When is it your responsibility to stop a bully? Would you like to be a vigilante?

[andym]

In a scenario where you are the strongest kid on the playground and there are no adults available, do you stop a bully from beating up a smaller kid? Or is it not your business, so just ignore the situation and walk away. If you believe you should stop the bully, how far do you go? Ask him to stop? Tell him to stop? Get other kids to ask or tell him to stop? Physically intercede knowing that the bully (and perhaps you) is going to get hurt?

Of course, in this scenario, nobody is likely to die. If the scenario was a similar one where it looks like an adult bully might kill a weaker combatant, but you are such a good fighter that you are likely to prevail against the bully, though there would be risk of killing the bully if physical blows occur, what would you do? Walk away? Call the police and hope they get there in time (even though they are far away)? or Fight?

If you don't take action, you could justify it by an appeal to minding your own business, or a belief in nonviolence. If you do take action, you are essentially a vigilante. So what would you do?

Feel free to relate this to the current debate about Syria, although the principles involved are far more general.

[cloudbase]

1. The playground is your area.

The bullying in the playground across town isn't.

[wtmusic]

5. To devil-advocate

you would ignore genocide if it wasn't in your area?

[atreides1]

8. Genocide?

When did this become one of the talking points?

[wtmusic]

12. Whenever playground became the talking point

The point is, where do you draw the line?

[cloudbase]

11. That moves the argument from individual action

to national action. A country acts in what it perceives to be its own best interests. If I'm the decision maker in this case, I'd have to weigh whether any outcome will be beneficial to my nation.

The oath of office is to protect the nation, not to be a nice guy. Reality has a way of getting in the way of idealism at times.

Obama and Kerry are making the argument that our national security is at stake, but have not provided a single detail to convince me that's the case. Should they actually do so, I would consider a reevaluation of my position. Until then, I'll just have to say that there's something of a shortage of trust on my part.

[wtmusic]

14. You believe that intervention in Yugoslavia was wrong?

[Blecht]

18. I like apples

[wtmusic]

22. And diversion

[quinnox]

2. I'm not a killer, so I would not risk that

I can't imagine what people who have killed must have on their conscience 24/7. No wonder so many soldiers end up doing terrible things to themselves, or others, and having such mental issues and problems.

[bunnies]

3. Well, I certainly wouldnt HELP the bully beat up the smaller kid.

aka bombing Syria.

[rug]

4. Get back to me when you organize a squad of fifth graders with uranium tipped drones.

[denbot]

30. Drones aren't tipped with uranium.

It would affect their flight trim. As for organizing fifth graders, they were laid out in rows back in Damascus.

[rug]

34. They're easily equipped with depleted uranium.

The purpose is to avoid any dead more children line up in rows.

There is no analogy whatsoever to schoolyard bullying.

[bemildred]

6. How many people am I going to kill to stop the bully?

If it's more than one, the bully, it's a bad idea as a humanitarian effort, and likely you will get yourself in trouble even then.

[mike_c]

7. What if you had already agreed not to be a vigilante?

For crying out loud, we're signatories of the U.N. Charter, which we have accepted as international law. It forbids wars of aggression which specifically include

Attack by its land, naval or air forces, with or without a declaration of war, on the territory, vessels or aircraft of another State.

absent a direct and imminent threat, i.e. for self defense. Not only are we signers, but the U.N. Charter grew out of the Nuremberg protocols that we were directly responsible for. The international ban on aggressive war-- which admittedly, we've ignored whenever it suits the political whims of the administration-- derives from the work of U.S. chief justice Robert Jackson.

"Aggression is the use of force by a State or Government against another State or Government, in any manner, whatever the weapons used and whether openly or otherwise, for any reason or for any purpose other than individual or collective self-defence or in pursuance of a decision or recommendation by a competent organ of the United Nations".

[wtmusic]

15. Agree

and Obama should take it to a vote of the UNSC, make Russia vote no, and thus make them responsible.

[searchingforlight]

9. I wish it was this simple.

This is more like a group of bullies beating up on another group which may contain some bullies and you recognizing the fact that you may be a bully.

