Be careful when you fight monsters, lest you become one yourself....

[Joe the Revelator]

Lots of disgusting posts out there tonight. I'm not a Brietbart apologist,i disagreed with the man vehmelantly, but I also can't celebrate anyone's death. He had kids, he had a family, I'm sad for them, just as I am when anyone else dies.

We win by using ideas and debate, not by becoming ghouls.

[niyad]

1. when somebody that hate-filled, that destructive, snuffs it, I am not going to pretend to be sad.

his wife knew exactly what he was, and chose to be with him--so, no sorrow for her either (nor for anyone who chooses to stay with a monster) I am guessing she has plenty of money to take care of their children, so they won't be suffering and starving.

[Joe the Revelator]

3. Because money can replace a father?

Listen to yourself.

[niyad]

16. who knows how they feel about their father? all I was saying was that, there is, no doubt,

enough money that they are not going to have to worry about food, shelter and clothing.

and as I said earlier, I extend as much compassion and sympathy as he and his ilk do when a decent person dies.

feel free to enjoy your moral high ground. I am no hypocrite.

[GeorgeGist]

59. What leads you to believe that Andrew ...

was a good father?

[Joe the Revelator]

2. What also bothers me is that the same voices who bemoaned the passing of Gadaffi

Are some of the loudest hen it comes to grave dancing tonight.

[MNBrewer]

17. There was a big difference in the causes of the deaths

so maybe that accounts for part of the difference in reaction. ya think?

[Joe the Revelator]

22. Yeah, Gadaffi's was less tragic, and carried with it more reason for celebration.

[MNBrewer]

23. Obtuse, really obtuse.

[Joe the Revelator]

24. Not at all, unless you think the death of a murderer is sadder than the death of a journalist with

Which we disagreed

[MNBrewer]

44. One was killed as a result of military action, the other dropped dead.

I think it's wonderful that the world is now free of Andrew Breitbart and nobody got their hands dirty in accomplishing it.

[AlinPA]

74. Not sure I'd call him a journalist.

[EFerrari]

29. Nobody "bemoaned" the passing of Gadaffi.

Some of us just can't get into a good lynching.

[Joe the Revelator]

30. That's revisionist

And it's funny, you say lynching, most say self defense by the people he wanted to kill.....but I digress.

[EFerrari]

52. Nope. And he was lynched. You don't digress, you obfuscate. n/t

UN rights office calls for investigation into Gaddafi killing
Friday, October 21, 2011

[JURIST] The UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights (OHCHR) [official website] on Friday called for a full investigation into the killing [JURIST report] of former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi [BBC profile; JURIST news archive] in his hometown of Sirte on Thursday. Rupert Colville, the spokesman for UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay [official website] told reporters that there needs to be an investigation into whether Gaddafi was killed during fighting with the rebels or if this was an execution. The OHCHR's call for an investigation into the killing of Gaddafi comes amid contradictory accounts and uncertainty [Reuters report] about how exactly the killing of Gaddafi took place. Colville said that there are four or five versions of how he died but no clear conclusion has been reached. The first image taken of Gaddafi depicts him being captured alive, while the next one shows him dead. In the laws of war, there is a clear difference between someone being killed during combat and being summarily executed. The UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions [official website] said that states need to respect international standards [press release] on the use of lethal force during an arrest [UN News Centre report]. Amnesty International (AI) [official website] on Friday also urged for an investigation into Gaddafi's death [press release]. AI stated that it would be a war crime if Gaddafi were deliberately killed after capture. There are several different accounts of what happened along with two videos of Gaddafi's death, but the factual account of the killing remains unclear.

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2011/10/un-rights-office-calls-for-investigation-into-gaddafi-killing.php

[Joe the Revelator]

69. Thank you for proving the point I was making.

[MNBrewer]

55. Obtuse

[GeorgeGist]

60. Care to provide evidence?

[lunatica]

4. Who is celebrating?

There's a huge difference between celebrating and saying you have no sympathy. Celebrating means dancing around and cheering. Not shedding a tear is nothing like dancing and cheering.

Crap! I hate these posts where someone has to condemn everyone rather than just take on each person individually.

[Bonobo]

5. My first thought was to be gleeful and then I thought about it.

What would I want to teach my kids?

What would I want them to think if they saw someone gloating and happy over someone's death?

That stopped me cold.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. wow-

pretty excellent.



I appreciate your saying this for all of us to consider.

[Bonobo]

79. You're welcome. I hope you learned something. nt

[HopeHoops]

6. To enter the battle field one must be on similar grounds.

[Faygo Kid]

7. Does that include Limbaugh when his time comes?

Hopefully soon, of course. Have to draw a line somewhere, and that's it for me.

