If light skin is so desirable, why do white people get tans?

[MoonRiver]

Many put their health at serious risk tanning themselves at salons or lingering way too long in the sun, to become dark skinned.

Could it be that some of us don't really like our natural selves? Whites want to be brown, and browns want to be white. Maybe many humans just possess a deep seated psychological insecurity, which we try to find external ways to "fix."

[Lizzie Poppet]

1. I don't!

I avoid tanning like the plague (or like malignant melanoma, to be more precise). Dead-fishbelly-pale goth chick and happy to stay that way...the pastier, the tastier!

[MoonRiver]

3. I avoid it too, but I know so many people who are obsessed with tanning.

Most of them are very fair skinned, and most at risk for cancer. Sad.

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. Yep...I know a few.

One of them thankfully, is of Italian origin, and her natural skin tone is "olive." I suspect she's at a bit less risk. I'm naturally a sort of strawberry blonde, and I have the ghost-pale skin you'd expect. Sunscreen is my friend.

[BlueJazz]

7. "...the pastier, the tastier! " LOL!

That's pretty good !

[rl6214]

19. I think the dark tan is really a thing of the past

Not that some people still don't try to get it but with the health risks being talked about all the time, I just don't think it's as desire able. And skin cancer doesn't discriminate when it comes to race.

[magical thyme]

89. actually, yes it does, sort of...

The same mutation responsible for red hair apparently triggers a pathway associated with malignant melanoma. Ok, not race, but red hair leads to significatnly higher risk.

http://hms.harvard.edu/news/how-red-hair-may-increase-melanoma-risk-8-22-13

A person’s skin pigment, which determines hair color and skin tone, is influenced by the melanocortin-1 (MC1R) gene receptor. For the population’s 1 to 2 percent of redheads, a mutation in MC1R accounts for their red hair color and typical light skin.

Now researchers from Harvard Medical School have discovered that the same MC1R mutation responsible for the red-hair phenotype also promotes an important cancer-causing pathway. The new findings, reported online August 22 in the journal Molecular Cell, help to explain the molecular mechanisms that underlie redheads’ well-known risk of developing melanoma, providing new insights for treating and preventing this dangerous type of skin cancer....

...“In this current study, we have demonstrated that the mutation MC1R-RHC promotes the PI3K/Akt signaling pathway when a red-haired individual is exposed to UV radiation,” explained co-senior author Wenyi Wei, an HMS associate professor of pathology at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. PI3K/Akt is a well-known cancer-causing pathway that has been implicated in breast cancer, ovarian cancer and lung cancer. ..

...“Together, our findings provide a possible molecular mechanism as to why red-haired individuals harboring MC1R mutations are much more susceptible to UV-induced skin damage than individuals with darker skin, resulting in a 10- to 100-fold higher frequency of melanoma,” said Wei.

[Eleanors38]

76. Growing up in Florida, my Mom had her sons wear

broad straw hats, some of strange design out of C. America. Yesterday I was hunting a.Texas dove field on a blue bird day -- in a broad straw hat.

Hmmm. Wonder why some black women dye their hair blonde?

[snooper2]

2. For the same reason women wear eyeshadow

[MoonRiver]

4. yes

[delta17]

6. It says that you have been outside.

Either on vacation, hiking or working outside etc. I read that in the middle ages, being pale was considered attractive, since nobility stayed inside while the peasants worked outside.

[FarCenter]

10. Tanned all over has status; tanned face, arms and legs from working out of doors does not.

[Scout]

83. yes, tanning is a status symbol now.

it used to be fashionable to have pale skin, as you weren't outside working the fields, i.e. wealthy.

now it's fashionable to have all over tans (not farmer tans) to show you are wealthy and tan at your leisure, you travel where it's warm, you don't have to work outside as a laborer.

[go west young man]

8. A bit of a silly post but here's the proper answer.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/death-love-sex-magic/200908/tanning-is-psychological-cure-death

Re-edited as I didn't mean to across as snippy like that. I just meant it's a bit trivial.

[daleo]

14. The abstract says tanning promotes self-esteem, which reduces death anxiety

But it didn't address why tanning enhances self-esteem. I believe that's the nub of the original post's question.

[pipi_k]

9. So, I remember being a kid

back in the late 50s - early 60s and hearing my father talk about the hypocrisy.

Whites looking down on blacks, then running out to the beach to get tans that, in some cases, turned their skin even darker than the skins of some of the very people they hated.

