"There is an even bigger lie: the arrogant idea that this country is the center of the universe ....

[marmar]

[font size="4"]..... exceptionally virtuous, admirable, superior.

If our starting point for evaluating the world around us is the firm belief that this nation is somehow endowed by Providence with unique qualities that make it morally superior to every other nation on Earth, then we are not likely to question the president when he says we are sending our troops here or there, or bombing this or that, in order to spread our values -- democracy, liberty, and let's not forget free enterprise -- to some God-forsaken (literally) place in the world."[/font] -- Howard Zinn


The complete piece, "Lessons of the Iraq War start with U.S. history", is at: http://progressive.org/media_mpzinn030806

[Loudly]

1. Don't give any moral ground.

If you're holding everyone by the same standard then there are a lot of condemned.

[Bolo Boffin]

2. And if we recognize that America is not the moral center

of the universe, but that it doesn't take a moral center of the universe to see what Assad is doing is threatening far more than just his people...

Well, what then, Mr. Zinn?

[Niceguy1]

3. too nany peopke think

In strictly in term of black and white. The real world is shaded.

[orpupilofnature57]

5. Gray areas are for children and movies, in the end it's

Black or White .

[PaulaFarrell]

14. You have that exactly backwards

.

[orpupilofnature57]

23. As far as what, Exactly ?

[orpupilofnature57]

6. All the Misanthropes have been on the couch in the White House

right before their atrocities were exposed, Where was the NSA at the beginning of this genocide ? giving a corporation money for any of my meager phone conversations under the guise of a safer world .

[Scootaloo]

8. And how will bombing the shit out of Syria help stabilize the region and end the threats?

'Cause right now? The people trading potshots with Turkey and Israel, the fuckers setting off car bombs in Lebanon and Iraq? They're not Syrian soldiers.

[Bolo Boffin]

9. You could drop the straw man and deal with Obama's actual reasons

for taking this action.

It's not to stop potshots. It's not meant to right every wrong in the world. It's meant to punish Assad for the use of chemical weapons. It's meant to dissuade him and anyone else with chemical weapons from using them. That's all.

[Scootaloo]

10. Oh, I know his reasons

I'm talking about the aftermath of the action he's talking about taking. Yeah, the "and then..." part that is studiously being ignored by every advocate for opening this can of worms.

[Bolo Boffin]

15. Did you know the Iranian President condemned Assad for using chemical weapons?

There may be fewer worms in that can than you anticipate.

And that would be a good thing, right?

[Scootaloo]

18. I wouldn't be surprised...

Seeing has how most adult Iranians probably have pretty acute memories of people they know getting hit with mustard gas, chlorine, sarin, and VX, or suffering it themselves. Funny how that reality, of Iranian's experience at the hands of people using such indiscriminate weapons, never seems to come up when US-Israeli-Saudi interests are promulgating scare tactics against Iran. The Iranians aren't any more keen on these things than Americans would have been in 1919.

But I'm talking about Syria, not Iran. we knock over Assad. Okay. Then what? Tell me, what happens next?

[Bolo Boffin]

19. "We knock over Assad." Another straw man. That's not an aim with these strikes.

And not likely to happen either.

[Scootaloo]

20. Well, that's what the Senate is angling for

And it's what all the pro-missile DU'ers seem to be going on. And it's within the realm of possibility.

So. What do you think will happen?

[Bolo Boffin]

22. That is what some in the Senate want. Not all.

The Senate resolution so far is limited to 90 days at the most, and no ground troops. One of the angling-for-more Senators isn't supporting the resolution because it's not giving himwhat he wants. So, no, the Senate is not angling for a replacement of Assad.

I don't know what is going to happen. Neither do you. A limited strike that makes the point and goes no further is also in the realm of possibility. And since it is what's being readied, we shouldn't automatically rule out that's what's going to happen.

[sibelian]

16. You'll have to start defending that assertion, too.

And, you might have to have a word with al Quaida.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky are sages we should listen to.

[unblock]

7. not the whole country. just boston.

[gopiscrap]

11. Exactly!

[MindMover]

12. This is how we are viewing the world today ....

""

[polly7]

21. LOL!

Are you being serious?

[wisteria]

13. We are the most powerful nation in the world, with that weight

comes responsibility.

[sibelian]

17. That's a line from the fucking spiderman movies.

...

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. heh

[phleshdef]

27. Actually its Voltaire.

[marew]

24. Could not agree more! nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. rec

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer

[felix_numinous]

29. There are people that still believe in Manifest Destiny,

that it was gods will for America to remake the world in her own image. This kind of nonsense does not belong in the 21st century.

[felix_numinous]

30. And that resistance is futile

--the hidden lie is that WE HAVE NO CHOICE. Our free will, to choose another path, is being assumed by people operating in secret, making life and death decisions FOR all of us.

That we are like children that need to be led, told stories and partial truths.

First dumb down the schools, fill the airwaves with hate, outsource all the jobs, phase out social services and--what--feign outrage and surprise to see what happens to a population under stress?? Then showcase all the cases of violence, mental illness and ignorance in order to shift the focus off of themselves. That's the ticket.

Then play off the fear of anarchy and chaos in order to implement more laws to take away--you got it--more of our choices.

I hope it is not too late for us to stop this trend.

Peace~Felix