Are you still happy that the Bush taxcuts were not ended?

[kentuck]

Granted, it would have been a hardship on a lot of people.

But, if they had been ended, would we now be talking about government shutdowns and raising the debt limit? How much would the deficits have been cut with the entire Bush taxcuts added to revenues?

Did Democrats make a mistake in not ending the taxcuts?

I'll bet the President wishes he didn't have to go thru this ordeal now in front of him? Because it is all about lack of revenue.

[ArcticFox]

1. not happy

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

2. What do you mean "Still" happy?

The tax cuts should have been allowed to expire. Many people on DU thought the same. Not all.

However, the Prez would still be going through the same. I don't think the tea partiers like him very much.

[kentuck]

5. Yes. Many people on DU thought the same.

But we are talking about trillions of dollars so I don't think we would be going thru the same?

[markpkessinger]

17. Exactly . . .

. . . I wasn't at all happy about this from the beginning.

[cthulu2016]

3. Yes, I am, given the alternative

I remain very happy that the deficit has not been reduced by more than it has because the deficit is the only thing that has kept us from disaster.

The Bush tax structure is far from optimal fiscal policy, but it has been better than eliminating the cuts to reduce the deficit would have been.

And given the congress we have, it's not like they were going to pony up any stimulus LARGER than the tax increase to make it overall stimulative.

[truebluegreen]

10. We had aleady passed the woefully-inadequate stimulus,

and extended the Bush tax cuts.
But ALL the tax cuts would have expired Jan 1 of this year if (Congress and) Obama did nothing.

[JoePhilly]

4. Except they were ended for those

Above 400k.

The GOP would be bitching no matter what.

[kentuck]

6. Is that the top 5%?

Or is that the top 1%%

Did that not leave about 95% of the Bush taxcuts in place?

[JoePhilly]

7. For middle class people.

People who could actually use the money.

People who put money back into the economy.

If this is your search for a new outrage, you need to keep looking.

[kentuck]

8. So, you are still happy, huh?

That they have cut tens of thousands of children off Headstart and stopped delivering Meals on Wheels to old folks and are threatening to shut down our government. Good decision, Joe.

[JoePhilly]

12. Did I say that ...

... Or are you stupid??

They would be threatening to shut down the government no matter what.

Your suggestion that they would do otherwise is one of the more ridiculous suggestions I've seen here.

[kentuck]

15. No. I said that.

And I meant it. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

[JoePhilly]

19. If so, I can only aspire to be as wrong

As you so often are.

[kentuck]

20. Whenever you come up with an original idea...

One that doesn't involve degrading the opinion of other DU'ers, then you might have a little credibility. But that is all you ever do. That's your MO.

[JoePhilly]

21. Your idea that the GOP would be less

likely to threaten to shut down the government IF President Obama did "something else", is an idea you should NOT take credit for.

My ideas are my ideas.

You should blame some one else for the idea you put forward in this OP.

[kentuck]

22. Blah...blah...blah...

You make no sense. Are you stupid?

[JoePhilly]

25. that is better than your original OP

[bornskeptic]

23. You can't seriously believe those things would be different just because we let taxes go up.

The sequester was already in place. The Republicans don't care about the deficit. They never did. They only want to destroy the social safety net, and above all the newest component, the ACA. Actually, they love deficits because they are a useful propoganda tool in their crusade to strangle government. Allowing the taxcuts to expire would have pushed back the need to raise the debt ceiling, but it wouldn't have affected the need to fund the government after this month, and nothing would make them let up in their attacks on the ACA.

[kentuck]

24. You are correct that...

..."they love deficits because they are a useful propoganda tool in their crusade to strangle government."

"Allowing the taxcuts to expire would have pushed back the need to raise the debt ceiling..."

But the sequester would not have been in place if the government had raised more revenue.

The present deficit would be cut almost in half at the moment if we had not extended the Bush taxcuts. That would not be an issue for the Republicans.

Also, we would not be cutting food stamps, or Head Start, or Meals on Wheels, and we would not be discussing shutting down the government because of the deficits or the debt. We would not be in this permanent crisis, in my opinion.

You are also correct in that Repubs do not care about the deficit and they would still be trying to destroy the ACA.

[JoePhilly]

26. +100

[FreakinDJ]

27. They never did talk about the Corp Tax cuts Bush enacted that never ended

Bush's 2nd round of Tax cuts enacted Exemptions for corps that put Outsourcing of entire companies into Hyper-Drive in 2003

[grahamhgreen]

9. Yet another things the hippies were right about:)

[haikugal]

41. Thanks Graham....

*hug*

[Proud Liberal Dem]

11. Democrats didn't *want* it. President Obama didn't *want it*

It was part of a compromise.