And to add to the craziness, white people without tans were, and in some circles still are, seen as being "unhealthy" if their skin isn't browned from hours on the beach or on a tanning bed.

Whatever.

I don't tan easily, so I gave up. Never felt compelled to lie around frying myself. At 60, my complexion is probably better than the skin of some 35 year olds who have spent hours trying to look "healthy" but who now look like dried beef jerky.

[KansDem]

34. "I don't tan easily, so I gave up."

I know the feeling! When I was in my late teens I tried surfing; maybe two or three times. I never could stand up on the board for any length of time!

My friend who got me interested in surfing had already surfed awhile. He was dark complexioned with black hair. I had a light complexion with blondish hair and red beard.

Anyway, I would try a few times then give up. My friend would continue surfing for a while longer as I laid on the beach, sometimes falling asleep.

I got severe sunburns: red skin with blisters developing on my shoulders and legs. I was miserable for a couple of days and had to sleep with no blanket. I thought "The Hell with this! I'll retain my status as a Hodad!"

I love the beach but will always prefer a night-time beach party over a sunny day of frolicking in the surf anytime!

[CrispyQ]

39. I gave up tanning at 19 when I read in a Cosmo magazine that a bad sunburn

can take three years to completely heal. That really made an impact.

The only bad burn I got after reading that was in 1991 standing in line to get my re-issued Guns & Roses concert tickets. I thought we would be in & out. Nope. Three hours in line. One of the best concerts I've ever seen, though, & great seats!

[pipi_k]

88. OMG

blisters??!!!

Damn.

You must have been sick as a dog!

[Greybnk48]

11. One reason is to show that you have enough money

for leisure time. Things like golf and lounging around the pool. You're not stuck inside all day as someone's drudge.

I know in the South where my mother was from (Miss.) my Grandmom used to tell us to avoid the sun so we didn't look like field hands.

[SheilaT]

28. It's my understanding that tanning and the desirability of tanned skin

didn't come about until around the 1920's, when there was enough of a middle class to express that leisure time aspect.

Personally, I'm fair-skinned, and I long ago noticed how older people who had regularly gotten tans were all wrinkly and old looking well before their time. Especially if they also smoked. Then I learned about the sunburn and melanoma connection, and ever since then I've never deliberately gotten a tan. I am outside in the sunlight reasonably often, and the exposed skin is noticeably different from the never-exposed skin, but I'm also 65 so some of that is natural aging.

Most people think I look a good ten years younger than I am.

[WinkyDink]

45. Your second point is the historical one. Never heard your first point.

[Xipe Totec]

12. For the same reason those with curly hair want it straight, and those with straight hair

want it curly.

vive la différence.!

[MoonRiver]

18. I remember that phenomenon when I was a kid.

I always envied my curly haired BFF, and she wanted my straight hair. That's what I'm talking about!

[BOG PERSON]

13. i think you're taking whiteness a bit too literally

n/t

[laundry_queen]

15. I'm sure that's part of it

but there is some research that shows tanning can be addictive as it triggers large amounts of vit D to be synthesized and that can have an anti-depressive effect.

I tanned a bit as a teen (back when it was legal for teens to go to tanning beds) because I was so white people were always asking me if I was ill. And, tanning brought out my freckles and I thought they were cute. Oh, and I had hairy arms and tanning made the hair be less noticeable. I was very self-conscious about every flaw of mine as a teen, as I had a mother who was always picking at me about my appearance. I didn't tan until I was very dark because I didn't have much money for tanning, and I knew about the dangers of tanning so I just did it before special occasions generally. There, everything you needed to know about why some people tan, lol. BTW - I don't use tanning beds anymore and I rarely am outside long enough for a tan but I still enjoy the occasional weekend sunning on the beach. I do have documented vit D deficiency so I try to get some sun in the summer. I supplement in the winter since I'm so far north I was told there wasn't enough sun at the right angle to produce vit D in most people during the winter months. I actually looked into tanning beds as a form of vit D supplementation and I'm not convinced it's a viable option because of the whole 'diminishing returns' thing. I will say like the tanning addicts, I always felt a sense of well being when I tanned. I was just able to weigh pros and cons and try to be reasonable about it.

That said, my SIL is half black and she likes to sit in the sun because she likes being darker (she thinks her skin is a bit yellow when she doesn't tan). I think it's personal preference and societal norms. 120 years ago women were still wearing bonnets to keep their faces as white as possible because that was the fashion back then.

