Higher education is in an expensive muddle with too many useless degrees

[FarCenter]

I have found myself reflecting on higher education. This isn't just idle speculation. Education is an important part of modern economies and has a major bearing on how they perform. This is an area in which Britain both excels and does appallingly badly – in different parts, of course.

I realise that what I have to say may tread on a few toes, because I am no professional expert in the field. Still, I do have some basis for comment. Many moons ago, I taught economics at various levels. I now consume large amounts of the output of the educational establishment, in the shape of applicants for jobs at my company. Above all, I am the parent of teenage children and, like so many other parents, am anxious about their prospects.

I think there is too much higher education. Roughly 50pc of youngsters now go to university to get a degree. In my day, the proportion was more like 5pc. (The policemen are getting younger too.) Now doubtless 5pc was too low but I am pretty sure that 50pc is too high.

Things are as they are primarily because education is a part of society where market forces have played little role. Now, regular readers will know that I am not a free market fundamentalist: I recognise market failure and I believe in some forms of government intervention. But when a whole segment of economic activity is scarcely touched by market forces then all sorts of peculiar things happen.

Thousands upon thousands of young Britons have been going to universities to get worthless degrees, which they have somehow thought would help them to progress in their careers. But many have been sold a pup or, rather, until recently anyway, they have been given one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/rogerbootle/10294912/Higher-education-is-in-an-expensive-muddle-with-too-many-useless-degrees.html

[Posteritatis]

1. Oh boy, a "universities are supposed to be trade schools" thread. (nt)

[frazzled]

3. And a British one, at that.

(From the Telegraph yet, but that's another story.) This is relevant ... how?

[Posteritatis]

7. People like any excuse to sneer at non-STEM degrees. (nt)

[SheilaT]

4. No. Trade schools are supposed to be trade schools.

Universities are sometimes trade schools -- think law and medicine -- but the traditional purpose was to fix the class divisions in society. One reason that they were so reluctant for hundreds of years to admit women, because everyone knew that only upper class men were capable of the kind of learning presented in universities. Keep in mind, that lots and lots of people agreed with that idea.

I'm not as certain about universities in Britain, but in this country as they opened up more and more to the masses, especially with the post WWII GI bill, it became more of a rite of passage. If you could stick it out four years and get a degree, than you were pretty much guaranteed a job for life. Of course, it was mostly white men who got those guarantees, because . . . well do I really have to be explicit about the sexism and racism that stayed entrenched?

In this country some enormous percentage of people who graduate high school start college. There continues to be a belief that a degree, any degree will guarantee a job for life. But the world or work is vastly different now. Most degrees that are offered have absolutely no bearing on any possible job out there, and almost no one bothers to let the students know that.

Don't get me wrong. I am personally enamored of learning for its own sake. I've been taking college classes on and off my entire adult life. I eventually got an associate's degree as a paralegal, which opened doors to jobs in that field.

I get so frustrated when I read of some young person being many thousands of dollars in debt to a degree which is entirely useless for gaining employment. I have always told the younger generation that it's fine to go ahead and major in whatever you want, but keep in mind you're going to have to earn a living in the end. So yeah, maybe going to trade school is a better idea for lots of people.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Tuition is paid in currency.

If the degree that is purchased doesn't provide any return on that investment, it's a lifestyle purchase with little to recommend it over a $40,000 handbag.

On second thought, it's worse. You can sell the handbag.

[highmindedhavi]

2. Are kids ignoring the trade schools?

I work at a Union manufacturing plant with hundreds of employees. Over 90% of the Electricians, Mechanics, and Machinists are over 45 years old. My son is enrolled at Los Angeles Trade Tech to become an Electrician, he is 21. The Electricians at work are very happy to hear about his progress, all A's! I ask about their sons and if they are going to follow in their footsteps, but most say no. Why, I asked them, the response always the same, they don't want to do the work.

[jmowreader]

6. Yes, of course they are

The Powers That Be have convinced Today's Impressionable Youth that the trades are beneath them.

I saw a frightening thing last year, just before Christmas: the local free newspaper (the Inlander) had "If you could invent something, what would it be?" as their man-on-the-street question of the week. They asked five people and all five answered, "an app to..." We are rapidly approaching the point where the apocryphal Charles Holland Duell quote "everything that can be invented has been invented" is the truth. Think about it: when was the last time a truly NEW thing was invented? Something that allows its owner to do something humankind has never been able to do before? I can't think of a thing, but I can think of hundreds of inventions in the last month alone that sought to improve on something we already had.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

5. Tuition is more than twice as much as it should ever cost.

In my opinion, I cannot see how ANY college or university education is worth paying $40,000 a year for. Unless it's, for instance, the absolute best medical school in the world that teaches neurosurgery or something, but even still, that's $160,000 in four years.

[Posteritatis]

8. Seriously; US tuition rates are kind of terrifying from this perspective

I paid less than $40,000 total for both my degrees.

[reformist2]

9. More people getting college educations is a good thing! It's capitalism that tells us it's bad.

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. Credentialism is a result of the shift of the responsibility for training onto employees.

In technology, what you learn in college has a shelf life of about 10 years. Once that 10 years is up, it is incumbent on the worker to get new skills. Training is your problem because the employer doesn't have any motivation to train you - there are plenty of new graduates who do have that education and want your job.

Most help wanted ads require college not because there's any relationship between college and the requirements of the job, but because it's a useful way to winnow down the number of applicants.

[FarCenter]

13. In technology it takes about 5000 hours to become competent, and half is useless in 5 years.

So you need to put in about 500 hours / year keeping up.

Usually this is outside of the job, unless you skillfully manage job transitions to new tasks that improve your skills. Employers generally aren't willing to pay for expertise that is short lived and makes their employees more valuable to other employers. What they will pay for is training specific to the firm and which is not transferrable to the job market.

[hunter]

12. Every degree is useless.

The entire damned economy, and especially our notions of "productivity" are damned useless.

Fuck markets, fuck it all. Your job is useless. Human beings are an over-population of stray animals in need of a good spay and neuter program.

Seriously, most people toil at useless jobs.

Beyond basic food, shelter, and medicine, it's all pretty useless.

There. Is that better?

That's the trouble with your line of inquiry. There is no bottom. The only natural truth is that we are animals like any other. Our population is growing exponentially and we will solve that problem ourselves (unlikely) or Nature will (likely). We won't like nature's methods.

Personally I think education ought to be free. Going to school has a light environmental footprint compared to other human activities. The less people "contributing" to our fossil fueled industrial society, the better. Wouldn't it be great if nobody wanted to work in a coal mine or build and maintain coal fired power plants? Wouldn't it be great if nobody wanted to build internal combustion engines or drill for oil?

I think so.

Let them teach English! Let them play in their organic gardens! Let them miss work days because they were up all night having well-protected sex!

Economic productivity as we now know it is a very bad thing.

Education is a good thing. It will be an educated person, probably somebody way out in left field studying something "useless" who will lead us out of this mess. Or we will follow those responsible for this mess to lead us further down this path to hell.