Police can't stop man armed with shotgun & side arms from walking by elementary schools

[fried eggs]

At least eight people called 911 Thursday about the man with a shotgun slung over his shoulder. A dozen people called Tuesday when the same man walked around with a hunting rifle in the same area.

Police say they respond to the calls to put people at ease.

Police admit it can be frustrating and a drain on resources, but they have to protect the man's rights, too.

Police say they don't know who the man is because he's refused to give them his name. And police can't require him to provide his name or identification, because he hasn't broken any laws.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Police-Man-with-gun-outside-Hillsboro-middle-school-no-threat-224502991.html?tab=video&c=y

[samsingh]

1. another gun loving loon

[TeamPooka]

133. let's get this straight: Police can stop & frisk anyone they want in NYC but OR police can't get ID

from this guy as stalks a school.
Okay.
This country is soooo fucked.

[furious]

134. Actually, NYPD can't just stop and frisk anymore,

a judge has restricted that practice as of last month I believe.

[Politicalboi]

173. Yeah, tell that to the cop

Who is now frisking you, and he'll show you other laws he can use against you.

[leveymg]

185. If you can't produce ID during a stop in NY, they will take you in.

[furious]

192. During a stop, yes

but police have to have probable cause to stop you, I can't just walk up to a citizen walking down the street carrying a gun just because they're carrying a gun, it's legal in my jurisdiction so I have no probable cause to stop and demand to see some ID, I can ask, but the citizen can tell me to go pound sand and walk off and there's nothing I can legally do about it.

[leveymg]

234. If he fits the profile of a law-breaker, he can be stopped, as in NY.

All that the local police need to justify stopping him and taking him in for refusal to produce an ID is to, in some way, make a reasonable connection between the individual and some crime, any crime in the area. The SCOTUS decision on that is Hibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004). There has to be a "stop and identify" statute on the books.

If the cops really want to get him off the street, they could arrest him for brandishing a weapon, for jay walking, for disorderly conduct, or some other pretext else and let his lawyers haggle it out. But, obviously the local cops don't want to get him off the street.

[furious]

238. I'm very familiar with that case.

And the "in some way" is really going down a hill that I would object to.

We, the police, get lambasted all the time for violating citizens civil rights, for overstepping our bounds, but yet, you seem to be saying in this case it would be ok to make up a reason to stop someone and say, hey, you look like someone we have a bolo out on, break out some ID or I'm going to arrest you and hold you until we determine who you are.

Are you really sure you want to go there? Especially against someone doing something that's presently legal?

No, the best course of action is to get these open carry laws rescinded and then this nonsense will cease, making my job that much easier, which is good.

[leveymg]

248. I was observing the commonplace practice, not endorsing its application. The point is,

it's curious in this case that police, with all their discretion in determining reasonable suspicion and applying dubious statutes such as loitering, didn't apply it that way in this case. I agree, the best way to deal with this is to rescind open carry. But, then, there's the NRA . . .

[furious]

249. Ahhh, ok, I understand now.

I'm fortunate that I'm a member of a very progressive Sheriff's Department, our Sheriff is very civil rights oriented and won't tolerate any of us fucking with the citizens of the county.

And as far as I'm concerned, the NRA can go pound sand up it's ass.

[leveymg]

253. Can you fix my parking tickets?

[furious]

254. LOL.

Above my pay grade, sorry.

[defacto7]

386. a Crazy idea....

Maybe he is a pro gun control, anti open carry protester who is doing this to push the bar enough to get some local political action on the subject. Forget the razor, maybe he on the side of getting rid of open carry laws.

Too dumb? Maybe not.

[furious]

388. Any things possible,

but for me to accept that, I would have to see irrefutable proof.

[defacto7]

389. Well, there is none.

It was just a thought. Stating another possible strangeness in this craziness.

[furious]

390. And it's just as valid as the opposing view.

Something to think about definitely.
As a cop, I can't take either side officially, my main concern is, is this man breaking any laws? If not, what can I respectfully request of him to cease his activities that are upsetting the citizens of my jurisdiction while recognizing that, despite him being a colossal dick, he has the right to do so?
Very perplexing.

[NutmegYankee]

283. That's not legal.

You are not required to carry ID in America. Lets say you are jogging and stopped: If asked to identify yourself, you can give name and address. That satisfies the requirement.

[leveymg]

337. That's the way it's been applied in NY. NY State has a "stop and identify law" which requires

anyone suspected of anything to reveal their name and address to the police "and a (satisfactory) explanation of conduct." About half the states have similar laws.

§ 140.50 Temporary questioning of persons in public places; search for
weapons.
1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an
arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public
place located within the geographical area of such officer's employment
when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has
committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor
defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an
explanation of his conduct.

Since the cops in NY routinely extend that to stop and frisk, particularly groups of minority youths, that often turns to arrest situations for things such as minor drug possession. If you are stopped with a group and anyone in that group ends up being arrested, they can and will take you in if you can't produce a positive ID.

[NutmegYankee]

372. You repeated what I said. You can verbally identify yourself. No ID needed.

You can never be arrested for not carrying an ID on you in the United States.

[Recursion]

331. Well, NY isn't supposed to stop & frisk anymore

Trading liberty for security is bad, right?

[roguevalley]

250. they could have arrested him for indecent exposure

wanking little penis freak

[furious]

251. No, they couldn't,

and if they did, idiot boy would have probably sued and won.

[roguevalley]

313. I guess i should have flagged that as a joke. Tiny penis waving joke?

Big gun, little bits. my dad always figured if you carried a gun like that you were waving your weiner. I guess it wasn't clear enough.

[furious]

317. I guess I should have seen that.

Too many hours without sleep. Sorry.

[roguevalley]

325. no problem, darling. :D:D:D

[madinmaryland]

2. I think they could get him for indecent exposure.

[furious]

8. I know this is probably a joke,

but, no, we can't.

[madinmaryland]

228. See, to me, walking around with a weapon showing is the same as walking around with

your penis hanging out.

[furious]

231. I agree it's a stupid fucking thing to do,

but until the OR. legislature or the city makes it illegal, there's really nothing the police can do.

[roguevalley]

314. I just posted the same thing and got slagged. :D

[rrneck]

3. Dumb ass. nt

[furious]

4. These kind of idiots do put a strain on our limited resources,

and the author is correct, unless someone is suspected of violating the law, they don't have to show us any ID, we can ask, but they can basically tell us to fuck off and walk away.

[petronius]

5. What a complete jackass - he's making a statement, all right... (nt)

[Loudly]

6. Oregon is very paradoxical.

Liberal/progressive in many respects.

But also gun worshipping. Which I don't equate whatsoever with liberal/progressive.

[Decaffeinated]

58. Freedom of choice is the constant...

[Loudly]

59. Except the choice not to see weapons displayed as adornments, apparently.

[Decaffeinated]

74. I can think of lots of things I'd prefer not to see...

Doesn't mean they should be illegal...

[Loudly]

87. If the penis is deliberately protruding from the pants, what do we say to the penis owner?

Don't we say: Hide that thing away, pervert?

Isn't that deemed to be society's proper and justifiable response?

[furious]

90. The law needs to be changed, I agree with that,

but until it is, there is nothing the police can do to stop this idiot.

[Loudly]

96. Yes, it is for the People to mock and ridicule him to his face.

Which the police cannot stop either.

[furious]

98. That's possibly the best course to take,

but as a cop, I can't tell people that. (wink wink, cough, cough).

[skydive forever]

160. Which is why I could never be a cop.

I don't envy you guys at all.

[whopis01]

394. Public nudity is legal in Oregon

It is protected under free speech.

So, at least in that location, the response deemed to be proper and justifiable by society is not to tell them to hide it away.

[YoungDemCA]

230. Sounds like Colorado in some respects, no?

nt

[defacto7]

387. Like many states, Oregon is divided by the most populous counties

Multnomah and Washington plus Lane county (Eugene) being the liberal left, and the rest is middling to extreme right wing. There are a lot of Oregonians who cross this county lines to make these statements. Heck, Clackamas is just south of Washington Co. and that is very RW.

[Eleanors38]

467. IIRC, some gun-controllers in DU prefer open-carry to concealed-carry.

[FarCenter]

7. Just post his face on all local media and you'll likely identify him pretty soon.

On a public thoroughfare he has no expectation of privacy.

[HappyMe]

12. What would that do?

I don't think he should be parading around, but identifying him doesn't do squat.

[FarCenter]

14. With a name you can do a background check. Wants and warrants, interview neighbors and managers.

You can also determine whether he has made some types of gun purchases.

You want to determine which of his screws are loose/missing.

[HappyMe]

23. I don't think all of that

should be done by anybody but the police.

What if you are walking by a school and somebody doesn't like the way you look. Should they just be able to interview your neighbors, employer, run a background check and see which of your screws are loose?

What you're suggesting borders on vigilante justice.

[FarCenter]

43. I think the police should do the investigation; they should also provide an escort to his home/car

in order to make sure that he gets home safely. Of course they could also note his address/license plate number. And he is driving a car, they can ask for the registration and driver's license.

The news report portrays the police as impotent, whereas there is a lot they can do.

[Duckhunter935]

46. so what other legal

activities are you going to have the police intervene. I find it interesting that a lot of people despise the police until they want them.

The guy is an idiot and does the RKBA side no good.

[FarCenter]

52. I support the police, and they should investigate someone who is behaving abnormally with a weapon.

I'm sure that some of my HS teachers had shotguns in the trunks of their cars, since they went duck hunting before class in the morning.

But they didn't ostentatiously walk around the school with them.

[rl6214]

95. Agreed about the guy being an idiot but

A whole bunch of and juvenile post in this thread

[Bernardo de La Paz]

115. The police investigate lots of other legal activities, like Occupy & photographers & MLK Jr etc. nt

[HappyMe]

50. He technically didn't break the law.

Good grief! First people here complain that the cops are overbearing. Now all of a sudden, it's cool to arrest somebody that isn't breaking the law.

I don't like this shit any more than anybody else, but the city needs to step up and make an ordinance about this. Then they can arrest the guy.

[FarCenter]

55. I'm not suggesting that the police arrest him.

But it is a public sidewalk and the police have every right to walk along with him in order to provide him protection.

[HappyMe]

62. Well, what happened to the big investigation you were calling for?

[FarCenter]

67. You can do a background check on someone without arresting them.

[HappyMe]

69. In the meantime, while they are dillydallying

with this asshat, somebody 4 blocks away is getting their ass kicked.

The city needs to make a law change here. Then the cops can legitimately do something.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

104. how very NSA of you...

the man has broken no laws, but you want him investigated? hmmmm... that logic sounds familiar.

sP

[FarCenter]

264. Hey, that PRISM thing has to be good for something!

[Duckhunter935]

65. and while he is being "escorted"

real crime is happening.

Work at changing the open carry statute not harassing an idiot practicing his 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Again he is an idiot and I do not condone it. What other rights are you going to cry about when it impacts you down the road.

[FarCenter]

71. Yes, those lost dog and cat-up-a-tree calls might not get answered for an hour or two.

You might possibly have to take someone off of a radar speed trap for a couple of hours.

