I don't think the economy is doing any better.

[leftyladyfrommo]

And several of my friends have just been killed by the housing debacle.

One friend bought her house for $85,000 7 years ago. It was just appraised at $40,000. She owes $77,000.00. Five houses on her street have gone into foreclosure.

Another friend had her house appraised in 2004 for $150,000.00. She just had it appraised and it came in at $95,000.00.

The house next door to me went into foreclosure. The kid that had it paid $85,500.00 about 6 years ago. It just sold to an investor for $29,900.00. It does need substantial work due to pretty bad water damage but still.

I paid $24,000 for my house over 30 years ago. I think by the time all of this shakes out I might get $45,000. At one time it appraised at $56,000. Three houses right down the street have been foreclosed so far.

The losses are staggering and devasting.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. What state are you in?

Rural, Suburban, or city?

[mike_c]

2. I'm still not sure how I feel about the housing market crash....

I know a lot of people were harmed, and I wish that wasn't so. Still, to illustrate my ambivalence, here's a true story. I've rented the house I live in for 15 years. I have such a great deal with my landlord that it simply wouldn't make sense for me to buy it. However, in 1995 the house was appraised at $140,000. It's in a very small, rural Northern California town but it's right in the middle of town, such as it is, so it's part of several blocks comprised of very similar homes, most built around the turn of the twentieth century and in a range of repair, from remodeled and in great shape (like the one I rent) to pretty dilapidated. But other than current condition, they're all more-or-less similar homes.

As I said, my house appraised for $140K in the mid-90s. By 2005 or so houses in the neighborhood were selling for $350K or more, and most were in worse condition than the one I live in. That's more than double what they'd been worth ten years earlier, and most of those houses were just ten years older. No real value had been added to them. Just price inflation. Today, I gather that while prices have declined somewhat, they haven't declined by half yet, so house prices are still somewhat artificially inflated.

It's hard to see that as a good thing, so it stands to reason that losing that artificial inflation is better. But people get hurt. That's why I'm ambivalent-- I think those artificial prices need to come down a lot further, but I'm sorry for the personal pain that will cause.

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. I'm in Kansas City, Mo.

The house that went from $85,000 to $40,000 is in a kind of rural area north of Parkville, Mo. It's a little older house on probably 5 acres. I can't believe that house ever appraised for $85,000.

The other houses are in city subdivisions.

Kansas City is a whole different world than California. A $350,000 house here is a really nice house in a really nice area.

[dionysus]

17. in western NY 350k gets you a REALLY nice house. in NYC suburbs it gets you a tiny old house.

[earthside]

4. It isn't.

The 'improvements' are an illusion.

The employment 'growth' is mostly in low-paying, non-benefit jobs -- and, sorry, "you should feel lucky to have a job at all" is just another elitist propaganda slogan to keep working folks poor and repressed.

The student loan debt burden now (and will for the foreseeable future) dampen any consumer spending economic growth.

Confusion about Obamacare is causing a slowdown in even low-level hiring -- but the insurance companies are still making out like bandits.

Even with the sequester, the military-industrial-lobbying-complex is transferring massive amounts of wealth from the the working and middle class to the corporate elites.

Any increase in interest rates is going to further stifle the housing industry and probably lead to more foreclosures again.

Walmart is now so big and such a drain on local economies that government services are going to suffer and the Walmart downward spiral on wages is going to create even more poor people. Still, I haven't heard of any anti-trust action planned against Walmart by Attorney General Holder, have you?

Then there is $100+ barrel oil; the bubble in the shale gas industry that will bust soon and mean higher heating costs; higher fees for public school kids; the inflation in food prices; more fees for almost every state and local government service; etc.

If we don't slip back into recession I'll be surprised ... and at best we will have to endure this economic stagnation for years to come.

And now Pres. Obama wants another war.

Oh, joy.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. There are no jobs for older workers here.

I know. I'm one. My friends cannot even get interviews.

And I think the young people - the millenials - are having a really hard time of it, too.

There is just so much ability being wasted. Kids just out of school are finding nothing. All that education will just be worthless in a couple of years.

And the people I know that do have jobs are really finding the corporate world a rough place to work. You simply do what you are told or hit the road. That is no way to try and live. So much pressure. And God help you if you actually have a personality. People are just expected to act like robots. Employees can really only stand to do that for just so long and eventually you just can't take it any more.

That's no way to live.

[phantom power]

6. The economy has improved very little since 2008, for the 99%

For the labor class, employment is by far the most important economic dimension, and we are still far from a full recovery on that front.

[Yo_Mama]

19. Very, very little

Real earning power for most has declined.

It's a painful progression, and for the younger graduates who come out from school with higher debt loads, they will feel the effect for at least another decade, perhaps for the rest of their lives.

Things have slowly been improving, but as of the last CPI-adjusted data, median household incomes in the US were the lowest since 1996:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/household/

Table H-6, All races. Real median household income was literally higher in 1996. That pretty much says it all.

