The Police Are Not Your Friends

[damnedifIknow]

"As children, we were taught that the police were our friends. We could go to them, confide in them, if we were lost or in trouble, and they would help.

Although I have been practicing law more than 25 years, I never cease to be amazed at the number of people, accused of a crime, who seem to cling to that childhood belief and who actually believe that they can confide in the police, and that if they just cooperate with the police, the police will help, and protect, them and everything will be just fine. A lot of them actually believe that the police will work for them -- to prove them innocent.

Today, many police departments resemble para-military organizations. They are like "little armies", although in major cities like New York, Chicago, Houston or Los Angeles, they are not very "little" and can rival the manpower of an army combat division!

They tend to be staffed by former military personnel and they operate with the organization, the discipline, the training, and, most importantly, the mentality of an army.

Don't get me wrong. The police are necessary and provide an invaluable public service. We all need them. We all depend upon them. Further, a good, honest, professional, well-trained police officer is worth his, or her, weight in gold and is an invaluable asset to any community.

There are, however, good cops and bad cops just like there are good doctors and bad doctors, good lawyers and bad lawyers. And, even bad cops are not necessarily "bad" every moment of every day.

Unfortunately, some police officers these days seem to share the belief that they are engaged in a "war": a war against crime. They tend to share the view of the soldier; that it is "us against them"; that they are the good guys and that the "enemy" must be defeated, must be destroyed, at all costs; otherwise, civilization, and life as we know it, will be destroyed! "

http://www.lawinformation.net/criminalreport3.html

[TalkingDog]

1. Time to trot this out again: Never Talk To The Police

[Logical]

6. Best video ever! Should be shown in schools! n-t

[Earth_First]

56. I'm sure that video is great!

...and I'm completely in line with never talking to police or law enforcement officials; however the professor in that video sounds and speaks like the voiceover for a car dealership. Speaks in too many small sentences, way to fast...unwatchable in my opinion.

[TalkingDog]

69. I agree with you on his delivery. Very staccato. But, for the young and/or naive

worth it to suffer through.

[Neoma]

95. He could be manic.

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. excellent video

[nolabels]

90. Double tripple kick, kick, kick

Please note: if you are reading this and have not watched this, please do. I have been hanging around D.U. for more than a decade and have not seen any more important information than this for one's personal safety.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. Officer Friendly morphed into an imperial storm trooper. With your tax dollars.

[Logical]

7. So true!! n-t

[liberalhistorian]

105. Well, when they're now killing really old people in

nursing homes, for Christ's sake and there have been three such cases just in the past month, then you KNOW we've got a real problem. One particularly awful one in Minneapolis involved a 96-year-old WWII vet with dementia who'd refused, out of fear and confusion, to go with paramedics for medical treatment when the staff called them and the idiot paramedics called the police even though the staff asked them not to do so. They came into a nursing home with fucking RIOT shields on scaring the hell out of the residents. When the man started having a meltdown, which was understandable given the circumstances, the staff pleaded with the police to allow them to calm him down and defuse the situation, because they knew what to do for him, but the cops held them back and continued to yell at the man, confusing and scaring him all the more.

The police then claim he picked up a knife from the kitchen area and threatened them and staff and residents with it, but the staff witnesses claim that that's bullshit, he didn't do that and they were saying that to cover themselves. They tasered him several times and he fell back and injured himself in addition to the injuries from the tasers; he died later that night in the hospital Another case involved an 80-something with advanced dementia who was confused and having a meltdown, so what do the cops do? Why, shoot him, of course, what else were they going to do? You thought they were going to actually going to use their superior strength and numbers to just calm him down and get control of the situation like cops often used to do? HA. Why do that when they can just as easily shoot their metal toys.

The latest one was a man who was ONE HUNDRED SEVEN YEARS old and being evicted; marshals burst down his door and shot at him after claiming that he shot at them first. Like they couldn't subdue a 107 year old in a fucking chair. It's now shoot first, don't bother to ask any questions later and don't question us at all. Some would probably shoot a baby to get it to stop crying.

[Savannahmann]

3. One of the last people I'm likely to trust/believe is the police

They are corrupt organizations where nearly every single sworn officer is also more corrupt than the fellow they are arresting. I always begin with a simple premise, what lie is the cop telling us now? In nearly every circumstance, that is the perfect point of view to begin from.