But you can always pull the officer off for a domestic altercation or to break up a bar fight.

Haven't you seen your police given an escort to a funeral procession? Are there crime waves during those?

[furious]

60. You don't know much about police procedures do you?

Just because someone is driving a car, unless they've broken a law, I can't just pull them over the see their OL or reg.
I would be the one facing disciplinary action if the citizen filed a complaint.

If what this idiot is legal, we have no legal right to take any action against him.
It sucks.

[FarCenter]

79. OK, but can't you run his license plate to see whether the car is stolen?

Or the automated license plate reader on your patrol car can.

[furious]

83. Yeah, we can do that, but do you really think this idiot would be driving a stolen car?

Especially when he knows the controversy he's creating?
I'll bet my pension that this guy is squeaky clean and takes care not to break any laws.

[blueknight]

196. technically thats true

but cops around here always make shit up if they want to pull you over. they will say you were swerving, went across the double line etc.

[furious]

201. Our department doesn't operate that way,

our Sheriff is big on civil rights and will ream any deputy that's found to be in violation of our policies/regs.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, clearly it does, but that's not how we operate and I wouldn't approve of it from any cop, no matter the jurisdiction.

[treestar]

61. It's not because of the way he looks

[HappyMe]

64. No shit.

[Red Mountain]

286. Only by the police? Why?

Anybody can run a background check on anybody. For any reason. For a low low price. Google it. This guy actually shows some signs of needing one. He's not walking by...he's on parade. It's a parade of two-his agenda and him.

[csziggy]

200. His face is out there in the TV station video in the OP link

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Carrying-a-gun-around-schools-didnt-work-out-quite-as-man-hoped-224634911.html?tab=video&c=y

His interview proves he's an moron, IMO. Not all of it is transcribed in the attached story. I hope his mother, who he says is a teacher at one of the schools he terrified, kicks his ass for being such a dumb ass.

He reminds me of too many of the school shooters. He really doesn't care that he scared so many people - it's all about him and his right to carry arms even when they are not needed.

[FarCenter]

207. I was wondering why the journalists hadn't appeared

Where are the paparazzi when you really need them?

The management is probably going to question his mother about his mental state.

[mainer]

307. Show his face to the world.

He's in a public place. Let him deal wit the fallout..

[MineralMan]

9. This is in Oregon.

Some parents need to shadow this moron, walking about 12 feet behind him wherever he goes when he's near these schools. Say nothing. Just follow him. That would also be legal. Before long, he'd start feeling uneasy, and would probably eventually leave.

[hunter]

53. Like this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090329

[MineralMan]

81. Nope. Just walk along behind him.

Keep him company and let him know that people are aware that he is there.

It's amazing what that can do.

It's a bit like noticing a strange car in your neighborhood, with someone sitting in it watching some house. I've found that stepping out on my front porch and looking at that strange car generally gets it to move along.

[hunter]

91. We enjoy drama in our family.

The kids I catch spray-painting graffiti on my back wall don't hate me, but they do think I'm a little crazy.

[libdem4life]

136. Thought about that, but this guy is clearly not all there and definitely has an authority

complex...kind of like a Zimmerman type...looking for a reason to engage. The police should follow him, perhaps, put a tail on him...they can do that, I think??

[MineralMan]

138. Maybe they could, but they won't.

Others can, and they might. See, the thing is that if they guy reacts and attempts to threaten, then he has broken the law, and the police can do something.

If I were following him for effect, I wouldn't say a word to him, even if he said something to me. I'd just follow him, a few paces back, silently and unarmed, except for the video capability of my phone. He'd either quit doing this or he'd react in some sort of threatening way. Either way, mission accomplished.

If two or three people followed him simultaneously, it would speed up the results.

Folks who are paranoid don't like being followed. It bothers them...a lot.

[libdem4life]

148. Could be, but paranoids don't react like normal people, and they hear voices that might sound like

they are coming from the people following him. I think it more likely they might choose to remove those people/voices who were following them...another Zimmerman.

If someone were toting a sign something like "F### the Police" in front of the police department every day, in essence what this guy is doing to kids and families, I think they'd find a way. Sure glad it's not in my town.

[MineralMan]

152. Perhaps. I don't think so.

This guy's attempting to make some kind of point. I'd be making another point by following him. It might make him nervous. I hope it would. Eventually, the nervousness would override his need to make that point in that place, I suspect.

Anyhow, if he decided that threatening me was a good idea, then the police would have cause to question him a bit more closely. I wouldn't be worried about my own safety in that situation. Still, it would be better if more than one person was to follow him. That would work more quickly.

[libdem4life]

168. Thinking you haven't been around Paranoid Schizophrenics or the like. Unfortunately, I have.

He has a gun and is taunting the police and the community and social mores. Hearing voices and assault weapons near kids ... that's more than making a social point.

I do hope you're right, however. Hopefully this is the last we hear about it.

[MineralMan]

170. I've been around all sorts of people.

You don't know anything about me, really.

I've said what I would do if someone was doing that in my neighborhood. I live just a few blocks from a school.

[libdem4life]

182. No I don't, just know that there is something mental going on there...clearly...maybe medications?

Often worse than the mental condition. But it is true, we react according to our experiences. I just wish I could get George Zimmerman off my mind and hope for the best.

[MineralMan]

202. Really, this moron is probably not actually mentally ill,

in the traditional way. He's out there to make some sort of point about firearms. I wouldn't be at all concerned that he would act violently if I followed him around like his own personal shadow. It would, however, annoy the shit out of him, but he's walking a fine line between exercising his "rights" and doing something illegal.

He's attempting to make some sort of moronic statement by doing this. Annoying him and doing so by exercising my rights to occupy the same sidewalks he's using to make his point would be my point. Almost without question, he would stop doing what he's doing, because the counterpoint is being made.

He thinks he's making some sort of important point. I'd be making my own point about his activity. I would not have to say a word to him. He'd get my point pretty quickly, I think.

I also have a CCW permit, although I almost never carry a firearm. He would not know that, though. He's visibly armed. Some guy following him might well be armed, too, but he wouldn't really know that.

[kestrel91316]

191. He is in a public place so he has no expectation of privacy. So, in addition to

following him constantly, I'd be taking lots of photos of him and then posting about the whole thing on FB. Eventually he'd be ID'd.

He's an asshat making a point, but two can play at that game.

[Lizzie Poppet]

193. That seems like a good way to handle it.

He's standing on his rights...but so can you.

[Duckhunter935]

195. agreed nt

[furious]

204. I would also suggest that at the same time,

they lobby their state legislature to change the law, this would put an end to this nonsense.

[MineralMan]

205. Yup. Point/Counterpoint.

It's a draw, but draws a different kind of attention to him than he anticipates. No problem. It would work just fine. He'd move on to some other nonsense activity.

[kestrel91316]

217. He'd probably respond by getting asshattish and making a threat, and then he COULD be arrested.

Guys like this want to be the ONLY ones with rights.

[MineralMan]

219. Depends. If he's not a complete moron, he'd know that doing

that would end his "exercise of rights." Judging by what he's up to, I'd think he knows exactly where the line is. And that's why the perfectly legal following of him would force the issue. I might even take my nice doggy with me. He loves to go for a walk.

If he decided to get all threatening and like that, then the police would be able to look further into his activities. I would hope for that, but I imagine he knows where the line is and would simply seek some other place to "exercise his rights."

Not every 2nd Amendment fanatic is mentally ill or stupid. Some are, but this one looks like he has his legal shit together. So do I.

But, I'm not in Oregon, and nobody's walking around with open firearms here where I live. So, the situation won't arise.

[Decaffeinated]

391. That's a good way to get your pup blasted...

... if he (the armed guy you are following) can articulate a threat.

Leave the dog out of it if you are going to go out with your tough guy pants on.

[Squinch]

453. That's kind of genius.

[MattBaggins]

449. I think you are correct.

I had the same idea about following this guy.

He would quit doing this in a heartbeat.

[MineralMan]

450. Thanks. Folks like this guy don't like

the light on them very much. He may be following the law, but so would I in following him. Just walking on the public sidewalk, you know. I think he'd find something else to do pretty soon.

[Eleanors38]

468. Inreresting tactic gun-control "activists" should consider...

Of course, those considering such actions should profile themselves: Are they less confrontational, paranoid, desirous of conflict, mentally stable than the subject of their wrath and fear?

[furious]

139. Police aren't going to waste resources on someone doing something that's legal.

What needs to happen is for the OR. Legislature to change the law making what this idiot is doing illegal.

[libdem4life]

162. If I'm a parent at that school and my kid gets hurt ...that which supposedly makes it a

crime...guaranteed there would be legal issues. My child (as well as the community) feels threatened. So who's going "Stand My Child's Ground?"

And I don't agree with "wasting resources"...public protection is Their Job...regardless.

[furious]

169. In this day and age of police departments budgets being cut,

believe me when I say we wouldn't waste the resources on someone doing something that's presently legal.

Our Sheriff's department alone is 6 deputies short because of budget cuts, we wouldn't have the deputies to do what you suggest.

[libdem4life]

176. Not disagreeing, but with the press there now...priorities change.

It's also the day and age of school shootings, multiple massacres, wannabes, etc. And it doesn't take much to put a tail on him when he leaves...find out where he lives...get him on a equipment charge...suspicion ... as he is a suspicious character. How do they know the gun is legal? Registered?

If he was a black guy with tattoos...just wondering...

[Eleanors38]

469. Well, black guys did so at the state capitol bldg. In California some years back.

[ZRT2209]

206. what could be a higher priority than protecting school children?

[Blue_Tires]

459. "Police aren't going to waste resources on someone doing something that's legal..."

Which is of course why there *isn't* a decades-long history of settlements for negligent shootings, wrongful arrests, racial profiling, forced confessions, manufactured evidence, etc. etc...

[Logical]

141. It amazes me how many DU members want to deny this guy his right to do it. Nt

[MineralMan]

145. Nah. I just want to follow him from behind as he

engages in his legal activity. You know, just to make sure no harm comes to him. Just follow him. I'm betting he goes away when I do that.

I have an equal right to walk on those streets, I think. Don't you think so?

[Logical]

151. I 100% agree you do! And we should publish his face.....

But I'm really surprised at the number DU members who do not think he should be able to do that if he wants to. We might not like it, But he has the right to do it if it's legal.

[MineralMan]

155. People have the "right" to do lots of things that are

really bad ideas. This guy's doing that. So, someone else exercising his "rights" might be a good counter to this. Anyhow, that's what I'd do if it were in my neighborhood.

[Logical]

158. I would too. And tape him the whole time. nt

[MineralMan]

164. Well, I'd have my cell phone ready to video him at any time.

Video eats up memory too quickly to do it constantly.

I predict he wouldn't continue long with some big bearded guy following along behind him. That's what I predict.

