Charlie Pierce shares AMAZING John Kerry quote from 4/22/71:

[bullwinkle428]

I have tremendous respect for Secretary Of State John Kerry, whom I have watched since he first ran for Congress in Lowell a long time ago. I believe he is everything about an American politician that most people think John McCain is. That said, he can't outdistance his own past no matter how fast he tap-dances. Yesterday, he got in a terrible wrangle with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee when he was asked to come up with a scenario by which he could envision American ground troops in Syria, and he actually came up with one, causing a lot of the people on the committee to scream. Soon, though, he was back to the comforting, administration-approved fiction that making war in Syria with cruise missile strikes is somehow not the same as making war in Syria with the American infantry. That, somehow, doing the former is not making war in a place.

This is not a tenable position, and Kerry has to know it. On April 22, 1971, John Kerry appeared before this same committee of the United States Senate and demonstrated quite convincingly that this is not a tenable position.

Kerry quote:

"We veterans can only look with amazement on the fact that this country has been unable to see there is absolutely no difference between ground troops and a helicopter crew, and yet people have accepted a differentiation fed them by the administration. No ground troops are in Laos, so it is all right to kill Laotians by remote control. But believe me the helicopter crews fill the same body bags and they wreak the same kind of damage on the Vietnamese and Laotian countryside as anybody else and the President is talking about allowing this to go on for many years to come. One can only ask if we will really be satisfied only when the troops march into Hanoi."

He knows how deadly wrong the comforting fiction he's selling now really is. It is no more all right to kill Syrians by remote control than it was to kill Laotians by remote control. He is asking the Senate to allow the president to make war in Syria. He should stop pretending otherwise.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/

[mike_c]

1. power corrupts....

John Kerry is a tool, now.

[indepat]

41. And absolute power corrupts absolutely

[warrant46]

2. The Irony of it all

[ProSense]

3. Great quote

"We veterans can only look with amazement on the fact that this country has been unable to see there is absolutely no difference between ground troops and a helicopter crew, and yet people have accepted a differentiation fed them by the administration. No ground troops are in Laos, so it is all right to kill Laotians by remote control. But believe me the helicopter crews fill the same body bags and they wreak the same kind of damage on the Vietnamese and Laotian countryside as anybody else and the President is talking about allowing this to go on for many years to come. One can only ask if we will really be satisfied only when the troops march into Hanoi."

Secretary Kerry certainly isn't advocating carpet bombing Syria and killing tens of thousands of people.

"Secretary of State John Kerry delivered a fiery rebuke to...Sen. Rand Paul’s line of questioning"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023590177

[PoliticAverse]

4. From yesterday: Kerry - "I had feelings very similar to that protester"

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/john-kerry-acknowledges-code-pink-protester-i-had-very-similar-feelings-after-vietnam/

[roguevalley]

16. he's pushing the propoganda so he doesn't. what a disappointment he

is to me as a person who was around during the time he was against the war. My how power corrupts and money changes things. TOo bad he had a chance to make change and didn't. I would resign before I would push this propoganda.

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Rogue, remember when Wally Hickel resigned rather than support Richard Nixon's

Last edited Wed Sep 4, 2013, 02:25 PM - Edit history (1)

forays into Cambodia and Nixon's disrespecting of the anti war protesters? I didn't agree with Wally every time, but I always had a lot of respect for his anti war stance.

Ed. Maybe I should have said let himself be fired. Either way, he took a principled stance.

[roguevalley]

49. I agree. I also remember the first time I met him. He was coming into the

Captain Cook Parking Lot the same time I was going out pushing the door open. I pushed it into his head. LOL! He was so nice about it. I hit a 150m$ man in the head and lived to tell it.

If even a pug will leave office over war, what excuse does a dem have?

[blm]

5. The bombing is targeted - chem weapon plants and airfields.

There is no carpet bombing of the region in the works.

Anyone familiar with Kerry's position of the last 40 years already know that he his long-held position is AGAINST carpet-bombing....and that has never changed.

[n2doc]

8. Glad to know you are so tied in to the Pentagon's plans!

Given that the proposal in congress sets no such limits on the President's actions, I suppose we will just have to take your word for it that only those things, unoccupied of course, will be hit by missiles and bombs.

I have yet to hear of anyone who has said that Obama plans on carpet bombing Syria. I don't think we even did that in Iraq. Missiles are so much more modern.

[blm]

10. It was stated. Not my fault you choose what you want to ignore

and what you choose to believe and that the result isn't illuminating for you.

[n2doc]

11. link? n/t

[blm]

14. To add to the many other links you chose to ignore? ; )

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/30/217099490/what-would-be-the-best-targets-to-hit-in-syria

If the US Strikes, What are the Targets Inside Syria?