[therehegoes]

4. Especially when they make mistakes, arrest you, tamper with evidence, and conspire...

Texas at its best.



http://friscopaul.blogspot.in/2012/03/2.html#links

http://friscopaul.blogspot.in/2013/08/the-latest-tape-authentication-results.html#links


http://friscopaul.blogspot.com/2013/08/more-crazy-stuff-from-judge-teresa.html#links

[Turbineguy]

5. Maybe we need classes or seminars

on how to live in a police state. If you look at youtube videos of criminals being chased down, they all know what to do. Professional or experienced criminals know how to deal with the police. Those of us who do not commit crimes on a regular basis do not. Many of us for example, might find it repugnant and undignified to lay down in a dirty street with our legs spread and our hands behind our backs. Many of us may foolishly try to explain that the police officer is making a perfectly understandable error of mis-identification. We need to learn that police are never wrong. Some of us may even get upset over getting beaten up or tazed. Some of us don't relish getting shot dead in a fusillade of bullets. Clearly we need to learn to enjoy being arrested and degraded. We also need to learn how to deal with the other aspects of the so-called justice system. A system where those who enjoy locking up and punishing people can satisfy their secret urges. We have to learn how to behave in places were we are put together with predators who, if they only had slightly more education would have become investment bankers. Some of us harbor quaint notions like "innocent until proven guilty", when it's really, "guilty until a more likely suspect is found".

There's a demand that the market place could satisfay.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

24. Rec

[99th_Monkey]

35. Most every city has a CopWatch group, or at least that used to be true.

I live in Portland OR, and I think ours is still functioning.

Anyway, CopWatch has been doing great work in the trenches for decades
with police, calling for public accountability, police review boards and such.
They also often do trainings and have printed materials on how to deal
with police.

[Bay Boy]

8. Well I hope parents still tell their kids

that the police are still their friends. That they can go to them, confide in them, if they are lost or in trouble, that they will help.

On the other hand if you are suspected of a crime and the cops are interviewing you; what you say can and will be held against you.

[Dragonfli]

13. That is a very dangerous thing to advise a child! Irresponsible even.

They can not be trusted not to react badly, they are very volatile individuals that usually make things worse.

[Bay Boy]

15. That is a disgusting thing to suggest...

....Serious? Tell a lost child not to approach a police officer? I'm just stunned.

[Dragonfli]

17. They are dangerous, it is a simple fact. I agree that it is disgusting that it is a fact /nt

[backscatter712]

62. Especially in New York and the other areas of the country that are the land of Stop and Frisk.

The cops are always looking for a pretext to help them fill their arrest quotas.

[Nye Bevan]

44. Actually, it is a bad idea to tell a child to approach a police officer if they get lost.

See the book "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin deBecker.

The reason is not that a real police officer would not help a lost child, but that a child finds it hard to distinguish between a policeman and a security guard. And many security guards are ex-cons and bad people.

Far better is to tell a child to approach an adult woman, any woman, if he or she gets lost. Maternal and protective instincts will almost certainly kick in, and the chances of a randomly chosen woman being a sex predator or child killer are infinitesimal.

[nashville_brook]

58. +infinity

[Cronus Protagonist]

75. + one brazillion

I'm going to continue to promulgate this concept. It is a valuable piece of advice.

[Dragonfli]

73. It seems strange you think my favorite group is the BOG as I am banned from posting there

For posting verifiable proof that they did not like, the fact that the proof was true and easily verified appeared to be the reason for the "banishing" oddly enough.

So newbie, do you usually go around introducing yourself with completely absurd accusations and nastiness in defense of characters notorious for their enjoyment of gang assaulting handcuffed individuals that can not, and are not allowed, to defend themselves?

Or are you just in love with me personally and don't quite know how to express your feelings?

[arcane1]

76. Technically, your profile does show that as your "favorite" group

It's based on the number of posts in a certain period of time, not on personal preferences. It's likely that this poster has been here before, and clicked on your profile before posting.

Not that I'm defending the freshly banned dipshit who insulted you

[Dragonfli]

79. Oh, I didn't even notice that (don't check my own profile), I stick to GD mostly, only go elsewhere

from the greatest or front page and usually without noting what forum or group it takes me to.

That makes sense as I was banned from the BOG not for going there to start a fight but by landing there accidentally and not realizing certain proof and opinions were against the group charter. I suppose the conversation string added up or something thus causing it to be listed as my favorite.

I would not have broken their rules willfully as I believe groups have a right to form and choose how and what the wish to discuss within their own group. I don't even begrudge the gunners their gungeon, such groups offer a safe haven to the good and bad alike and to refuse one group we would have to refuse them all.

[arcane1]

81. That happens to me too, since I'm on the Latest page all of the time.

Posts from every group show up there, and I rarely pay attention to which group a post is coming from.

The "Favorite Group" thing isn't really all that useful, since I can post a half-dozen things in a group over a 3-month period, and it somehow becomes my "favorite"

[arcane1]

74. Welcome to DU!

FYI: It's generally frowned-upon to call people names here.

