(Updated) Child dies from gunshot at Yellowstone National Park campground

[Robb]

Last edited Sun Sep 8, 2013, 07:55 PM - Edit history (1)

A child died as a result of an incident at a campground in Yellowstone National Park on Saturday morning.

A press release from park officials says that rangers responded to a 911 call from a woman at the Grant Village Campground, who told the emergency dispatcher that her young daughter had shot herself with a handgun.

Resuscitation efforts by responding emergency medical staff were unsuccessful.

Read More: http://www.kxlh.com/news/child-dies-from-gunshot-at-yellowstone-national-park/ , http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/13079.htm

By the way, it's only been legal to carry guns in Yellowstone since 2010. Gun rights advocates stuck language into the otherwise unrelated Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009 -- overturning the Reagan-era rules prohibiting guns in national parks.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Oh goddamn it.

[Doctor_J]

2. Since it passed in 2010 I guess the Dems were the ones who passed it

what a legacy.

[Paladin]

3. Like the guy in that gun militancy speech says:

"My rights trump your deaths."

[Duckhunter935]

4. more really big news

We do have two forums for gun related issues. One side can get away with posting in GD.

Very sad, little facts yet.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. Two forums?

Hmmm. I only trashed one. Thanks for the heads-up.

[HERVEPA]

53. Tough crap!

[etherealtruth]

5. Sad and sickening

[NYC_SKP]

7. Rules against guns in National Parks might have nothing whatsoever to do with this.

Laws don't save people, but things like gun safety training, jobs, hope, awareness, education, these things might make a difference.

[Logical]

8. "Laws don't save people"?? WTF? n-t

[NYC_SKP]

9. The best thing would have been safety training for the child and/or parents.

An educated child wouldn't have picked it up to begin with.

It's unclear what age this girl was and where this gun came from.

If you think a law against guns in parks actually magically keeps guns out of parks, then I can't help you.

So, yes, laws don't save people in cases where people disregard them or are otherwise negligent.

Although if there had been a law requiring gun safety training for all youth, that might have saved this girl.

I'll give you that.

[Kolesar]

10. Your guns don't belong in my National Park...eom

[NYC_SKP]

14. They aren't my guns. But it is my national park, thank you very much.

I don't have strong feelings either way about the law, I never said I did.

What I said and will repeat is that the only law that would have had a chance of preventing this would be a law requiring teaching children to NEVER touch a gun if they find it.

Laws prohibiting guns in parks?

Do you really think people are going to NOT go into parks with their guns because of a law?

Laws are made to be broken by, get this, lawbreakers.

[No Vested Interest]

36. Don't know how much you know about children and their reasoning capacity,

but their brains are not sufficiently developed to fully understand and unerringly act upon that which they are taught.

They may respond as one would wish most of the time, but it only takes one act of forgetfulness, misunderstanding or risk-taking for tragedy to happen.

It is the duty of all adults to protect all children.

[NYC_SKP]

38. Quite a bit, actually, as K12 education is my world.

I think I mentioned above that safety training for adults and children would do more than rules or signs that prohibit guns in parks.

Actually, I think that kids would learn more easily to NEVER touch a gun than would stupid parents learn not to leave one around.

We don't know exactly what happened in this particular case, yet.

[No Vested Interest]

39. Stupid parents we can not always protect;

but children we must always protect.

Living with several children day and night teaches one about the workings of children's minds.

Being in K12 education, one would know that the prefrontal cortex is still developing at age 18, the age we consider one to be an adult, and the brain does not fully mature until about 25 years. One in K12 education would also likely know that female brains are about two years ahead of the male brain at age 15.

[No Vested Interest]

118. Did someone post something naughty

in response to my comment and I missed it? Oh, heck!
Did the jury vote it off?

[free0352]

19. Its as much his park as it is yours.

[TheMadMonk]

32. Well it's not the kid's park any more, or his families. Is it?

Please explain to me, why an ASSUMED RIGHT trumps the most basic right to existence.

[pintobean]

31. What if it was your gun in your park?

If you're going to claim the park as yours, you have to claim every government owned firearm, as well.

It's like a rule, dude.

