Iowa grants gun permits to the blind

[The Straight Story]

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Here's some news that has law enforcement officials and lawmakers scratching their heads:

Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind.

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it's a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.

On one side: People such as Cedar County Sheriff Warren Wethington, who demonstrated for The Des Moines Register how blind people can be taught to shoot guns. And Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act. That federal law generally prohibits different treatment based on disabilities

...

Other states have indirect requirements that could — but don't automatically — disqualify people who are blind. That includes Missouri and Minnesota, where applicants must complete a live fire test, which means they have to shoot and hit a target.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/08/iowa-grants-gun-permits-to-the-blind/2780303/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28USATODAY+-+News+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Goo

[joelz]

1. Seems

like learner permits to drive might pass the bar.

[pintobean]

2. Will Stevie Wonder boycott?

[The Straight Story]

3. Dunno, he might give it a shot

[Paladin]

4. There have been at least 3 threads over the years in DU's Guns/RKBA group.....

....advocating gun ownership and usage by the visually impaired. I've got all the sympathy in the world for the blind, but I don't want them driving school busses, I don't want them performing neurosurgery, and I don't want them utilizing firearms.

[MH1]

13. Utilizing firearms under certain conditions might be fine, BUT

this article is talking about carrying in public. What the hell is a blind person going to do with their weapon on a public street?

[Hoyt]

5. Most folks who seek permits to carry guns are blind in one way or another.

[The Straight Story]

10. "Most"? A little biased there. I guess you personally know a lot of people, or

Your personal religious belief is that people who don't hate what you hate are blind.

[MH1]

14. To be fair, "most people", period, are "blind in some way or other".

As in, "most people who seek firearms carry permits are either male or female".

There is probably some technical term for that rhetorical device, but I don't know what it is.

[The Straight Story]

15. Not sure in what context you are using when you say 'blind'

The people who live on farms and use them, the people in sport shooting competitions like the Olympics and such, those who hunt and help keep deer populations and such in check, military and police folk in reserves who like to keep up with their skills at a shooting range, folks who want some form of protection from home invasions (you find quite a few people using them that way in the news, we are not allowed to post those positive stories in GD however, but a google news search shows plenty - like the woman who was being beaten to death with a hammer the other day and neighbor with a gun saved her life).

And then there are people who just love to shoot targets for fun (it is like a video game but outside).

That covers the majority. The minority acquire weapons to use for criminal reasons. They are allowed all the press here (much like the fundie muslims on rw sites, you don't dare post something positive about them some places because it does not puff up the bias people have and deflates their hate bubble).

I think the truly blind are the ones who do not care to hear both sides of an issue because it challenges their personal views.

[enlightenment]

6. It's getting easier and easier to

figure out where I'd like to visit.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

7. In some states, "they have to shoot and hit a target"? That would disqualify some LEOs.

Unless they fire enough rounds.

Some examples,

"In Florida the Metro-Dad police fired about 1,300 rounds for effect between 1990 and 2001. Their hit ratio was 15.4%.

"The NYPD, when counting shooting at bad guys and dogs between 1994 and 2000, got 38% of hits at distances of six feet or less. When you went past six feet but stayed with less than 21 feet the hit percentage went down to 17%. http://barkgrowlbite.blogspot.com/2013/06/cops-are-piss-poor-shots-in-life-or.html

And who can forget the Dorner-related incident in which one of the women started screaming ‘I am just the newspaper woman, I am the newspaper woman!’” http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/23/local/la-me-ln-women-shot-by-lapd-during-dorner-manhunt-get-big-payout-20130423



The cops fired over 100 rounds. And didn't even hit a "gray" truck.

[rurallib]

8. If they can shoot a gun

then they should be able to drive a truck and make a living. Makes sense to me.

[The Straight Story]

9. Question becomes: can a blind person OWN a car or gun, or should we deny them that?

You don't have to shoot a gun or drive a car to be allowed to own one.

[Igel]

11. This is a squirrelly article.

It's mixing things.

The statute requires a permit to acquire a weapon. If you want to have your teenager trained to use a weapon and want to buy a weapon (in some circumstances) you need a permit to acquire it. Same for just having a collection. A permit to aquire is different from a concealed weapons permit.

The permit to carry is a concealed weapons permit--but also includes carrying it in the trunk of your car, if loaded and under some other circumstances.

The law is poorly written. I have problems with those with severe visual impairments being able to concealed-carry in public a weapon that they can't safely use--but there'll always be somebody getting a permit and doing something just because they're allowed to.

But the news article isn't clear. After mentioning "acquire or carry" it only talks about "carry", while the quotes are ambiguous.

[Eleanors38]

17. I note that live fire tests required for CCW can prevent the visually-impaired

from obtaining a permit. In Texas, the blind may hunt which anticipates lawful gun ownership. Here, the blind are assisted and told when to fire at game, presumably deer. I don't know what if any techs are used, and if these requirements only apply to public lands hunting.

I understand Ray Charles as a boy used to ride a motorcycle thru Tallahassee, following the sounds of his buddy's vehicle traveling ahead.

On edit: The blind can hunt in Texas since 2006. Typically, an assistant verbally guides the blind hunter who uses an otherwise illegal (for hunting) laser site, and tells him/her when to fire.

[liberal_at_heart]

12. I'm going to have to tell my husband about this. He is legally blind and has said in the past he

does not believe he should be allowed to have a gun. My husband is an incredible man, but being legally blind does without a doubt create problems for him. He is always bumping into things, stubbing his toe, tipping things over on the table. There is no way he would ever try to carry a gun.

[jmowreader]

16. Jane Hudson is full of shit

The ADA uses a "readily achievable" standard for the removal of barriers to access by the disabled. Firing a gun requires the ability to see; there is no readily achievable way for a person who cannot see to fire a gun without killing an innocent bystander or causing damage to property.

YES, you can teach a blind person to shoot a gun on a range; NO, what happens on a range doesn't always equate to what happens in real life. (How many of the 4,804 American troops killed in Iraq fired Expert last time they qualified?)

[tblue37]

18. Kansas does, too. nt