[jtuck004]

18. I bet some still do...

But these days, perhaps, not as many in Chicago Public Schools, and a few others, given that 75% of those arrested are black. Seems unlikely black kids are 75% worse than the white kids, yet black kids go to jail more frequently for the same behaviors...

Read all about it, Here.

[Bay Boy]

21. Fine...

...lost children should be instructed to avoid all police officers and go find a crack dealer, pimp or a pedophile.

[TroglodyteScholar]

31. Are you kidding?

Those are the only options you see? Truly?

Naive at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

[Mariana]

68. That's a perfect example of the cops' attitude, isn't it?

Everyone who isn't a police officer must be a criminal.

[A Little Weird]

38. Some of the parents I know tell their kids

Some of the parents I know tell their kids to find a "mom" if they get lost - a woman who has kids with her or someone who looks like their mom or their friends moms. Obviously that's not foolproof either but I guess that's what repeated stories of police brutality have brought us to.

[Nye Bevan]

46. The best strategy is to tell a child to ask any adult woman to help, if they get lost.

There is effectively a zero chance that a randomly chosen woman would happen to be someone who will cause harm to a child. And as I posted above, the big problem with telling a child to approach a cop is that children might mistake a security guard for a cop, and many security guards are ex-cons and bad people.

[A Little Weird]

49. That's true - and it's a simpler message to remember.

I think they say to look for a mom because very small kids often don't distinguish between teens and adults. But in reality, almost all teen girls would likely be safe to go to as well.

[jtuck004]

45. Uh, those are found among police officers too, along with murderers and rapists. So yeah, it's

a little complicated.

Tell the kid to seek out a cop, and they could wind up in the car with the deputy here that pulled out his wanker and proudly waved it at the young woman barista in the drive through at the coffee stand. He's back on the force now...which I don't find all that comforting.

[Iggo]

59. Aw.

Come on.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. The Blacks tend to live in areas where the cities have been gutted by shipping manufacturing jobs

and factories to foreign countries.

Factories are gone.

What factories are left are at risk, particularly after Obama signs the TPP.

I'm not a person of color (except when turning red from being in the sun), but I can see the policy of shipping manufacturing jobs from American cities to foreign countries as being the most racist thing that has happened to Blacks in this country since the Civil War and Jim Crow days.

[TroglodyteScholar]

28. Terrible advice

The police are no citizen's friend. They only see two kinds of people: cops and perps. Not OK.

[blackspade]

77. Nope.

I told my teen that cops are not their friends and are not to be trusted.
My tween is almost ready for that talk as well.
You should never confide in the cops. Period.

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. K&R I'm glad to see your very first reply. DON'T TALK TO COPS!

Once you've given them the required information, Keep your fucking mouth shut! Do not consent to anything they ask, you can't stop them from doing whatever they're going to do, but do not consent to it.

Record any/everything you can. It is best if they don't know they're being recorded. Most cop cars have recording devices in them, keep that in mind, and do not consent to anything.

You shouldn't be hostile, stay calm and comply with orders they give you, but...

DO NOT CONSENT AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!

[Bay Boy]

10. "What way did the guy who stole your wallet go?"

"I've been advised not to talk to you officer"

[Egalitarian Thug]

11. You be sure to call me when that happens...

[TroglodyteScholar]

32. Find me a single cop who gives a shit about a stolen wallet.

I'll be waiting.

[Live and Learn]

78. +1 nt

[markpkessinger]

84. Exactly -- see my response at #83 n/t

[treestar]

85. Well you do expect them to solve crimes, don't you?

Maybe the wallet was not a good example? How about a murder next door? You aren't going to tell them if you saw something?

The problem with this thread is that it's too black and white. Kids should be able to feel cops are their friends. Grownups should realize they don't have to talk to them, and should get a lawyer first if they think they may be under suspicion.

Assuming every cop is corrupt is silly. Even assuming a majority of them are is. It smacks of some bitterness from people who had unpleasant run ins with cops because they did indeed break the law.

[quakerboy]

88. I'm pretty sure your "bad lawbreaker dosen't like getting caught" brush missed the mark.

For instance, I've never been arrested, never been in trouble. Ive had exactly one less than stellar interaction with police, and even that was minimal, they were just kinda unpleasant in demeanor toward us at an Occupy gathering. I'm white, ostensibly middle class, well spoken and a calm pacifist. I'm generally their kinda people. So I'm pretty sure your "bad lawbreaker dosen't like getting caught" brush missed the mark.

Your scenario is tougher to decide than you might think. By stepping up and saying something, you put yourselves on the radar. Just as easily as contributing to the finding of said hypothetical killer, you may well end up accused yourself. And while I agree that kids should be able to feel that cops are their friends, the problem is Cops AREN'T their friends. I guess its a judgement call you have to teach your kids. Is the situation you have encountered more or less dangerous than dealing with the police?