[rl6214]

49. "My national park"?

Really

[Eleanors38]

61. Not "your" park. It's OUR park.

[ileus]

66. Because it's your national park and not mine is the reason I carry.

If it were my national park I'd know those there, and thus, weren't a threat to myself or family.

Safety first, there's no reason to run unnecessary risks anymore.

[Kolesar]

81. Law enforcement didn't want guns in our national parks.

We got by fine without them since 1876. If your scared of bears, stay back in the exurbs.

[ileus]

82. I've got bears in the backyard.

clap real loud or just stepping out on the porch at night sends them running, and get my dogs to shut up.

Anywhere there's a two legged creature you'll find a potential threat worth keeping an eye on. The good news is we no longer have to go around as mandated unwilling victims.

[Kolesar]

83. There's the paranoid fantasy

It's really not about the bears. It's more the " whitey who has to take his gun everywhere" privilege. It has a degree of: "I hate my government and nobody is going to tell me what to do" philosophy.

[ileus]

85. We are the government....I don't hate myself.

I do however, distrust the common criminal never to give him the benefit of a doubt. Sure it may be rare to be suffer an attack while out in backwoods, but 30oz's of prevention is worth it. Just consider it OFF for big mosquito's....

Safety first, good day

[Kolesar]

86. We were ok for 130 years without a weaponized wilderness

I have actually encountered two grizzlies on two trails in Glacier NP. The three of us just walked away. No problem

[ileus]

96. buy bear spray if you're worried about four legged critters.

Much better than any handgun you're going to carry comfortably. Getting off a shot at a charging bear would be a lucky shot at best, just enjoy being in nature and don't sweat the chance encounters.

[Kolesar]

89. I am a blue-eyed devil & disgusted with the presumption that crime is in the black culture

That message is all over TV. Film crews rush to every robbery in the city. Lots of video of young black men getting handcuffed and taken to the lock up. There is no commensurate filming of white collar fraudsters.

The message has its roots in the "black codes" that have been cycling men through the penal system since Reconstruction.

Some of you might want to look up "blue eyed devil", too. I have experienced fifty years of privilege.

[ileus]

94. I'm not worried about who my be scared of.

You need to ignore the media and their stereotyping. Don't be afraid of any one group of people, just make sure you're prepared if you should need to protect your life of the lives of your family. Those that want to harm you come in all shades of flesh. As a matter of fact I'd dare to say you have a better chance of being attacked by a white than any minority here in America. At least that's the color most often fingered in crime in my area.

Safety knows no color.

[Kolesar]

101. Totally went over your head

Or else you are being obtuse

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3627861

[hack89]

93. What civil right have the cops ever not been willing to restrict?

the legal history of civil rights in America is signposted by court cases responding to police abuses of fundamental civil rights.

I am ambivalent on the issue of guns in the national parks but one thing is for sure - what a cop thinks about what civil rights I "need" is not part of my internal debate.

[Kolesar]

102. The naturalist rangers and the law enforcement rangers wanted guns prohibited in National Parks

They are the ones with the responsibility to protect our natural resources.

They don't have a record of civil rights violations, seriously.

[hack89]

105. So? Why does a badge make their opinion more important than yours or mine? nt

[Kolesar]

112. A college degree makes their opinion more important than yours

Those naturalists with biology degrees have the responsibility of protecting our natural resources.

[hack89]

113. We have wandered a long way from ...

Law enforcement didn't want guns in our national parks

to biology majors concerned about natural resources.

Those goal post are pretty heavy, aren't they?

[Kolesar]

114. Study civics: the rangers are law enforcement

and rangers are biologists
Rangers didn't want your guns in our parks.

[hack89]

115. So biology majors are experts on violent crime? Didn't know that.

If they are really cops then my original point stands - a badge and a position of authority does not make their views on civil liberties any more valid than mine. History in fact says their views should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Kolesar]

116. you want to distort the story into something with no bearing on the NPS eom

[hack89]

117. You bought up law enforcement as if their opinions were special.

I don't share your view that a badge and a position of authority makes a person any wiser than me.

You think cops are special. I don't. It is not a big deal.

