59 dead in Kenya Mall, 70+ dead in Iraq bombing. Now 60+ dead in Pakistan church

[cali]

bombing.

pair of suicide bombers detonated their explosives outside a historic church in northwestern Pakistan on Sunday, killing over 60 people in the deadliest-ever attack on the country's Christian minority, officials said.

The bombing in Peshawar, which wounded another 120 people, underlines the threat posed by Islamic extremists as the government seeks a peace deal with domestic Taliban militants. It will likely intensify criticism from those who believe that negotiating peace with militants is a mistake.

The attack occurred as hundreds of worshippers were coming out of the church in the city's Kohati Gate district after services to get a free meal of rice offered on the front lawn, said a top government administrator, Sahibzada Anees.

"There were blasts and there was hell for all of us," said Nazir John, who was at the church with at least 400 other worshippers. "When I got my senses back, I found nothing but smoke, dust, blood and screaming people. I saw severed body parts and blood all around."

<snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57604048/at-least-60-killed-in-pakistan-church-bombing/

[andtheBeast]

1. The Sky is falling?

[bluestate10]

2. What is your point for posting this OP, that fanatics aimlessly kill innocent people? nt

[cali]

4. that it's tragic. what is anyone's point in posting this kind of thing?

all these have happened in the last 24 hours. that's pretty awful.

[treestar]

12. It's Obama's fault

It's the fault of the U.S. for interfering in those countries.

[hrmjustin]

16. It is a current event that happened today.

[Ron Green]

3. Any religion that sees enemies

is a bullshit religion.

[malaise]

6. Well that would be most religions

catholics used to kill protestants as well as anyone they could from any other religion all in the name of maintaining religious hegemony.

All religion is fucked up.

[treestar]

13. Yes. It is that people believe they have the truth and the way and the light

and others who don't believe are a threat to that. It doesn't even settle in the major religions. This lady who lives across the street believes we, her neighbors are going to hell. Because we are Catholic.

She's still pretty nice to us though. But we are going to burn for eternity. And she's going to heaven.

[FarCenter]

14. It is particularly bad among monotheists -- I think that polytheists tend to be more tolerant

After all, if you believe in gods A, B, and C, it seems more reasonable for someone else to believe in gods X, Y, and Z.

[treestar]

19. My theory is

we should consider all religions to be the same, like languages. The French speak French and aren't going to hell for that. Allah and yahweh and Buddha are each culture's way of saying the same thing.

[FarCenter]

20. I don't think that would be compatible with Islam

First, there is no separation of church and state, so to have the state recognize multiple religions as equally valid/invalid is not possible.

Second, there is no conversion from Islam to anything else. Anyone who was once a Muslim (e.g. by birth) is to be executed for apostasy.

[treestar]

21. It wouldn't be compatible with most religions

which is why the more fanatical get themselves into such a state they are willing to kill others over it.

So my suggestion is just something that can simmer. If people eventually thought of it that way, it would cut down on the fighting.

[FarCenter]

23. Islam and Christianity are the main problems

They both stem from Judaism, which was originally a genocidal monotheism if the Biblical accounts of the invasion of Canaan by the Hebrews are to believed.

Hinduism and Buddhism have coexisted in India for a long while and it doesn't seem that the introduction of either to China and Southeast Asia was aggressively militant. Daoism and Confucianism also don't seem as militant as Christianity and Islam.

Shinto was part of Japanese aggression, but that may be copying Christian attitudes introduced after opening of Japanese society forced by the United States.

And I doubt that American Indian, African animism, Australian aboriginal religion or the shamanic religions of Eurasia were militant.

[Arugula Latte]

22. Monotheism causes a lot of anger

because you have to believe in a moodswinging deity that is supposed to be loving and benevolent but is frequently a savage, ruthless, murderous asshole. There is really no way to meld the contradictions except the old saws about not our place to question, there is a plan, we'll find out later, blah blah blah ...

[hrmjustin]

26. I think I will stick with the loving God part of your post.

[malaise]

25. My mother was deeply Catholic and thought that about most people

but she married a Protestant and ended up with several agnostic and atheist children. Of course, just like divorce her Jebus' rules did not apply to her children or grandchildren.
She was a treat. My second sister always says she's glad mom died before all the scandals because that would have killed her.

[Ron Green]

24. I wouldn't agree with that.

Any belief system that teaches tolerance and forgiveness is not "fucked up," in my opinion.

[FarCenter]

5. Being a Christian in Pakistan is pretty stupid.

Why wouldn't one be a Muslim in a Muslim country?

Paris vaut bien une messe. ("Paris is well worth a mass&quot

Henry King of Navarre, when abjuring the Huguenot faith and becoming a Roman Catholic upon inheriting the French crown as Henry IV.

[kiva]

8. You might be on to something here.

Since Europe and the Americas are predominately Christian, then we should expect everyone - Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, and whoever else I am forgetting - who lives in any of these regions to convert to Christianity immediately. It might be necessary to partition various other countries according to religion, but just think how much better it would be to segregate the world. Security guards at all airports and borders to check for religious IDs - maybe tattoo everyone? Problem solved...damn, you're brilliant.