I would argue your assertion Re corruption is incorrect. Assuming every cop is corrupt is in fact borne out by the facts and logic. Its fairly easy to work through.

First, Lets hit the dictionary for the meaning of Corrupt: 1. guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked. 2. debased in character; depraved; perverted; wicked; evil. 3. made inferior by errors or alterations, as a text. 4. infected; tainted.

Question 1) How many crimes and misdeeds are committed by Police officers?

When you agregate up the various things, it really seems to add up. If you are paying attention, there are regular unjustified shootings. Police brutality and beatings of civilians. There are cops using their power to obtain sexual favors by coercion or outright force. From what I have heard its not uncommon for a small amount of drugs found on a suspect to disappear into an officers personal possession. What are they going to do, complain? But that is still theft. On the flip side, planting that baggie on the next collar you dont like. Maybe because they are the wrong race. The Statistics show Racism is clearly rampant in our police forces nationally. and that leaves out outright bribery, the intimidation attempts we are hearing more and more of, and I am sure I am missing whole categories of things. When you add up all of these things, I think its fair to say you will find every moderate to large department has an officer (or several) who does one or more of these things at will.

Question 2) How many officers are aware and say/do nothing?

Think back to Tony Bologna in NYC, pepper spraying the girls. That was clearly a misdeed. He even managed to tag other officers in his haste to punish them. There were dozens of officers on the street seeing what happened. How many of them stepped forward to testify, pushed to cleanse their department of a "bad apple". Apply that to the cops who witness any of these other issues, who personally know that one cop in their precinct who is uncontrovertably corrupt. How many of them step forward and put a stop to it?

I believe, by definition, that is corruption. If they have set their tribe above the law, above reproach, and above all other citizens, and are ignoring lawbreaking and abuse, that is corruption in itself. And by my observation, it has taken over and infected virtually all of the police force. I believe they even have a term for it, and are proud of it. Blue Line.

[treestar]

96. Why would a cop harm a lost child in any way?

There have to be cops; any civilized society has them. This idea they are inherently bad is strange.

What if one is asking you questions because you might have evidence of some terrible crime? Are you against prosecution for crime? I don't think many crime victims will back that one up.

[quakerboy]

98. The problem is not the concept of a police force

The problem is in the current execution of policing.

For instance, I have never had any issue with the Canadian Police. Maybe they too are changing, as the rest of their country seems to be, but in my limited experience most of them are quality law enforcement officers. Same could be said of the UK police force.

And the US does need police. They are not inherently bad. But just because a person has a jacket with "POLICE" across the back does not mean they are inherently good either. I would imagine that the Russians in 1980 were not highly fond of their police force. Nor the Iraqis's in the 90's. Or the Syrians today.

I believe the system that we have in place currently is poorly constructed. It has grown to be a self perpetuating power in itself, rather than a group of civil servants out to serve the populace.

If one is asking me questions wanting evidence of a crime? I dont know. It probably depends on the situation. I'm a middle age white guy. Im probably fairly safe with them. But you never know. I do know if I was not as white as I am, I would definitely be walking on eggshells in that situation.

We need a police force. But we do not need an unaccountable heavily armed and organized gang that calls itself a police force.

[treestar]

99. Then perhaps there are lessons to learn from how Canadian and UK cops operate

Part of our problem is all the damn guns. Could be those countries don't have as many armed citizens.

They shouldn't be another armed gang, but then the big cities can have some awfully tough neighborhoods.

There was a case in Philadelphia where a cop went into a donut shop which was in the middle of being robbed. The robbers shot and killed the cop.

So the siege mentality they may get can have some basis. The solution to that is another issue. A lot of things have been tried.

[quakerboy]

104. Perhaps in how the countries operate, as well.

Could be that the guns our citizens have is not the core problem, its the guns our law enforcement have that present the real problem... Though we do have a plethora of guns and an inordinately high rate of shooting deaths in general in our country.

As to your particular comments:

Anyone entering an establishment being robbed runs a risk of being shot. Not just cops. And tough neighborhoods are no excuse for abandoning their duty as peace officers. If we didn't have "tough neighborhoods" we wouldn't need nearly so many officers in the first place. But those tough neighborhoods are exactly where the ball is getting dropped the worst. And police are often not improving those neighborhoods with their presence. Instead they have just become one more danger in the wasteland.

