Cleveland kidnapper Ariel Castro found hanged in prison cell

[riqster]

http://touch.latimes.com/#tsection/-1/article/p2p-77265984/

"BY MATT PEARCE
September 4, 2013, 1:10 a.m.
Ariel Castro, the man who has been sentenced to life in prison for holding three Cleveland women captive for roughly a decade before their rescue this year, was found hanged in his cell and is believed to have committed suicide, Ohio officials said.

Castro, 53, was found in his cell at the Correctional Reception Center in Orient Tuesday evening, a prison spokeswoman told the Associated Press. He was pronounced dead at a hospital."

A coward to the end.

[In_The_Wind]

1. ~

[Kolesar]

2. The LBN thread

Thanks,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014584873
now we can forget that loser and direct our attention to important matters.

[Th1onein]

4. We are liberals; we should not celebrate this man's death.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

[hobbit709]

6. “I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with a great deal of satisfaction.”

Clarence Darrow.

[Ilsa]

7. He wasn't a man. He was a coward. A rapist.

A kidnapper. An abuser of women. Fuck him all the way to hell.

[Th1onein]

34. And the Jews that the Nazis gassed were nothing but vermin, too, right?

Sorry, but those kinds of rationalizations don't hold water.

[Ilsa]

37. That's a bullshit comparison, and you know it.

Castro was an evil, unrepentant SOB. I'm happy when evil is destroyed by itself.

Go ahead and waste your time feeling sorry about his death. I won't.

[Th1onein]

120. Dehumanization of another human being is dehumanization, any way you cut it.

It's been done throughout history to justify killing others, and it's wrong. It's wrong whether it's done to the Jews, or to Ariel Castro, or to blacks, or any other group, or person. It's just wrong.

[Ilsa]

123. And you dehumanized his victims

by equating him to Holocaust victims. He beat them, tortured them, impregnated them, and forced one to have a miscarriage by almost beating her to death, and you equate his existence with Holocaust victims. You need to rethink who side he was closer to. He looks more like Hitler than his victims.

[Th1onein]

127. I said NOTHING about his victims, except that I'm sure they would rather him face justice.

You INFER what you like, but you would be wrong. And I think you know that.

[HappyMe]

39. Wow. What the fuck!

There's the biggest, most ridiculous stretch ever posted.

Sorry, but your comparison doesn't hold water.

[REP]

41. But she will call women who have had abortions "murderers"

But plenty of sympathy for Castro.

[HappyMe]

43. Really?

Holy crap. I better just see my way out of this thread before I say something more......

[REP]

54. Really.

The milk of human kindness in limited quantities, reserved for those who have committed horrible crimes. Other women? Not so much.

[HappyMe]

62. Amazing.

Monsters deserve sympathy.

[liberalhistorian]

82. Yes, she is staunchly anti-abortion and believes

in severe punishment both for women who've had abortions and for doctors who perform them, regardless of the reason.

And she's also one of those deluded people who think that by making abortion illegal that that will somehow magically stop them all. HA. Statistically, there were nearly as many illegal abortions every year before '73 as there are and have been afterwards. The difference is thousands of women don't die horrible deaths, or aren't maimed or injured for life, because of them. And back-alley butchers will assuredly return if she gets her way on the law.

I remember my grandmother telling me some real horror stories about friends, classmates and family who endured illegal abortions. One of them was given no anesthetic at all, just some whiskey and a rag to bite down on. Makes me sick to even think of it.

[JustAnotherGen]

86. Thanks for that insight

LiberalHistorian. I'll remember that.

[HappyMe]

88. I'm just dumbfounded.

I can see a woman saying that they wouldn't have one, as that is her choice. What I can't see is making this a crime and deciding for everyone else what it is they should be doing.

[Ilsa]

105. Thank you. Somehow, I missed

those revealing discussions.

For the first time, I may put someone on Ignore.

[lapislzi]

69. WHO on this thread is expressing sympathy for Castro?

I see a poster lamenting a general lack of compassion among humanity. I see regret that the sentence was not carried through.

I see no sympathy for this monster, nor do I expect to.

Do not confuse compassion with sympathy. They aren't the same thing at all. I can express compassion over a human life that was so fucked up that the human being became a monster. That's not sympathy.

Are we clear?

