The Senate is supposedly voting this week. If they vote to authorize,

[cali]

do you think that President Obama could (sort of) follow in Clinton's footsteps and launch a military strike before the House votes?

He could use Senate approval as cover and say after the fact that the matter was too urgent an issue of national security to wait on the House (they're reportedly not going to vote next week).

anyone think that this is a possibility?

[jessie04]

1. One can only hope.

nt

[cali]

2. well of course war mongers hope for that

that's what panting bomb loving war mongers do.

[gopiscrap]

5. Thank you my thought exactly

[jessie04]

12. No, I was against any involvement in Syria....

until he chemically nuked his own people.

Innocent people being gassed and convulsing and chemically asphyxiated by a (chinless) dictator is immoral.

[Reiyuki]

15. dead is dead

"You can't use chemicals to kill your own people, you have to do it organically. America and the world want to make sure Assad only uses locally sourced free-long-range lead ordinance." - Jon Stewart

[RetroLounge]

21. "chemically nuked"

Oh, that made me WARGASM!!!!

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. you are walking right up to the line....you know that right?

http://defensetech.org/2013/08/30/air-force-developed-bombs-capable-of-destroying-syrias-chemical-weapons/

[YvonneCa]

57. So you solicit opinion and then attack those who give one? That's...

...interesting.

[NuclearDem]

4. I'd thought you'd be against a vote that would deploy you or put you in harm's way.

Oh, wait.

[RetroLounge]

20. WARGASM!!!

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. Back to sleep.....snoregasm!

[RetroLounge]

46. Keep trying

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. trying what?

go back to sleep then...its easier for you...

[RetroLounge]

50. Such a vanilla reply...

or more beige-like, actually.

Get your war on!

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

53. vanilla...it's not just a color...

it's a taste and smell.

back to sleep and you don't have to worry your little pointy head.

[RetroLounge]

54. Bland color, thin, vapid taste and smell

Wait, what are we describing again?

Oh, yeah:



RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

55. Really....cause Granny told Ellie May to dab some behind her ears...drives the menfolk crazy.

back to sleep RL...

[RetroLounge]

56. Well, you give that a try, and let me know how the menfolk reply

You know, Obama, Kerry, and the rest of the war-merchants.

I'm sure just a dab of vanilla will get their missiles all hard and flying for you.

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. "warmer chants"?

LOL...I like chanting in warm weather!

http://defensetech.org/2013/08/30/air-force-developed-bombs-capable-of-destroying-syrias-chemical-weapons/


go back to sleep and miss it!

[RetroLounge]

61. More war porn, spanky?

When are you enlisting?

thought so.



RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

64. Are we ramping up enlistment...havent read that anywhere...

My father was career military sooo...and I am too old now....did you serve?


thought so...

[RetroLounge]

65. Is our father posting on DU and calling for war?

He probably knows better.

You? Go enlist Spanky, I'm not the one calling for war.

Chickenhawk.

RL

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. My dad is actually a teabagger...

I am not calling for war either...rather I want the rest of the chemical weapons taken out...if that defines chickenhawk then so be it..

'Intense heat'
For years the United States has been seeking to develop warheads that could be used to destroy chemical weapons stocks without the dangers described above.

So-called "Agent Defeat Weapons" are probably available to US commanders. They operate in various ways but the essential feature is intense heat - it is like a super-incendiary bomb - that destroys the chemical or biological agent in situ.

[MineralMan]

43. Yes, we heard you the first time.

Very clever...

[RetroLounge]

45. Yeah, I thought so, and coming from you?

I take that as a badge of honor.



RL

[MineralMan]

47. Yah, well, posting your

"discovery" all over DU is a badge of a different type.

[RetroLounge]

49. Do you haz a sad?

poor thing.



RL

[MineralMan]

51. No, I don't have "a sad."

I have a boredom.

[RetroLounge]

52. Well, a wargasm always brightens one's day.

enjoy it!

Obama made it ok!

RL

[BeyondGeography]

3. Would hope that he waits at least until the UN preliminary report is out

after which he can perhaps build more legitmacy w/Europe. Next Sunday is the date that has been reported:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014588603

[karynnj]

13. + 10000

Given how close the timing is - the vote itself should wait - as well as the President should wait.

