Syria: nearly half rebel fighters are jihadists or hardline Islamists, says IHS Jane's report

[Jefferson23]

By Ben Farmer, Defence Correspondent, and Ruth Sherlock in Beirut

7:17PM BST 15 Sep 2013

Opposition forces battling Bashar al-Assad's regime in Syria now number around 100,000 fighters, but after more than two years of fighting they are fragmented into as many as 1,000 bands.

The new study by IHS Jane's, a defence consultancy, estimates there are around 10,000 jihadists - who would include foreign fighters - fighting for powerful factions linked to al-Qaeda..

Another 30,000 to 35,000 are hardline Islamists who share much of the outlook of the jihadists, but are focused purely on the Syrian war rather than a wider international struggle.

There are also at least a further 30,000 moderates belonging to groups that have an Islamic character, meaning only a small minority of the rebels are linked to secular or purely nationalist groups.

in full: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10311007/Syria-nearly-half-rebel-fighters-are-jihadists-or-hardline-Islamists-says-IHS-Janes-report.html

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. The armed opposition is a free for all of marauders and militias.

A thousand different groups of guys with guns running around. Essentially for sale to the highest bidder.

[Jefferson23]

3. Yea, and we're arming a select group..their choice of words is interesting. n/t

[pampango]

4. Yet this collection of "marauders and militia" commit far fewer war crimes than the "professional"

Syrian army. Kind of hard sometimes to tell whether civilians have more to fear from the religious terrorists from the secular terrorists.

Are the secular terrorists even less disciplined and don't follow orders that would preclude numerous war crimes? Or are they very disciplined but the orders they follow do not preclude the commission of war crimes?

[Jefferson23]

5. They do? Based on what, exactly?

[pampango]

7. The findings of the United Nations and Amnesty International.

While it is clear that the vast majority of war crimes and other gross violations continue to be committed by government forces, ...

In a recent briefing, Summary Killings and other abuses by armed opposition groups, the organization documented dozens of such cases. Amnesty International has most recently documented violations by Syrian security forces and pro-government militias in the briefing, Government bombs rain on civilians, in a long line of reports highlighting targeting of civilians, arbitrary arrest, torture and other ill-treatment, enforced disappearances, extrajudicial executions and other abuses since the start of the Syrian uprising in March 2011.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/keep-international-pressure-against-abuses-syria-2013-03-26

At least eight massacres have been perpetrated in Syria by President Bashar Assad's regime and supporters and one by rebels over the past year and a half, a U.N. Commission of Inquiry on Syria said Wednesday.

The commission's probe highlights the worsening pattern of violence against civilians, including executions and hospital bombings, as the government battles to retake lost territory from the rebels, including Islamist foreign fighters who also have carried out war crimes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/probe-massacres-syria-regime-rebels-20221533

Amnesty International termed it "the vast majority" of war crimes have been perpetrated by government forces. The UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria found an 8-1 ratio of "massacres" committed by government vs. the rebels.

If you have contradictory information, I would love to see it.

[riderinthestorm]

10. Your Amnesty Link is 6 months old - an eternity ago in this conflict

and even that link says that the armed opposition groups are/were rapidly escalating their own atrocities including kidnappings and torture, alongside the whole sale imposition of draconian forms of Islam on the populations they control. The Amnesty Link calls upon BOTH sides to stop the war crimes.

The ABC news story in your second link doesn't indicate what it means by "massacres". Is a "massacre" an entire family killed, an entire village, a tribe - what?

The christian town of Maaloula is getting ethnically cleansed and even though the vast majority of the residents are Christian they are getting forced out of the country by the hard line Islamists. Yet events like that don't seem to ever show up as its own atrocity.

[pampango]

11. If you are conceding that government forces committed the "vast majority" of war crimes in the first

two years of the conflict, I will grant that the AI report is 6 months old.

Here's an AI report from August 29, 2013:

In the absence of an international arms embargo, and because widespread and systematic armed attacks by the Syrian armed forces and allied militias with a wide range of conventional arms have resulted in crimes against humanity, any states supplying arms to the Syrian government should halt such transfers immediately. This includes all weapons, munitions, military, security, and policing equipment, training and personnel.

In addition, no arms transfer should be made to an armed opposition group in Syria where there is a substantial risk of the group committing serious violations of human rights and international humanitarian law. The onus should be on states considering military transfers to armed opposition groups to first ensure the establishment of concrete, enforceable and verifiable mechanisms so as to remove all substantial risks that any military equipment supplied is not misused or diverted to commit or facilitate grave human rights abuses or violations of international humanitarian law.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/syria-possible-international-armed-intervention-after-alleged-chemical-weapons-attack-2013-08-3

Still sounds harsher on the government forces than the rebels.