[LiberalArkie]

23. Several years ago I saw a chart that plotted sun screen use vs anti-depressants

It was interesting, as the use of sun screen increased so did the use of anti-depressants.

I believe it is true in my case, just 30 minutes in the sun, I feel like a million dollars. When fall and winter come, it is hard to pry me out of my bedroom. I just don't want to do anything. A couple of years ago I started going to the gym during the winter months, hitting up the tanning booth got my old muscles warmed up. I then headed to the treadmills and ellipticals for a good workout.

[doc03]

27. I agree I feel better when I get sunshine. Being in Ohio were it is cloudy, raining or snowing most

of the winter I think we need the vitamin d.

[Arugula Latte]

43. A huge percentage of us have a vitamin D deficiency

which makes a lot of sense considering we evolved to be "outside" almost exclusively. Cave time was probably mainly a night/winter type of thing.

[Ruby the Liberal]

59. I go into a funk during the fall time change

My Doc told me to buy a full spectrum light - which has helped some, but the lack of raw sunlight (Vitamin D) really jacks me up every fall. Takes me weeks to adjust. I actually tan once every other week in November/December to stay in balance and avoid SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder).

[Eleanors38]

77. Get out and hunt more! Feel better, eat better.

[Ruby the Liberal]

90. Hunt?

As in killing animals? Sorry - I'll risk melanoma. Hunting isn't my thing.

[Eleanors38]

92. We all kill to eat, but I understand.

[treestar]

16. Leisure class signal

It was not desirable to have a tan in the 19th century, because it meant the white person had to work outdoors. Ladies carried parasols to preserve their upper class paleness.

But sometime in the 70s, it meant you could afford to sit by the pool or a trip to Florida - having a tan in winter because you'd been to Florida made you cool.

Black people - totally different, internalizing the oppressive concept that lighter is better than darker. Like the hair discussion on the board now.

[uppityperson]

53. exactly, glad to see someone else knows this also. It shows you don't have to work, but can sit in

the sun. Rather than being stuck at an inside office or mall or shop, you can sit outside in the sun. The more even the tan the better because that shows you are actually spending time tanning rather than (omg) having to work outside and get a farmer's tan.

Used to be pale was in because it meant you didn't have to be working outside but could hang out inside.

At least for light skinned people. For black people, like in India, the lighter the better, which is oppressive and wrong.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. Browns want to be white?

I'm not so sure about that . . .

[JCMach1]

48. It's a generalization, but drop by a grocery store, or mall in Dubai and check out the Skin Whitenin

aisle...

[JustAnotherGen]

56. See post 16

I think trees tar expressed my concerns.

[JCMach1]

57. Arab and South Asians have a completely different history though...

Although in Oman and UAE dark skin is often associated with slavery... Remember, Oman used to control Zanzibar and other parts of East Africa. India is even more complex as successive waves of lighter skinned invaders came and went over the centuries.

Almost every matrimonial ad you see in places like shadi.com (the Indian marriage web-site) will mention skin color.

My only point is the issue is very convoluted and complicated.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. Agree on convoluted and complicated

What triggered my angst is my perspective as the "other" in America. I have no desire to be a white woman - I'm the bi-racial persons that soaks up the sun. . Give me the beach and the ocean any day! I do wish we had a larger fish bowl of observation. IE in America the "other" has many assessments about her, her life, and criticism of the choices made in her system of circumstances - but the dominant 'Caucasian/White culture/race is actually in a fish bowl of observation and gets uncomfortable when the other points out truths about the dominant culture.

So from an American - black American perspective - I get twitchy when blanket statements are made about the internalization of privilege. I think very little is understood about our internal and emotional experience and what might motivate us to take certain actions. IE we don't wish to be white - we wish to be heard and valued without explanation or apologies for our expression of our experience.

Now man years ago I dated a man from UAE (Arab) who treated me very kindly and was fascinated with my appearance. But he was much too old for me and that "killed" it. I did not realize that type of race based experience existed from the ruling/dominant culture of UAE as my experience was one of tolerance and acceptance from his friends and family.

[malaise]

63. Skin bleaching is a massive business

in India

[KamaAina]

84. People have pointed out that the new Miss America couldn't have won a pageant in India.

Because she's too dark!