[FarCenter]

10. Europe and the Americas are predominantly secular or only vaguely religious

And those who are fervently religious, fervently believe that the various other religions followed by the majority of people are heretical.

Religious tolerance in the US is the result of every religion being a minority.

Religious tolerance in Europe is the result of the enlightenment and Protestant theology and philosophy which proved most religious beliefs to be untenable.

[kiva]

31. Exactly where are you getting your arguments from?

Europe and the Americas are predominantly secular or only vaguely religious. No on both counts. A few individual countries may be largely secular, but not predominantly so; and vaguely religious? If you've been paying any attention at all to news on DU, it's pretty evident that many fundamental Christians in the U.S. are more than 'vaguely' religious, and let's not even get into the Catholic hold on much of Central and South America - letting women die because of abortion bans, anyone?

And those who are fervently religious, fervently believe that the various other religions followed by the majority of people are heretical. I've read this sentence four times, and it still doesn't make any sense - what are you trying to say?

Religious tolerance in the US is the result of every religion being a minority. No, the Protestant majority have often proven to be less than tolerant - look up Catholic/Protestant conflict in the 19th and 20th century. Or perhaps the statements about some Christian leaders about Islam.

Religious tolerance in Europe is the result of the enlightenment and Protestant theology and philosophy which proved most religious beliefs to be untenable. Untenable? I don't think that word means what you think it means. Oh, and check out a few countries like Ireland and France to see how that whole tolerance thing is going.

[FarCenter]

32. From observation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance gives statistics on church attendance in various countries. Weekly attendance in the US is quite high at 43%. Most European countries are far less, with Scandinavians in the single digits.

Very religious people, such as Catholic members of Opus Dei, various Pentecostal sects, some independent Baptists, etc. are very fervent. However, their numbers are not large, and they have significant doctrinal differences over things that most people would not pay attention to, such as whether they are premillennial, postmillennial, or amillenial. In any case, they believe they are true Christians and the others are going to hell, which precludes forming a larger fundamentalist bloc, except on specific issues.

When Protestants were a majority, they were splintered into quite a lot of denominations. Protestants are no longer a majority in the US. They are still a majority of the Christians, but non-Christian religions and no-religion have grown to deprive them of an absolute majority.

I meant untenable. The School of Theology was the most prestigious of the faculties in medieval universities. By the mid 19th century northern European philosophers had mostly demolished theology and it became a place where lesser intellectual lights found refuge. By the early 20th century, theology was no longer a very respectable department in leading universities.

[TheKentuckian]

9. Because it isn't what they believe and their faith isn't just a thing to be picked up

or discarded as a chit for personal power and popularity. It isn't changing the cut of your suit or taking down a flag and raising another.

[treestar]

11. Pakistan is about as bad as it gets for Christians

I read somewhere it is effectively 100% Muslim, so they must be a very small minority by now. If they could get out, they could probably get asylum in any western country.

[hrmjustin]

17. A person is a Christian in Pakistan because they believe in Jesus Christ.

People should be able to hold whatever faith they want.

[MineralMan]

7. Breaking: Religion spawns violence!

Oh, wait...that's very, very old news.

[morningfog]

15. What is YOUR point?

That it isn't news worthy?

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. And another 160 in Syria yesterday.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. sad

[dkf]

27. Maybe it's always been that way we just haven't heard about it.

[JCMach1]

28. The focus on 'religion' as the problem takes the blame away from the radicalization which has been

accomplished across the globe with Saudi petrol dollars.

KSA is a state sponsor of terrorism... full stop. So what if it is in the name of religion... they have to stop the cash flow ...

[Benton D Struckcheon]

29. If I were posting this OP,

the point would be that the Kenya Mall incident is getting top billing because it was an upscale mall with an international clientele and lots of prominent people involved, whereas the church bombing, not to mention the Iraqi one, are just plain folks caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
As always, some lives are worth more than others when it comes to news coverage. I remember years ago Alexander Cockburn of the Village Voice used to keep a running tab of this sort of thing, by checking out how much column space was given to different mass killings or disasters around the world. Obviously the farther you got from the West, the less column space.

[madrchsod]

30. it`s sad that people find it easy to blame religion

i guess it`s easy to blame religion instead of complexity of the situations that breed these murderers around the world.

oh well, to each their own.

[cali]

36. religion plays a huge part in all three of these awful events and to deny it

is ludicrous. Yes, there are other factors, but when a mall is attacked by terrorists who tell all muslims to leave or a church is bombed or Sunnis attack a Shia funeral, it's just crazy to say religion wasn't involved.

And btw, I'm not blaming religion. I'm blaming those who do this shit in the name of religion.

[hrmjustin]

37. Religion did have something to do with these murders.

[PDJane]

33. Global warming, overcrowding and resource depletion could just as easily be the impetus.

Religion is an excuse, but poverty and lack of any visible future due to all of the above are just as easy to blame. I would point out that the US has been stealing other people's wealth for a long time, and that's getting to be annoying to more than a few!

[hrmjustin]

35. I noticed a few trying to figure out who is to blame so I will say that the only people

to blame is the people who did it.