David Greene talks to retired U.S. Army General Jack Keane about possible military targets in Syria — should President Obama decide to launch a strike. General Keane says the primary targets should include several airfields. That would eliminate runways and aircraft, and the other infrastructure that supports Syria's air power.
>>>>

http://www.today.com/video/today/52891958#52891958

[n2doc]

15. No, to see if there is anything behind the FUD you post n/t

[blm]

21. Sorry that you feel someone who actually PAID ATTENTION to Syria

for the past decade annoys your recently-decided-to-catch-up sensibility, n2.

You never even knew Kerry had been interceding in Syria since 2005, and had developed a strong, working, diplomatically-driven relationship with Assad in order to PREVENT Assad from indulging the murderous side of his family DNA.

He sticks his neck out all the time for this country in quiet ways you don't hear about much and is rarely backed up....or thanked.

Sure gets kicked a lot, though, especially from the least informed.

[n2doc]

23. I do pay attention

Kerry ruled out nothing yesterday. Nothing.
http://www.progressive.org/john-kerry-warmonger

Comphrende?

Perhaps a bit of logic- Would a competent administration reveal what it planned to do ahead of time? Would a competent administration limit the scope of its actions ahead of time in such a chaotic part of the world? What do you think the US response would be if Syria managed to sink one of our warships after we blew up their airfields? Would you call THAT war?

Your trust in Obama and his administration borders on the religious.

[proverbialwisdom]

34. Great points, thank you. nt

[blm]

45. Horsepoo - you haven't paid attention for 8yrs and think you can address

Syria seriously by your ASSUMPTIONS.

You need to pretend it's 'religious' when actually it's based on 8 years of watching and listening to what was going on in Syria, long before there was an Obama administration. You also aren' t very careful regarding me, or you'd know that I never feel shy about saying Obama has done something stupid. I railed against his stupid choice of a hawk like Clinton, specifically BECAUSE I knew she was a hawk on SYRIA - sound familiar, n2? It should - because I've been talking about her lack of credibility on Syria since before she or Obama took office.

In fact, I was against her in the primary BECAUSE of her support for expanding war into Syria.

Listen - I don't give a cr@p that people move past my posts because they address stuff that isn't on the MSM radar, but, pretending that I am doing this because of a 'devotion' to an Obama presidency that I have many times noted as too weak, is absurd....absurd of YOU.

[Maedhros]

18. The Pentagon itself is very concerned about civilian casualties

that will result from U.S. intervention:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/middleeast/us-syria-intervention-would-be-risky-pentagon-officials-say.html?pagewanted=all

Although the United States has the military capability to launch sustained airstrikes in Syria — “We can do anything,” the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, told the Senate last week — defense officials say they are concerned about four tough challenges: the risks in attacking Syria’s plentiful and sophisticated Russian-made air defenses, which are located close to major population centers; arming a deeply splintered Syrian opposition; the potential for starting a proxy war with Iran or Russia, two crucial allies of Syria; and the lack, at least so far, of an international coalition willing to take action against the government of President Bashar al-Assad.

Defense and intelligence officials say that Syria’s integrated air defenses — a combination of thousands of surface-to-air missiles, radars and antiaircraft guns — are not only more advanced than those in Libya, they are also arrayed in densely populated areas on the country’s western border, meaning that even with precision bombing, civilians nearby would probably be killed.

“There would be some severe collateral damage going after those areas,” Mr. Panetta said last week.

So this fantasy you are creating in your own mind that involves magical missile strikes that hit only military targets is just that: a fantasy.

If we go into Syria, we are going to hurt people. A lot of people, large numbers of whom have done nothing to deserve what's coming.

[blm]

20. It can be done, and no one is thinking it will be perfect

but, it is NOT carpet-bombing.

[Maedhros]

25. No, it's not carpet bombing.

But it's still bombs with U.S. flags on the side falling out of the sky and incinerating, dismembering and decapitating terrified people JUST LIKE ME who have nothing to do with the conflict. And they are the lucky ones, compared to the ones that will die of sepsis from untreated wounds while American "shock and awe" disrupts what meager medical services are available. Still others will survive and carry horrible scars, physical and psychological, for the rest of their lives.

All so we can prove to the world that its bad to attack civilians.

[merrily]

30. The Pentagon doesn't release its analyses for public consumption without a reason.

[ConcernedCanuk]

33. Syrians deploying selves as 'human shields' in anticipation of U.S. airstrike

.
.
.

Syrians ain't asking for USA's help, in fact they seem to be intelligent enough to know that despite their internal conflicts,

missiles from the USA will only make it worse for them.

Remember, even if the missiles do not actually kill one civilian, the families of the military, rebels, whatever will be left fatherless.