I think a little research will prove that the siege mentality has no basis. One can make a strong argument police are under decreasing threat from other citizens(including those in tough neighborhoods), not increasing. Heres one bit of data, the numbers of officers killed each year through history:
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html.
And keep in mind, this is national, and should be compared to population growth to see whether the danger of being an officer is increasing or decreasing. Also to be considered, this is all deaths, not just those who have been shot. So it includes "boating accidents" and car and airplane crashes. so, for instance while 120 officers were killed in 1012, only 49 were shot. In the whole country.

In comparison, as best as I can determine, there is NO comprehensive study or record of how many people were killed by police in any given year. Best I can come is an article about how approximately 20% of those that the LAPD shot dead were unarmed.

When the police become a separate power, rather than a part of our society, when backing their fellow officer (right or wrong) is more important than facts or laws or morals, that is a problem. And that is where we are as a country.

How do we get back from there? I honestly dont know. We need a serious amount of accountability put back into the system. We need to alter the drastic power imbalance between a policeman and any other civilian somehow. Maybe some laws, maybe tossing out whole departments and starting over? I really dont know how we can come back from the destructive road we are on in this regard. But glossing over the problem, pretending our police forces are mostly ok wont do it. That much I am absolutely certain of.

[TroglodyteScholar]

89. "Should" and $1.50 will get you a Coca-cola

I do not trust cops, and I've certainly never seen one give a shit about anything shy of murder.

Yes, we "should" be able to trust the police. But experience has taught me that it's safest not to. The few good ones can't offset the harm done by the majority of them who are knuckledragging ego trippers.

[treestar]

97. There has to be some way to enforce the law

Society requires that. Police perform a certain task. Would you not call 911 if someone was breaking in? If you don't trust cops, why call them if someone does something to you?

[TroglodyteScholar]

100. The only time i would call the police...

...is if my life was being actively threatened or I needed a police report for insurance purposes. Otherwise, they're about as useful as teats on a bull.

[markpkessinger]

83. Here's how this played out in real life for me, as opposed to your Ozzie & Harriet scenario

I was robbed, at knife-point, in 1987, in NYC. I was during the middle of a workday, in midtown on the East side (54th between Lexington and Third Avenues. I was on my lunch hour, and there was a light rain coming down. As it happened, although it was a busy time of day, there was almost no one on that block of East 54th Street. I was walking along, kind of absorbed in my thoughts, when suddenly I was bumped from the side -- quite startling, since it wasn't like it was a crowded sidewalk where people didn't have room to pass one another. Next thing I know, this guy is accusing me off breaking his wristwatch with my umbrella, and demanding that I pay for it. When I refused, he pulled out a knife and demanded my wallet; of course, I gave it to him. He ran off, and I went back to my office, thoroughly shaken by the experience. My boss told me I should immediately contact the police, so I did. I called the local precinct, and began to explain what had happened. The response? "So, what would you like us to do?" Huh? He continued, "Look, if you need a police report for insurance purposes or something, then you could come into the precinct and file a report. Or we could send an officer to your office, but I can't say exactly when that will be. But it's not as if we're going to be able to find the guy or anything." Gee, thanks officer.

[Dragonfli]

12. Some of us have known that since childhood

I was not fated to grow up in some cul de sac American dream of "privileged civilians", perhaps pampered, well to do, suburban children can go to cops for help (or are silly enough to believe they can), but poor kids know they are often much more dangerous than the drug dealers in their neighborhoods, at least those thugs mostly attack each other over "business" and are not concerned with beating the crap out of you for the crime of being a young teenage boy that "looks like a scumbag" as cops like to refer to the civilians "under their care".

The worst beatings of my young life were at the hands of ironically named peace officers, not for breaking any laws, or engaging in threatening behavior, but because my cloths were thread bare, my hair was long and they were bored. They appeared always eager to engage in what they seemed to enjoy the most, beating the crap out of poor teenagers too young to have the physical ability to fight back effectively who also lacked the social status to fight them back after the "fun" by seeking justice within the system.

They did so enjoy the beatings, laughing and joking the entire time, they are subhuman and completely lacking in empathy. I am much older and grey now but I still reflexively sense them as vile enemies that are dangerous and to be avoided by all civilians. Perhaps it is worth noting that even though I was attacked by them as a young teenager and categorized by them as a "scumbag", I had it much easier being a white "scumbag" than than my darker neighbors in my mixed neighborhood. They were lucky to grow up and get out of there alive IMO, because ethnic "scumbags" were the preferred prey of these callous maniacs.

This was all well before the militarization we see today, but they still think we are all "scumbags", they still love using that word when describing civilians, they are not at war with criminals, in their minds they appear to be at war with all the civilians under their care, perhaps not in places of wealth, but I have no way of knowing that, having never been from a place of wealth and lacking therefore their experiences interacting with "peace" officers.