[yawnmaster]

20. I'm not sure the premise is completely correct, light skin...

...being so desirable.
Racism goes well beyond skin color.
Skin color is just one of the indicators of racial difference.
There is much overlap of skin color between races, so the racist uses more than skin color to base their racism, such as culture, hair, clothing, speech, etc.

[KitSileya]

21. No, it's because white people are so secure in their privilege

For them, a tan doesn't mean increased discrimination, so they don't worry about it. Pretty much the whole world has internalized the belief that Caucasian beauty standards are the most desirable - if you don't have black hair and black eyes, you don't have to worry about not measuring up to the whiteness of these beauty standards, regardless of your weight, height, symmetry of face etc. Everyone will see that you're white and treat you accordingly. Believe me, it's quite a privilege, because as a brown-eyed, dark-haired girl in a Nordic country, I didn't need to tan too much before I got epithets thrown at me. Especially when it was fashionable to use your winter scarf to cover your head in the late 80s, a la a loose hijab, I was often mistaken for a Pakistani, and got a taste of what East Asian women live with all the time.

In addition, getting a tan has only been popular for white people since Coco Chanel stepped off the plane, exclaiming that a tan was a woman's best cosmetic. Before that, not having a tan was a sign of class. However, increasingly, among white people, a tan became a status symbol because it showed that you could travel in your holiday (here I'm talking about Europeans.)

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. Sun exposure improves, or at leasts *masks*, a lot of skin disorders...

... like psoriasis, seborrhea, rosacea.

Lot's of folks suffer from these.

Beyond that... at some point in relatively recent human history ( I guess in the industrial age) tanned caucasion skin signified that one had the means to afford leisure time that could be spent in the out of doors. ( While Mr. and Mrs. Hapless Proletairat were stuck inside the factory or what have you.)

[doc03]

24. I am fortunate that I tan very easily, I spend a day in the sun and get a great tan. Then after

that I can use sunblock and still retain it. I have had melanoma but it was inside my eye. The doctor says that doesn't seem
to be related to exterior skin cancer.

[GoCubsGo]

25. I always wondered that, myself.

I think the "tanning" thing comes from the same people who tell us what to wear, and what perfumed shit to slather on our bodies. Yeah, it's insecurity, but I think that insecurity actually derives from a group of people who are trying to sell us shit, like trips to tanning beds. fake tan sprays, and sun tan oils.

[Egalitarian Thug]

26. I think it's like hair. Most people don't like whatever they've got.

Straight haired people want curls, brunettes want to be blond, and so on.

But I think your main point is probably far more valid than we'll admit, even to ourselves.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

[MoonRiver]

29. Love that quotation!

[Egalitarian Thug]

30. It should be our national Mantra. n/t

[MoonRiver]

31. Yep

[Eleanors38]

78. Ha! I agree.

[bobclark86]

32. Not so much...

1) Before the Industrial Revolution, all the farm hands had tans (or were black), so super-white was the "in" thing because rich people could afford to sit inside all day. During and after the Industrial Revolution, poor people were working on mills and such, thus staying indoors. The rich people, thanks to trains and steamships, could go vacation in the tropics, where they could get all tanned up.

Basically, they want to look like they are rich.

2) It's orange, not black. Black is "bad," but "orange" is in (see point 1).

[Cleita]

33. Silly isn't it? Not only that ladies, it makes you wrinkled and aged prematurely.

I know seventy year olds who look younger than some over fifty women who have spent their lives out in the sun without good protection. Most of them are also fighting skin cancers too.

[bravenak]

35. I don't know any browns who want to be white.

I know some browns and many whites who tan. I tan occasionally (and im a brown)in the winter because we get so little sun in Alaska.
Usually though its cosmetic.

[MoonRiver]

37. I probably should have explained more in my OP.

If you remember an Indian American woman won Miss America, or some such contest. Anyway, it was reported that she could never have won a similar contest in India, because being light skinned is so valued there.

[bravenak]

38. Oh yeah.

The bleaching cream. I remember now.

[LWolf]

36. I don't.

I know plenty, though, who do, and you make a valid point.

[Bosonic]

40. A fair percentage of people are just peculiar

[MoonRiver]

50. Microwave Lady!

[Glassunion]

41. You answered your own question in your subject line

There is a difference between "light" and "white".

The way I look at skin tone is that we are all coffee with varying amounts of cream added.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. I've heard sociologists suggest that it's to show they can afford not to work.

Back in the days when most people worked outside, it was fashionable to be pale-skinned.