Also, infrastructure will be damaged, electricity, running water and food supplies will diminish,

even with the most precise "surgical" strike.
________________________________________________________________________

Syrians deploying selves as 'human shields' in anticipation of U.S. airstrike

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/09/syrians_deploying_selves_as_hu.html



Pakistani lawyers burn a representation of the U.S. flag during an anti-American rally in Lahore, Pakistan Tuesday. It has been reported that Syrians are preparing to use themselves as human shields as the U.S. considers launching a punitive strike against the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Assad is being blamed by the U.S. and the Syrian opposition for an Aug. 21 alleged chemical weapons attack in a rebel-held suburb of the Syrian capital of Damascus. (AP photo/K.M. Chaudary)

/snip/

According to a video Reuters released overnight, civilians continue to volunteer as human shields as part of a campaign called "Over Our Bodies."Organizers claim to be receiving calls from

"We should at least defend our country, regardless of any opinion, notions or point of view, because at this time there is no difference in points of view anymore," one woman said in the video. "This is the least we can do to defend our country with our bodies."

_____________________________________________________________________________

‘Hands off’: Syrians form human shields outside possible US strike targets

http://rt.com/news/syria-activists-us-bombing-380/

/snip/

Damascene activists protesting possible US strikes on Syria set up a camp at the foot of Qasioun Mountain just outside the capital on Tuesday.

Qasioun Mountain, a symbol of Damascus and Syria, is home to many security and military buildings and institutions and thus is expected to be one of the targets for the airstrikes. Protesters rallying beside the place called themselves a “human shield” and hold banners featuring slogans such as “No more American bombing democracy” and “Hands off Syria”.

“We are here to express our loyalty to our country in the face of American threats. We don’t want what they did in Iraq over chemical weapons claims to be done in our country,” one of the rally participants told RT.

______________________________________________________________________________________

anyone listening???

CC

[sabrina 1]

40. Then we will be hearing his condemnation of the sale of Cluster Bombs to Saudi Arabia by the US

AND his call for the prosecution of the Bush War Criminals for THEIR use of Cluster Bombs on a market place in Iraq.

If what you say is true, I am surprised he has not been speaking out about Bush War Crimes as he was doing back in 1971.

[roguevalley]

50. targeted. That is the biggest lie of all. No bomb is smart, no bomb

can target. Babies are going to die. Period.

[blm]

51. Has anyone claimed it would be perfect?

No.

Can you claim that NOT responding WILL be perfect?

How many MORE babies will die in the NEXT chemical attack? And the NEXT? And the NEXT? Because a large group of Americans believe that use of chemical weapons on innocent people should now be tolerated, one can expect a huge uptick in the use of chemical weapons.

[roguevalley]

56. so killing to prevent killing when Syria already said they would double

down is smart? Babies are going to die. Let us have our own body count of babies so we can beat Syria in the death race. easy to say bomb them when the bombs don't fall on you.

[The Link]

6. It is fun to watch diehard Hillary Clinton bashers dance around and spin this as positive for Kerry.

[blm]

13. LOL that you think Hillary's position as a war hawk on Syria was HELPFUL to

those working towards diplomatic solutions in Syria the last 8 years.

Yeah.

LOL

lol

lo

l

[sabrina 1]

42. Well, Hillary is fully on board with all of this, she voted for the Iraq War, making it impossible

me and many others to support her when she ran or if she runs again.

She explained right after the real goal in Libya was accomplished how 'America cleverly fights wars the NEW WAY'. She confirmed what many of us who opposed that Regime Change operation also, that the US doesn't have to pub AMERICAN boots on the ground anymore, because we are USING PROXY Armies. We knew that, our allies in return for certain favors, like Qatar, put THEIR 'boots on the ground' pretending to be 'rebels' and we pretend we are supporting 'rebels' until we accomplish our goal. After which we forget all about the 'victims' we claim to be 'protecting'. It's quite amazing, the consistency of it all.

[Catherina]

7. In a similar vein, Pvt Manning vs the new John Kerry

[hootinholler]

22. Nice graphic. n/t

[avaistheone1]

24. K&r

[merrily]

29. Perfect. Thanks.

[xchrom]

9. Du rec. Nt

[markiv]

12. 'How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? '

which sums up our whole mideast interventionist policy

[Maedhros]

19. A better question:

How do you ask hundreds or thousands of Syrian civilians to die so that the American President can save face?

[merrily]

28. I don't believe the save face stuff for a minute.

This about money, power, oil and/or territory.

Saying that we have to save America's credibility is for the folks in the balcony.

[Maedhros]

36. Yes, it's just as bad to ask them to die so we can fill our gas tanks cheaply [n/t]

[merrily]

59. We weren't planning on asking them to die, though.

We were planning to kill them without a "by your leave."