[Logical]

165. I agree! I would tape him just to annoy him. nt

[libdem4life]

211. I'm not clear what right we want to deny...If he's a mental institution escapee, say

probably be a good thing to know. Mentally healthy folk aren't likely to spend their day engaging in this kind of a display of power...even over the police. This assault-weapon, gun-toting, in-your-face behavior might benefit by some well-placed suspicion and fact finding. This is not normal behavior, by any means. He's clearly a suspicious character.

This is an interesting discussion and fascinating situation, actually. So, to take it out of the gun dimension, if he were bearing a bow and arrow or a large cleaver, it would be the same for me.

And what about stalking? If some ex-wife or ex-husband starts to carry a weapon (or bow and arrow/cleaver) on public property around the home, I'm hoping they could get some help from the police. What if he were a big black man, legally parked, getting guns in and out, toting in an upper-class white community? Really.

Hope it goes away for the people and kids of that town.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

435. Again, there's no protected right to disturb the peace.

If someone's does something that causes great panic just to prove some point, why should we expect legal protection for those actions?

[Blue_Tires]

451. In the irony of ironies, he's too ignorant to realize

stunts like this are only going to stir up the "There oughta be a law!" crowd who might just succeed in imposing restrictions on the rights of ALL Oregon gun owners...Is that what he really wants?? Because NOTHING greases the gears at the state capitol faster than drafting a law to protect puppies, kitties and children....

[Red Mountain]

293. I'd take a day off work....

If somebody tried this at one of my kids schools I'd walk behind him with a shotgun and a t-shirt that said 'I'm with stupid' and/or 'My child attends this school'.

What this guy is doing isn't REASONABLE. It is deeply odd. Not normal.

Is a psych eval too much to ask?

[Agnosticsherbet]

10. Another terrorist protesting his right to tyranny. n/t

[etherealtruth]

11. Just as the gun nuts want it

If we stop people from parading around the periphery of elementary schools with loaded guns .... its a slippery slope (a slippery slope to what? sane gun laws?)

[CanonRay]

13. Why don't they find his vehicle

and ticket it or tow it. You can always find some bullshit reason.

[furious]

16. And if he sues for harassment?

We can't illegally ticket and tow a vehicle, then we're breaking the law and subject to a lawsuit.

[ZRT2209]

209. oh yea, this guy is made of money to hire an attorney. riiiiight.

And I'm sure an attorney would just JUMP at the chance to take the case.

$2000 retainer? he'll just pull that right out of his wallet in cash!

[furious]

215. Happens all the time,

Cities and police departments get sued all the time by these open carry idiots, and the idiots usually win.
Lawyers do jump at the chance to sue for violation of civil rights.

And how do you know what this idiot's financial status is?

[HangOnKids]

225. Yeah just like we know you are law enforcement

What a HOOT!

[ZRT2209]

255. if he had a job he'd be at work instead of playing with his gun

[furious]

257. Google it.

Whether you believe it or not, it happens, that's one of the reasons that our Sheriff won't tolerate us messing with open carriers in the county, he doesn't want a lawsuit against the department or county for something that's legal to do.

I suggest you look up Philadelphia Police being sued, along with a couple of departments in California.
There are numerous instances of this happening, just look it up.

[ZRT2209]

262. full ignore. I don't ever need to hear what you have to say about your gun.

[furious]

265. Ok.

[furious]

258. How do you know that he doesn't work nights?

Or maybe the swing shift?
Your making assumptions without any facts.

[Posteritatis]

232. Quite a few probably would, actually. NRA'd be all over that. (nt)

[Lizzie Poppet]

17. He probably lives in the neighborhood.

FWIW, although I'm certainly pro-gun-rights, I think this guy is a grandstanding idiot.

[HappyMe]

25. Yeah.

Being an asshole to prove a point isn't the way to go.

[rl6214]

105. This

[Eleanors38]

470. I'm with you. Gun-controllers have some good ideas as to courses of action...

Let's see if they act on them.

[rl6214]

101. You said it

"Bullshit reasons"

Really progressive.

[Paladin]

107. Lecturing us on what's progressive? I don't think so. (nt)

[rl6214]

125. So making a comment is now lecturing?

Ok

[Paladin]

178. Your words speak volumes, unfortunately. (nt)

[rl6214]

221. Ok

[Robb]

15. This "movement" is astounding to me.

He's clearly using the letter of the law to protest, what, that the law isn't lax enough?

Does he really think doing this over and over will result in a relaxing of gun laws?

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. hit.nail.head

You'd have to be an utter dunce not to realize this is counterproductive.

[furious]

19. This "movement" didn't work so well

in Sacramento when the Black Panther Party showed up with long guns on the steps of the Capitol bldg..
These idiots are no friends of legitimate gun owners.

[Fumesucker]

180. The difference being the Black Panthers knew full well how "the man" was going to react

Of course this guy quite possibly knows some people in LE and already knows they'll leave him alone.

[furious]

199. That's a very real possibility.

[Pisces]

302. THis is going to get him shot by a concerned, paranoid parent.

[Duckhunter935]

310. well then

they will have to live with the consequences and very possible jail time for shooting an individual who is within the law and not threatening. If you look closely his shotgun is attached to his backpack.

[Pisces]

328. Nah, just standing my ground. I felt threatened.

[quinnox]

20. Someone should call the cops next time he pulls this and say they are reporting an active shooter

at the school he is by, that ought to put a crimp in his style.

[furious]

22. And whoever does that will get arrested for a false police report.

Don't do it, people like me will show up on the doorstep of the caller with a shiny pair of matching braclets.

[quinnox]

24. it could be done anonymously, of course

using one of those throw away cell phones you can get at 7-eleven.

[HappyMe]

27. That's an asshole thing to do.

Why take the cops away from legit crimes.

[furious]

31. Person is telling people to commit a crime

against a non crime.

[HappyMe]

38. The guy is a class A jerk for doing that.

But commiting a crime and taking police resources away from actual crimes put other people's lives at risk.

[furious]

28. Here's another reason why it's a stupid idea.

Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

That kind of call will get a full tactical police response, taking resources from other areas of the city, and believe me when I tell you, it won't be hard to find the person who made the false report.

You really need to think about that. We have no tolerance for vindictive false reports like that.

[rl6214]

106. Yeah, everyone's got one of those laying around.

[Lizzie Poppet]

108. Well...every drug dealer, anyway.

[Duckhunter935]

48. And I hope they go to jail for a long time

and you can explain to the victims why a police officer was not available to respond. You up to that task?

[sarisataka]

72. Gee, what could go wrong

one or more school go into lock down, media descends like vultures, parents hearing reports of a school shooting, police pulled from every other call expecting carnage and an active shooter...

Wouldn't you be proud...

[msongs]

21. perfect case for using stand your ground to eliminate a threat to kids nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

26. Nope. That would get you tossed in the slammer for murder.

SYG doesn't work that way, for one thing. More to the point, Oregon law on legal use of force specifies demonstrable, present threat...and a slung or holstered weapon doesn't qualify.

This guy's being a jackass...but he's not doing anything illegal. I haven't read the news stories, so I'm not sure where this is taking place here in Oregon. Not in Portland, as there's a law against open carry here (in all of Multnomah County, in fact).

[furious]

29. There are some really dumb suggestions being floated here.

[fried eggs]

30. Well, looks like people are doing back flips to defend this nut

And make no mistake, he is a nut, as no normal person would think it's appropriate to scare teachers and children to "make a statement."

[HappyMe]

32. I don't think anybody's defending this guy.

People are just making ridiculous suggestions about what to do about it.

[fried eggs]

40. The only ridiculous suggestion I see is that his rights trump

everyone else's right to feel safe at school.

[HappyMe]

45. Nobody in this thread has said that

the guy was in the right.

Vigilante bullshit and calling the cops on false pretenses is just as wrong.

[furious]

35. I've seen no defense of this idiot here.

Which post defends this?

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. No one here's defending this idiot.

Explaining why something like attacking the guy or even calling in a false police report about him isn't "defending" him.

[Duckhunter935]

42. name one

I bet you are not going to or will move the goalposts.

[Recursion]

380. His point is to get people like us to baselessly diagnose him as mentally ill

To show how unreasonable "our side" is. It's working.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. It was in Hillboro. In Washington County

nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

57. Thanks!

So far as I know, only Beaverton and Tigard have prohibitions against (unlicensed) open carry in Washington County.

[Xithras]

159. Speaking as a gun owner with a current CCW...

...if I see someone advancing toward my kids school with multiple firearms, they're going to be stopped one way or another. I'll risk the damned jury before I'll let some nut scare the hell out my children and their friends just to make some f'd up "point". I live in a relatively conservative area with a large number of parents and gun owners, and I guarantee that anyone attempting this near our schools would develop an acute plasma retention problem long before they got within range of the local campuses.

The Constitution protects your rights from the government. It doesn't mean jack shit to an angry parent. My respect for someone else's rights is secondary to MY right to protect my family and community. I suspect that most juries would agree.

[Lizzie Poppet]

181. I'm both of those things, too.

But I have to tell you that unless that guy was presenting an overt, demonstrable threat (and carrying slung and holstered weapons doesn't qualify), shooting his WOULD land you in very, very deep shit. A jury isn't going to have a lot of leeway in that regard...not without it ending up in a near-certain mistrial.

Up in his grill? No problem...I'd not blame any parent for that. Ventilating him out of the gate? That's murder.

[Xithras]

336. I'm not stupid

Approaching an idiot like this with a gun drawn is an invitation to a prison term. You're much better off getting in his way and making it clear that you're going to beat him into unconsciousness if he takes another step toward the school. I'm a pretty big guy, and I spend at least 10 hours a week at the gym and am in great shape physically, so I don't have much fear of an old fashioned fistfight.

If he's dumb enough to try and draw, all bets are off. Since morons like this tend to use their firearms to compensate for the fact that they're cowardly little shits who feel powerless in the "real world", I'd call it 50/50 that he would.

I'm a lifelong gun owner and have nothing against either firearms ownership OR open carry, but the entire reason for carrying around schools like this is to intimidate, and I learned a long time ago that the quickest way to get rid of a bully is to stand up to him. The police have their hands tied because of the law, but parents don't.

[Blue_Tires]

443. Of course it's only "murder" for white victims

[sarisataka]

76. Well I guess you get points for honesty,

and just saying stupidity is cause for murder

[Eleanors38]

471. If it's so "perfect," you will try that?

[KansDem]

33. "Stop and frisk?"

C'mon, folks! The NYPD does it!

[furious]

36. We. Can't. Legally. Do. That.

[csziggy]

93. Yeah, NYPD can stop and frisk random brown skinned people for no reason

http://www.vice.com/read/we-spoke-to-innocent-men-who-were-stopped-and-frisked?utm_source=vicetumblrus

But Hillsboro, Oregon police can't stop a white guy carrying guns around a school?

What is WRONG with this picture?

The profile of school shooters fits this white as much as some invented profile of criminals the NYPD might use fits the thousands of brown skinned people they have stopped and harassed. If the people who NYPD stopped refused to provide ID, I bet they would be hauled into jail immediately even though those people have not broken any laws.

Also contrast the thousands of arrests of Occupy protestors for all kinds of invented reasons - often for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time or simply exercising their First Amendment right of Free Speech. They weren't parading around sensitive locations with weapons for no good reason.