Until we can get employment back up, I don't see much chance of real improvement. More people are working but in a real sense they are earning less, and in many areas it is hard to find full time jobs with benefits at all for many.

I am still confounded by people complaining about food stamps and so forth - when people can't get good jobs, of course they need subsidies.

[duffyduff]

7. It's all by design

The neoliberal politicians and policy makers won't quit until we are "competitive" with China in wages and no benefits but with the same high cost of living we have now.

[bvar22]

8. Wall Street has "recovered".

The top 5% or so are doing REALLY well (the BASE of BOTH Political Parties),
and your politicians and Elite Media Talking Heads are celebrating their "recovery"every day on your TV.

[font size=4]Now THIS is Bi-Partisanship![/font]

But if you Work for a Living,
you are still truly screwed.
Welcome to ANOTHER "Jobless Recovery".
They have this "recovery" scam down pat now.

Older Workers:.Set Back by Recession, and Shut Out of Rebound
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/booming/for-laid-off-older-workers-age-bias-is-pervasive.html?smid=tw-share&_r=3&

40% Of Americans Now Make Less Than 1968 Minimum Wage
http://seeingtheforest.com/40-of-americans-now-make-less-than-1968-minimum-wage/

50% of Working Americans NOW make less than $27,000/Yr.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023308914

Daily CEO Pay Now Exceeds the Average Worker's Annual Salary –
http://thecontributor.com/daily-ceo-pay-now-exceeds-us-workers-annual-salary




76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html


New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955


Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under Obama -- Highest Rate Since 1900
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/corporate-profits-have-grown-171-percent-under-obama-highest-rate-1900

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens

Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc

These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, courts packed with Conservative Corporate Rights Judges, and the marginalization and suppression of any opposition.

And NOW, thanks to the brilliant scam called "The Sequester",
Social Programs are being SLASHED,
and not a single Congress Critter has to take responsibility for VOTING to cut them.
[font size=3]"Its not MY fault.
The "Sequester" cut those programs!!!"[/font]

Besides, once we get the NEW WAR started in Syria,
this will all be "Old News" as the VideoGame footage will dominate The "News".



When the Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the Rich 1% Ruling Class and their Mouth Pieces in Washington,
THEN we can have "change".


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[HughBeaumont]

9. rec'd just for this post alone.

[Scuba]

11. Please post this as an OP.

[PD Turk]

10. I agree

9 months after I was downsized out of my $40k dept managers job in television, I finally scored a $9 an hour job delivering flowers. I guess I should feel lucky I have a job at all, but with a 13 year resume in the broadcast industry, and this is the only gig I've been able to score.... I mean, really?

[uponit7771]

12. Neither do wingers, There are some housing areas that are still doing HORRIBLY but that doesn't make

The overall broad economy as bad as that area

No matter what the facts are wingers wont give Obama any credit, we should be far removed from that

OVERALL.. OVERALL the MIDDLE CLASS (not just the...rich) are doing better than they were right after Bush stepped down.

[IronLionZion]

13. housing prices are local

and there seems to be a trend for folks to move back into cities. Some gentrifying areas of big cities are getting very expensive and forcing lower income workers to move further away from the city for cheaper housing. It also depends on local job opportunities and if the type of people who want to buy homes are able to find the jobs they want and stay there for at least a few years.

[JoeyT]

14. Rich people are doing fabulously

so we're like expected to cheer and pretend like everything is awesome and stuff.

[woo me with science]

21. +1

And what's on the horizon to "help" the proles?

A New Grand Bargain
The Trans-Pacific Job and Wage Killing Agreement
and maybe even a WAR!

It was not a recovery. It was a deliberate restructuring for the One Percent.

[Motown_Johnny]

15. "Bubble" appraisals/values shouldn't count

Sorry but the housing bubble artificially inflated the value these properties.


If your friend is in trouble then she/he needs to look into short selling and starting over.



The economy is doing much better. Construction and auto sales are both way up. Unemployment continues to drop, slowly.

These examples are not an accurate assessment of the economy as a whole.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. Maybe true where you are. Not here.

Housing is picking up and that will help a lot of sectors. But I can't see where people are getting better jobs.

So many people have been out of the market for so long that they are hopelessly out of date on computer skills.

Not a pretty picture.

[Motown_Johnny]

20. I don't know where you are, but....

I am on Detroit's east side.


The odds are that your area is doing better than mine.



I didn't say that people are getting better jobs, only that there are fewer people out work than there were. The jobs pretty much suck, but it is better than being unemployed.

[duffyduff]

18. It isn't because demand isn't there. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. Almost 5 years later, we're still not back to zero in number of jobs, and those that

have been created are a faint shadow of those lost in the collapse in terms of pay and benefits.

But hey, the billionaires are doing better than ever!

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. I'm afraid that the whole structure of our society has changed

and may not ever change back.

I wonder how much of this is due to computers. So many jobs are now just gone because computers do them now. Even jobs that used to be done by pretty untrained people are available to them anymore. Even the simplest jobs need computer savy.