[liberalhistorian]

90. Well-put, I do agree with that.

I am not grave-dancing or rejoicing, but neither, however, am I in sackcloth and ashes mourning. And my compassion for what screwed him up so badly to become what he became does NOT equate to sympathy for him or victim-blaming at all.

[lapislzi]

92. Thanks. What we're never, ever going to see here, is justice.

The best approximation of that concept would have been for the sentence/punishment to be carried out until the prisoner expired of "natural" causes (as opposed to a premature end by his own hand). There is no "appropriate" length of sentence, as evinced by the impossibly long consecutive prison terms. The person did not belong in society. Another society would have executed him. We didn't.

OK, he's out of society. I guess that's the best outcome. What else is to be said?

[REP]

104. You must have replied to the wrong person

I'm not the one who compared Castro to the victims of the Holocaust; nor am I the poster who calls women who have abortions "murderers." No worries; it's easy to reply to the wrong post

[lapislzi]

109. My bad, sorry.

Too much yelling and arm-waving. Thanks for cutting me some slack

[bunnies]

84. I was on the jury...

3-3 to leave it. Unfucking real.

[Ilsa]

106. I thought it was a slam dunk for over-the-top

by definition. Equating a violent sociopath to innocent Holocaust victims is totally absurd.

Letting that comment stand has pretty much destroyed my trust in DU's jury system. I guess it depends on time of day, etc.

[bunnies]

110. Me too.

I was juror #1.

At Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:46 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

And the Jews that the Nazis gassed were nothing but vermin, too, right?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3594519

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

I can't believe hd went there: comparing Castro to Hitler's victims.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:50 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: This post is the definition of "over the top". Its not even a rational reply. wow.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Don't like it much, but don't think it violates CS.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Silly and inappropriate, but not abusive.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Th1onein]

117. We are all victims of something, or someone, Ilsa. Compassion for the least of us

is a Democratic value. Castro was a sick, sick man. But evil? I don't know that, and neither do you.

One thing that I always thought liberals did NOT do, though, was grave dance.

[seabeyond]

124. if this is only about grave dancing i can totally back you. but, your post compared innocent people

murdered to a guilty man taking his own life. HUGE difference. and OFFENSIVE difference.

i do not grave dance. and you wont see me in any of the threads doing that. but, that isnt what your post was.

[Th1onein]

125. Seabeyond, my post compared the DEHUMANIZATION of one person to the

DEHUMANIZATION of a group of people. That's all it did. If you think otherwise, you totally missed the point.

[riqster]

53. No, but the Nazis who commited those crimes were scumbuckets.

Glad they were hanged.

[Th1onein]

118. I don't believe in the death penalty. I think it lowers us as a society and as human beings.

[richmwill]

56. Poor comparison, as others have pointed out.

Would I have mourned the death of Hitler as much as you are mourning the death of Castro? Not at all. Did you cry when Bin Laden was killed, too?

[lapislzi]

64. Godwin's Law so early in the thread?

I'm disappointed.

PS--You lose.

[liberalhistorian]

77. First of all, that is the most ridiculous, asinine, inane,

absurd, nutball, STRETCH of a comparison that I have EVER heard in my life, and I've heard some doozies, believe me.

Secondly, you are a total hypocrite because if it had been a woman who'd had an abortion or a doctor who'd performed one, you'd be cheering it on.

Now, I agree with you that I take no pleasure in this man's suicide and that every life is ultimately important, no one is an island and all that. And I'm also totally against the death penalty no matter who it is. But that doesn't mean that I'm gonna mourn in sackcloth and ashes over it, either, frankly. Although I do think it would have been far worse of a punishment for him to spend the rest of his miserable life in cramped captivity, like he had no problem with subjecting his victims to. He probably figured that, too, which is why he did what he did.

[cliffordu]

79. Jesus Fucking Christ on a cracker.

Really?

You think those two things equate?

WTF is wrong with you?

[Ilsa]

107. It was alerted on, but

half of the jury didn't think it was over the top.

[cliffordu]

108. Hmm... Send me a copy will ya??

[seabeyond]

122. i wanna see. nt

[zappaman]

98. Wow.

This ridiculous post might have broken the internet.