Why is this Oregon guy allowed to refuse to provide ID while he is carrying weapons near schools and repeatedly upsetting neighborhoods?

[furious]

100. He can refuse to show ID because he's not breaking any law.

We can't just walk up to citizens and ask them for ID if they're not doing anything illegal or we have no evidence of a crime being committed by the citizen.

[JoeyT]

127. Could they ask to see his carry permit?

I'm not familiar with Oregon's gun laws, but I know in my state if the police see you with a handgun, they're probably going to ask to see your permit.

When I got mine* I was advised to keep it on me at all times that I had a firearm outside of my house.

*I don't actually carry a gun. I just wanted one more form of ID because a lot of contractor firms are getting stupid with their requirements. Like anyone has ready access to six forms of ID.

[furious]

128. If they're required to have a carry permit,

then yes, but I don't think OR. requires carry permits for open carry.

[riderinthestorm]

34. I know its a cliche but damn, those poor kids!

That has to be scary. I'm scared for them and nobody's stalking my kids' schools with guns.



Whatever his intentions, he's a major shithead on many levels.

[furious]

37. That he is.

[hunter]

39. My mom would just take guns and not give them back.

Seriously. Our family was out hiking once, she saw an idiot kid being irresponsible with a gun and she took it. Never heard such a pathetic crybaby in my life.


"WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" Like pulling the binky out of a two year old's mouth.


People need to confront this clown, videos rolling.


I live in a city where gun carriers are not coddled. You don't carry a gun unless you are a Law Enforcement Officer or you are willing to get shot or mugged. The fact that open carry is illegal here would be the very least of your problems. You'd be lucky if some grizzly mama bear simply took your weapon, not someone who was looking for free guns or mistook you for a gangster.

[Clown is Down]

140. So now you are justifying theft? n/t

[hunter]

233. Yeah. I'll take my chances. Take the guns and turn them into something useful

Art is useful:

I don't think clowns should have guns.

Get a hidden accomplice to point a laser at clown's chest. Confront the clown, point out the red dot, take his guns.

That'll teach 'em.

"Pickpocketing" is a good option for those who don't like to be intimidating...

Hey, where'd my guns go?

Clowns with guns mean to be intimidating. Nothing wrong with being more intimidating.

[whatchamacallit]

44. So how are we supposed to recognize a "good guy with a gun"?

My default assumption would be this dirtbag is a threat to my child. I'd get up in his grill and demand he stand down.

[rl6214]

117. Ok

[etherealtruth]

121. They are all "good guys with guns"

... until the moment they become psycho killers with guns. we are told (by the NRA and their minions) that this is as it should be ... in fact we need more guns ...

[Sunlei]

47. thanks gun nuts/NRA lobby for making a school day terrifying for all Americans!

[etherealtruth]

54. That sums it up n/t

[The Straight Story]

49. I am sure we would all feel better if we could deny someone their rights

until the reason we do so is turned against us.

Can anyone explain what he has done that is against the law and what law you would make to put him in jail if he did it again?

[whatchamacallit]

70. Interesting

Is frightening and intimidating a right? Is being uncomfortable with a random stranger walking around a school, armed to the teeth, an irrational response? How about alarm at finding a lion roaming free on the street?

[The Straight Story]

78. The person is not breaking any laws. What else frightens people that we would like to ban?

Should a person be concerned? Sure, I would be concerned seeing anyone adult wise who didn't belong around a school.

Would folks rather the person hide the gun? Oh wait...we don't want to allow that either. Of course, that won't stop a criminal from doing so. We see cops with guns all the time, and they do bad things with me at a higher percent than gun owners who are not cops.

Again, what law(s) should we now pass to make people feel better?

[whatchamacallit]

86. Like I said in an earlier post

I'd tell this silly teabagger to take his macho wet dream off campus.

[furious]

97. He wasn't on school grounds,

that's one of the reasons the police could take no action against him.

[whatchamacallit]

99. Too close for comfort IMO n/t

[Duckhunter935]

102. how close is too close now

100 feet, 500 feet, 1000 feet. Make a law and get it passed.

[furious]

103. Way too close for comfort,

but until OR. changes their law, there's nothing the police can do to idiots like him.

[Paladin]

112. You're minimizing this guy's actions.

If you had a child attending that nearby school, I don't think you'd be nearly as laid back about this overt act of public intimidation.

[The Straight Story]

118. I get people being concerned over such things, however

He is not breaking a law. What if someone is a hunter and they go out each morning, hunt, and walked that way home from the woods?

No one is harming anyone. If you want the law changed, explain what the law should be and how it would be enforced (and does it make exception for people that work for the government).

Oh, and I home school my daughter, so will the same laws apply to home schools or just certain buildings that are owned by businesses and government?

People call the cops (their right), they go and talk to him (their job), and he goes on about his business. Looks like things are actually working IMHO.

[Paladin]

175. Home schooling? No wonder you're OK with this guy's actions.

If your child was in a class in that nearby school, I wonder just how equable you'd be with this jerk's intimidation routine.

[Fumesucker]

188. How do you know what adults "don't belong" around a school?

[The Straight Story]

197. Oh easy

someone doing or acting like I wouldn't. Own something I don't? Scary, don't belong. Walking funny? Wearing a turban? Read bad things about people like that on the net. Don't belong....

[Pisces]

306. I guess we have to pass laws because common sense can't be used by gun nuts. No guns within

1000 feet of schools, like strip clubs and bars. Sorry, you want to be a moron and terrify parents. Now we have to
take restrictive action. Fucking idiots everywhere.

[Duckhunter935]

311. Go ahead, nothing stopping you

I think open carry is stupid anyway and think it should be outlawed. That would stop idiots like him.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

119. If you're not able to see what's wrong with this man's actions, you're not being honest.

Hell, pot smokers are kept 1000 feet from many schools. Why should this maladjusted freak be able to terrorize a neighborhood?

[furious]

129. Because the law says he can.

Until OR. changes it's open carry law, there's nothing the police can do.

[etherealtruth]

229. At what point are personal actions restricted when they cause a panic ... never?

I would call schools locking down causing a panic... I would also call teachers and students (acknowledging recent history) teachers and students being terrorized by this activity ... causing a public panic.

How is (the metaphor) "Yelling fire" in a crowded theater really any different than this? Both the yelling and the strutting around in the vicinity of the periphery of school property are carried out in order to illicit strong reactions that disrupt the common good and public safety.

The Constitution isn't an absolute ... my rights frequently end when they interfere with your rights. Using the "fire" metaphor ... my right to free speech ends when it undermines public safety.

[furious]

235. I can guarantee that if the police thought they could stop this idiot from parading around

with a gun/rifle/shotgun strapped to himself, they would have, but the law is clear and the police have to follow it.
The way to stop this nonsense is for OR. or the city to pass an ordinance outlawing it and then, arrest anyone who continues to open carry.

[etherealtruth]

237. I actually am not blaming the police

I believe there are other entities that can pursue other actions.

Under no circumstances do I advocate the police taking the 'law" into their own hands. There are other non-police entities that can and should look into the fact that this jack asses actions are, in fact, causing a public panic (again locking schools down and the terror those inside feel rise to the level of public panic).

[Duckhunter935]

239. So who are you talking about

that can "pursue other actions" and what would that be?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

433. Disturbing the peace is not a legal right.

If the guy is needlessly causing panic just to prove a point, he doesn't deserve protection of the law.

[Glassunion]

56. There is a time and a place to be walking around with a shotgun

This guy is an ass.

[IdaBriggs]

63. This asshole is going to get people killed.

"Don't be afraid of the guy with a gun - he is there to shoot game! What game? PEOPLE."

Seriously, make it normal and people die. I hope he kills himself before he kills the kids.

In the meantime, he is setting up that area for inappropriate "oh, it's just that safe guy" when the next lunatic shows up.

I support parental vigilante justice. He is free to be stupid. He is a horrible human being.

[seabeyond]

66. really.... a piece of shit human being that lacks empathy to lost children to such an extent that

he does a stunt like this to get his rocks off.

a piece. of. shit. human. being.

that simple.

and i am the first to stand up for a persons right to own guns.

but, this man, is nothing more than a piece of shit human being.

[HappyMe]

73. Exactly.

Being an asshole to prove a point. He isn't doing gun rights people any favors.

The city should make a new ordinance/law against this kind of thing.

[seabeyond]

77. going after the children, you are right, literally more harm to guns right than

about any stunt i could think of a person doing.

[Ohio Joe]

68. The people in this area should keep calling the police

Not only that but get as many other to keep doing it as well. They should also film this asshole and start putting his face all over youtube and anywhere else they can.

Fuckin gun nuts.

[etherealtruth]

80. Excellent ideas

This is gun nuttery run amok

[rl6214]

120. Excellent idea

Tie up police resources with frivolous or possibly criminal phone calls. Good move.

[Ohio Joe]

167. Yes... Far better to let a loon with a loaded gun hang around a school

Fuckin gun nuts

[furious]

184. Call us enough times about the same thing, same person

Last edited Sun Sep 22, 2013, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

and we won't respond anymore, we're just not going to waste the resources on someone doing something that's presently legal.

Here's how it would go.

Dispatcher: 911, what's your emergency?

Caller: There's a man walking by the school with a gun.

Dispatcher: What kind of gun is this person carrying?

Caller: It looks like a rifle or shotgun.

Dispatcher: How is the person carrying it?

Caller: It's slung across his back.

Dispatcher: Has this person physically threatened anyone with it?

Caller: Not that I've seen.

Dispatcher: Is this the same man that's been seen doing this several times already?

Caller: I don't know for sure.

Dispatcher: Ok, we'll try to get an officer there, until then please don't approach, just observe what he's doing.

If the police determine it's the same guy doing what they've already checked out several times, chances are they're not even going to respond unless the guy starts actually threatening people.

[Ohio Joe]

210. Well... That is not how I would do it...

Here's how it would go.

Dispatcher: 911, what's your emergency?

Caller: There's a man walking by the school with a gun. Click.

I'm not hanging around with a gun nut. The police can respond or not, it still goes on the record.

[furious]

216. And expect to get a call back for more information.

The best way to end this idiot's nonsense is for states to outlaw open carry.

But I would suggest that you don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen any time soon.

[rl6214]

226. You do know they can and do trace those calls?

Doncha?

[Ohio Joe]

246. They can trace my phone till the cows come home

They still won't find me. I've used a Tracphone for many years now, always paid for with cash. I recommend them

[rl6214]

354. Ok 007

[rl6214]

223. You gonna be the one making that call to go to jail?

[Ohio Joe]

247. pffft... go to jail...

Go try and intimidate someone else. There is no law against what I propose.

[etherealtruth]

198. the moron strutting around the periphery of school properties with a gun

... is the one squandering police resources.

Any thinking person seeing a person doing this is well reasoned in calling the police asap!