[tblue37]

51. Cops love to harrass and assault skaters (skateboarders), too.

Many of my college students who skateboard have had such run-ins with cops, usually when the kids were around 14 years old, despite being entirely innocent of violating any law or even any unspoken "rule." Those kids are often white and often comfortablymiddle class rather than poor, but as skaters, they are assumed to be fair game for harrassment and assault by cops.

[Dragonfli]

63. I am curious as to what information is available about the psychology of those drawn to the field

What is it that makes them so angry?
Why do they appear to enjoy causing pain to others?
What is the root of their paranoia that forces them too see all civilians as probable enemies and definite "scumbags"?
What is the root of this strange obsession with harassing and or beating teenage boys, that is very common among them?

There are other important questions I am sure, but the answers to these would go a long way towards finding a way to screen for such negative outlooks and behaviors during the application process, important if we want to protect ourselves and our teenagers from unsavory characters that are placed in a position of authority.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

80. The answer, in part, is the use of illegal drugs. Steroids.

Among other things, it causes a mental problem called " 'roid rage."

[Dragonfli]

82. I wonder if it would be possible to require those issued weapons and authority to submit

to random drug screening, to discourage and hopefully end the use of drugs that result in violent behavior by those we trust with such weapons and authority?

After all, most of the rest of us are expected to submit to random tests for the use of drugs during our off time that do not result in violent behavior, cannibals use on weekends for instance is grounds for dismissal from a large majority of companies even though it does not appear to affect what one does at work in the slightest.

[Half-Century Man]

14. My sleepily little city of Beloit Wi just got an armored gun truck

I saw it drive in and confirmed it at the police station. It is an armored humvee with a gun turret on it and POLICE painted on the side. It looks like the same turret configuration which takes the automatic grenade launcher or ma deuce in the center position with accompanying light machine gun to the side (as I has seen on turret videos online and on Nat geo). I could not closely examine it, I guess my vision could compromise the protection offer by the kevlar.

For the life of me I can't understand why my city, or any city police department for the matter, would need a PRG resistant armored vehicle. I do not remember any raid in the USA which resulted in the confiscation of an RPG ever.

[BlueJazz]

16. Thank you for posting this. Wonderful info.

[Zorra]

19. I stay away from cops and criminals equally. Cops are just as capable of causing me harm

as criminals are.

A cop or a criminal, (often one and the same), can put you in a world of hurt in a heartbeat when you have done nothing wrong, and are just living your life minding your own business.

It's a stone cold fact.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

20. Don't even try to be nice, avoid contact.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/video-released-of-firefighters-arrest-after-he-says-he-waved-at-officers


Wave at an officer while being black is now a punishable offense.

[SamKnause]

22. Cops; friend or foe

Gangs in blue armed to the teeth with military toys.

What could possibly go wrong ????

We no longer have police (to serve and protect) in the United States.

We have militarized the police and the powers that be keep pretending nothing has changed.

Our 'police' now have the same mindset as the military.

We the people are the enemy.

[etherealtruth]

23. I am a white, 51, college educated, suburban mom

... never been arrested, never been suspected of a crime.

One would think I (or folk just like me) would be the last person to agree with the OP ... let me assure you, I agree with the OP 100%

"us against them"; that they are the good guys and that the "enemy" must be defeated, must be destroyed, at all costs; otherwise, civilization, and life as we know it, will be destroyed! " ... If you are not law enforcement you are the "other" (read enemy).

sad that I believe this will all of my heart

[Igel]

33. I have known students like that.

Personally, they've always helped. Not "privileged." Grew up working class. But not in a high crime area. Got me to school, helped when I was lost, helped with a flat.

Got tickets, but that's Igel-breaking-the-law, not Igel-needing-help. They have two roles.

Many kids miss this point. One was terrified when a walkie-talkie was heard in the hall of school. "It's the police, I'm frightened of them." She was scared silly. Never had a run in with them. All hearsay. And it was an assistant principal getting in place for managing the halls a few minutes before classes ended, not a policeman. Mindless fear, that's the ticket.

Another kid was panicked when he was pulled out of class by an officer. He came back 20 minutes later with his laptop. He'd filed a theft report with a principal and he was called down to identify (and reclaim) his computer. He had a look of intense cognitive dissonance on his face when he returned. It was his first "run in" with the cops.

There was a stabbing at a school near where I live last week. One I almost taught at. One student dead, others injured. The complaint was that no or few police were on campus. The previous complaint--the police presence intimidated kids. As a result it took a long time for the police to show up. Stabbed kids were at the school clinic being treated before the police got to the scene. And then instead of finding witnesses nearby they had to keep the kids in lockdown to sort out what had happened. Parents were pissed off because the school did what parents had wanted. Did the parents accept this? No. Of course not. They emote and think with their glands and brain-stem. "Give us this! ... What, how dare you give us this when we want that! Incompetents!"