[seabeyond]

116. ya. i am going to have to say.... pretty damn disgusting. dont you feel any shame? nt

[LordGlenconner]

66. Well said

It's stunning there people here defending this lowlife.

[Buns_of_Fire]

9. On the other hand, should the patient weep when the tumor is excised?

This is where I occasionally disagree with John Donne. The tumor, in this case, chose to remove itself. No celebration, no sorrow -- it's gone. Good. Throw it in the trash and move on.

[Th1onein]

35. Sorry, but we are better than grave dancers.

[REP]

42. You must have forgotten he caused one of his victims to miscarry repeatedly

Or does that make her the "murderer" to you?

[Sheldon Cooper]

45. !!

Touche! Maybe it's only a problem when a pregnant woman terminates an unwanted pregnancy?

[REP]

58. But beating, torturing, starving a woman until she miscarries = all is forgiven

Women make evil, selfish choices. Men deserve forgiveness. I guess.

[Sheldon Cooper]

65. Kinda sounds that way, doesn't it?

[liberalhistorian]

83. Oh, SNAP!

LOL

Sadly enough, there are people who WOULD think that poor Michelle Knight was to blame for her forced miscarriages.

[Buns_of_Fire]

71. No, not dancing. Not mourning, either. Just glad he's gone for good.

A post below called it "beneficial erosion," which is more in keeping with the poem than my somewhat clumsy metaphor.

But I truly believe that his death does not diminish mankind one iota.

[Ilsa]

111. Agreed.

I think there are a few individuals in the world that represent so much evil by causing so much pain, that mankind is healthier without them breathing air.

[Th1onein]

119. You aren't in a position to know what his death did or did not do, are you?

Because you don't stand in his victims' shoes. Wouldn't you think that the innocents that he imprisoned and tortured deserved to see him come to justice? I do.

[aikoaiko]

47. I like to think of his suicide as beneficial erosion.

There is nothing un-liberal about being glad a predator is no more.

[Scootaloo]

126. I don't celebrate

But frankly I'm not mourning, either. More of a "huh, so I guess that happened" thing

[BootinUp]

3. Hannibal just couldn't resist.

[B Calm]

5. That saved us taxpayers a lot of money!

[LuvNewcastle]

8. That was my first thought.

It was probably the only decent thing the scumbag ever did in his rotten life.

[liberal N proud]

10. He couldn't take a dose of his own medicine

imprisonment

[LisaLynne]

11. That was my first thought.

What a coward.

[Botany]

12. somebody messed up to allow Castro to commit suicide .....

.... but sooner or later he was going to die in prison but this is way too soon
he should have suffered for years.

[vankuria]

13. Not jumping for joy

I think he got off way too easy, by killing himself he no longer has to pay for what he did. In a statement made by one of his victims in court she stated something to the effect of him having to think about what he's done for the rest of his life and to suffer the way he made his victims suffer.

As for saving tax payers money, I can only hope his family doesn't sue the state of Ohio for failing to protect him (from himself in this case).

Whatever anyone thinks, what matters is what his victims feel about this. Perhaps this might be true closure for them.

[Heather MC]

14. my first thought was what a whimp

He can dish out but he can't take it. I just hope it hurt like hell

[perdita9]

15. Shame on the prison system!

This is a complete failure on the part of the guards. I'm sure his three victims are pissed Castro was able to take himself out instead of being forced to deal with his term of punishment.

[noamnety]

16. If I were a victim of violent crime

I'd probably feel more closure if the guy was dead instead of knowing he was still around. I'm not advocating for the death penalty, I oppose that, just saying that I wouldn't be pissed that the guy was no longer around.

[WCLinolVir]

26. You would, but it wouldn't be what you expect.

The phrase it ain't over till it's over comes to mind. For people abused as little children it is amazing how the death of an abuser can effect you. You didn't even know that you were holding your breath for that long. And yet the death doesn't magically dissolve the emotional ties, but it sure makes it easier. Sometimes even the death makes you feel like you were cheated. But I have to say, I wish my parents had died a lot earlier. It would have been a gift. Horrid to say, but true.
The sad part is, once you are a victim of a violent traumatic crime, you don't ever feel completely safe. And you have to rebuild your functional world with that construct.

[magical thyme]

31. yup.