[Bjorn Against]

6. If he does there will be calls for his impeachment

There is no threat to our national security, Syria has not threatened to attack us. It seems highly likely that the House is going to vote No and any attempt to go in before they vote will be seen as a rejection of Congress. Considering the large majority of people want Congress to vote No such a move would infuriate people across the political spectrum and there would be immediate calls for impeachment hearings.

[cali]

7. I agree with that, but I think he might risk it.

[YvonneCa]

62. He risks nothing. There are already calls for his...

...impeachment. Does another one matter?

[reformist2]

8. Yep, from people all across the political spectrum.

[Raksha]

67. Exactly! That would be a serious abuse of power,

not some "birther" bullshit. And not about blowjobs or what the meaning of "is" is.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. they can call for it....but it wont convict him...

[Bjorn Against]

34. He will get impeached and go to trial in the Senate

He may be able to survive the Senate trial but he would suffer severe political damage as would all the Senators who defended him. I would predict that a strong majority of the country would favor impeachment and that support for impeachment would be bipartisan, people don't want this war and we will be outraged if he bombs without Congressional approval.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. and he will win....

there is precedence..

[Bjorn Against]

37. No he will not win, he may be able to finish his term but his reputation will be forever destroyed

He would be lucky if he could maintain a 25% approval rating for the rest of his term if he did such a thing, many of his past supporters would ditch him if he acted so arrogantly.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. You think he cares that you "stopped loving him"?

do you think that is what motivates him?

[Bjorn Against]

39. It is not about my opinion, it is about the opinion of nearly the entire world

Nearly the entire world opposes him on this issue, there is very little support in the US for bombing Syria and even less support internationally. Nearly the entire world opposes him on this, it does not have anything to do with my personal opinion.

[CakeGrrl]

9. He's not as dumb or evil as some of you think

It would be really stupid to engage Congress and take any action BEFORE the vote came down.

He did NOT have to go to Congress in the first place. But they bitched and moaned, so he put it to their vote.

Why?

Because their votes will be a matter of record.

Oh, and why would a bloodthirsty warmonger wind DOWN wars when he could be bathing in blood?

Pretzel 'logic' at work around here.

[cali]

10. I don't think that would be dumb, nor do I think he's evil

and Bill Clinton did something similar with regards to bombing Kosovo- though that was a NATO operation.

In other words, there's some precedent for it.

[CakeGrrl]

14. More will be known after his Tuesday address

Though I doubt anyone who's already convinced that he's a walking pile of lies will bother to consider what he has to say. A lot of minds are shut like steel traps here from the threads I've seen.

He isn't going to take any action without evidence (that people here love to deny exists) or accountability from Congress. He knows far better than anyone here that the GOP knives have been out for him. To speculate that he'll do some of the things that people believe he'll do implies a lack of thought or smarts on his part.

[karynnj]

11. Not unless something happens in Syria to make it urgent

Obama has taken that argument away by saying that delaying to go to Congress could be done as there is no urgent need.

[jessie04]

16. Why Sarin gas is so much fun.

◦Runny nose
◦Watery eyes
◦Small, pinpoint pupils
◦Eye pain
◦Blurred vision
◦Drooling and excessive sweating
◦Cough
◦Chest tightness
◦Rapid breathing
◦Diarrhea
◦ Nausea, vomiting, and/or abdominal pain
◦Increased urination
◦Confusion
◦Drowsiness
◦Weakness
◦Headache
◦Slow or fast heart rate
◦Low or high blood pressure
◦Loss of consciousness
◦Convulsions
◦Paralysis
◦Respiratory failure possibly leading to death


Now, imagine its your loved one and we did nothing.

[cali]

17. why cruise missile blasts are so much fun:

blast waves- horrific injuries and death

shock waves - horrific injuries and death

fragmentation- horrific injuries and death

fire and heat- because it's so much better to die being burned to death than from sarin

blast wind- carrying all kinds of projectiles that cause- yes, you guessed it- horrific injuries and death






http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/syria-weapons-depot-blasts_n_3689653.html

[jessie04]

19. One is against innocent Syrians and the other is against Assad's army....

tough choice.

[cali]

23. once again: Innocent civilians will be blown to bits. Not tough to understand

sick shit panting to bomb

disgusting.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. and ^^^ that can continue for long periods of time...

and those that don't die...are still faced with serious medical conditions...