[2ndAmForComputers]

8. His death made the world a better place.

Events that make the world a better place are to be celebrated.

Simple as that. [font color="#FFFFFF"]I predict some holier-than-thou poster will attempt a retort and finish it with "simple as that."[/font]

[Joe the Revelator]

10. I disagree with that, silencing a voice in the debates makes the world quieter, to say better is

Hyperbole.. How was today any better for you because Brietbart was dead, compared to yesterday when he was alive?

[2ndAmForComputers]

14. How? Here's how.

[MNBrewer]

51. Did someone silence Breitbart?

[phleshdef]

37. Horse shit. The world is no better or worse today than it was the day before he died.

The guy had a revolting sense of personal character. But he didn't murder anyone molest any children or anything like that. He was an asshole, but he didn't deserve a premature death because of it. This level of hatred should be unacceptable on our side of the fence.

[pecwae]

56. It should be, but it isn't.

That is a tragedy in itself. Today will be just like yesterday and the day before for those suffering the trials of this world. Breitbart's death will affect none of them one way or the other with the exception of his family.

[UTUSN]

9. Neh, it's an ancient argument. We're all a MIX of the whole spectrum of good-to -evil /monster

As for the children, we don't know what kind of father he was. Just performing the biology doesn't confer sanctity on anybody. And there might be some whose public personae are totally different from their private ones, but generally not. What kind of caring and loving would a BREITBART assume in private totally different from his unguarded public hatefulness? HITLER loved dogs and LIMBOsevic loves Xmas, so?!1

Whenever this topic surfaces, as "We're BETTER than that/them," uh, no we're not. We're just human.


Plus, over the past decade whenever I've been/seen the most vicious flaming here at a discussion (OPINION) board, I have often wondered where all the kind threads pleading for civility are.

[Bluerthanblue]

80. we can choose to be better-

whether we do or not is up to us.
If we refuse to try to be different then we condemn ourselves to nothing but more of the same.


Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.” — Martin Luther King Jr.

[UTUSN]

82. (only because this got kicked up) - Um, O.K., so next time I'm flamed I'll expect you to be there to

stop it.

But, really, I love my idealist companions like you, and you are part of me, A PART. But my age and the brutal destruction of idealism by THUGS over my lifetime have taught me never to CHOOSE to be a doormat. And I will tell my loved idealists to snap out of it to the end of my days. (Don't kick it up. I understand what you've said and nothing will change my mind.)

[Luminous Animal]

11. I agree. It's over the top vitriol.

And very depressing.

[Kookaburra]

12. Thank you so much for saying that Joe

I've been appalled by some of the comments I've read regarding Brietbart's sudden death. Okay, he was probably one of the meanest, nastiest people in this country, but he was still a human being. I cannot find joy in his death.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Maybe if you showed as much respect to OWS as you do Breitbart

I could take you more seriously.

Your concern is noted!

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Thanks for the strange stalkerish comment, if it makes you feel better, if a member of OWS were to

Drop dead, I wouldn't be happy about it in the slightest. I dislike ideas, not people.

[Zalatix]

49. Do you dislike the ideas of OWS?

[Joe the Revelator]

84. That's for an entirely different thread.

[markpkessinger]

18. I think we should show Breitbart as much respect in death as he showed Ted Kennedy in his n/t

[gateley]

19. I have to agree with the "lest you become one yourself" reminder. Sometimes it's

just too easy to get into that hate-filled, revengeful mode -- and wallow! At times I really have to make a conscious effort to pull myself back. And this is whether someone is dead or alive!!

I'm not concerned about most of the DUers expressing their positive reaction, so to speak, to Breitbart's death -- these are good people and the catharsis is good, IMO. I just need to heed your warning for myself, so thanks again.

[saras]

20. So don't fight monsters, fight guinea worms, Sacculina carcini, roundworms...

... REAL things with REAL harmful consequences that can be PREVENTED by REAL behavior and not just talk. Because you don't become a guinea worm by fighting them, you become a doctor.

Ideas do not, ever, win over people who do not value ideas. That is, the pen is ONLY mightier than the sword to the LITERATE.

My only goal in communicating with his family would be to communicate that if you support someone materially in a project, then you are partially responsible for the products of that project, and 12 years old is plenty enough to know better.

So if his family was actively working to stop his bigotry and destruction while he was alive, they deserve all our sympathy.

Otherwise, the mature ones are as responsible as he is.

[Joe the Revelator]

35. 12 years old is the age of reason??

Listen to yourself.

[Summer Hathaway]

48. They don't listen to themselves

and that is the problem.