[Politicalboi]

126. And what crimes do trees commit?

These yahoo's go shooting in the woods along with drinking. Why shouldn't the rangers have a say in THEIR own protection from assholes who shoot ANYTHING that moves in a forest. All the shells they leave behind to boot. The RANGERS clean that up, not the assholes. Next the rangers will want fires only in permitted areas. The nerve of those rangers to ruin my time at MY park.

Make it a federal crime to be caught with a gun in a federal park. Yes, you'll still have the law breakers, but they won't be showing off their manhood to anyone who drives by, or randomly shoot trees and wildlife.

[hack89]

127. Another lover of authority figures speaks up.`

it is funny how gun control brings out the authoritarians. Can't trust cops, the government or the NSA yet they are the only ones to be trusted with guns. Never ceases to amaze me.

I don't care what rights the police think I "need".

[Logical]

12. Many laws save people. DUI, OSHA Laws, Speed Limits, and you have no fucking idea if....

this family might not have left the gun at home if the guns in the park law was still in place.

"laws don't save people in cases where people disregard them", well of course Einstein, that is like saying medicine does not work if people choose to not take them and that taxes are worthless if no one pays them.

LOL, is this a parody post?? You just messing with me??

[NYC_SKP]

15. People break all those laws every day.

I'll soften up to say, yes, laws are helpful.

But really education stops more drunk drivers, prevents more OTJ injuries, and as for speeding, well, I guess the fear of a ticket helps.

I think most gun owners who would take a gun on a family camp-out would take it regardless of laws against it.

What's hard to believe about that?

.

[TheMadMonk]

34. Or the fear of not being able to drive to work, when your license is suspended.

Really? You think, that? You think that the average gun owner behaves as if THE ONLY LAW applicable to them is the one that prevents government taking his guns.

If so, then that is ALL the argument necessary for DRACONIAN gun control in America.

[NYC_SKP]

35. I think as many guns were going into parks per year with and without the law.

I think the typical careless gun owner or gun nut is oblivious to the prohibition against bringing guns into parks.

It's odd how hard that seems to be for people to grasp.

People want to blame the law or lack of law.

No, it's the stupid careless gun owner who left a gun unattended.

[X_Digger]

16. Funny thing is, under the previous rules, you could have a gun in the park..

.. but it had to be in the trunk, or locked in a container.

In this case, if the child retrieved the firearm from a locked container or trunk, then the change in the law is immaterial.

[whopis01]

42. A question of logic

You make two claims in your post;

1) Laws against guns in national parks will not keep guns out of national parks.

2) If there was a law requiring gun safety training for all youth, the girl might have been saved.

Why do you believe that the first law would have no effect where the second law would? It seems rather biased towards believing that laws requiring training in firearms are laws that people would follow whereas laws restricting use of firearms are going to be ignored.

[NYC_SKP]

46. 1) Laws against guns in national parks will not keep guns out of national parks.

Not once have I said that I oppose these laws, or that they are entirely worthless.

What I have tried to make clear is that laws can't really entirely prevent these things the way some seem to think.

People break laws, every minute of every day.

Neither the first or the second guarantee safety, but I submit that where the first one might fail, the second one might not.

In fact, the second one (education and awareness) is portable and permanent, while the other (laws against bringing guns in parks) is not.

See?

[whopis01]

77. As you said, people break laws

You also said:

Although if there had been a law requiring gun safety training for all youth, that might have saved this girl.

My point is that a law requiring education is no more likely to be obeyed than a law banning firearms from a national park. Some will follow it and some won't.

[Contrary1]

72. She was all of 3 years old.

[NYC_SKP]

73. Yes, that fact was only released today. Also, they're from Idaho (not that it matters).

So we either have stupid/careless parents or others in the group for bringing an unsecured and loaded handgun along.

Or we have a loose or tossed by someone else (unlikely) weapon that the child encountered.

In the first case, we clearly have negligence, the kind that should result in loss of certain rights.

In the second, and unlikely, case, little could have been done.

So very sad.

[TheCowsCameHome]

97. She was three years old. Only three.

Spare me the "educated child" and safety training thing this time, OK?