I literally breathed a sigh of relief when my mother died. I didn't realize I'd been holding my breath waiting to be truly free of her for 56 goddam years. Of course I knew in my head she'd never be able to hurt me again. But there was always a little knot of fear inside me half expecting her to show up shrieking and raging like something out of the exorcist...until there wasn't.

[WCLinolVir]

40. Isn't it amazing??

When my sister told me my mother was dying I was so relieved. It was unexpected. Yeah, I was finally safe from this person. I had already dropped contact with her. My sister asked me to fly out to help with her care. I live across the continent now and could not do it. Nor did I want to. I knew the only reason I would was my sister, who is still in denial. My mother had resources for care but my sister insisted on helping out. I just had to let it go. I am only sorry I did not truly confront her for everything that transpired years ago. At the last moment she changed her will disinheriting all of her biological children. All 6 of us. Just had to get in a last dig.

[amuse bouche]

21. Prisons are extremely understaffed

Go work at one for a while. You will come back singing a different tune

[Swede Atlanta]

25. I can agree with your sense of outrage but...

as others have posted prisons are severely understaffed and often the guards are inadequately trained to deal with these types of prisoners. I am not generalizing about everyone involved in the prison system but I think that is a fair assessment looking from the outside.

Your outrage, however, should be more precisely directed to the voters of Ohio and the Ohio legislature and Governor. They are the ones that have decided on the level of funding, training, etc. in their state prison system. It is easy to blame "the system" but that is too anonymous. The system is the one designed, funded and maintained by state politicians as voted in by the electorate.

So if Ohioians are mad about this then they need to look in the mirror and decide what they want to do to improve the situation.

[freshwest]

33. Agreed. Also, this is part of the reason the death penalty was reinstated in Texas.

Having lived there during the moratorium against the death penalty, people were content that serial killers would be kept locked up for life and never be loose in society again. Because they had the proclivity and could not be talked out of their sense of entitlement to do such acts.

Then came the 'save the taxpayers money, it's not a problem anymore, the government is too big' and 'rehabilitation is a bleeding heart liberal waste of money' memes that produced budget cutting and hampered treatment or recording of what condition these folks were in.

After a while the Supreme Court ruled that the underfunding had created a system which was in itself, wrong from overcrowding and inhumane, just as they were considering the death penalty. The result of that was that more money would have to be spent or prisoners would have to be set free to relieve overcrowding.

The state took the latter choice and released a lot of people who citizens thought would never be loose again. Several notorious serial killers were released who immediately stole vehicles, robbed, kidnapped, tortured and or raped and murdered people the same day they were freed. They kept going until caught. That's when the support for the death penalty grew again.

But it was the fault of the conservatives who did not want to pay taxes to maintain a proper system of rehabiliation or long term confinement to keep the public safe.

It always gets back the legislature, but the blame is affixed to the judiciary or executives, or anyone that can be seen as liberal when being liberal does not mean raise hell and get away with it, by any stretch of the imagination. It means keeping society functioning and safe in that way guaranteeing freedom for all who have the willingness or capacity to be so.

While I couldn't access the LATimes article to see the details as to how Castro, or if Castro alone, hung himself, the ideas bandied about here that he did it himself with a rope, strikes me as wrong in two ways. What is the proper use of rope in a prison environment?

They're not practicing lassoing horses, I'm sure, and they have shackles and cuffs, so they would have a need for rope lying around. I've used it in construction, or tying things down in transport, but it's not a thing that is available for no reason. It's not like you rent a place to live and have a check off list of 'chairs, bed, table, oh, and I need a rope just in case I want to kill myself here.'

And you must know how to make a hangman's noose and it's not that common a skill. It's also not a fast way to die or necessarily silent way to die, and if he was still in the intake process, he would have been under observation unless they were understaffed. If a guard or inmate did observe him doing so and did not interfere, that would be an illegal act. Even death row inmates are not allowed to commit suicide.

Any prison guard that facilitated this could be brought up on charges. Any inmate that helped him or forced him into this would be charged with murder. If he did this with bedsheets or using his clothing, premeditation would not be credible. But it would be if a person has been suggested, gave him a rope. At any rate, this is an unlawful killing due to a lack of supervision, or outright murder by someone who forced this. That is certainly not unknown.

