."

Where are the links? Oh, that's right, there aren't any available. That's because I never defended "the Obama administration 'playing footsie' with DOMA, nor any anti-gay moves by anyone.

One of the (several) reasons I left DU was because I was suddenly being accused of being "A well-known homophobe". Posters were replying to my OPs, regardless of topic, by calling me exactly that, and telling me to remove my rainbow avatar.

At first, I didn't know where this was coming from. I then found out that another website that lurks under a Tree had posted that I was - you guessed it! - a "well-known homophobe".
There were no links to anything I'd ever said, no evidence of same; just a flat-out statement.

That sentiment then started being posted on DU - again without any evidence to support my alleged "well-known homophobia".

About a year ago, a DU poster replied to one of my DFP articles that had been cross-posted here. He said - completely off-topic of the article, BTW - that he had "just that morning re-read my posts defending Donny McLurkin and Rick Warren's appearance at Obama's inaugural.

I have never posted a single word about either man, here or elsewhere, and asked said poster for links - said he shouldn't have any trouble finding them, as he'd "just read them that morning". Other posters asked for links as well - the poster refused to reply.

So I sent him a PM asking why he was accusing me of saying things I'd never said. His response: I've never liked you, and because you no longer post here, I can say whatever I want about you.

(Ironically enough, said poster later ranted on a Meta thread that posters who attribute statements to others on DU that they'd never made should be "PPR'd immediately", and has actually posted the same thing in another DU thread tonight.)

So I say it again: PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Post the links to where I have ever defended DOMA, or DADT, or any other anti-LGBT legislation.

And while you're searching in vain for any such posts, you might want to read this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/NanceGreggs/505

It's just one of my many, many DU posts about LGBT rights, and the importance of recognizing those rights not only as individuals, but as a nation.

I am not the least bit interested in your assessment of my writing skills - or anything else, for that matter. But accusing me of defending anti-LGBT legislation is an outright lie, and we both know it. And the fact that you have made that accusation without any evidence to support it speaks volumes about what kind of person you are - and, more to the point, what DU has become.

[Rex]

250. There you are!

[NanceGreggs]

255. Hi, Rex!

[Rex]

256. I think you made Prism go speechless!

Something I've never seen before.

EDIT- well times are way way off...but it will be funny to see the reply.

Good to see you!

[NanceGreggs]

266. Well, to be fair

Prism is probably very busy looking for links to back up their claims.

It's going to be a looooong night for Prism - tirelessly searching for things that don't exist.

Good to see you, too!

[Rex]

301. Ruh roh...somebody got their post hidden.

Guess you will never get a reply, since Prism is now blocked from making any comment in this thread. Serves him/her right. I am surprised it took that long to hide that nasty little rant.

[pinboy3niner]

258. HEY, didn't you hear? You don't post here any more!

Unless you use a sockpuppet!

Nice to see you, Nance. 'Round here it's the same ol', same ol' as you can see.

[Rex]

259. I miss NG OPs.

Speaking of...nope...better not go there.

[NanceGreggs]

265. DUH!

I completely forgot to use one of my sockpuppets to post in my own defense!

Quite frankly, they've been rather rather unruly lately. I think they've had a few too many mind-altering spins in the dryer.

One of them actually escaped via the lint trap, and has been posting the most vile things about the Obama administration being pro-static cling.

[pinboy3niner]

269. Heh heh

Just watch out for the dryer with your lint...

[kentauros]

296. You can spot them pretty easily, though:

They all wear mismatched socks!

[Cha]

262. Thank. You. Nance. nm

[MineralMan]

292. Nicetaseeya!

Keep 'em coming...

[Cha]

341. Good for the Jury! They voted to Hide that Lying Ugly Post 5-0!

Viva Canada Viva USA Viva France Viva the Planet

[Old and In the Way]

352. One of my favorite DUers!

I always knew where you were coming from...your critics, not so much. But, this being an anonymous political discussion board, I know there are 2 classes of disrupters - the stupid ones that manage 3 or 4 posts before getting their pizza...and the smart ones who attack by "out progressing" the majority of Democrats here. They especially focus their attention on strong communicators - posters like you. Keep giving them heartburn, Nance!

[grantcart]

384. Prism has been silenced on the subject.

The jury already rendered an opinion on his reply.