[NYC_SKP]

100. Her age was unknown when I wrote that. Also, we just learned that the gun was in father's control.

That bit of news just came out.

So now that we have more details, the child was 3 and the father owned the gun and was responsible for it, we can draw a conclusion or two.

1. He was probably untrained in the safe storage and transport of a firearm, or it wouldn't have been accessible and loaded.

2. If he was trained he just didn't care, so he's a negligent parent.

3. For such people as these, it's highly unlikely that a law prohibiting possession would have prevented his bringing one into the park.

4. The law made no difference in this case, in all likelihood.

Poor child.

[Cleita]

20. Bull. There was a reason for the law to begin with because

trigger happy yahoos couldn't restrain themselves from shooting at things.

[Owl]

11. Guns should not be allowed in state or national parks.

[Iggo]

13. More guns!!!

[Cleita]

17. How's that allowing guns into National Parks law working out.

[Owl]

18. If you can't handle making smores around the campfire without holstering a gun, stay home.

[free0352]

22. Because nothing deters a bear attack....

...like swinging the stick you toast marshmallows with at it.

I like wildlife as much as the next guy, but I don't like it enough to get mauled by a grizzly bear, angry buffalo or a mountain lion.

http://www.ibtimes.com/grizzly-bear-attacks-2-hikers-yellowstone-national-park-everybody-walked-away-alive-1388615

[Owl]

23. It's called paranoia. Come on, jeez....

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Try reading your link.

....it's really interesting, especially the part about carrying bear spray.

[free0352]

37. It does say they lived...

...having been mauled by a bear.

I know when I'm in bear country, I'm not trusting bear mace. Its range is what - 10 feet tops? And thats a pretty big animal, very tough. The bear mace might drive it off in time... but you might have quite a few stitches or worse for the trouble. I'm not a bear hunter, nor a wolf or mountain lion hunter for that matter. But its hard to make the argument that there is no place for guns in the backcountry of America. Especially for someone who might not want the canned experience of the tourist areas of a national park and actually wants to get out in the middle of nowhere, where likely a hospital isn't around the corner, but maybe over 100 miles away.

Of course if you're going to carry a gun, you shouldn't let your little kids have access to it. Everybody knows that, but there are always going to be stupid people and you shouldn't make rules that cater to the lowest common denominator of common sense. Frankly, most people aren't that stupid.

[Robb]

41. You understand this girl was shot at the campground, right?

They were not in the backcountry, they were -- as you just put it -- rather specifically enjoying the "canned experience of the national park."

The Grant Village campground has a laundry facility, for crying out loud.

[rl6214]

50. I have had bears come into campgrounds within a couple of feet of me.

The campgrounds attract the bears.

[Robb]

51. As have I.

It seemed an odd argument.

[2naSalit]

78. Well

The new law about carrying guns in the parks says you can carry one but it's still illegal to shoot it in the park. And, there was a study conducted last year or the year before where bear encounters with humans with guns and those with pepper spray and it came to the conclusion that your chances of not getting mauled or harmed by a bear were considerably better by using the pepper spray than a gun. And if you shoot a wild animal in a national park you will be held accountable under federal law.

I have bears sniffing at my cabin door from time to time and I never even consider guns as useful if they decided to come in, but I have a couple cans of pepper spay handy by the door and one in my day pack that I carry to my truck when I go to town so I can get my groceries safely into the cabin. I live in bear country and it's part of the lifestyle to live among them and see them as the amazing creatures that they are rather than seeing them as an inhibitor to my enjoyment in life. I make a point of not attracting them thus getting them in trouble with the folks who want to control nature.

If you're going to go camping, you might want to know something about the place and how to "be" there safely before you go. It's not like a hotel experience and anyone expecting all amenities to be there should just get a room.

Guns don't belong in our parks but the gunners seem to think they should be an appendage to every human body. This sad event is one example of why that's not a good idea.

[awoke_in_2003]

33. So, you think your 9 mm or .45...

is going to stop a grizzly? Unless you have a .454 or a rifle you are lunch.

[Le Taz Hot]

56. Oh, ffs.

I've been camping for 50+ years and I've seen ONE bear. One. In Sequoia National Park. Metal spoon to pot. Scared him off. Poof! No more bear in campground but very much alive.