Here's excerpts from the August 16, 2013 report from the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria

Unlawful killing was perpetrated by government forces as part of widespread attacks directed against the civilian population. The attacks included widespread shelling of villages, the burning of civilian objects, sniper attacks and systematic executions (see annex II). The coordination and active participation of Government institutions indicated the attacks were institutionalized and conducted as a matter of policy. Unlawful killing occurring during such attacks were crimes against humanity. Government forces also committed the war crime of murder, carried out executions without affording due process and arbitrarily deprived the right to life.

​Instances of enforced disappearance have risen exponentially since the conflict began. By placing victims outside the protection of the law, government forces sewed terror among the civilian population. ... Enforced disappearance is used by government and pro-government forces as a strategy of war, to stifle dissent and to spread terror within society. It is committed as part of a widespread attack against a civilian population, with knowledge of the attack, and constitutes a crime against humanity.

Torture and other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment were perpetrated by government forces as part of a widespread and systematic attack directed against a civilian population, pursuant to or in furtherance of an organizational policy. The involvement and active participation of government institutions indicated that torture was institutionalized and employed as a matter of policy. The crime against humanity of torture and cruel treatment was perpetrated with impunity by Syrian intelligence agencies, in particular Military and Air Force Intelligence, as well as the Military Security services. Such conduct is also prosecutable as a war crime.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/RegularSessions/Session24/Documents/A_HRC_24_46_en.DOC

There is much more at the link to the UN agency's report on Syria.

[Jefferson23]

13. Don't misunderstand, Assad is clearly responsible for a great deal of planned murder. What I find

not helpful in looking at this civil war is to suggest as you did earlier there is some level of a bonus
to the Syrian people who are besieged by a lot of crazy who are not Syrian and may not be as
vicious nor as capable in their pursuits as Assad.

Contradictory information is going to be ongoing in this war, most especially if we become
militarily involved..and your information is dated btw.

[pampango]

14. Sorry for not making myself clear. It is not a "bonus" for the Syrian people to have the brutality

of jihadis added to that of the regime forces.

Syrians have been subjected to the brutality of the Assad father-and-son dictatorships for 40 years. The last thing they need or deserve is more misery piled on them from elsewhere, even the jihadis "may not be as vicious nor as capable in their pursuits as Assad.

If we are going to judge some in the opposition harshly for their brutality, it is on fair to use the same standard to judge the other side.

[Jefferson23]

15. I would agree, they're screwed no matter how you look at it. Yet it is more than

precarious to measure that right now. They need humanitarian aid, on a massive scale for the interim.
Unfortunately, there is no shortage of suffering for them.

[Comrade Grumpy]

6. I suspect it's because they lack the wherewithal.

It's a civil war, and I don't think anybody is playing by the Geneva rules.

Rebels have shown they are quite willing to commit atrocities as well; I think they just massacred a bunch of Alawite villagers yesterday.

They don't have the military resources available to the regime, but give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang somebody. Or chop his head off. Or eat his heart out.

[pampango]

9. That may be, but the government deserves no credit for using its firepower (wherewithal) to commit

more war crimes. The argument that the rebels would be just as bad as the government if they had the jets and tanks that the government is a bit of a hypothetical what would happen if ... The reality is that government forces (the "non-terrorists" at least in theory) actually commit far more terrorizing war crimes than the "terrorists" do.

[WovenGems]

2. Really?

Earth shaking. Next we will hear that water is wet.

[ProSense]

8. Again,

Opposition forces battling Bashar al-Assad's regime in Syria now number around 100,000 fighters, but after more than two years of fighting they are fragmented into as many as 1,000 bands.

...as I stated here (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023673130#post2), the piece also states that "jihadists" are only 10 percent.

From the piece:

10,000 jihadists - who would include foreign fighters.

30,000 to 35,000 are hardline Islamists...focused purely on the Syrian war rather than a wider international struggle.

30,000 moderates belonging to groups that have an Islamic character

"Hardline Islamists" by whose definition, and why would that be surprising in Syria?

Also, what about the other 30,000?

The piece states that only 10 percent are "jihadists."

Here is what Kerry stated:

Kerry replied: "I just don't agree that a majority are al Qaeda and the bad guys. That's not true. There are about 70,000 to 100,000 oppositionists ... Maybe 15 percent to 25 percent might be in one group or another who are what we would deem to be bad guys.

"There is a real moderate opposition that exists. General Idriss is running the military arm of that," Kerry continued, referring to General Salim Idriss, head of the rebel Free Syrian Army. Increasingly, he said, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states are funneling assistance through Idriss.

[Jefferson23]

12. If you would like a response, link the orginal OP and avoid linking to other threads

that do not produce the link regardless.