The vitriol being spewed at the man is understandable. The vitriol being spewed at his family is despicable.

[a la izquierda]

21. I'm related to many people who think the very same as Breitbart did...

I hate their beliefs, but they are my family. I have been called socialist, America-hater, commie, elitist, you name it. I take it in stride. My family is mostly pretty ignorant in their beliefs.

I am glad I do not have to listen to his vitriol any longer, I can't understand how someone believes like he does, but I know what it's like to know people like him, and therefore I can't hate him for how he thinks.

[Nye Bevan]

25. I wonder if the "piss on his grave" crowd really, truly feel good about themselves,

at the end of the day. I hope that most of it is people feeling the need to prove their I'm-a-leftie-I-hate-righties bona fides.

[The Doctor.]

27. I'm glad he's gone.

Period.

He has been an agent of chaos and anti-reason for the forces of avarice for too long.

I won't 'dance on his grave', but I will say that the world would be a better place if it were rid of lying sacks of crap like him.

[The Doctor.]

26. A funny thing that.

There is some truth to it, but it must be understood that becoming monsters in order to fight them is part of the history of civilization.

The state is monstrous for a reason. Now we have little daemonic homunculi running free and wreaking havoc on civilization.

We need monster-hunters to stop them. It's just frustrating that the hunts have to be conducted through such civil mechanisms. But civility must persist.

In the meanwhile, if the little demons die, it's hard to get too upset.

[Yo_Mama]

28. Thanks for posting that

I was feeling a bit shaken.

[sadbear]

31. What if he was single and childless?

[Joe the Revelator]

32. The he would have had a mother or father or friend who grieved his death

Either way, he's a man I disagree with, not a person I wish death on.

[sadbear]

33. If I had wished death upon him and he died, I would feel terrible

But since I didn't wish death upon him, there is absolutely no guilt in the visceral feelings I'm experiencing. He brought a lot of pain to a lot of people for his own amusement. To me, that is very good definition of evil.

[Joe the Revelator]

34. Eh, I save that for real monsters

I feel good about the death of those who and maim, not commentate.

[phleshdef]

36. Liberals. We oppose the death penalty, oppose war, call for life saving universal healthcare....

... and all this other stuff as part of a true culture of life.

But when someone from the other side suffers an unfortunate, premature death, we collectively masturbate to his obituary. Disgusting and hypocritical. Anyone getting in on this little circle jerk of hatred has no right to call themselves a liberal. I'm just appalled beyond words.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Well said...it's sad and at its core immature.

[Bluerthanblue]

81. it's a problem of

justus.

We can change this, if we want to. But it requres that we not simply react instinctively.

You said it very well. Thank you.

[Rex]

39. Is that the guy last seen screaming RAPE at an OWS protest?

.

[phleshdef]

40. Right because screaming rape at an OWS protest is worthy of death.

I'll say it a thousand times. He was a bad guy. But he didn't do anything to deserve a premature death. His death is nothing to be happy about.

[Rex]

42. Well you can believe that if you want to.

Kind fucked up way of thinking, but have at it.

[phleshdef]

45. Yea, thinking with my heart and sense of humanity is really "fucked up".

I guess I should apologize for being a liberal.

[Rex]

46. That is not what you posted, but nice try anyway.

[phleshdef]

47. Yes, actually it was. Breitbart didn't do anything worthy of death.

Worthy of a lawsuit or maybe even some jail time, sure. But not of death. His death is nothing to be happy about. If you are happy about it, then I question your mental faculties.

So don't tell me what I posted. Thats up to me, not you.

[MNBrewer]

50. Everyone dies

[phleshdef]

53. No shit.

Most people don't drop dead at 43 years old and unless they did something really violent and heinous, its never a good thing when it happens.

[MNBrewer]

54. Why are you behaving as though he were assassinated, or executed by some unjust system?

He dropped dead. So what? Is it unusual for a 43 year old man to drop dead? Kinda. But again, so what?

Nobody killed him, he wasn't assassinated, or executed. He just died...

[Joe the Revelator]

57. Yeah, fuck life.

[MNBrewer]

58. No, Fuck Andrew Bretbart.

Dead OR Alive.

[phleshdef]

66. I'm not. Why are you just making shit up?

What gets me is people are acting like Hitler just dropped dead. He was an asshole, but he wasn't a murderer. And so it perplexes me when so many so called liberals think its okay to act that way and say shit like "his children are better off now that their father is dead" and other equally disgusting shit that I'd never expect to hear outside of Free Republic (if Breitbart had been a liberal instead of a conservative).