Where the HELL have you been "camping?" You're encountering grizzly bears, angry buffalo AND mountain lions? I'm smelling some MAJOR bullshit here.

[wilt the stilt]

65. then you should never go out in the wild and I don't think you have been out there

I have been in all the park out west(Glacier, Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain, Grand Tetons). That is part of going out to those parks. no guns. There are wilderness areas for guns.
A grizzly killed a couple in a place I stayed the night before. If you have been at those parks you do many things to avoid bears.

Your ten is a 100 yards from whee you sleep and another 100 yards from where you eat. Bears do not come after you and there are no campfires in the parks. You can only use stoves.

you comment proves you know nothing.

[SheilaT]

21. Responsible gun owners. Yep.

Gotta love 'em.

Oddly enough, I suspect the child would not have died had there not been a gun there.

[avebury]

24. It probably could have justy as easily happened

at home. Geography has no correlation when it comes to gun owners who are irresponsible. Stupid is as stupid does. As usual, a gun owner who cared more about gun ownership then safety of a child.

[AlinPA]

27. The parent(s) of this child should be made to look at the child's picture 10 hours a day and be

reminded by a recording that they are responsible. May they suffer the rest of their stupid days.

[Divernan]

29. Charge them w/ negligent homicide; sterilize them; jail them & throw away the key

[hack89]

45. Eugenics lives at DU! nt

[cleanhippie]

60. Sterilize them? WTF is wrong with you?

[Eleanors38]

62. Eugenics? Anything goes in Guns/Dogs Forum.

[TheMadMonk]

40. This is true enough. On the other hand, the average home doesn't...

...have a non-zero number of random strangers camped in the living room.

Bad enough that an innocent kid killed himself, but he could all too easily have killed others, and even potentially touched off a full blown firefight, if the wrong paranoid idiot happens to be present.

[elleng]

26. jebus pucking cripes!

[valerief]

28. Oh, if only she had TWO guns, she could have killed someone else--gungeoneer logic. nt

[rl6214]

52. Only ones you will see spouting this sort of nonsense are the anti gun nuts

[Eleanors38]

64. They create it, then they spray it. Very Rovian.

[friendly_iconoclast]

124. They like to 'quote' people they somehow never manage to link to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12624585#post3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3527061

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3527200

[friendly_iconoclast]

125. I notice you lot can never manage to link to these purported 'gungeoneers'

Why is that?

[Jenoch]

30. Of course this is a tragedy.

With so few details, there is not much point in further comments.

[The Straight Story]

43. Possible she had a restraining order against a violent X and had it for protection

Not to mention that before the law people carried them anyway hidden away in backpacks, which she may have done (and if no ccw she was still breaking the law - so maybe another new law will fix that......)

But I agree, we need women like her to have no way to defend themselves from people who will break the law anyway. She could call the cops out there and wait for them to come and save her (or identify her).

Once more....less than 1% of people with guns have things like this happen but people like pimping the deaths of the few to create bias against the many (a lesson well learned from the rw and how they showcase only the bad stories on certain things like Islam to better foment hate and anger. Guess they are doing the progressive thing since that is what we love to do here as well on some topics).

[NYC_SKP]

47. Of course we don't have any details yet.

Was it dad's gun, mom's gun, or was it someone else's?

Was it in their car, their bags, or was it lying around having been tossed by someone unknown to them?

What absolutely kills me is that every story, including this OP, makes an immediate association between the change in laws and this incident, when it's utterly clear that even with the law this could have happened because not all people obey all laws and some would take their guns in either way.

Logic and reason in gun stories is usually a few states away.

[Marrah_G]

44. More irresponsible parenting

If your child can get at and fire your weapon, you should not own one.

[Robb]

48. UPDATE, new info: girl was 3 years old.

Family from Idaho, per Faux news: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/08/yellowstone-officials-investigating-shooting-death-3-year-old-girl-in/

[Divernan]

54. Hard to picture 3 yr. old w/strength to point gun at herself AND pull the trigger.

Parents lying to protect the real killer? Hope someone has a forensic expert reconstruct this shooting.