In fact, we were saying we were going to kill them with our bombs in order to spare them the cruelty of someone's chemicals. And without proof of whose chemicals they were, either.

The rebels, having no motive I can discern to do so, since they've want the US in there for two years, said they set off the chemicals accidentally. Chemicals furnished them by Saudi Arabia.

Do I know if that's true? No. But I know Assad had no reason to invite the US into Syria by crossing Obama's red line.

[AllyCat]

53. Not sure how any of this helps him save face.

Admittedly, I don't understand a lot of the stuff about how this is supposed to bolster our credibility and such...seems to me that takes a back seat to not killing more people by bombing the ever-living $hit out of them. But I digress...how do you feel this helps him save or not save face? I'm just asking because I'm not sure what you mean.

By the way, I like your sig line...Game of Thrones?

[Maedhros]

55. The argument I see quite often

is that Obama stated that chemical weapons use would be crossing a "red line" and now that Assad has allegedly done so, if we don't intervene militarily then the President's (and the country's) credibility takes a hit.

I say, that ship already sailed with Bush and Iraq - the United States' credibility in matters of war is a tattered rag blowing in the wind.

(The quote is from The Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien. Maedhros the Tall was the eldest son of Feanor, the greatest of the Noldor. He went to battle against Morgoth and was captured. To punish Maedhros for his insolence, Morgoth hung Maedhros from the walls of the fortress Thangorodrim by shackles on his right wrist. After ten years of suffering, Maedhros' cousin Fingon, with the help of Thorondor, King of the Eagles, fought his way to Thangorodrim and rescued Maedhros by severing his right hand.)

[AllyCat]

57. Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure what you meant.

I agree that our credibility is suffering.

You know, I read the Silmarillion and don't remember that (not surprising...twas a long time ago). But I swear I just read a similar "fable" in Game of Thrones or A Clash of Kings. I'm going to have to look for it.

[Blue Owl]

17. Anybody seen my old friend John (Kerry)?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

[polichick]

26. Hey, you're making me cry here!

[Little Star]

32. So Sad. I wish he'd have just stayed one of my senators. sigh

[blm]

46. And left Hillary to have the REAL war in Syria she wanted since 2005.

Kerry's a warmongerer on Syria, even though he was working for 8 years to prevent war in Syria that the Sec of State Clinton had wanted since 2005.

Gotcha.

[blm]

52. He was IN Syria for 8 yrs working to PREVENT use of military in Syria

what were YOU doing the last 8 years? Were you supporting his goal of diplomatic solutions there?

[merrily]

31. Many members of Congress and the mass media have fallen right in line, though.

Suddenly, there is a huge distinction between boots on the ground--"for which the American people and most members of Congress seem to have no stomach" and mere l'il ole airstrikes.


That implies, among other things, that Americans do have a stomach for the silly ole airstrikes, which I don't believe for a minute.

Also, how hideous is it that we supposedly will not tolerate putting a single American in harm's way in a war of choice that we start, but no one has a problem bombing Syrian people?

Of course, that's okay, because our killing Syrians is way different from anyone else killing them.

[BlueToTheBone]

35. For a minute I had to look at the tv to make

sure Colin Powell hadn't come back into the administration!

[TeamPooka]

37. wow, just wow. 40 years can change a person.

[KamaAina]

38. It's slightly too long to be a DU sig line.

[DeSwiss]

39. K&R

- I could see it in his face. He hated those lies coming from his mouth. But LIES they were.....

''...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.''

The American Declaration of Independence

[sabrina 1]

43. He didn't have to tell them. Neither did Colin Powell. They both could have resigned. Others did,

during the Bush years, most of them Republicans because they knew what they were being asked to do was morally wrong. THOSE are men and women of principle.

[DeSwiss]

44. That would be my thought as well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. As a PR guy, Kerry should stick to selling hair growth products..requires less lying.

[wisteria]

48. Ahhh, he is trying to save lives. You do not understand

the nature of the strikes, they are not aimed at people, at aircraft, vehicles and other means that transport and execute chemical weapons.

[rhett o rick]

54. I hope you are being sarcastic, but I feel you are series.

Trying to save lives was the justification for the fire bombing of Toyko and Dresden and the atomic bombs.

First of all the Powers To Be lie. We know that from history. Second, even if they aimed the weapons at hardware, people will die. Third, the missile strikes may escalate the war and involve other nations, like Iran and/or Russia.

Fourth, the missile strikes most likely will not teach Assad a lesson, and will not stop his atrocities.

Fifth, we can not afford to be the "punisher" for the world.

[AllyCat]

58. Yes, he/she is series or serious, depending on your point of view.

Many comments in other threads supporting the war. Most recently I have seen this person's comment against Alan Grayson as "grandstanding" for the press. Grayson was, indeed, quite measured in his response and completely logical.