[SamKnause]

48. In total agreement

I am a 60 year old white female.

I have never been arrested, or suspected of a crime.

I am in 100 percent agreement with your assessment.

The nonchalant attitude, given the rise of police brutality in this country, terrifies me.

[etherealtruth]

60. if folk like us fear and distrust the police ...

... can you imagine what the experience of young men of color is?

[SamKnause]

64. Reply

No I can not.

I really don't understand the explosion of hate around the globe.

I expected more going into the 21st century.

[DallasNE]

25. And Just To Prove It

We have this. Down in Florida (where else) police directed a random woman to scoop up the horse manure from one of the horses they were riding. And they could care less who all was looking on. This is how they show us that they are the good guys? Too bad the video didn't start several seconds sooner. No word on whether the offending officers were disciplined.

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2013/09/fort_lauderdale_police_horse_crap_woman.php

[darkangel218]

26. Isnt our state the bestest of them all?

[DallasNE]

29. Have You Seen Any Coverage Of This story? n/t

[Politicalboi]

52. Being Florida

They would probably euthanize the horses for shitting on the street instead of firing the pigs that did this.

I hope she has a good attorney.

[99th_Monkey]

30. Moyers coined a term recently -- The Mercenary Class -- which I think is very helpful

the 1% can't dominate us without them. This idea has been around awhile.
Jay Gould, 19th Century Railroad tycoon said this about his striking workers:

"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

[Egalitarian Thug]

39. +1 for you & K&R for the thread.

[nolabels]

107. That is why things like labor unions and collectives get set up with traction

No doubt we have to add a few more societal operational appendages and regroup the ones we have while we are taking our country back. We are a more and growing group and the mercenary class shrinking and getting older. It won't be long for us, the ones who the crap is being done to, will be out thinking them and then to be outmaneuvering them. The thing to watch for is when that critical mass becomes more and more aware of what is being done to them and done in their name.

[99th_Monkey]

112. Problem is, the USA's endless 'War on Terrah'

keeps sending trained killers home to find jobs, and guess which
kind of jobs they tend to gravitate towards? you guessed it: police
work.

So there's been a steady supply of younger people who are already
trained militarily (not necessarily the same as police work). This
is worsened by the fact that during past 20 years police forces have also
been massively "militarized" (with riot gear, tanks etc.), which dovetails
with all the fresh new recruits from ME battlefields joining US police forces.

[AngryOldDem]

34. This goes double if you're homeless; triple if you're African-American and homeless.

I saw local cops escalate more situations with this already vulnerable population than I care to recall. I remember they once tag-teamed a young woman to the point where she was near hysterics; I tried to calm her down and was more or less told to fuck off (by them, not by the woman). I think some cops in that district just lived to come in and stir shit just so that they could arrest somebody -- anybody. And don't get me started on all the uncalled-for, unprofessional comments I heard.

I accept the police as part of a so-called orderly society. But respect them? Any more, they have to earn it with me.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

36. Have you seen the latest from the ABA which questions whether crime labs can be trusted?

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/crime_labs_under_the_microscope_after_a_string_of_shoddy_suspect_and_fraudu/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email&utm_source=maestro&sc_cid=130904BK

The police are not your friends, nor are those who work with them. All too many of them treat the general populace as the enemy.

[gopiscrap]

37. No kidding

I have been saying this for years. Almost every pig I have ever met is an arrogant, power hungry fucker! With an anger problem.

[leeroysphitz]

53. +1

[gopiscrap]

54. thank you!

[darkangel218]

101. "I see bacon, i see pork

Watch out cop, I've got a fork!"

[MineralMan]

40. I'd say that would depend on the circumstances.

I've called the police a few times to report something illegal going on. One time, it was some drunk guy pounding on my kitchen door at 2:30 AM. Each time, they've responded and dealt with the situation intelligently and calmly. The drunk guy got put in the patrol car and delivered to his home a couple of blocks away. Another time, a K9 unit went through my neighbor's house after his 11 year old daughter and a friend came over to my house and told me they thought someone was inside their house.

On neither of those occasions were the big city cops anything but polite and businesslike as they dealt with the situation.

I've also been stopped by the police a couple of times for traffic issues. I talked to those cops, too, and they let me go without a ticket after I talked to them.

So, I'd say that the advice in the OP probably isn't good advice in all situations.

[Rex]

41. Sure they are! Haven't you ever seen the COP show?

Where they ALWAYS find marijuana in a car somewhere and arrest the driver? They are always real nice to them as they push their head down getting in the back of the squad car!