[csziggy]

208. This nutjob's face is in the video in the OP link

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Carrying-a-gun-around-schools-didnt-work-out-quite-as-man-hoped-224634911.html?tab=video&c=y

In addition to calling the police, if I were a parent with a child in that school district I would call and report him to his mother every time he strolls around schools armed. According to his interview, his mother is a teacher at one of those schools. I'm sure she needs to know when her son is off his leash.

[Ohio Joe]

212. Yeah... I'd also be putting in regular complaints with the school board

Actually... That can easily be done with anonymous email... Gotta go send some emails

[Lizzie Poppet]

218. The school board has no authority over the guy.

The guy's not entering school property, and could tell the school board to go piss up a rope. The City Council, on the other hand, can be presented with requests to adopt a no-open-carry law.

[surrealAmerican]

75. I wonder if the police would be responding the same way ...

... if this wasn't a white person.

[raccoon]

282. +1000. nt

[Scuba]

82. Maybe someone will report that he criticized the XL Pipeline.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130617/NEWS/130619686/1685#company-terror-laws-may-apply-to-keystone-xl-pipeline-foes

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. So forcing a lockdown and preventing kids from having recess is okay?

Gun defenders don't think this nonsense through.

[etherealtruth]

89. I liken it to shouting "fire" in a crowd

Your rights "end" when they infringe on the rights of others.

"Gun defenders don't think this nonsense through." I believe they simply don't care

[sarisataka]

85. He would fall for this:

[Lars39]

88. It would be a risk, but I think there should be a crowd there lining sidewalk and heckling him.

Scripted comments, though. Shame him.

[etherealtruth]

122. Sadly, it would be a risk

it would seem nuts with guns are very easily "offended"

[Catherine Vincent]

92. No one knows his name

But we know he's a conservative republican.

[ileus]

94. Best guess is all of you have this WRONG....

look at the POS shotgun he's carrying, a single shot 150 dollar gun from Wal-turd. No real gun nut would be caught in public with that fudd gun.

My guess is he's a 2A regressive trying to get open carry laws changed, or he's just hoping to get some abuse so he can hit the lawsuit lottery.


Doesn't really matter it's a pretty dumbassed thing to do, it only serves to piss people off and further tarnish firearm freedoms. Of course that may be exactly what he hopes to accomplish.


It's not really open carry for self defense if It's chained to your backpack in a position where you can't access it quick enough to respond in an event. It's open carry to be a dick.

[gulliver]

147. It could be a false flag operation.

If so, it would be a lot more effective if the guy weren't white.

We don't need this kind of thing to be legal. The guy is making that point, regardless of which side of the argument he is actually on.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

434. No True Scotsman. nt

[Blue_Tires]

456. Maybe it's all he can afford?

Or maybe he's just batshit insane??

[Lancero]

109. Take a vote people...

In cases like this, would you support some police brutality?

[etherealtruth]

111. No, in cases like this I advocate legislative intelligence

... something that has been lacking regarding gunz for a long time

[Lancero]

114. Thats...

Implying that gun nuts can think.

[furious]

113. NO!!!!!!!!!

And speaking as a cop, that's highly offensive.
Police brutality, no matter what, is unacceptable, period.

[Lizzie Poppet]

116. Absolutely not.

I don't support police brutality even in cases of people who have actually harmed others, and not just acted like a dick. Nation of laws, and all that...

[rl6214]

123. Nope

[Democracyinkind]

110. It's lame and stale to point out, but only white people get to pull this off.

Or convince me that this guy wouldn't be off the streets if he weren't white. I know this is a whole other issue than scaring kids with guns, but.... Isn't it odd that "we can't do anything in this case" yet millions of people in this country are stopped and frisked for normal behavior while these assholes get to parade the streets with their guns without being harassed?

[Paladin]

150. +1000. (nt)

[hack89]

124. Moron. nt

[RC]

126. I bet it the guy was Black, there would be a different police response.

And they would not only not let him refuse to give his name, but suddenly find dozens of law he broke just for breathing while Black.

[99th_Monkey]

166. EXACTLY!! Or.. if he was an A-Rab. <-- There'd be a Swat Team to take him out w/in 10 minutes. nt

[TeamPooka]

130. Possible stalking equals probable cause for a search and ID check officers.

[furious]

137. Stalking who?

Unless there is a complainant, then there's no probable cause for an ID check or a search.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

142. Are you saying you don't run people's info when you get ...

....a suspicious person call around a grade school?


I think the cops aren't seeing the forest through the trees. Is this guy a Chris Hanson customer?

[TeamPooka]

143. a potential victim or victims at the school since they called. If there were any creepy guy hanging

out that was a potential molester would they ID him?
What's the difference if you're hanging out and being creepy with a gun?

[furious]

154. If he were hanging out,

then that would be a suspious person call, but he's not hanging out, he's walking by the school.
The cops have already talked to him and determined that, according to OR. law, he's not doing anything illegal, so they can't demand to see his ID, they can ask, but he can, and did, refuse.
At that point, police were forced to send him on his way.
OR. needs to change it's open carry law and make what this idiot is doing illegal.

[madrchsod]

131. now if that guy was a different color.......

[Hassin Bin Sober]

132. The guy is probably a kiddie diddling pedophile.

If I saw some creep hanging around grade schools I would call the police. The police would investigate him and run him for kiddie diddling priors. I don't understand why his gun(s) shield him from investigation for hanging around schools he (apparently) has no other legitimate reason to hang around.

[furious]

146. He's not actually hanging around the schools,

he's walking by them.
I sure the police have tried to think of anything they can legally do to stop this activity, but until OR. changes it's open carry laws, there's nothing they can do.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

149. Once is a walk-by. But five times? No. They need to check his records.

[furious]

157. They can't legally check his record as he's done nothing illegal,

they can't even demand ID from him.
As I said, get the OR. Legislature to outlaw open carry and it would put a stop to this idiot's nonsense.

[Orrex]

135. If he were black, he'd have been shot dead for resisting arrest

Instead, he's lucky that he has rights that get protection.

[Pisces]

308. You are absolutely correct. He would have been shot and questions asked later. Black man rights

be damned.

[Blue_Tires]

457. And some usual suspects here would say with a straight face that he had it coming...

[alfredo]

144. That must have been scary and intimidating to the kids and teachers.

[Logical]

153. The guy is an idiot, but he sure has the right to do it if you wants to. nt

[MineralMan]

161. Just as I'd have the right to follow along behind him on the same street.

That's what I'd do if someone pulled this shit in my neighborhood. And, I'd try to enlist others to do the same. He'd find somewhere else to walk before long. Nothing like someone following you to create a sense of, well, someone following you around. Very effective.

[gulliver]

156. There are obscenity and threat exceptions to the 1st Amendment, right?

So...

[sl8]

163. How is this not a violation of the revised Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990?

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

[oldhippie]

401. If you read the law, there are a number of exemptions .....

... that may apply. It wouldn't apply to me.

[Politicalboi]

171. But they have to protect the man's rights, too.

Fuck him and his gun loving rights. We need a clarification of the 2nd Amendment that says NO GUNS IN PUBLIC. Fuck these scared assholes and their "rights". If I was the kid of that asshole, I would be embarrassed.

[Duckhunter935]

187. So now I can not

take my weapon to the range. Take my weapon to a gunsmith to get a dangerous weapon repaired. Take my weapon to the police station to turn it in for destruction. NO GUNS IN PUBLIC is pretty definitive. By your reasoning I could not even take a weapon home after purchasing and getting my background check done by an FFL.

[Hekate]

172. ?? Nothing can be done until he walks into the school and slaughters all the little kids ??

At which point there will be the usual handwringing media circus, plus "responsible" gun owners yammering about how the government shouldn't pass any laws over the still-warm bodies of teachers and children.

I can hear it now: Oh, why didn't someone do something? What warning signs were missed?

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WARNING SIGNS WERE MISSED: Someone walking around outside an elementary school with a hunting rifle terrifying people.

Christ on a trailer hitch. There is a streak of madness that runs very deep in this country.

[Lizzie Poppet]

189. The law can be changed.

This is taking place in Hillsboro, which is in Washington County, Oregon. Two other towns in that county (which is part of the greater Portland area) have laws against open carry, and state law specifically doesn't trump local law on that particular matter (open carry, that is). If the people of Hillsboro want this to change, they can certainly let the city council know.

[malaise]

174. But but but

no guns at the NRA meeting.

[SCUBANOW]

342. There were lots of guns at the NRA meeting.

Lots of people were carrying, they just kept their mouths shut.

[AlbertCat]

177. If enough people in the neighborhood call and complain....

.... can't he become a public nuisance? Loitering?

[furious]

220. No, because this idiot isn't doing anything illegal.

Some localities in different states tried exactly that and for the most part, judges dismissed the charges and state legislature's specifically forbid this practice.

[rdharma]

179. ALWAYS CALL 911 WHEN YOU SEE SOME JACKASS PARADING AROUND WITH A GUN IN PUBLIC!

And no ....... you won't be considered a "nuisance caller" by calling law enforcement. Law enforcement already knows who the REAL NUISANCE is!

[Lizzie Poppet]

183. Because wasting cops' time is such a great idea!

Worst. Advice. Ever.

Unless open carry is illegal in your jurisdiction, calling 911 on someone doing so is an incredibly fuckwitted thing to do.

[Duckhunter935]

190. They dont care

unless they need a police officer and they will not show up because another person is lying to the police and wasting resources.

[madinmaryland]

252. How so?? I would consider the person to be a drug-crazed lunatic carrying a gun, and that is what I

would explain to the police. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

[Blue_Tires]

448. uh...Zimmerman called 911 just because someone didn't "belong" in his neighborhood...

and I've seen scant criticism on DU for it, since his call was supposedly "in good faith"

[etherealtruth]

203. Agreed

Any well reasoned individual seeing someone strutting around the periphery of school properties with a gun should 9and hopefully will) call the authorities ASAP.

It is the jackass parading around that is wasting law enforcement resources ... not the people he is trying to intimidate

[furious]

222. Yes, it would be considered a nuisance call after so many times.

After a while, we wouldn't even respond anymore.

[rdharma]

270. Who's we?

Huh?

[furious]

271. The police.

[rdharma]

274. Oh, the police have discretion not to respond when dispatched?

Riiiight!!!

[furious]

276. Depends if the dispatcher sends the call on.

After a while, they would recognize the callers voice and decide whether or not to dispatch a car to check it out, especially if it's the same call over and over in the same area.

[rdharma]

281. You know very little about law enforcement.

No dispatcher is going to risk not dispatching to an "armed menacing" call.

On the bright side. It's morons (like this menacing moron) who will help get the sensible gun laws we need....... enacted.

[furious]

291. Oh, ok, I know very little about law enforcement.

[rdharma]

297. Glad you admit it.

If you saw the video, you'll note that law enforcement will respond to check this guy out...... every time called.

So much for your... "we'll ignore the call" claim.

And you think a dispatcher will use his/her gut feeling to risk not sending an officer to a call of a suspicious "armed individual"? Really? You must never have been in law enforcement.

And who do you think the guys on the street hate? The reporting party........ or the a-hole brandishing his gun in public and causing the panic?

