Kerry is NOT helping win me over

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 05:59 PM - Edit history (5)

I read Obama's surprising Rose Garden speech as paraphrasable in these terms:

Okay, the bum's rush to war to war didn't work and maybe it shouldn't have worked. You are not on board, and I get that. But I think this remains an important thing, so we'll all take a deep breath and start over with a real debate where we don't try to scare you into war, or sentimentally outrage you into war, but rather have a reasoned argument about international moral consensus and its responsibilities.

But then I turn on the TV today to hear Kerry on Meet the Press pumping the same old lowest-common-denominator tripe.

"Assad has now joined Adolph Hitler and Saddam Hussein in using these weapons."

Godwin in one. Well played, Mister Secretary!

If there is a case for bombing Syria to be made here it isn't some 2003 Bush era clown show about how Rick Savage is going to defeat the baby-eating Iron Sheik.

Hitler was a very, very, very bad man. For whatever reason, he was not big on chemical weapons and the German military's general non-reliance on chemical weapons during WWII is sort of a famous moral anomaly, given Hitler's utter lack of restraint along other moral dimensions. (Hitler was the most famous person to have been a battlefield casualty of chemical weapons, at Ypres in 1918. I don't know whather that affected his view of their ban.) Sarin gas was invented in Germany in 1938. It was produced and weaponized in artillery shells. They had it to use, but didn't use it. This was not because Hitler was a nice man. He was not. He was an infinitely bad man... who just happens to not be much associated with the sort of gas munitions that were banned in the Geneva Gas-War Protocol of 1925, and a puzzling example of violating international norms of use of battlefield chemical weapons... almost the only crime against humanity he isn't known for.

So why does Kerry invoke Hitler? Because doing so is a cheap way to (try to) stampede reactive dopes. It is also kind of a hallmark of the bad faith national security argument.

Is Assad conducting "ethnic cleansing"? Maybe so. It's an important moral point to examine. It's an interesting case to seek to make. It can not, however, be made by yelling "Hitler" a bunch of times until people do whatever you want.

"Because Hitler," is not an argument.

And the second name on the roll-call of infamy, Saddam Hussein? WTF? Where to start... like Hitler, Saddam was a very bad man. He is, however, the worst possible poster boy for why we need to get involved in the Arab world.

Who the fuck is Kerry even talking to? Is there some "Mor Irak, pleaz" constituency to appeal to?

Yes, Saddam Hussein used Sarin on a LOT of people. Mostly in a war we backed him in, and in which we gave him intel as to where to aim the shells for maximum killing effect.

And Saddam Hussein is also the most famous historical example of someone falsely accused of WMD related crimes. Just the worst possible name to throw around in this context unless you think of your audience as credulous dolts.

I am somewhat persuadable. I am willing to listen to a case for some action or activity against Syrian regime WMD. Very skeptically, but at least with an open mind.

Talk to us like a nation of adults considering a perplexing moral issue with two sides. Spare us the fucking okey-doke.

.

[Bluenorthwest]

1. Kerry tried to sell the Iraq War as well, WMD, yellowcake, fear, panic etc

He was so wrong about that and thousands died but he has enough cold arrogance to think he is still a valid voice on such things. He lied us into war. Worst mistake the US has made in modern times, Kerry helped make that mistake.
Is anyone who opposed invading Iraq with a real vote on board with this? Or is it just the Shock and Awe Crew?

[karynnj]

20. NO he didn't - you are lying

He did vote for the IWR but everything else you said is a lie

[AnotherMcIntosh]

26. Kerry's posture on unlimited wars in the Middle-East was explained by him years ago:

"On December 14, 2001, 3 months after the attacks of 9/11, Kerry said on Larry King Live that "I think we clearly have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that we continue against, for instance, Saddam Hussein."

"Kerry said on October 9, 2002; "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Bush relied on that resolution in ordering the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#Iraq

The genius behind the War on Terror is that there is no one who can surrender.

[bvar22]

29. That is scary stuff, lifted straight from PNAC.

Thanks.

[dennis4868]

2. Why does he

need to win you over? Hahaha!

[morningfog]

14. Clearly, Kerry and Obama don't think they need to win anyone over. They'll have thier damn war

with or without anyone, including this country.

[dennis4868]

23. Oh sure

Crazy talk!

[morningfog]

24. You haven't been paying attention.

[dennis4868]

25. exactly...

I am not paying attention...that must be it...haha!