[jessie04]

40. Oh, who cares !!

It's not like its anyone's kid here.

**sarcasm**


And to think a few tomahawks could ...could... Put a stop to it. With almost zero chance in American lives.
And we ain't even tryin'
Where the hell did our morality go?

[cali]

41. oh who cares about killing kids with OUR FUCKING BOMBS?

and anyone who actually believes that "a few tomahawks" could put a stop to the misery and death and violence or even potential gas attacks, in Syria, is either hopelessly delusional or hopelessly stupid.

[rusty fender]

42. Both!

[jessie04]

44. Then I guess I'm "hopelessly stupid"

So don't respond to every post I make then.

[BlueCheese]

18. I think in Clinton's case the House had no plans to vote.

They didn't vote until a month later. Here, if the House is about to vote, preempting it with a strike would be hugely controversial.

[davidn3600]

22. So he asks congress for authorization and then goes and starts bombing before they can vote?

[pampango]

68. That seems to be what Clinton did. Well, the senate said Yes, NATO started bombing, then

the House said No.

Despite the support of Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois, the House defeated on a 213-212 vote a Senate-passed resolution endorsing the NATO airstrikes in Yugoslavia. The vote was not binding but was politically significant.

The lack of political support for NATO's air war does not require Clinton to withdraw U.S. forces from the conflict or halt American participation in allied airstrikes but reflects concerns in Congress over the president's handling of the military confrontation with Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-04-29/news/9904290179_1_nato-spokesman-jamie-shea-tie-vote-air-war

[bhikkhu]

24. I don't think there is the same level of urgency in Syria

In Kosovo they were literally rounding people up, executing them and burying them in mass graves. In Syria I don't think there is a great danger of that (at least that's not a part of the accusation, as far as I've heard), so likely not the same urgency at all.

[merbex]

26. Exactly: it's not genocide. It's indiscriminate killing among factions in a Civil War

I do think that's a big difference.

[merbex]

25. If he gets advise to do that, he will see a bill of Impeachment in the House guaranteed

I wrote earlier that I bet the Bill is already written, ready to be filed.

It would be serious and not a 'Move On' moment.

He will have instituted a Constitutional crisis for who? John Kerry? The Iranians? The Israeli government? All to prove what? That we know how to launch cruise missiles?

If those people I listed don't know by now that we know how to do that, some would say we excel at that, then what is the point?

He needs to respect the American peoples' elected Representatives - THAT"S how people across the world want to see America act - lawfully.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Read some on the technology please...

http://defensetech.org/2013/08/30/air-force-developed-bombs-capable-of-destroying-syrias-chemical-weapons/

[bluestate10]

35. Impeachment will fail in the Senate and republicans will pay hell during the 2014

midterms. Impeachment hearings will run deep into 2014 if not through the midterms, sane republicans don't want that because that party will be forcibly removed from lots of seats by voters.

[merbex]

60. That's your position? That when calls are running a 100-1 against involvement it's ok for him to act

without House approval which WOULD lead to a bill to begin Impeachment hearings,because the Senate won't convict him?

And that somehow, when people have been calling and registering their opposition to this Syrian strike that seeing the President willfully disregard the peoples' Representatives the people will somehow will blame Republicans?

I don't think you fully understand how many Democrats would join in that an abuse of power and would vote to impeach. Voters would not blame the GOP on this at all - what I am struck by is - people know enough about the Constitution to know that the power to authorize war rests with Congress.

[maddezmom]

30. Yes, I do think it is a possibility

But I don't think he should. He asked for congressional appoval and he should stand by his own request.

[bluestate10]

31. I think he can because there was precedent. nt

[Aerows]

59. If he does

then Impeachment will be back on the table, and no amount of "it won't happen" screaming will have made a damn bit of difference.

If the House says no and he does it anyway, same scenario. We the People overwhelminly don't want it after we have been hounded by austerity every step of the way to recover the economy while harming it, and it's a slap in the face that suddenly there are funds for war.

It isn't about gas attacks. It's about a gas pipeline and everyone knows it. Fuck Exxon for a change. Exxon has certainly fucked over the American people enough that they deserve to feel a little pain.

[Rex]

63. No.

It is their job, he will wait until they reach a final vote. Then when they vote majority 'no', he will not strike or send in forces.