[Duckhunter935]

301. It would be very low priority

and he was not brandishing, that would be against the law.

[rdharma]

318. His intention was to intimidate.

If the local PD didn't respond promptly, next call I'd make would be to the county........ followed by a call to the state AG.

[furious]

303. He's no doubt an asshole,

but he's not brandishing in the legal sense.
And I am speaking from many moons of experience, whether or not you think so.

[rdharma]

319. What's the definition of "menacing" in your "many moons of experience"?

Well? Tell me the state and I'll find the statute for you.

[furious]

322. You need to look up the statute of the state this idiot did this in,

not my state, but here's a broad definition.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/m/menacing/

If the cops thought that they could hook him for menacing, they would have done so, the fact that they didn't says that he didn't meet their legal definition of menacing.

[rdharma]

339. Already looked it up for OR

§ 163.190¹

Menacing

(1) A person commits the crime of menacing if by word or conduct the person (INTENTIONALLY) attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious physical injury.

(2) Menacing is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §95]

Intent is an element of the crime that must be proved. That's why the cops are shying away from charging this fugger!

This isn't my first time in the rodeo, my friend.

[furious]

340. Very good.

You've earned an A+.

[rdharma]

344. How can the student award the teacher a grade?

[furious]

345. Student?

That's funny.

Thanks for the chuckle.

[rdharma]

348. A very poor student at that!

Stick around.......I care very much for my "slow students".

[furious]

350. Ok.

[oldhippie]

402. I've had the same poster tell me I knew little ....

.... about guns.

[rl6214]

356. He's a cop so yeah, he knows very little about law enforcement

[rdharma]

375. Yup! And I 'm Elvis Presley!

Thank you very much!

[furious]

377. How's death treating you Elvis?

[rdharma]

392. As you can see I'm not dead,

And you're not a cop.

[furious]

398. Funny thing is, I can't see you.

And about my not being a cop, ok.

[rdharma]

399. I know it's OK n/t

[furious]

400. You believed I was serious?

I think we're done here, bye bye now.

[LanternWaste]

403. Dramatic powers of prophecy we often pretend to posses...

Dramatic powers of prophecy we often pretend to posses...

[rdharma]

418. Yes! Call 'em "Spidey senses"

[rl6214]

408. Ok keyboard commando, if your mom lets you

[HangOnKids]

409. furious just got banned ....AGAIN

You owe some posters an apology. Just sayin'.

[rl6214]

415. Again?

[HangOnKids]

416. That's What Skinner Said

Here is the PPR:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=307899&sub=trans

[rl6214]

417. I don't see why the great desire to continuously try to sneak in

[rdharma]

420. Yup! I'm sure you don't..........

[rl6214]

421. Meaning what?

If you are trying to imply something, I'm on my first life here since 2003 I think.

You wanna say exactly what you are trying to say or won't your mom let you? Run along and ask her.

[rdharma]

419. Ask furious if his mom lets him.

[rdharma]

422. Do you still think "furious" is a cop?

[rl6214]

465. Nothing to prove otherwise

Just because he was banned doesn't mean he's not a cop

[rdharma]

466. I'll bet he thanks you for your support! nt

[etherealtruth]

273. In light of the school shootings in recent history

It is unfortunate that a police department would consider NOT responding to someone strutting around the periphery of school properties with firearms.

The problem here is the guy with the gun (acting in a way to cause fear, panic ...) .... he acted with no purpose other than to get this reaction. The problem is NOT citizens reporting his intentional behavior.

i would think that any respectable law enforcement officer would be ashamed to say "we wouldn't even respond anymore" to reports of a man strutting around in the vicinity of school with a gun . If recent events have taught us anything, I would hope it would be that nuts with guns do horrendous things.

They are all good guys with guns ... until they are not.

[furious]

278. That's what these open carry idiots want,

the police to react each and every time hoping for a bad reaction from the police for a possible lawsuit.
After so many calls, the dispatcher would recognize it for what it is.

The best course of action is to just abolish open carry and this nonsense would cease.

[etherealtruth]

288. I agree the overall answer is legislative

...but, if I see an idiot around a school with a gun i am calling the police and my expectation is that they will respond.

I would hate to be the dispatcher or law enforcement officer that failed to respond to complaints about guns in close proximity to a school ... and their decision not to act allowed a tragedy to occur.

[meanit]

292. So in other words

the police are scared of the NRA.

If this guy where parading a meat cleaver up and down the street, past schools, I've got a hunch that law enforcement might want to have a word with him, whether it is legal to brandish a meat cleaver or not.

[furious]

294. Police budgets are being cut every day,

it's not fear of the NRA, it's the fact that if a department is sued, and loses, the city/county insurance will pay the judgement, but guess who's budget is going to be affected?

The police already talked to this idiot, but because of open carry being legal, they're hands are tied.

Until the laws on open carry are changed, we're pretty much screwed as to what we can do.

[meanit]

298. The NRA would love to jump on something like this

with both feet. They would be the ones footing the bill for the lawyers for the suit. The police do not want the NRA all over their asses, IMO.

[furious]

309. Not the NRA per se,

we don't like being sued by a citizen for harassing him for what is perfectly legal at this time.

Understand, I don't condone or approve of what this idiot is doing, it diverts scarce resources from where they're needed, it scares the school children and parents, but until the open carry laws are abolished, there's really nothing we can do.

I would suggest for anyone seeing one of these idiots, remember, just a suggestion, (hint, wink, smile) to follow them at a safe distance and record them wherever they go, sooner or later, they'll get tired of being followed and either do something stupid that the police can act on, or, they'll just go away.

And lobby state politicians to change open carry laws.

[meanit]

321. Perhaps the NRA does not influence directly,

but I doubt your sheriff is naïve enough to discount their clout. As far as open carry goes, that always seemed to be for hunters and people transporting a firearm from one place to another. Didn't seem to be a problem until the extremists have now made it one.
The NRA is it's own worst enemy.

[pansypoo53219]

186. disturbing the PEACE.

[Duckhunter935]

194. How

By exercising his 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Do not agree with the idiot but it does become a slippery slope. See Occupy, they should have been allowed to also exercise their rights.

[furious]

224. Not in the legal sense.

Several localities in different states tried that with the open carriers, for the most part, judges dismiss the charges and state legislatures specifically wrote definitions to DTP laws forbidding this practice.

[Initech]

213. Part of me really wants these asshole's guns taken away now.

[Shankapotomus]

214. Why would a gun rights advocate

want to scare little children? How does this help his cause? Just absolutely disgusting.

[furious]

227. It doesn't help his cause at all.

And I'm betting that the majority of gun owners think this idiot is an asshole for doing this.

[Clown is Down]

243. It pains me to say it...

But it might be a pro-gun control member trying to drum up bad publicity for the other side.
Like neo-con plants that pretended to be OWS members to make that movement look bad.
The end justifies the means sort of thinking.

[furious]

245. I guess anythings possible,

but I would have to see definitive proof before I would believe it.

[LanternWaste]

404. There are more than many instances of pro-gun idiots doing this very thing already

There are more than many instances of pro-gun idiots doing this very thing already. There's no reason for me to believe that simply one more instance is a predicated and nefarious counter-branding done by someone not already on their team of misfits who believe in neither ends nor thinking...

[on point]

236. Keep calling the police to respond to these nut cases until they too push for laws

[Duckhunter935]

240. They just will not respond

and call enough times and they will pay YOU the visit.

[meanit]

285. Maybe

somebody who feels threatened by this ass will come out and "stand their ground" with him. That would be ironic, huh?

[Duckhunter935]

287. No, it would be murder

For all you know that weapon is not loaded. He is not brandishing or threatening. Why don't you try it, you seem pretty bold behind that keyboard.

[meanit]

295. Come walk around my neighborhood school with your guns, tough guy.

Your pretty big and bold behind your fucking keyboard too, pal.

[Duckhunter935]

305. I do not do

idiotic things like this twit. I very rarely carry and it is always concealed. You would never know.

[on point]

299. Actually he IS BRANDISHING!! There is no way to know it is unloaded or he is about to massacre

everyone around him.

If it quacks like a duck n all, it is a duck.

This open carry law is madness and needs to go away.

[furious]

315. No, it's not, if it were a handgun, then yes,

but a long gun, no, the way he's carrying it is not the legal definition of brandishing.

[meanit]

316. Yes,

of course it is brandishing. The NRA supporters would like us all to think that it's akin to walking his dog.

[Duckhunter935]

323. No he is not

He is carrying it as any long gun is transported. Weapon slung over back with barrel in the up or down position in a safe direction. Brandishing a long gun would have it in his hands. Hand guns holstered. That is part of weapons training and brandishing will have you go to jail.

[meanit]

326. Ah yes,

the fine points of the law. For gunners rights, anyway.
Question: If a liberal shot up an NRA meeting in your town, and then a while later an openly armed liberal was walking up and down your street, past your house with clearly no destination in mind, would you feel uneasy at all?

[Duckhunter935]

327. Was anything shot up in that town?

If it was, then I may answer your question.

And the finer points of the law should apply to all, occupy, protesters in Wisconsin.

[meanit]

335. What?

No, nothing was shot up in that town that I know of. What's that got to do with my hypothetical question?

[Duckhunter935]

338. Since you tied it to the

discussion about this idiot and open carry. I do not accept your scenario.

To more closely match it...

If I saw a person with a shotgun slung over his shoulder in a non-threatening manor and no shootings have been reported I would keep an eye on the individual and report if the person does something illegal. But I know he has the right to be an idiot and try and draw attention to himself and I will not do that for him.

[meanit]

346. Well,

I suppose if you live in a rural area where a lot of hunting goes on, that type of behavior may not be out of the ordinary.
But this is happening in an urban setting with several public schools in the area, so I think many find your scenario unacceptable as well.

[meanit]

341. Of course you would be concerned if someone was doing that to you.

People are concerned about a man with a lot of firepower walking up and down the street past schools after something like Sandy Hook happened. If they are wrong to feel that way, poor little GI Joe goes home with a bruised ego. If they are right, they get to go identify their children's bullet ridden bodies.

[Duckhunter935]

343. Thanks for telling me how to think

and react. Please do not put your words in my mouth.

[meanit]

347. You dodged the question I asked. Your still throwing out diversions

You won't admit to how you would react to being intimidated the way this gun nut is trying to intimidate other people. Standard NRA m.o. I'm so surprised

There may not be a law against what this guy is doing, but he has no right to do it.

[furious]

353. "There may not be a law against what this guy is doing, but he has no right to do it?

Huh?
If and until the law is changed, he does have the right to do what he's doing, however stupid it is.

[meanit]

357. Morally.

He can get away with it. But that's all.

[furious]

360. Morally?

If he had any morals, he would chose to not be such a dick, legally, he does have the right to be such a dick.

[meanit]

366. Well yes, morally.

It's a shitty thing to do around schools, don't you think? There are lot's things that people have the legal right to be a dick about. But that doesn't mean that they have the "moral right" to do it. Common decency and all that.

[furious]

368. I think we understand each other.

I agree with with your comment 100%.