Nowadays, tans are fashionable.

Personally, I think that that getting to a causal link is a stretch, but it's an amusing theory.

[panader0]

46. Welcome to DU hhjj!

[uppityperson]

49. How do feel about drones?

[Posteritatis]

47. Tans != skin colour. (nt)

[Democracyinkind]

51. Because tanned white, rather than white, is the perceived ideal?

[LittleBlue]

52. I used to prefer tanned skin when I was younger

but I've come to also like pale skin as I age. Nicole Kidman and Mary-Louise Parker are good examples of beautiful skin.

Tanning can cover imperfections.

[sibelian]

54. It looks nicer.

Pasty white skin is actually a kind of a weird colour. Brown is much nicer. Says pasty white me.

[kestrel91316]

55. I'm a white person and I don't get a tan. Of course that's not for lack of trying.

[Ruby the Liberal]

58. Tanning adds vitamin D and boosts endorphins

Yes, it is dangerous in large doses - but back in the 70s, we slathered ourselves with baby oil and laid in the sun for hours on end.

I still tan once every 3-4 weeks (went today actually) because I like how it makes me look and feel. Then again, I have a Mediterranean complexion with dark hair and blue eyes - so maybe not as prone to sunburns as those who are more fair skinned. Not one for looking like that woman from New Jersey (?) that looked like she spent her life in a microwave, but tanning every few weeks keeps me where I like my skin tone.

And it certainly does help conceal skin imperfections. I find that I wear little to no makeup when I am tan - which is better for my skin in that regard...

[laundry_queen]

81. Oh, that's another benefit for me I forgot about

it helps my acne.

I have polycystic ovaries and thus, even as an adult I constantly deal with bad skin and acne. Tanning always seems to clear up my skin. It was a huge part of the reason I tanned as a teen (my acne was really bad as a teen). My friends were all taking Accutane and I was tanning. I think tanning was the lesser of 2 evils in that case.

[Ruby the Liberal]

91. There is a connection between ovarian cysts and acne?

I totally get that tanning helps the skin, but i know others will disagree with me. Back when I lived on the coast, the combination of the sun and salt water would cure whatever ails you. I could have a scrape that was slow to heal, and a day at the beach "cured" it immediately.

[laundry_queen]

93. Polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) isn't just ovarian cysts

is a syndrome with many facets. Basically, it's a bit of a mystery, but it may be metabolic in nature. For some reason, there is insulin resistance and an imbalance of hormones produced by the ovaries (which can result in cysts when ovulation gets messed up). Testosterone is usually elevated. Women with PCOS can have many symptoms - hirtuism, acne, infertility, obesity, irregular periods, ovarian cysts, anovulation, diabetes/hypoglycemia/other insulin issues, high triglycerides...

I basically showed symptoms from puberty - suddenly it was way too hard to keep weight off (I ended up starving myself to stay a 'heavy side of normal' weight until I got pregnant with my first, then I ballooned up), I had whacko periods, hair where it shouldn't be (I was waxing at age 13), bad acne...etc

Infertility was the one thing I haven't suffered (I'm lucky to have 4 kids - other women with PCOS are definitely not that lucky, but my first 2 did take some time to conceive)- but all the other symptoms are there for me.
Anyway.

Salt water was what my piercer made me use to heal my piercings. It works great. I also use it in a neti pot for my sinus issues. That and the sun really are cure alls.

[yuiyoshida]

60. Thailand’s skin whitening craze: How far will it go?

By Kaewmala



The skin whitening craze has reached women’s pubic areas in Thailand. Officially. This new development has been well recorded by international press. Kate Hodal of The Guardian reported on 23 September 2012:

A new product said to make women’s intimate areas ‘fairer within four weeks’ has revived the beauty debate in colour-conscious Thailand, where fair skin is associated with opportunity, success and status, and caused critics to question when, if ever, the skin-whitening craze will end.

Products promising to lighten the face, body and armpits are already available across the country, with skin-whitening pills and diet supplements claiming to pick up where the cosmetics leave off. But this is the first time that a vaginal whitening wash has hit the Thai market.


more..http://asiancorrespondent.com/90046/thai-craze-for-white-skin-how-far-does-it-go-and-where-will-it-end/

[Number23]

61. Allure magazine does an annual Beauty issue. Allure is about as mainstream as you can get

In the 90's, the "beauty" ideal was Christie Brinkley. Blonde hair, blue eyes. http://www.racialicious.com/2011/03/23/allure-marks-shifting-beauty-standards-declares-the-all-american-beauty-ideal-dead/

Most recently, the "beauty" ideal was Angeline Jolie but what was particularly interesting was that when respondents were showed pictures of various people and asked to rank them in order of "beauty," a Latina woman was at the top of the list for women and a South Asian man was at the top for men.