[SummerSnow]

10. I was in this situation when I was 6 years old..

I was in the first grade. There was a girl in my class named " Tanya". She was very small, quiet and meek. Two other girls in my class didn't like "Tanya " cause she had long hair. They would threaten to cut it , and I would hear them say they were going to beat her up.I told my mother about it and she told me to report it to the teacher. So I did. The teacher told me stop bei g a tattle - tale and nothing was going to happen like that in her class. So she did nothing. Well the threat was looming and during lunch these girls approached Tanya with some lie. One of the girls accused Tanya of talking about her behind her back and cried said she never saud anything bad. Well of course these girls were making a case for a fight. I jumped in and told them to leave her alone .I was told with a fist in my face to shut up or I'll get beat up too. Yes I was scared. Well when we left school that day and went home I had a low grade fever that got worse. I wasn't able to go to school for a whole week. One of my classmates who lived across the street sent over the homework I was to miss. She told me the two girls beat up Tanya on her way home and it was not pleasant. She also said that the teacher told the class that Tanya wasn't coming back to the school and the two girls were suspended. I still wish I was there I would have fought them even though I was scared. I never seen Tanya again. But those two horrid girls did come back to school.

[Bay Boy]

16. That's a lot of drama for a 1st grade class...

...criminy!

[andym]

23. Thank you for this heartfelt response.

I think we all have past situations, which we somehow would like to change.

[sibelian]

13. This is sickly, neurotic garbage.

Why are you trying to pull the wool over everybody's eyes?

[Bay Boy]

17. I beleive it's called discussing a subject...

...so discuss it and leave out the name calling.

[sibelian]

25. It's not "discussing" a subject

it's DISTORTING IT.

[Bay Boy]

27. If it's distorted...

...then make a comment that clears it up. And stop the name calling.

[SummerSnow]

19. I grew up in a tough neighborhood. didn't reply to please you. I have no benefit to lie.

some kids are that bad. maybe you grew up in mayberry

[sibelian]

26. I grew up in Dumbarton in Scotland. Go look it up if you like. nt.

[99Forever]

20. When the "playground" is...

.., halfway around the world and there are multiple "adults" IN THE REGION , standing with their hands in their pockets doing nothing to stop "the bully," why the fuck should I do a thing?

Dumb analogy, but an excellent fail.

[TheKentuckian]

21. The first bully the big kid must put in check is himself.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. are you suggesting that terrorist attacks against the United States are legitimate?

Because you feel that would constitute standing up to the world's biggest bully?

My problem with you suggesting that is - what would be the predictable consequences? Would it make matters better or worse for the victims of American bullying? . No doubt in the aftermath of September 11, 2001 - there were many, many people who said - "FINALLY someone stood up to the biggest bully in the history of the world. " But in realty they not only killed a lot of innocent people - they unleashed all kinds of reactionary forces that actually made matter much worse - not better for those under American hegemony who are the most vulnerable recipients of American bullying.

[allprogressnow]

28. I would tell the bully to fight me.

I've discovered that when I take a stand against bullies, they run away. We must put children school bullies in prison for the rest of their existences. All of them. As soon as they become adults, send them overseas to search for improvised explosive devices and landmines.

[rl6214]

29. If you see it, it is your responsibility to take some sort of action

It is not your responsibility to patrol the playground and be a vigilante.

[Cerridwen]

31. I want to live in a binary world or a peace-prone world. I don't.

Complexities, historical events, screwed up priorities, the "love of money," and the "invisible hand of the market," and various tools used to control "others," to have power over "others," ensure that peace will not be a common goal of those with the power over "others" to control and manipulate. Please note, I didn't say anti-war, I said peace. Those two concepts are neither mutually exclusive nor the same. It's a both/and way of thinking.

“Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected are as outraged as those who are.”
― Benjamin Franklin

[MineralMan]

32. It's a dilemma, isn't it?

Thanks for pointing the dilemma out.

[backscatter712]

33. Except the consequences of stepping in this fight add up to far more than a bloody nose.

Worst case scenario in an elementary school fight, somebody gets punched, maybe has a bloody nose and a black eye.

Worst case scenario of the proposed Syria intervention: See Iraq.