[meanit]

300. On second thought

nah, I could only shoot him if he was a school kid with Skittles. Then the NRA would rush to my defense.

[TorchTheWitch]

284. the police don't make the laws nor do they push for them

They enforce the laws whether they like them or not. And making nuisance calls to the police only keeps them from responding to other problems and emergencies.

Call the local Reps. Every single one of them over and over again until their ears burn and they can't get an open line to order lunch. Picket their offices. Do the same thing to the Mayor, Governor and any other local government entity that DOES have something to do with making or changing laws. Get a petition going. Hell, get several going. Write a gazillion LTTE of every media in the area. Enlist everyone you can to badger the people that actually DO deal with law making in the area. It's the government one is supposed to petition for redress... the police can't do anything whether they want to or not, and it isn't their job. It's the job of the citizenry to petition the GOVERNMENT concerning enacting laws that they want.

[Gormy Cuss]

241. Sex offenders can't live near schools, but bozos like this one can terrorize them.

That IS what this jerk is doing by walking around schools in that get-up.

[gopiscrap]

242. that needs to be changed

[Tikki]

244. Humans...this is the man your parents warned you about...he's f***in' nuts...

Tikki

[Starry Messenger]

256. Schools in CA are gun free zones up to 1000 ft.

http://www.shouselaw.com/gun-free-school.html

I thought most states would have such a law. Looks like this man will probably be the reason Oregon gets one.

[furious]

261. They tried that in the state I live in and out state supreme court threw it out on grounds

of it being to vague, the way is was written, not even home owners living within 1000' could have a firearm in their home.
Since then, there's been no desire to try and pass a revised law.

The best thing OR can do is just rescind their open carry law and put an end to this stupid nonsense.

[Duckhunter935]

330. TRAP laws

do not agree with them. Try to make the whole city a gun free zone. Bad enough when the other side does it over abortion clinics

[Starry Messenger]

378. If you read the link I posted, you'll see that the law is written to avoid stupid shit like that.

[furious]

379. I did read it, and that's why our State Supreme Court nullified the law.

It wouldn't break my heart if our Legislature took another crack at a revised version of the law.

[HockeyMom]

259. Private citizens need to confront these morons

As a public school employee, would I? Yes, I would. We non-gunners have just as many rights as YOU DO. If you are breaking the laws, then you need to hear about it. Go ahead, make MY day, and shoot me for telling you this. Guess who is going to go to jail? You or unarmed me on school grounds?

SICK and TIRED of these 2nd Amendment jerks, and THEIR rights.

[furious]

263. First thing, he wasn't on school property,

second thing, he wasn't breaking any law so the police were powerless to do anything.

OR. just needs to outlaw open carry and this nonsense would stop.

[rl6214]

358. Don't confuse her with facts

[Duckhunter935]

272. So, what laws was he

breaking? Please inform me and the on scene police officers.

[etherealtruth]

275. Are you saying 'regular" folk have no reason to confront aberrant behavior?

...Or are you saying that strutting around the periphery of school property "simply 'cuz' you can" isn't aberrant?

Normal well adjusted folk do not engage in behaviors that in effect terrorize a school (you may not consider behavior causing the lock down of a school and its effect on the staff and students as terrorizing, but most folk do)

Not only does the community and its individual members have a right to confront this, they have a responsibility.

[Duckhunter935]

362. The guy is an idiot

Did not break any laws. I think we should get rid of open carry, but until then he can do it even if I think it is wrong headed.

[LittleBlue]

260. Nothing you can do, really. He doesn't appear dangerous

aside from actually carrying guns. Then again, you've probably walked by a few people today who conceal their guns, which to me is worse. At least he knows that his picture is well known, so he knows he won't get away with brandishing the guns at people.

[Hoyt]

266. If there were truly responsible gun owners, they would encourage him to stop. But. . . . .

[furious]

267. Screw that.

Just lobby the OR. Legislature to outlaw the open carrying of firearms and put a stop to this idiot's nonsense.

[Hoyt]

268. I'd like to see a few reasonable gun toters before I die.

But I ain't holding my breath.

[furious]

269. They're out there, they just don't flaunt it by doing stupid things like

open carrying guns by a school, or open carry at all.

[The Straight Story]

277. Why would they bother to?

"Hey, some guy on the net is upset because you are exercising your rights, albeit in a kind of dumb way"

"Oh, well in that case, I will stop. Guessing then folks will stop trying to take my guns, adding more and more laws to make themselves feel all better, and stop treating all gun owners like they are crazy maniacs."

"nope, now this here feller believes that if we don't all a come down on you then their ain't a decent gun owner out there (except those who work for the government, them's all good folk and only folks like cheyney should be allowed to own guns) - so he done gonna tar and feather fifty million folks if we all don't act at the same time on this"

"but merle, we all act good every day and don't up and hurt no one any hows!"

"I know son, but some of them fellers out there only understand bias and bigotry when it is something or someone they like, they just up and hate us cause someone wronged them or someone they know so we all have to be blamed"

[CreekDog]

289. walking around a school with exposed guns is just "exercising your rights" to you?

that's so f-cked up, it's worse than almost anything you've posted here.

[bettyellen]

423. bigotry has NOTHING to do with judging someone for their BEHAVIOR, for fucks sake.

complete nonsense.

[The Straight Story]

424. Well, being a muslim, jew, etc are all behaviors

So you are telling me people cannot be bigoted against them?

Wow, learn something new each day.

[CreekDog]

452. No, those aren't behaviors

posting RW talking points on a liberal board, however, that is a behavior.

[The Straight Story]

460. So people don't choose their religion? Hunh

Weird. I thought they did. Just like other choices, like own a gun, smoke, have sex, etc.

[CreekDog]

463. Let's explain what you're doing here (since the usual reason "supporting liberal politics" isn't it)

1) The Straight Story compared carrying a gun to some other thing

2) The Straight Story then says that we are trying to ban guns (we aren't, but...) and since we are banning guns (we aren't, but...) then obviously we have to ban (we aren't, but...) ______ activity since that is just like owning, carrying, brandishing a gun.

3) Repeat steps 1 and 2

*optional: pretend to care about anything most people here care about.

[The Straight Story]

464. Simply comparing principles

And was not talking about banning guns but how we view people who own them - spreading fear, focusing only on negative stories, pushing a stereotype.

We don't like when those things are done to other groups but use the same tactics anyway to try to get folks to shame/dislike people we don't agree with on an issue.

And btw, when the rw adds new laws on abortion the first thing we say is 'sure, small law now, but closer to banning' say the same with guns and people get defensive.

Have a debate on issues, that is one thing. Trying to color an entire group based on the few is another.

[rl6214]

359. Like you, responsible gun owner?

[Duckhunter935]

364. I know more tha a few here

and I do not think any has praised this guy.

[CreekDog]

455. sure someone has praised him, one regular poster, though not a liberal one

said he was exercising his rights!

[Rex]

279. Since when does 'he hasn't broken any laws' stopped the cops?

Trying to catch some non-violent drug offenders? Cops always find a reason to search their car.

Guess guns get treated special.

[Blue_Tires]

458. +10000

I have NO idea what planet some of these posters are living on...

[benld74]

280. Illegal and actionable to sell drugs within certain number of feet of a school.

[Squinch]

290. Another responsible gun owner, educating the American public about what gun

owners are really all about.

Here is what we are learning: they are monstrously selfish, bullying, cowardly, sick, violently insensitive, and mentally and emotionally stunted.

What a dipshit. Him, and all the other "open carry freedom fighter" imbeciles.

[meanit]

349. Well said

These guys just screw themselves deeper and deeper, and then squeal about "their rights" and how the Democrats want to take their guns.

It's nuts.

[Pisces]

296. I wonder if he was black if these rules would still apply. I am sure he would be dead and no

one would care about his rights. THis is bullshit.

[mainer]

304. How do you determine he's a legal gun owner if you can't ask for ID?

Cops can ask for car registration, but not gun papers?

Maybe the guns are illegal. Maybe he has a psych history. Maybe his wife has a protection order against him and she works in the school. But oh no cops can't even ask his name.

[meanit]

324. But, but

ID's are not needed while exercising a constitutional right, like voting and....er ....um, oh forget it.

[Duckhunter935]

329. I agree with you on that

Tends to happen when the R's set the rules. I just hope the courts are reasonable.

[hack89]

334. Ever hear of probable cause?

he is not breaking any laws therefore the police can't ask for ID.

[JonLP24]

413. Cops need PC before they can stop you then ask for registration

If open-carry is legal they can't do it. Even for a terry stop police need "to have reasonable suspicion that would justify a stop, police must be able to point to “specific and articulable facts” that would indicate to a reasonable person that a crime has been, is being, or is about to be committed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

That isn't the case here.

[rdharma]

312. Gun Huggers employing the tactics of the Westborough Baptist Church!

And wonder why they aren't feeling love and respect for "their rights"!

[mainer]

320. Does anyone know his name? Post it with photo and caption "small penis."

There needs to be a "small penis" website to expose these guys to ridicule.

[rl6214]

361. Wow did it really take 320 posts for this?

[Decaffeinated]

396. Especially if you want to be taken seriously...

Nothing makes others treat you as an intellectual and a scholar like a joke about genitalia...

[mainer]

406. and there's nothing like ridicule to point out idiocy

He's within his rights. So is a woman who wears a lampshade on her head. Both open themselves to being pointed at and laughed at.

[Recursion]

332. I heard a million times last month that trading liberty for security is a bad idea

Is that no longer true?

[Duckhunter935]

333. only when it is convenient

[meanit]

351. Liberty?

To march past schools heavily armed? What is that proving? There is absolutely no need for him to do this other than to intimidate and create a problem.

[Recursion]

352. So, if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind giving up that right?

Understood.

[meanit]

363. What?

Who is talking about giving up rights? Try common decency.
What's the next stop on this guy's list? A daycare? A convent? How about a hospital? No law against that is there? It's his right, you know!

Unbelievable.

[furious]

365. As long as he stays out of restricted places, there's nothing the police can legally do.

It sucks ass, but it's the law, no matter what we may think of it.

[Duckhunter935]

367. "common decency"

is not the law until changed. There are some out there that do not have any of that.

[furious]

355. Carrying a single shot shotgun, while extremely stupid,

is not heavily armed, this is heavily armed.



You ought to see the weapons we carry on our S.T.A.R.T. team.

[meanit]

369. A shotgun

and a sidearm I believe the article said.
Heavy enough for the unarmed.

[furious]

370. I thought I might have missed it,

Last edited Mon Sep 23, 2013, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)

but upon re-reading the article, it mentions only a shotgun.

HILLSBORO, Ore. – Police say a man with a shotgun outside RA Brown Middle School Thursday afternoon was making a statement and not breaking any laws.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Police-Man-with-gun-outside-Hillsboro-middle-school-no-threat-224502991.html?tab=video&c=y

Someone attempting a mass casuality incident with a single shot shotgun would be taken down PDQ.

He's harmless, a stupid asshole granted, but harmless.

On edit: the headline does say sidearm, but the meat of the story doesn't say anything about a sidearm.
What to believe?