[Hekate]

396. Loveya, Nance. Thanks for coming at that guy with guns blazing

[malaise]

194. Love Nance and her hubby

Rec

[Tarheel_Dem]

237. Kick for Nance & Jeff!!!!

[gopiscrap]

251. Cool

[NanceGreggs]

252. While I'm here ...

Thanks to all who had such kind words to say.

To those whose words were less than kind - hey, you have a right to your opinion, same as everyone else.

[pinboy3niner]

261. To the less than kind--Fuck 'em

You don't deserve the false smears or the accusatory posts based on rumors that someone has heard.

Hang in there...

[Cha]

264. Mahalo, pinboy3niner. nm

[pinboy3niner]

268. Mahalo, Cha!

Hey, you and I don't always agree on everything, but we still love and respect each other. Imagine that!

[Cha]

270. I've noticed..

[Number23]

276. Well said, pinboy.

Trying to go off on Nance to impress their little pals and totally oblivious to the fact that the only people they're making look like an ass is themselves.

[Cha]

263. You're Welcome and Thank you, Nance~

[tavalon]

271. It's just great to see you post again, even if it is just a quick dart in and out

There is a lot I love about DU, but it's middle school cliquish games are a pain in the ass. We lost you as one of our best assets because haters gotta be haters and they didn't agree with you, so rather than arguing the merits, they played that stupid, stupid, schoolyard bully thing.

And this part is for the haters: I'm not one of Nance's minions (hey Nance, if you have any minions, could you send one my way. Need to do some filing and I don't want to) and in fact, she and I disagree pretty strongly on a point or three and yet, somehow, we can still be friends.

And frankly, even if I don't agree with her POV on something, her writing is so sublimely wonderful, I read everything she writes anyway. And that's what you people lost - one of the best writers on the left. That was dumb.

[NanceGreggs]

281. But you're supposed to agree

with everything I say, because according to the Tree people, you are one of my sockpuppets!

[msanthrope]

330. Good to see you Nance! nt

[NanceGreggs]

332. And good to see you again!

[bobduca]

368. Tree people?

They sound positively scary!

[Capt. Obvious]

278. Don't let the haters bog you down

You have nothing to apologize for.

[CreekDog]

279. I see what you did there

[Fla Dem]

282. NanceGreggs, sorry if I kicked a beehive with my OP.

I was just so pleased to hear your ODS rant read on air, I wanted to congratulate you. I knew you had experienced issues with some other DUer's, but didn't know of the depth their acrimony and hate went. But while I gave them an opportunity to once again attack you for your opinions, I hope it is also heartening to see how many DUer's support and miss you.

[NanceGreggs]

338. Please don't apologize!

I was very happy to see your OP; it is nice to be remembered here.

It was also fun to reconnect with some DUers I haven't spoken with in a while. I've kept in touch with many of my old friends via other sites - but sadly have lost touch with many as well.

So it's all good - and I thank you for posting. It was quite a surprise to learn that Stephanie Miller had read my piece, and fun to share that news with some of my old DU buddies!

back at ya!

[Cha]

342. I'm so glad you told us, Fla Dem.. Thank you!

And, as we can see.. Nance can handle it.

[Bobbie Jo]

348. Nance, if you're still around...

There are many of us who still love ya here. Reading your posts again just reminded me of how much I really enjoyed being part of this community when you were a regular fixture. It also made me realize how truly unrecognizable it has become.

Good to see you again, sweetie.

[NanceGreggs]

349. Thanks so much, Bobbie Jo

I've certainly enjoyed this visit with my old friends.

[CreekDog]

253. Yes, I think she's a members of DU

[Rex]

254. #249.

In the cyber flesh!

[tavalon]

272. She's a lurker now, because the "Heathers" were just too plentiful

and I think she just decided the crap wasn't worth it.

[MisterP]

317. the Heathers were too plentiful (and she didn't like the competition)

[tavalon]

344. I saw what you did there

I'm fairly sure you haven't seen the movie I referenced, Heather.

[Bobbie Jo]

347. .

Ya think?

[JustAnotherGen]

377. My thoughts exactly

I just want to let you know - bulimia was so last year.

[scheming daemons]

283. the 'cool kids' chased away a DU treasure

DU's loss

[Rex]

298. Not even.

She is right here in this very thread!