[MNBrewer]

73. Well, to quote you "Breitbart didn't do anything worthy of death."

No, he just died. Nobody killed him. It's not a great injustice.

[Rex]

71. Yeah but see no where did I say I was happy about it

you just walked in and stumbled all over the place with your stupid assumption. Maybe next time you will ASK first instead of looking really foolish.

[titaniumsalute]

76. So what exact age is a "premature death?"

I've seen this phrase a few times now. A toddler? A 5 year old? A teenager? A 40 year old? Etc. Why is it a premature death? I really want to know what age I have to hit and start worrying about a post-mature death.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Some people are happy he's dead, some are not. Who cares either way. The guy is dead and whatever we do or think doesn't matter. In a few days we'll all forget about him and keep on keeping on.

[backscatter712]

41. He was.

But calling Occupiers rapists was one of the milder things he did.

He reveled in turning good people into cartoons and leaving them twisting in the wind before the vultures in Congress.

Breitbart was a fucking psychopath. And to be brutally honest, I'm glad he's dead.

[Rex]

43. I won't dance on graves...to each their own.

Just thought it odd, his outburst and the cops draggin him off while he was yelling RAPE!!! Had no idea he was that mentally unstable. Bad for the body and soul all that anger and hate imo.

[girl gone mad]

61. Interesting to see..

who around here is trying hard to protect the reputation of that POS Breitbart.

[RZM]

62. That's absurd

Nobody's trying to protect his reputation. They are arguing that it's asinine to celebrate somebody's death, especially when the the root cause of their animus against him was POLITICAL.

It's not just the notion of character assassinations and vendettas against people and organizations that people here are reacting to. It's doing all those things in furtherance of the right. That's the real crime.

I mentioned this on another thread, but take Al Sharpton for example. He did some really shitty things in his heyday, including some things that people have criticized Breitbart for, notably presenting misleading information in order to destroy people and careers. If the issue were just the tactics, then Sharpton would be hated here as much as Breitbart was. But we all know that's not the case.

[phleshdef]

67. No one around here is trying to protect his reputation. Stop making shit up.

Show me one post where someone has been trying to protect his reputation.

Out of those of us that have been calling others out for their bloodthirst and hatred, all of us has been very clear that he was a bad dude that deserved legal consequences for the shady smear campaigns he engaged in.

We are just taking a moral stand against those who would take this whole thing to levels of nastiness that is unbecoming of those that would call themselves liberals. People who are posting things like "his children are better off without their father" and shit like that have no business associating themselves with liberalism. The very act of engaging in such hate filled grave dancing is evidence of someone missing the entire point of what the spirit of liberalism is all about.

[Occulus]

77. The author of the OP ***GAVE*** him a reputation as a "journalist" upthread

If the simple act of using the word seriously in connection with Breitbart doesn't protect his reputation, nothing does.

Hatred, yes, and well-deserved. I think we can all agree we hated this man the way we hate cancer: horrified at its presence, relieved when it departs, constantly on the lookout for a return thereafter, and fervently wishing to end it for good. To chide others for celebrating when their hated enemy finally falls forever seems a trifle distasteful, to me at least, but labeling this human reaction (a reaction you claim to dislike) as "liberal", in the manner you and a few others are trying to do, isn't cool at all. You don't define for the rest of us what is and is not "acceptable" to everyone as liberals and progressives. Knock it off.

As to your entire final paragraph, turnabout is always fair play. Oh, and this.

[tk2kewl]

63. when you fight evil with evil, evil wins

[Bluerthanblue]

64. k&R

thank you for posting this.

[leveymg]

65. I thought this was about the Goldberg piece about Obama reassuring Bibi that we would destroy Iran

if sanctions failed to deter them from building a bomb.

That addage by Nietszche seems particularly apt about our complex dealings with the motley beasts in the Mideast.

[bvar22]

68. A man can be judged by the quality of his enemies,

...or those upon whose grave they dance.
The same is true of communities like DU.

Brietbart wasn't worth the time or effort of a grave dance.
His death should be rewarded with obscurity,
NOT a hundred threads dominating the front page of DU.

Who died?
That little weeny?
Who cares?

[sadbear]

70. That's disingenuous

The man left a wave of destruction in his wake. He ruined too many lives to simply ignore.

Hopefully he cannot hurt another innocent victim again. (Even in death, they seem to have some influence over the actions of others.)

[bvar22]

72. disingenuous? .. not at all.

That little asshole is a SYMPTOM,
NOT The Problem.

He is not worth the time wasted on him.

We really have much more serious problems,
like Joe-the-Plumber.

[varelse]

75. so predictable

[Joe the Revelator]

83. Care to elaborate?