Mormons baptized slain reporter Daniel Pearl

[Are_grits_groceries]

Members of the Mormon Church last year posthumously baptized Daniel Pearl, the Wall Street Journal reporter who was captured and killed by terrorists in Pakistan shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to records uncovered by a researcher in Utah.

Helen Radkey, an excommunicated Mormon who combs through the church’s archives, said that records indicate Pearl, who was Jewish, was baptized by proxy on June 1, 2011 at a Mormon temple in Twin Falls, Idaho.

Mormons baptize deceased Jews and members of other religions as part of a rite intended to give them access to salvation.

But the practice has stirred outrage among some Jewish leaders. In 1995, the church, after meeting with Jewish leaders, agreed to stop baptizing Holocaust victims. Current church policy encourages church members to baptize their ancestors, but does not explicitly forbid the baptism of deceased Jews and people of other faiths.
<snip>
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/02/29/mormons_baptized_slain_reporter_daniel_pearl/?p1=News_links

Leave the dead alone!! Don't add to the distress of those left.

[Behind the Aegis]

1. Apparently, to some "enlightened" people, we shouldn't be offended by this practice.

[Are_grits_groceries]

3. The Mormons are trying

to offer the dead a way to salvation. That is insulting to that person and to their faith IMHO.

If that doesn't bother someone because of their beliefs that's all well and good. That doesn't mean that those who are offended don't have a right to be. Their beliefs are being ignored.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. As I said, I have been told I shouldn't be offended. I have no right to be offended.

[TexasProgresive]

6. It your right to get your bowels in an uproar.

But it really shouldn't matter to anyone that these people "baptize" the dead. It does not affect anyone faith or lack of. I am tired of manufactured outrage over nothing (read, make a mountain out of a mole hill). We have much more important things that need our attention. And I don't think this Mormon practice of baptizing the dead will change the vote of likely Romney voters.

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. Why shouldn't it matter to them?

What matters to people is their business. What matters to you is important in your mind. Why should I make fun of that?

News Flash: Everything we do or believe doesn't have to be tied to politics 24/7. There are other things that are worth our time and ARE UP FOR US TO CHOOSE as we see fit.

[11 Bravo]

10. Sorry, but you don't get to decide what should or shouldn't matter to others.

Rick Santorum has already laid claim to that perogative. Maybe you can apply to be his deputy.

[TexasProgresive]

12. Where did I write that?

I just posted my opinion that I think it is a waste of time and energy. But if one wants to get outraged over this- be my guest.

Many here at DU are atheists and I could envision them scoffing at this practice as being foolish, right along with "magic underwear."

[11 Bravo]

19. Where did you write that? Ummm ... that would be where you typed ...

"But it really shouldn't matter to anyone ..."

Hope that clears it up for you.

[TexasProgresive]

23. That's my opinion not a command telling anyone what to do.

I still don't get why this practice should bother anyone. If you aren't a Mormon then you don't believe in it so it is moot, and if you are Mormon then you would approve.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. It does matter.

More importantly, you should recognize that it matters. You don't have to share the same opinion, but belittling others because they don't share your opinion is just rude. I don't see the big deal in using profanity, but it offends some. I don't share that opinoin. However, I don't feel the need to belittle or chastize them for their opinion.

[yardwork]

37. I'm tired of the phrase "manufactured outrage." It means that some people's feelings matter more

than others. You privilege your feelings by saying that other people's reactions to things "tire" you, and you put down other people by saying that their feelings are "manufactured" when you don't know anything about them.

If you don't like a thread, don't read it. If you disagree with somebody's feelings about something, ignore it.

I doubt you would like it if I picked on your for having the word Texas in your name. By the way, you misspelled progressive.

[TexasProgresive]

42. Someone else who seldom posts has it spelled correctly. So I'm stuck with it.

That said- there is a lot of outrage everywhere and it is not particularly productive. People hate Texas or northerners or whatever. I just don't get why it should really offend non-Mormons what they do as long as they are not committing incest or conducting human sacrifice and a few other things. Now the fact that they fund groups to effect political change (see prop 8) now that's a good reason to trash them. But this is a non-issue in my opinion.