[2naSalit]

79. That was the first thing I thought

about even before her age was made known. The original article sounded like it was a really young child and I, too, wonder how a three year old could manage to do that. Wonder who actually pulled the trigger, were the parents fighting or was there some other situation that we have yet to hear about? It's unseemly that the girl was able to manage such a thing without the aid of another individual.

3. years. old.

[Le Taz Hot]

55. I remember a camping trip several years ago,

in a National Forest but not a National Park. We're sitting there, enjoying nature and all of a sudden, pop! pop! pop! pop1, and some little kid, no more than 10 years old, is chasing a squirrel trying to kill it with a BB gun. He was waving the damned thing around shooing INSIDE our and others' camp sites. I went over and informed mindless parents who had given little snowflake a gun, that guns weren't allowed in the campsight (pre 2010) and that little snowflake was going to cause some real damage, including and especially to the wildlife. All I got was how BB guns were harmless, yada yada. It was obvious he wasn't going to listen. It took me about 10 minutes to find the ranger but I found him. Clueless neighbors were made to leave the campground.

[pintobean]

57. Snowflake?

Would you define that?

[Le Taz Hot]

59. A child whose parents are convinced

their said child can do no wrong. Snowflake.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. I'm disgusted

[ileus]

63. In the wild, always in a proper holster always on your side.

and as always in a lockbox if it's not on your person.


Safety first.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

68. Your schtick is to always quote from some kind of gun safety manual

and then chirp "Safety first!" at the end of your post, like some kind of also-ran 80s PSA mascot, like Slappy the Safety Seal or something...

[ileus]

75. follow my rules they'll work every time.

Success is easy to accomplish.


Proper holster, retention if you so desire and keeping your sidearm on your person will basically 100% assure it will be there when you need it and others won't misuse it by accident.

[Lizzie Poppet]

111. And yours, apparently, it to respond to reasonable posts with insults.

Schtick that trolling asshattery where the sun don't shine, sparky.

[wilt the stilt]

70. I smell someone who ha never been out in the wild

a handgun is not taking down a bear.

[ileus]

74. Naw man, never set foot in the wild.

A CC handgun (not the 500 smiths or 454, 460's ect...) are for two legged threats.

We did spend this evening sighting in my 9yo's crossbow getting ready for season to open. He dying to take a bear ever since he saw on in the backyard a few weeks ago, (I drove it out of the brush behind the house on the dirtbike and didn't realize it) but I've told him only with his 7mm-08, I'm not chasing a blackie around the neighborhood after he's shot it in the liver or something with a crossbow.

[wilt the stilt]

90. sounds east coast but certainly not Montana

east coast or middle of the country(south,)is domesticated next to grizz country. tell me about lacier or the Bob Marsahall wilderness an what you do to avoid grizzlies out there.

[Eleanors38]

67. So, how many cases like this in Nat'l Parks? Bug trend?

Assuming you posted this for discussion of policy, we'll need b.g. Info in how big a problem this is, or whether it's a rather rare local event.

[IveWornAHundredPants]

69. ...and YOUR schtick is to ask, ever-so-innocently

how often this or that happens, with the obvious and completely useless implication that it doesn't happen enough for you personally to be worried about it. Are you guys some kind of insane comedy team?

[pintobean]

71. What's your schtick?

And how many hats have you worn?

[Duckhunter935]

76. Sure likes that word "schtick"

[Eleanors38]

80. What, if anything, do you propose as policy or law,

and what are these proposals based on?

Government action is based on societal problems, not on very occasional -- even rare -- local occurrences.

You consider this schtick comedy; others deem it that "common sense approach," an expression so often used by controllers. Lacking any real serious approach, one is left to conclude the OP is really about stigmatizing gun-owning Americans and the RKBA by posting anything considered seen as negative. Is this YOUR schtick?

[Lizzie Poppet]

104. Basing broad public policy on anything OTHER than broad empirical evidence is foolish.

Anecdotal evidence is considered inadequate for that purpose for a very good reason.

[ileus]

84. I'd imagine more people are killed on their bikes.

I know my neighbors kid still has a cast from a camping trip about 6 weeks ago where he went down hard on his bike.