[cartach]

42. Seems that most of the replies

are from defense lawyers and/or those who have been on the wrong side of the law.

[Comrade Grumpy]

47. Or from people who have had to deal with surly, aggressive cops for whatever reason.

[backscatter712]

61. The defense lawyers in particular are the experts we should be listening to. n/t

[Dragonfli]

66. I have seen NO replies by people that have relayed a view from "the wrong side of the law"

Not that I would not find such input relevant to the conversation, we should know how they treat actual criminals as well as how the treat regular citizens, I would like for instance to know if they torture criminals they arrest in he act or not.

Still I am curious where you see these criminals in your post, I missed their perspective and can't find a one of them where you see a majority.

[etherealtruth]

71. It is astonishing to see what others glean from the written word

[ThePushmataha]

43. Small county's can be the worse.

Small County's can be the worse. Here is couple of examples of in the South.

[link:

|

[MrMickeysMom]

50. Flame away, but you haven't distinguished what police are and are not...

1) They are not to be confused with your friend, but a relationship is necessary, so some of the comments here are bullshit.

2) They are not to be given information, due to the nature of what can incriminate you.

I say this from experience at the local level of knowing more of them on the force in my town than most, understanding that some are absolute assholes, but that more are not, and are, in fact GOOD officers.

I get a little tired when threads, or posts cannot distinguish that much, but what am I talking about? As both presenters in this video stated, we're stupid, sometimes.

[tabasco]

55. Bullshit

Cops don't have anywhere near the discipline of the military.

Or the physical fitness.

[al_liberal]

57. Are Firemen/women all that's left?

When I was a kid we were taught to run to the boys (and gals) in blue if we were in trouble. Now they all dress for war, have way more weapons than they need, treat citizens as subjects, and Taser/pepper spray people indiscriminately.

I've been expressing to my daughter, now 8, since she was tiny that the police are not her friends and they are not people that she can trust. What a fucking shame that this is what our country has become, that law enforcement itself is no longer trustworthy.

[ileus]

65. What about the ones that are my friends?

I currently only have 6 or 8 LEO's as friends, but there was a time in my life it was about 30-40...

[Uncle Joe]

70. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, damnedifIknow.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

86. K&R

Policing is racket, indispensable to the 1% and establishment, and they know it. They used to be more concerned about image, but now the gloves are coming off, and brass knuckles are visible.

[SlipperySlope]

87. I don't believe in good cops or bad cops, I believe in quantum cops.

What is the probability that this cop will be bad in this interaction?

[DiverDave]

91. If a "good cop" doesnt tell about bad cops, he is BAD

I heard it from the horses mouth, if you tell on bad cops, when YOU need help, they turn off their radios.

They are all in it together.

[sorefeet]

94. Thats the big one

If a cop knows of a crooked cop and doesn't say something, then he is just as bad or worse. And guess what, they all know of the corruption and don't say shit. So as far as I am concerned then none of them can be trusted. When young, strong, healthy men can't control a 95 year old veteran without shooting him with a shot gun bean bag, we have a huge problem. They are called PIGS for a reason.

[KinMd]

92. Cops are like Lawyers...

nobody likes them until they need them

[darkangel218]

103. Not really.

We pay the copsters salaries. They should behave better, IMHO.

[KinMd]

109. I agree they should obey the law and their own regulations

[1awake]

93. Having been one

the "us against them" or feeling that society as a whole is the enemy of sorts is very prevalent, and encouraged.

[darkangel218]

102. You were a copster?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

106. Dangerous, stupid, evil, incredibly harmful, wicked, idiotic bilge.

The more people who are taken in by this garbage, the more crime there will be, the more criminals will get away with it, and the more tension between police and communities there are.

The majority - a very large majority, albeit not all - of the police are good people doing a good job.

Please, please stop spreading this muck - it will do an awful lot of harm to anyone whose mind you poison with it.

[Mariana]

108. Sorry, but the multitude of videos of brutality and abuse

show us that just isn't true. In just about every single one of those videos, what we see is that if there are other cops on the scene, they do nothing whatsoever to stop the abuse. Sometimes they just stand around and watch, but most of the time they actively participate. Surely, if the large majority were good people doing a good job, we'd see many more episodes of police officers stepping in to protect people from their abusive colleagues. But, that almost never happens.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

111. How many is a "multitude"?

In particular, what do you get if you divide a hundred million (the number of police officers in the USA, give or take a power of ten) by a multitude?

And what can you deduce from this number about the wisdom or otherwise of basing your opinions upon these anecdotes rather than on statistically significant evidence?

[RedCappedBandit]

110. Go to a cop forum and see how they refer to the rest of us.

I'll never trust them.