Which shows that the trend is for darker skin right now, at least in America. Though I still find it interesting that black even bi-racial people are in short supply in the mainstream media that Jolie was cast as the beauty ideal though she is far from dark-skinned.

[JustAnotherGen]

64. This deserves it's own thread!

Great piece from racialicious Number23.

Re black even bi-racial people being in short supply in the mainstream media . . . I'm pulling this bullet point from the article:



64 percent of all our respondents think women of mixed race represent the epitome of beauty, and around 70 percent believe they might well be attracted to those who aren’t of their own race or ethnicity.


Isn't that something . . .

[Number23]

85. Girl, we are coming into our own, aren't we?

And might I say.... It's About Fucking Time.

I've mentioned the Allure piece before in the AA forum because I thought it was remarkable. I even sent Allure an email begging them to send their Beauty Census results to all of the media and modeling agencies throughout the US which were still way too preoccupied with pale skin, and/or blue eyes and blonde hair and informing them that the rest of the country was moving on without them. They never published that letter.

[dipsydoodle]

65. Stops them from looking insipid.

.

[theHandpuppet]

66. Because they're dying to get skin cancer

Seriously.

[B Calm]

67. I can't avoid getting tanned. I'm outside more than in and I have a dark complexion to begin with.

[a la izquierda]

68. I'm naturally tan.

My mom's family is from Southern Europe. I got the dark skin genes. My sisters are fair, after my Irish dad.
Tanning gives one wrinkles. No thanks

[KG]

69. caucasians may be like some color, but they still wanna be caucasians.

[Recursion]

70. My neighbors are appalled that I tan

Personally, I'm a pasty man; I need my vitamin D. But in a given 30 minutes of programming, there are 10 minutes of skin whitening commercials in India. It's fucked up.

[Dorian Gray]

71. I know a lot of people

who don't tan, but I do think that there is always something about ourselves that we try to change. Those with curly hair often use relaxers. Those with straight hair, curl theirs. Make up, hair dye, diets, etc. There's always something that we want to change.

[madokie]

72. I'm as white as the new blown snow

but soon as the sun pops out I go dark brown, seems like it happens over night. I can bare my ass right now and it will blind you but a tad above or below that I'm as brown as if I was a full blood Cherokee. In other words I tan easily. I prefer it to burning

[laundry_queen]

82. 2 of my kids are like that

and this is going to make me sound like a bad parent, I'm sure, but with those 2 kids, I never have to worry about forgetting the sunblock. If they have 'outdoor' day at school, they can stay out all day and not burn. My other 2 kids however...they are like me. Burn, peel, white again. An example this summer was we went to the beach for a couple hours. We all put on sunblock. The kids went swimming off and on. I didn't reapply. Like I said, we were only there for 2 hours, and the sunblock was supposed to be waterproof - I know you have to reapply to be on the safe side, but I usually only do it when we're outside for a really long time and I have never had a problem. Until that day. It must've been bad sunblock or something, but my one (non-tanning) daughter burned so bad, and she didn't even go in the water. The other 2 (one tanning and one non) definitely got sun too. The other pasty child burned slightly but my tanner turned dark brown - not even a hint of a burn, and she was the one in and out of the water the most. She got so dark. She could pass as 'ethnic' when she's tanned. As a baby I kept taking her to the doctor because she had breastmilk jaundice. It faded at around 2 months but she still had some yellow. So I took her back to the doctor. Her bilirubin was fine. I asked for more liver tests since she was so yellow. The doctor finally said, "Um, laundry_queen, I think this is just her skin tone." Oh. So her pasty white father and I produced an olive/yellow skinned kid and I just didn't know (no, no chance of her being the mailman's kid, LOL) that could happen. My oldest is pasty in the winter but tans the same way. My other 2 have skin that looks like they should have red hair (translucent white w/freckles).