[pitbullgirl1965]

371. Why is the LEO above so heavily armed?

Was this for Occupy? A stand off? He doesn't look like LE, he looks like military. Our rural sheriff department just received a toy courtesy of the DODP

Published on September 17, 2013, Page A6, Watertown Daily Times

PLAY NICE SHERIFF BURNS SHOULD TRADE HIS MILITARY TRUCK FOR PRACTICAL
ITEMS

If there's any truth to the adage "The difference between the men and the boys is the size of their toys," Jefferson County Sheriff John P. Burns won't be mistaken for a kid anytime soon.
His department recently acquired an imposing military vehicle. If sheriff's deputies arrive on the scene inside this, you'll know they mean business.
The Jefferson County Sheriff's Department obtained a 2008 International MaxxPro Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle from the U.S. Department of Defense ( I didn't want to purchase the rest of the article sorry)

Jefferson County main industry is dairy farming, with the army base Fort Drum on the northern edge.
Hardly a bastion of stand offs and riots, so why does he need it?

[furious]

373. Nope, he's a cop and I have no idea if he was involved in the policing of the Occupy Movement.

This whole militarization of the nations police forces started during the 1st Bush years and has gotten worse since, through Repub and Dem administrations through grant programs from the military.

Mind you, I am in fierce opposition to it, but I'm just a small voice in the wilderness.

Our former Sheriff busted our budget buying an APC from the National Guard for use for our S.T.A.R.T. team, total waste of money, luckily, the citizens of my county elected a very progressive Sheriff who scrapped the APC program and sold it, he reverted us back to the traditional tan uniforms and metal shields instead of the military style uniforms and sew on cloth shields.
It's had a great impact on our citizens and deputies alike, we feel better about ourselves and we've regained, for the most part, the trust of the citizens we're sworn to protect.

[pitbullgirl1965]

382. It's good to hear you're against it.

Mind you, I am in fierce opposition to it, but I'm just a small voice in the wilderness.
And the citizens in your area are fortunate to have peace officers serving them, not police officers.

[furious]

383. I humbly thank you.

Also, we are required to attend, twice a year, civil rights courses and sexual harassment/assault courses, and our Sheriff invites the public to attend these courses.
He won't tolerate any proven civil rights abuses against our citizens and will refer any serious complaints to the States Attorney General's office for investigation, his theory being that our IAD should not be investigating serious, credible allegations against his deputies, which is another policy change I welcomed.

I consider myself lucky that I now work for a very conscientious man and the citizens show their appreciation by re-electing him regularly in large margins.

[pitbullgirl1965]

385. that is awesome

We need more LE agencies like that.

[DirkGently]

374. Nor could they stop a group of Concerned Citizens

following him around with their own guns, then.

And there's the problem with the notion of "normalizing" people walking around displaying weaponry. In order to feel "secure," others will feel the need to follow, until one day we are all standing in line at the Deli counter wearing Kevlar crotch armor with our high-capacity "hunting rifles" at the ready, twitching and trying to get a meatball sub without taking our eyes off of anyone.

Not a recipe for a great society, but it would be FANTASTIC for gun sales, which is of course the point.

[furious]

376. Ahhh, at last,

someone who gets it. Bravo and a big salute to you sir.

[Paladin]

395. Bullseye.

You just did a nice job of depicting the Gun Enthusiasts' image of the way this country ought to be---Law of the Jungle, 24/7.

[pitbullgirl1965]

381. Another idiotic white suburbanite

It's not a toy to parade around with, you look like a wanna be commando who's watched too many movies. Yes, it's legal, but it's a dick move. If you feel the need to parade around like a sentry, you shouldn't own firearms. And no I don't hate the Second Amendment, but it boggles my mind that the First Amendment has limits (we can't yell fire in a theater) but how much leeway the Second Amendment is given. The NRA and its' fanboys claim they're victims of Second Amendment violations, and meanwhile our Fourth Amendment rights have been eroding to the point where it's just pretty words. A piece of paper like that pos President Bush Jr. said.
Oh and I cannot imagine the police would have been as blasé if this had been a dark skinned person.

[cui bono]

384. How can anyone defend this assholyness?

It's one thing to be for responsible gun ownership, but this guy is just being a dick and causing discomfort in his community.

[IronLionZion]

393. Happens more often than you think

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57451749/gun-advocates-protest-mich-teens-arrest-for-carrying-non-concealed-m-1-rifle/

These people do it for the same reason any sort of activist does, including breastfeeding moms and occupy wall street protestors.

[SomethingFishy]

410. With the small exception that his rights ARE FIRMLY IN PLACE

As proven by the fact that he is parading in front of a school with weapons.

Breastfeeding women and Occupy are protesting actual injustices, while this guy thinks his gun rights are being violated as he walks around with a shotgun and two pistols

[IronLionZion]

411. In his mind, he is protesting actual injustice

its a different perspective than yours and mine. Many of our counterparts on the other side believe they are living in marxist dictatorship where all sorts of liberal punishment is being forced upon them. It doesn't have to be true. It's true in their minds. Time ran a story on the rise of militias armed to the teeth preparing for if and when the islamic socialists take over our country.

[SomethingFishy]

414. Don't they have pills for that or something?

[LanternWaste]

397. he's merely an idiot who wants to be stopped so he may then complain about his right being violated.

My guess is that he's merely an idiot who wants to be stopped so he may then complain about his right being violated.

And, if his plan doesn't happen sooner rather than later, well... I'm sure he'll be happy getting attention he craves some other way. Much like James Holmes did.

[Phlem]

407. But pot smokers go straight to jail.

-p

[warrant46]

426. Thank drug warrior Eric Holder

[tridim]

431. Holder and the Obama Administration just gave CO and WA its blessing to legalize cannabis.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[warrant46]

437. Your rude reply is noted

[tridim]

430. No they don't. nt

[JonLP24]

412. I think the best thing to do is ignore him

I'm not sure what he's protesting since he obviously can carry weapons where he's carrying his weapon but the calls & complaints I imagine are driving him to do what he's doing. I don't think he has any intention of using the weapons, he appears to be making a point as he seems aware of what he can do legally and riling up people.

I think if people properly ignored (of course observe in-case he does un-sling his weapon and wander onto school property) he'd go away.

[rdharma]

425. I'm not willing to ignore this bizarre and potentially dangerous ....

... behavior in a public setting.

If you choose to do so, that's your right.

But I know what action I' ll take.

[JonLP24]

436. I just think

that following him around with cameras, calling the police(over-and-over), etc would just give him fire to continue his protest.

Though I like the idea another poster mentioned about following him around with guns slinged.

[mainer]

439. Follow him around, spread his name, and ridicule him

because he needs his guns to "feel safe" when women and children don't need guns to "feel safe".

[Blue_Tires]

454. If I lived in that community, at the very least I'd want to know

1. Who he is
2. Any relevant past history of violence, crime, mental illness or political extremism

[Nay]

427. Of course not. But if the school calls the cops to haul away a first-grader who made a gun

with his hand or with a stick he found on the playground, that kid will be hauled off in handcuffs. And suspended.

[Tigress DEM]

428. Right. Trayvon had skittles and tea - suspicious. Man carries a rifel near school - Okey Dokey?

Could the difference be the color of his skin?

Couldn't the cops be performing due diligence to ask to see his permit to carry?

And verify he isn't a non-custodial parent in violation of a restraining order?

I say DEMs start getting guns and just walking behind people like this in packs of 3-10 just to show them we can do whatever they do... because if WE start doing it to them, you sure as hell know they will find some reason it shouldn't be happening to them.

Have a bunch of women do it and we could give the old Paris Hilton excuse. "Well, it's hot! Women carrying guns is so freaking sexy, you know. It's just a fashion statement. Why is this guy freaking out just because we make these accessories look SO MUCH better?"

Maybe follow him home. Make sure he gets there safely.

[Tigress DEM]

429. Maybe THE NRA IS RIGHT - we should all get guns and THEN we are OBVIOUSLY NOT GUILTY!!

IT wasn't about RACE. Trayvon was suspicious because he was looking around in fear (nothing to do with a man following him in a big old SUV.) IF he had been strapped and walking confidently, then Zimmerman would have recognized another God-fearing Gun-toting citizen on the move.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/09/24/2669641/video-released-of-florida-cop-running-over-man-with-his-car/

Marlon should have calmly gotten out of his car, put his gun up on the roof and waited patiently for the cops to give him a ticket for not having his seat belt on. My mistake officer. "Oh, I'm not THAT kind of felon, I have a permit to carry. It's right under the gun, Sir."

[LeftinOH]

432. If I were a parent (at that school), I'd be mad enough to find out his identity.

Since when aren't you required to give name or provide identification? An armed, potential terrorist is walking around deliberately stirring up shit and causing people to call the police. It's not against the law to be an asshole, but this goes beyond that.

Follow him around with a video camera with lots of closeups, ask him lots of questions..whether he answers them or not. Then post it online and share it with everyone in the community.

[mainer]

438. "Matt of Hillsboro" could be the guy

I came across his postings here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/member.php?65002-Mattimusmaximus

He says he's just exercising his rights and carries guns to "feel safe". What a scaredy cat. I guess he needs guns to protect himself from those scary little elementary school kids.

[Paladin]

441. Personal safety and exercise of rights have nothing to do with it.

This individual is taking public intimidation right up to the brink, seeing just what he can get away with. I'm willing to bet that when it's all sorted out, it will be found that this guy doesn't have the requisite emotional or intellectual wiring to be allowed anywhere near a firearm---at least, not in a society with any serious commitment to the protection of its citizenry.

[GalaxyHunter]

440. good for him.

here it is right here!

Police say they don't know who the man is because he's refused to give them his name. And police can't require him to provide his name or identification, because he hasn't broken any laws.

There you have it!

[Blue_Tires]

444. He just gets the leeway and BOD from cops that people of color usually don't...

If I refused to give my name to the cops around here I'd be run in in a heartbeat....

[GalaxyHunter]

445. if you refuse while carrying a gun or just refuse without carrying a gun?

[Blue_Tires]

446. I don't carry

but either instance would almost certainly apply equally...

[Taverner]

462. Der Waffeficken nach dem Strohhalm greifen

[mainer]

442. If you really feel you need a gun as protection, for god's sake get a CCW

It's not the guns themselves that cause such panic among the public. It's the fact that some guy feels the need to publicly brandish them, for the sheer joy of scaring people.

I have friends and family members who have concealed weapons permits and carry their guns out of sight. I'm OK with that. They do it discreetly, for no purpose other than to feel protected. And they go through the background checks to offer at least some assurance that they're responsible gun owners.

But these open carry guys just want to freak everyone out.

[marions ghost]

447. Making the world safer for gunmen...

--to walk into a school and do whatever they want.

Anybody who does this has a screw loose, dontcha know. A responsible gun owner does not do this.

[Taverner]

461. Waiting for the Waffeficken to chime in and say this perfectly ok

And that it's his right to scare the shit out of little kids, blah blah blah, second amendment, blah blah cold dead hands, blah blah