And no, I don't feel sympathy for him one way or the other. But it sets a bad precedent and is a violation of his and society's rights and the court's authority for anyone to help him to end his life. It seems rather handy, and I don't go with the 'save the tax payers money' meme, either.

Because would not those same voices argue that another person, who was found wrongfully convicted, should not be 'saving taxpayer money' by either execution or committing suicide to escape an unjust or brutal system?

And I don't call him a coward, but regard him as a particularly loathesome specimen of a human I would not want to spend any time helping. But if it was a suicide, an assisted suicide or murder, noe of those show cowardice but do show either mental disorder or a crime being committed.

The brave and coward talk is about people with the liberty to choose, on a battle field, not in a prison cell. In such circumstances that person is helpless and unable to harm others, which is one of the arguments against the death penalty. That it should not be imposed upon someone who is rendered harmless to society.

While I don't rejoice at his death, anyone who does, is free to do so without any complaint from me, either. At times the mind simply wants to forget about something or have it over with.

Just my two cents.

[riqster]

27. He was in protective custody, not on suicide watch.

Scheduled to be checked on every 30 minutes. I expect a cunning monster like him could hang himself in half an hour.

[Niceguy1]

30. the only way to prevent it

Wiuld have been to treat him the way PV1 manning was treated..which dunfound to be inhumane..

[magical thyme]

32. baloney. his 3 victims probably are able to breathe again for the first time in a decade plus

Now they know he will not turn up in their lives again. No escape. No release. Good fucking riddance.

Personally, I'm glad he spared us the cost of feeding, housing, guarding and health care.

[Renew Deal]

52. He wasn't considered a risk

You would be the same person raving if he was kept in solitary confinement.

[Tanuki]

17. He indicated at his sentencing that he wanted visitation rights with the daughter

born from his rape of Amanda Berry. I'm pretty sure this would never have been granted, but at least his victims will be spared being dragged through any of that. I would never wish for the suicide of another human being, but since that was his choice, I wish he would have done it ten years ago and spared those young women years of horror and captivity.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. That was fast

May Amanda Berry's mother rest in peace.

[HappyMe]

19. I just don't care.

A fucking coward to the end.

[backscatter712]

20. He didn't suffer nearly enough.

I'm for a sci-fi kind of punishment. IIRC, he got a full thousand year prison sentence.

Make it ten thousand. And give him life extension technology so he'll have to serve the entire sentence. Yes, he'll be bored.

Or give him the full Marvin. "The first ten million years were the worst, and so were the second ten million. After the third ten million years, I went into a bit of a decline."

[0rganism]

115. going sci-fi? maybe easier to achieve with VR...

...something that simulates the passage of time at high speed.
10 boring same-old simulated days per day. No one to interact with but AIs.
Prisoner would be immobilized, catheterized, and fed through iv during this process.
Castro could have served his full term in a mere 100 years, and he wouldn't have been able to hang himself along the way.

[Swede Atlanta]

22. I have mixed emotions......

On the one hand I feel he did not suffer enough. He kept those girls that matured into women for over a decade and yet his total incarceration was less than one year. I have always said that the death penalty is the easy way out. If you had to choose between being locked up 23 hours a day in a tiny room for the rest of your life versus going onto a gurney and injected with a cocktail of drugs that take you away from that existence, which would you choose?

On the other hand the taxpayers of Ohio will not have to pay to provide for him for the rest of his life and his victims can rest knowing he is gone. I am not trying to speak on their behalf because only they can express their own feelings about this turn of events but one fact is certain - he can never do what he did to another human being and has no chance of escape, etc.

[Orrex]

23. An obvious suicide

One might even call it a dead giveaway.

[riqster]

29. Gallows humor, in the most literal sense. Nt

[Woof_Woof]

24. Good riddance to bad rubbish...

[Octafish]

28. Ohio taxpayers just saved $45,000 per year for who knows how long.

Or Jail Inc just lost $45,000 per year in revenue for who knows how long.

[Romulox]

36. Why did they accept a plea in a case in which the accused was so obviously guilty?

And how did a man on every-30-minute suicide watch get a hold of something to make a rope out of?

This case doesn't smell right to me...

[Sheldon Cooper]

46. He was NOT under a suicide watch. He was simply in protective custody.

He hung himself with a bedsheet.