Republicans would be doing the same stuff they've been doing since Barack Obama was elected President. Anyway, when Bush was in office, deficits didn't matter.

[JoePhilly]

13. +100

[geek tragedy]

14. Yes, because higher taxes is austerity economics.

Just like spending cuts are.

[kentuck]

16. And without revenues...

You will have permanent austerity. Sometimes there are no choices without pain. Just as they are cutting food stamps today, they will find something else to cut next week, because we can't afford it, because we are too much in debt, because we have no revenues. And so on and so on...

[geek tragedy]

29. There wasn't going to be a jobs program

with Republicans controlling the House.

[kentuck]

31. They never meant to compromise on anything.

Without revenues and without growth, there is no option but to keep cutting programs and keep cutting government because trillion dollar deficits are not acceptable to the American people for very long. In other words, keep cutting the Democratic Party and the work it has done over several decades.

[geek tragedy]

44. Actually, voters are a lot more reasonable

on deficit spending than centrist elites in the media are.

[FreakinDJ]

28. Except when those Tax Cuts Outsource badly needed Jobs

then it becomes a JOBS Bill

[PowerToThePeople]

18. was I ever happy about that? n/t

[Recursion]

30. We would still be talking about government shutdowns and raising the debt ceiling

Why wouldn't we be? It's not that much money we're talking about.

[kentuck]

32. I doubt we would be talking about raising the debt ceiling but...

the Repubs would probably still be talking government shutdown because of Obamacare. But it is the debt ceiling that worries the Administration and the markets. That is serious business. If the House tries to defund Obamacare, the President can simply veto it. He doesn't have the power to stop the effect on the markets that a threat of not raising the debt limit might bring.

[Recursion]

35. The debt ceiling is more of a cash flow issue than anything else

I mean, even if we were fully funded we'd have to generate a lot of day to day debt just to do cash flow, and that would require authorization too.

[kentuck]

36. Yeah, we're overcome by the outcome of our income...

[tritsofme]

33. The ten year cost of extending all tax cuts was about $3.7 trillion. $370 billion a year

in a nearly $4 trillion budget really isn't the difference maker you are suggesting, especially weighed against the cost to taxpayers. Moderate deficit spending at today's low interest rates is the obvious solution, not contractionary cuts in either spending or tax increases on the middle class.. It wouldn't stop irrational behavior by House Republicans on the debt ceiling. Raising taxes on the middle class is bad policy.

[kentuck]

34. With $370 billion dollars in revenue this year...

What would be our deficit? It would be lower than the Bush deficits and would take away any justification for the Republicans to complain about deficits or debt. It would make a tremendous difference. Also, the Repubs would have less credibility when they call for cuts in food stamps, Head Start, etc...

[tritsofme]

40. The deficit is not too high right now, it's a false problem. Reducing the deficit that much is bad

economic policy. Just like cutting food stamps is bad policy. There is no need to hit the middle class with a tax increase.

[kentuck]

42. Since when was a $600 billion deficit not that bad??

I can remember when a deficit of George HW Bush of $297 billion was a terrible drag on our economy and was the main reason Bill Clinton won his election in 1992. Remember that sucking sound of Ross Perot??

[tritsofme]

43. The deficit will come in at 3.9% of GDP in 2013, the average since 1980 is about 3.2% of GDP.

We have a middling economy and historically low interest rates, a higher federal deficit is expansionary. Raising taxes and cutting spending is austerity and not smart for our situation.

[LWolf]

37. I was never happy that they didn't end. nt

[TheKentuckian]

38. Of course they are. The folks for the tax cuts were all about them the whole time.

They were ALL about keeping their money and many seeing themselves as upwardly mobile, didn't flinch not a bit at the 400k "compromise".

There was no shortage of hand wringers around the also ridiculous 250k campaign line (often the same folks that would be quick to tell someone making 10 or 11 bucks an hour to cut off their phone and/or internet to pay their tithe to the insurance cartel.

They are fine with austerity, will even push for it. Don't expect too many folks repenting, they got what they wanted.

[arely staircase]

39. I am happy obama ended them for the rich and kept them for working people like me

I make 40 grand a year teaching school. So Obamas tax hike on the wealthy was good. Not raising them on my paycheck to the next existence was also good.