[yardwork]

43. That's what I figured.

The Mormon practice of baptizing people of other faiths is offensive to the people who follow those other faiths. It's just as offensive as hate speech. In fact, it is a form of hate speech, because the purpose is to devalue other people's religious beliefs and cultural history. When the target is Jewish people the Mormons are on especially thin ice because Jewish people are a tiny minority that have suffered from waves of genocide for more than a thousand years, including a big one in living memory. The Mormons should knock it off.

[Matariki]

27. Do you think it actual *does* anything?

Do you think their silly little ritual has any power what-so-ever on the souls of the people they pretend to baptize or convert or whatever it is they think they're doing?

It's arrogant and disrespectful to be sure. But it's essentially meaningless.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. It's irrelevant. It is arrogant and disrespectful, as you also said.

It's not that something happens, perhaps it is for some, but not for me. Do you think anything happens when someone says they're going to "pray away the gay" over a gay person? I have never seen it happen, but it offends me when people say they are going to "pray away my gay." Should I not be offended because nothing will come of it?

[yardwork]

38. "Arrogant and disrespectful" carry meanings.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. Do you know they also Baptized the Earth?

The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.

http://www.i4m.com/think/lists/mormon_science.htm



Joseph Smith was a psychopath according to most studies.

[white_wolf]

40. Just to be clear, Joseph Fielding Smith is not the founder of Mormonism.

Joseph Fielding Smith was one of the Mormon church's later presidents and was Joseph Smith Jr.(The founder of Mormonism) great nephew.

[Scootaloo]

5. Religion is some goofy shit

Doofus #1: "We're going to baptize this ded dude into our religion! He'll contribute!"
Doofus #2: "Noooooo! He might not get the extra special afterlife package our religion promised him!"
Dead dude: "..."

[Are_grits_groceries]

7. That is your opinion.

Religion is based in faith. I don't agree with much of it, but as long as I am left alone, I don't care if people believe in green fairies. When they try to make me conform to their beliefs or push them so fervently I can't escape their ministrations, I have a major problem.

You apparently don't believe. That's fine with me. However, there are a lot of people who would gladly do you harm. They think what you believe is some 'goofy shit.'

Once you begin to discuss anything using your tone and description, there is no hope or any understanding. I don't mean that you have to understand or believe what someone else does. I mean that you understand that there is a freedom of and from beliefs. That goes for everybody.

What you posted as it was stated is insulting to me and probably to others. there are many was to say what you did that doesn't lower the level of discourse to a crude level. You have the right to say it, and say it on any level. It doesn't reflect well on you or your beliefs.

[snooper2]

13. "there are a lot of people who would gladly do you harm"

WTH is that supposed to mean?

And yes, this is a semi-free country so people are free to believe stories written by people who thought dragons were real, and we are also free to say it's absurd.


We don't have to respect somebody's choices for making their econobox look like a ricer or give deference to the mystical stories they want to live their lives around.

[Are_grits_groceries]

15. I guess you missed the deth threats

to the student who opposed prayer in her school. I don't care if anybody is an atheist. There are a lot of people who do.

[snooper2]

18. Did somebody go out and pick the girl up a shotgun?

If teh stupid want to take their idiocy to that level maybe they can earn a Darwin award in the process

[geardaddy]

35. What's with the racist photo?

[Scootaloo]

22. Here's your mistake.

"What you posted as it was stated is insulting to me and probably to others."

This to me, reminds me of a child who is upset that you just sat on their imaginary friend who was just using that chair. "How dare you?! mr. Binky was sitting there first!" Which, by extension, makes this whole thing about people getting upset over other people baptising people who are dead into a wacky ball-pit religion, very similar to third-graders screaming at each other over which pokémon could beat all the others in a fight.

I understand you cannot see the silliness of this whole thing. That you can't understand that even from a position of "faith," it's ludicrous (what, does the Mormon Church have the magic power to overrule YHWH?) However, please don't act as if I have to respect you for your lack of ability.

"You have to respect my opinion that Nazis live in the hollow earth!"
"You have to respect my inability to understand basic biology!"
"You have to respect my belief that Obama will institute death panels!"
See? "I believe something!" does NOT translate into "You have to be respectful of what I believe!"

It looks to me as if you are wasting a LOT of energy and effort on ranting about the idea of someone's immortal soul being sent to the planet Kolob, when you COULD be, I dunno, making yourself a tasty snack or something.