And they accepted the guilty plea instead of having a death penalty trial because they may not have been successful in getting that sentence - the only person(s) Castro is accused of killing is/are fetuses. Why not save the state the insane cost of a death penalty trial and endless appeals by taking the LWOP plea?

[Romulox]

48. He was being checked every 30 minutes.

For what was he being checked on "every 30 minutes" if not a suicide watch?

The argument about fetuses is an utter red herring, and I, for one, am not biting.

[Sheldon Cooper]

49. Well, you don't really have to 'bite' anything.

I really don't understand what more you would have wanted the state of OH to do. They got him LWOPed with almost no expense to the state, comparatively speaking. What's the point of doing more, other than satisfying a perverted blood lust?

Anyone who is in protective custody is checked periodically - if he was on an actual suicide watch, it would have been at least every fifteen minutes if not more frequently. Anyone can kill themselves if given 30 minutes to do so, so it's clearly not to prevent suicide. Also, he would not have been given bedsheets if there was concern about suicide. And yet that's what he used.

[Romulox]

50. I was under the misapprehension that rape was considered a "capital" crime. I withdraw that

objection. I just finished researching the matter, and I was wrong.

Anyone who is in protective custody is checked periodically - if he was on an actual suicide watch, it would have been at least every fifteen minutes if not more frequently. Anyone can kill themselves if given 30 minutes to do so, so it's clearly not to prevent suicide. Also, he would not have been given bedsheets if there was concern about suicide. And yet that's what he used.

Perhaps EVERY prisoner is checked every 30 minutes, and I was mislead by news accounts. Do you know if that's the case?

[riqster]

59. Not every prisoner is checked at the same intervals

His was 30 minutes. It's tailored to the PC and situation.

[Romulox]

63. I guess the cascading logic is this: if you're being checked, you're being checked for SOMETHING...

The idea that nobody had an idea this guy was a suicide risk seems suspect to me. That said, not one tear was shed by me this day...

[riqster]

67. Not everyone in PC is a suicide risk.

Some are checked to make sure they aren't wrecking their cells, trying to escape, or to make sure no other prisoners have slipped into the cell to abuse, rape or kill him.

[Romulox]

70. Castro was obviously a suicide risk.

Obviously someone had to evaluate him for suicide risk, and that evaluation was obviously wrong. This is self-evident.

[riqster]

72. And you got your medical and psychology degrees where, exactly?

Seriously - the man fooled everybody for a decade about who and what he was. You think he couldn't fool a jailhouse shrink for a few months? Fuck yeah, he could pull that off.

Second-guessing experts only works in simple situations, and sometimes not even then.

[Romulox]

73. He killed himself. Logically, that means he was a suicide risk.

The idea that nobody could've known that this infamous man serving a 1000 year sentence might be a suicide risk is silly, so I'm not sure why you want to argue it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

76. By your logic, anyone facing a life term should be classified a suicide risk,

and prisons should hire enough personnel to continuously watch all of them, all the time. Good luck with that.

[Romulox]

94. No, not "anyone". But infamous criminals serving 1000 year sentences?

Nice snark, btw. Was I less than cordial with you?

[riqster]

81. Your syllogism fails, as do so many, because of an underlying premise.

Assuming that his suicide risk was obvious is specious. The authorities have every reason to exceed the need with respect to security, so if there were such indications they would have upped the security, if only to mitigate their liability.

It's easy to draw conclusions and make judgements based on evidence that appears after the fact. But to pretend that the people involved with the situation could have foreseen this event is hindsight at best.

Hindsight, as one of my uncles famously said, "ain't nothin' but lookin' out yer backside".

[Romulox]

93. Well, for starters, it's not a syllogism... nt

[Romulox]

96. BTW, I never said that "his suicide risk was obvious". I said it is now obvious that he was a risk.

That is an important distinction. I suspect you had to modify my argument because you cannot possibly argue against the latter point.

"But to pretend that the people involved with the situation could have foreseen this event is hindsight at best."

Of course it is possible to have foreseen Castro's suicide. That's also not debatable. That's where the very concept of "suicide watch" comes from, after all.

You're arguing whether his suicide should have been foreseen. Not whether it could have.