Babbling now...but it's all so interesting to me...how different skin tones react to the sun. Oh, my SIL, who is half black but very dark just the same, when I asked if it's true that she burns as bad as we do, has stated she never wears sunblock and she's outside all the time and she's never burned bad enough to peel. She winced at my daughter's burn and said that's NEVER happened to her, even on her winter trip to Mexico where she spent 8 hours/day at the beach w/no sunblock. So skin color does offer some protection.

[DanTex]

73. Actually, people used to avoid tans because it meant you were low-class and had to work in fields.

Then at some point the thinking changed, and a tan came to mean that you were high-class and had time to lie around in the sun.

[tblue37]

74. Sociologist Thoorstein Veblen, the man who coined

the terms "leisure class" and "conspicuous consumption" explained that status markers are determined by external signs that one doesn't work for a living and that one can afford to waste resources.

When laborers worked outside, milky white skin was a sign that a person never worked outdoors, and also that when the person did venture outdoors, he or she had the money to have coverage--often in the form of a lackey who held a protective item, like a parasol or umbrella, over the person's head.

Also, wealthy people did not WALK anywhere. They could afford covered carriages and coaches, or in other cultures, canopied litters carried by slaves.

Nowadays, most workers are stuck indoors at their jobs. The leisure class has the time to play outside while the peons work in cubicles, restaurants, etc. The workers also work so many hours that by the time they get free, there is usually no daylight left. Even on days off, they have to rush around doing errands or stay home doing chores or catching up on sleep. Besides, the nice part of nature is inaccessible to many workers and poorer people. In many places they would have to drive some distance--if they can even afford transportation--to get to a place where they could play outside.

Meanwhile, the rich can afford vacations in sunny climes, they can play on yachts, they play golf and tenis at country clubs, etc.

The middle class--and even the poor when they can--mimic the rich, to have the class markers.

Thus, when tan skin become a sign of the leisure class, it became desirable to other classes. Of course, it must be tan WHITE skin, not skin that is naturally golden or darker because of race or ethnicity.

(BTW, the outrageous excess of modern weddings comes from the middle class's imitation of the weddings of 19th century aristocrats.)

[LostOne4Ever]

75. Never understood that myself

I never found the appeal in showing that one damaged ones skin. I don't find it aesthetically pleasing or rational. Even if it is about class i think its a bit dumb.

"Oh, hey, I don't have to work so im going to lie in the sun and give myself skin cancer."

SMH

[erpowers]

79. The Power

It's the power that comes from being white. Yes, white people get tans, but that does not stop them from being white. With being white, whether tanned or not, there is a power. There are a number of things that tanned white people do not have to go through that other races do have to go through.

In addition, views about tanning and the darker skin that comes from tanning have changed. I know this was a long time ago, but back in the days of Queen Elizabeth no rich person would have had a tan. During that time, darker skin was connected to poverty. So rich people like Queen Elizabeth tried to look as pale as possible to show they were rich and did not have to work.

I do not know when tanning became popular. It would be interesting to see if the changing views about work changed they way people viewed tanning. The views about work changed somewhere along the way? It may be the case that the changing views of work made tanning more acceptable. It may not be that tanning became acceptable because white people wanted to be black, but that they wanted to be seen as workers. At some point being a hard worker become a noble thing. Being tanned could show that one had been outside working.

[AngryAmish]

80. Fashion

Why do people pierce their ears?

[NCTraveler]

86. Best OP ever!!!!

Ohhh what our minds do when we have too much spare time.

[Zorra]

87. Maybe because skin that is very pale sometimes indicates a poor state of health?

I almost never wear makeup, like, foundation maybe a few times a year, and a few years ago I was at a drag show at my favorite lgbt bar. Anyway, I was staying at a motel because I had business in the city, and I decided I'd wear some makeup that night. I've never been good with makeup, and that night I put on a foundation that was way too light for my skin, but in the motel room light I didn't think it was that noticeable.

The main host drag performer at the show was Mexican American, and is one of the best stand up comics I've ever seen. So I'm sitting there pleasantly buzzed with my friends, and the performer looks straight at me from the stage and says in her best scolding, sarcastic voice, "tsk...you know, all you dark skinned girls out there should never use makeup to try to look like white girls, unless it's Halloween and you're doing a vampire costume. No matter how much makeup you wear, you ain't gonna make yourself a white girl... " and she went on and on about it, each line funnier than the last, while my friends cracked up and I sank lower and lower in my chair in embarrassment.

It's funny now, looking back at it. I'm pretty sure that was the last time I ever wore foundation, and I swear I wasn't trying to look like a white girl.