[tavalon]

374. Someone probably told her she was being discussed

she still has an account but rarely posts and probably rarely lurks. Apparently, I'm one of her sock puppets, so you don't need to believe me. BTW, I'm a NICU Nurse so the sock puppet theory is full of holes (yeah, stupid pun). I guess I should feel honored to be called her sock puppet - I wish I wrote as well as her. Hell, I wish a lot of people here wrote as well as she does.

She doesn't need us. Alas, we actually did need her. Yeah, she doesn't always flow with the group think around here, but I, for one, think that's a virtue, not a vice.

It's a small mind that attacks the person instead of debating the ideas, don't you think?

[Rex]

376. I agree and you are not the only

person I've seen accused of being her sock puppet. Take it and wear it as a badge of honor! I know I would! She is perhaps one of the best writers ever to show up on DU imo.

[tavalon]

380. I was going to make a satire out of it, but then last night at work

was so awful that it just didn't seem funny anymore. I spent half my night begging my patient to let go and the other half praying to his God (can a newborn have a God) to take him or at least let him stop hurting. I came home and cried and then I was going to make my rebut of the stupid sock puppet thing but now I just don't care. Except that I think my presence helped some, last night I would have preferred to be a sock puppet.

This place is mostly make believe. Last night, at work, was as real as it gets. Not heroic. Real and really, emotionally devastating.

I'm not her fucking sock puppet. She can write circles around me and I can shepherd little ones to health or to their end. They are both really important and as different as can be.

I'm not directing this at you - you seem to be balanced, rather than unhinged as some here have been.

[Rex]

381. Oh tavalon I am so sorry, I hope your patient

goes quietly into that good night. Real life makes this virtual one look like peanuts. As a person that has held a friends hand until her death from cancer, I can understand your concern and compassion. Please don't let this place get to you, recently I've blocked a lot of the hatemongers here and it seem like I got the old DU3 back.

[panader0]

289. Kick for Nance

[madamesilverspurs]

316. Reality check:

There are, at DU, a dozen or so self-appointed gatekeepers of the conversation. They know what they know, and visit retribution on anyone who dares to disagree with them; all too frequently their remarks verge on cruel and malicious. Like schoolyard bullies, they lack the authority to compel anyone's departure; but, like schoolyard bullies, they have the ability to make some peoples' continuing presence here too difficult to be worth the time. And we are diminished as a result. More's the pity.

[Number23]

336. Yep. And a fat slab of them showed up in this thread with their not even remotely clever

comments about the BOG or flat out personal attacks.

They have convinced themselves that people leave because they can't deal with the fact that not everyone adores the President. Such simple-minded thinking is quaint and much easier to accept than the fact that alot of people (particularly DUers of color and other supporters of this President) have left because they are sick and goddamned tired of the non-stop, fact-free hatred that is routinely tossed at this man by a group of fringers that don't represent the Dem party in any way shape or form. The fact that many in those folks also share the burden of not being smart enough to cross their legs properly is just an extra little Turd Cherry on the Shit Sundae.

[grasswire]

379. I have never seen any reference to your assertion...

....that people of color and/or supporters of the president have left DU.

Is that so? Could you show some examples of this?

[Number23]

391. Oh for God's sake. What are they supposed to do

Say "I'm black and I'm leaving DU!!" Is that what you need to see? This is easily one of the dumbest requests I've ever seen.

I have lost count of the number of black posters that no longer post here. I've found a couple on other web sites and they would rather eat glass than post here again. And a lot of Asians/Hispanics have left as well. If you have "seen no reference" of this, then perhaps it's because you've never bothered to look.

[grasswire]

392. Excuse me. I'm politically color blind.

I have no idea who here was or is any particular race or gender unless, of course, the user name so identifies him/her.

So I wonder how you sorted out the different colors and know how to identify? That's a mystery to me.

[Number23]

394. "I'm politically color blind."

And on that moronic note, I bid you goodbye.

[grasswire]

395. can't produce any backup for your assertion, I see. nt

[Andy823]

346. Yep, I agree

And not only do they keep the BS coming, they have their own little group that worships them like some kind of a god. Some people just jump on their band wagon with lots of recs to cause problems and stir things up, that would be the right wing trolls that infest the board these days. And don't let me forget all the Paul drones tat have also showed in in large numbers, I am sure they do their fair share of recs also.