[lapislzi]

74. We don't know how diligent his minders were in their minding.

As another poster has pointed out, they may have been criminally negligent in their minding of the prisoner, believing (correctly) that nobody would be especially sorry to see the prisoner die by his own hand.

If anyone can tell me what would or would have constituted "justice" in this case, I'm all ears. There are no good ends, none.

[Romulox]

95. That was exactly my curiosity. My two interrogators seem to think the very thought is ludicrous. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

97. Nice snark in return.

And yes, you are being ludicrous. As your other "interrogator" pointed out - Castro managed to hide his true self from every fucking person he knew for ten fucking years. It's not inconceivable that he could have fooled prison personnel in the two short months he was detained. It wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. But thank god you're here to set everyone straight - maybe you ought to contact the Ohio board of corrections and offer your services. I'm sure they'll be gobsmacked to find out that some inmates are suicide risks.

[Romulox]

99. You seem to have an emotional investment in arguing points I didn't make. I don't get your hostility

[Sheldon Cooper]

102. So, you have no other argument except to reduce me to emotions and hostility.

Which is a good way to minimize my point, right? Well, you are bewildering to me as well, so I'm done with this. Have the last word.

[Romulox]

103. I haven't a clue what your point is, and you seem unable to articulate it.

I honestly haven't a clue what you are trying to say, or what you are trying to disagree with. If that is just one more reason for you to take offense, well...

[Romulox]

101. BTW, I even admitted my error to you, upthread. You're in full blown "no quarter" mode, nonetheless

What value/belief of mine are you attempting to refute? It may help to refocus the discussion if you could restate it.

[Renew Deal]

55. A plea deal for life in prison

Because it avoided a trial?

I read that he wasn't considered a risk. Where did you see that he was on a 30 minute watch?

[Romulox]

57. We went over this, upthread. My mistake re: rape as a capital crime. nt

[Renew Deal]

61. It's OK

[Ilsa]

112. He used a bed sheet. nt

[Romulox]

113. Yes, I gathered as much, thanks. My question was more about whether he was considered a suicide

risk--such people aren't usually given access to bedsheets, belts, shoelaces, etc.

Anyhow, I've made a poster extremely cross with me for asking about this, for reasons I don't full understand. I think I will leave it alone, as I don't really know what to think, other than a residual outrage at this man's crimes.

[Ilsa]

114. I think the outrage about his crimes is where we need to remain united.

As a recovered rape victim, I won't pretend that his death saddens me in any way, or that I won't rejoice that he ended his life on his own. I simply won't be that dishonest.

[Vashta Nerada]

38. He got off too easy.

He should have rotted in prison for decades.

[JustAnotherGen]

87. +1

Seems unfair that his punk ass didn't even get to rot in there for ten years.

[rl6214]

44. Good

[get the red out]

51. I'm sorry he got out of his punishment

But I'm not sad that his life has ended.

[DinahMoeHum]

60. Calling him an animal is an insult to the animal kingdom. . .

In the animal kingdom, the female gestures to the male that she is ready for mating - giving consent as it were.

Ariel Castro was far, far worse than an animal.

Sorry, but I'm glad he's gone.

[msanthrope]

68. Good. Let's hope his family doesn't decide to sue the state. nt

[Loudly]

75. Every incarcerated person deserves access to a length of rope

and a sturdy overhead pipe, beam or hook to fasten it to.

It's the humane thing to do for anyone on the inside.

[lapislzi]

80. Really? What about the wrongly convicted?

Perhaps they suffer total despair of ever winning an appeal or parole. Should they just off themselves to avoid gumming up the system?

I'm glad you're not my jailer.

[Loudly]

85. Why would you deprive any such unfortunates the choice to opt out?

Forced confinement is preferable?

[lapislzi]

89. Dead is permanent.

If you're that determined to off yourself, you'll find a way. I'm a firm believer in going out on your own terms. But stacking the deck just isn't fair. Giving people the means and opportunity when they've already got the motive...is cruel in its own way.

[Yavin4]

78. DTWAF

Did the world a favor.

[joeybee12]

91. Am I the only one who thinks this guy got some help?

I mean, it could be a suicide, it could have been made to look like a suicide...he didn't have many fans.

[zappaman]

100. Outstanding!

[rocktivity]

121. I guess the prospect of years of imprisonment didn't appeal to him.

Good riddance.


rocktivity