[wilt the stilt]

91. why are guns needed in national parks?

[Kolesar]

87. Here's your discussion , Steve

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3627709

[hack89]

95. Ah yes - bow down to the authority of the police

the historic protectors of all our civil rights.

[Kolesar]

103. I refuted your paranoid fantasy upthread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3628580

[hack89]

106. Park rangers are public employees.

they get to implement the laws their employers tell them to implement. I do not accept your stance that a badge and a position of authority elevates the worth of someone's opinion.

[NYC_SKP]

108. They don't even have cell service in many of the parks so that you could call 911...

...and wait 20 minutes for help!

Now if only the bears would be more patient!

[sarisataka]

107. So which is it?

Good or bad? http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023623607

[hack89]

109. The only thing the police can be trusted with is a monopoly on guns

[Eleanors38]

110. Be more specific, Jolesar.

[TheCowsCameHome]

98. Stay home and watch NPS DVD's if you're that scared

of everything that moves in the outside world.

[NYC_SKP]

99. *UPDATE*: "child died from a bullet fired from a pistol operated by her father"

As I suspected this tragedy had NOTHING to do with the laws prohibiting guns in national parks; this could just as well as happened in their home.

Per Christian Post:

By Myles Collier, Christian Post Contributor
September 9, 2013|8:46 am

Authorities investigating the death of a young girl in Yellowstone National Park have stated that the child died from a bullet fired from a pistol operated by her father.

The death was the first such incident in Yellowstone National Park since 1978 and occurred at the Grant Village campground on the shores of Yellowstone Lake.

Information has been slow to be released as investigators continue with their investigation, but reports did indicate that the girl's mother called emergency dispatchers on Saturday to report that her daughter had shot herself at the popular lakeside campsite.

Emergency personnel were unable to revive the toddler whose name is being withheld until Monday at the request of the family, who are from Idaho, park spokesman Al Nash said.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/girl-shot-in-yellowstone-died-from-bullet-fired-from-fathers-gun-104053/

[liberalhistorian]

120. If the gun was operated by her father,

then why did her mother report to emergency officials that the toddler had shot herself???? Covering up for negligent gun nut daddy who can't even leave his gun home during a family vacation, or something more going on?

[NYC_SKP]

121. It's fishy. "Operated" was the term used only by one journalist.

They might have meant "under the control of".

The girl's name was released.

Ella Marie Tucker - Obituary

Ella Marie Tucker, 3

Chubbuck, ID-Ella Marie Tucker, passed away following a tragic accident on Sat. Sept. 7, 2013. A full obituary will appear in a future edition of the Journal. Funeral services will be held at 11 a.m. on Thur. Sept. 12, 2013 at the Whitaker Ward LDS Chapel at 4890 Whitaker Rd. A viewing will be held from 5 to 7 p.m. on Wed. Sept. 11, 2013 at Wilks Funeral Home 211 W. Chubbuck Rd. and one hour prior to services at the church. Condolences may be sent to the family online at www.wilksfuneralhome.com. [phone]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/idahostatejournal/obituary.aspx?n=ella-marie-tucker&pid=166885847&fhid=8077

[RetroLounge]

119. No one cares about a dead 3 year old, as long as the gunhumpers get to keep their guns

RL

[friendly_iconoclast]

123. Tragic anecdotes are a poor basis for making (or revising) law

[RetroLounge]

129. but 1000s of tragic anecdotes just might be.

and I'm sure the parents are glad their dead child is just a "Tragic anecdote" to you.

"Tragic anecdotes" - the next NRA talking point.



RL

[DanTex]

128. It's very ironic that the NRAers are here whining about "anecdotal evidence"...

...given that the entire pro-gun argument rests on sketchy anecdotes about a gun hero saving the day and shooting down bad guys.

There are pages of peer reviewed studies documenting that guns increase homicide rates, and put both the owner of the gun and others at greater risk, which the gungeoneers are happy to ignore in favor of "my cousin Bubba shot a robber one time".

[RetroLounge]

130. "Tragic anecdotes"

It's their new talking point

RL