[11 Bravo]

25. Cool, another newbie vying for the title of "Hippest, most Righteous, Lefty Dude on the Internet!"

We haven't had one of those for ... I don't know ... maybe 15 minutes? I can't wait until one of them comes up with some original schtick.
Sure, reflexively shitting on religion and DUers of faith can get one's name on the ballot, but that's just fucking lazy. And predictable. And boring.

[no_hypocrisy]

9. Not only is this unethical by "baptizing" without consent of the subjects,

but it's boosting their numbers and getting "the last word" by having free reign over the Dead.

Have the Mormons gotten around to baptizing Pope John Paul II, Moses, and Abraham?

[metalbot]

16. How is it unethical?

The mormon baptism for the dead is the after-death equivalence of a mormon missionary knocking on your door wanting to teach you about the Book of Mormon. Not interested? They go away. Baptize a dead person? They believe it's up to the dead person to decide whether to accept the baptism.

From the mormon perspective, it would be unethical to NOT baptize someone after death, as they feel this is the only path to salvation for those who didn't join the LDS church while they are alive.

[no_hypocrisy]

21. Baptizing dead people is like shooting fish in a barrel. No challenge and

and no true conversion as the subject hasn't consented.

There is no free will and conscious decision to convert and accept baptism. Plus, the Mormons seem to be targeting famous non-Mormons and Jews generally, like they're imperfect in death if they aren't Mormons. That isn't respectful of the faith the non-Mormons died with.

If the Mormons are on a roll and can convert and baptize people while they're alive, that's another situation altogether.

[TexasProgresive]

26. So do you believe that Mormon postmortem baptism is efficatious?

[no_hypocrisy]

29. The baptism itself doesn't affect the dead.

It brings grief to their families. Kind of taking their deceased loved ones away from them.

[geardaddy]

39. ^This

It's plain disrespectful.

[TexasProgresive]

41. Only if they let it-It has no power except what others give it. n/t

[tanyev]

11. I hope they know about Stephen Colbert's reciprocal proxy circumcision of dead Mormons.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2106049/TV-host-Stephen-Colbert-weighs-baptism-row-converting-dead-Mormons-Judaism.html

[truebrit71]

14. Wait, so if I posthumously baptize my dead dog as a cat, will that have the same effect?

The mormons are just another sect of the folk that think that magical cloud beings watch over their every single move...

The person they are 'baptizing' is dead. Gone. Finished. Kaput. It matters not one whit what these ignorant fucktards think will happen as a result of their actions, the actual person no longer exists....

Don't get me wrong, I think it's comedy gold when these nutter's escapades are publicized, but in the grand scheme of things it's really very sad to think that when these busy-body god-bothering idjits finally pop their clogs they may for a split second finally realize they wasted their entire lives on nothing...

Flame-suit : on :

[hifiguy]

20. Well said. +1 nt.

[Nye Bevan]

17. So why don't the Mormons, every single day, baptize *everyone* who died that day?

Or say "we hereby baptize every human being who has ever died"?

Shouldn't *everyone* get access to salvation?

[HeiressofBickworth]

32. It's a bit more nefarious than that

It's not just the act of baptism but the collection of personal information about the person being baptized. That's how they stuff their database. It is the tenant of their religion that they are to baptize five generations back. That means they have to have all the information, birth, marriage, death, children, spouse(s), etc. As a genealogist, I've used their data and I appreciate it. HOWEVER, once they depart from their specific ancestors, I think they are showing their arrogance and disrespect for the subject. I'm an atheist and I don't believe that baptism of the dead actually does anything but reveal the prejudices of the party doing the act. As I've said a couple of times before on this board, it's the disrespect that offends.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. " it's the disrespect that offends."

THANK YOU!!!!!



Seriously, THANK YOU!!!

[joeybee12]

28. Is it me, or do they really seem to concentrate on converting Jewish people...

Dead Jewish people I mean

[Behind the Aegis]

31. I am not sure. I know they do it to others, as well.

I think the first time this really came up was because they were doing it to Jews murdered in the Holocaust and to many of us, the ultimate inslut was to "convert" someone who died because they were a Jew. I don't know if we are a target anymore than any other religion or not.

[joeybee12]

34. Could we just hearing about them more...

Especially Anne Frank because that was so offensive to do...Of course, one of my thoughts was also that they were doing this because of The Rapture...

[geardaddy]

36. Apparently, they recently baptized Anne Frank

for the NINTH time.

http://www.americablog.com/2012/02/mormons-baptize-anne-frank-again-for.html#