[MNBrewer]

3. Excellent post, thanks!

[polichick]

4. "Spare us the fucking okey-doke" - LOL! Yes, please do.

[reusrename]

5. Do they really think the way they talk?

I do wish the prophet Orwell had been wrong about us.

[Peregrine Took]

6. I have rarely seen anthing more offputting that that sentorian manner of his.

He talks down to us like we are simpletons who must be instructed on how to think.

[roguevalley]

9. a person wrote a book about reporters .. I wish I could remember

who and there is a bit in this book that talks about David Gregory probably would kill his granny for his sunday show and the like. One of the quotes in it was Harry Reid talking privately to another senator that the author overheard. He was referencing how 'John Kerry has no friends'.

I thought that nailed the nebulous sort of lukewarm off putting sensation I have always had for him. He is what he is. Sad to say.

[karynnj]

22. The fact is that he does have friends - friends who have been close to him since college

[hughee99]

21. Which is sad, because we send the guy with the habit of doing this

to talk to other countries on our behalf.

[magical thyme]

7. Let's not forget who supplied Hussein with his Sarin.

What did we think he was going to use it for?

At this point, I am not persuadable in any way, shape or form. The more their mouths move, the angrier I get.

[MissDeeds]

8. Same here

I keep thinking of Kerry's impassioned words regarding the Viet Nam war. Too bad he is no longer that man.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Maybe he's talking to the 'Baggers ...

they love that kinda bullshit.

[durablend]

11. Wouldn't be surprised

That's the only people our supposed elected leaders seem to be desperately trying to win over nowadays.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Aha, I was wondering where the Assad is Hitler and we must prevent a second holocaust

was coming from.

Thanks.

Forget Woodwin, it is tragically historically inaccurate.

And like you, if they gave actual adult reasons, I am somewhat pursuable... never again means never again, but, they are making the arguments children would at the school yard.

[Ocelot]

13. I hate to say this about Kerry, because I have generally liked him

But he's making a fool of himself and the United States in the eyes of the world. There, I said it.

[quinnox]

15. Oh, Jesus, this sounds like something from The Onion satire site

I can't believe they are now starting to talk about Hitler.

So when is Assad going to start invading and taking over his neighbors?

[rug]

16. I went to whitehouse.gov and searched for "hitler". This is the first thing that came up.

Whitehouse.gov - The White House

www.whitehouse.gov

President Barack Obama meets with his National Security Staff to discuss the situation in Syria, in the Situation Room of the White House, Aug. 30, 2013.

Try it.

[Ocelot]

18. Prop-a-ganda

It's legal now, you know.

"Now Legalized, US Propaganda Swears It’s ‘Fair and Accurate"
John Glaser, July 15, 2013

In May of last year I noted at this blog reports that an amendment had been slipped into the 2013 NDAA bill that nullified two U.S. laws - the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 and Foreign Relations Authorization Act in 1987 – that ban domestic propaganda. This month marks the official repeal.

link: http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/07/15/now-legalized-us-propaganda-swears-its-fair-and-accurate/

Convenient how they can brazenly churn out the aluminum tubes bullshit after July 2013. They were very quick to jump on it, and now they can throw it out with impunity as fact, even when it's not fact.

[liberalhistorian]

17. I have never been all that crazy about him

in the first place, and I certainly wasn't too thrilled about his becoming the SOS. And my reticence has been borne out so far by his less-than-stellar-and-inspiring SOS performance these past several months. And I especially share your disgust over his beating of the war drums now and his bullshit "Godwin's Law" Hitler reference, which, unfortunately, appears to be obligatory nowadays for any pol who wants to have his or her own way, in addition to internet trolls who want their own way. He's no better than Colin Powell at this point, which is beyond dismaying and disappointing.

The ONLY good thing about his becoming SOS was that it put Elizabeth Warren into the Senate and she's doing a far better job than Kerry, and a better job than he even wanted or tried to do.

[backscatter712]

19. Now I remember why he lost in 2004 to of all people, George W. Fucking Bush.

Kerry's completely tone-deaf.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. You ask, "So why does Kerry invoke Hitler?" IMO, it is a dog whistle for AIPAC and those whose

ancestors/family members had experience with Hitler.

[bvar22]

28. His appearance on the Sunday Morning Talking Heads was embarrassing.

Kerry was uncharacteristically incoherent and bumbling,
with furtive eyes,
like he knew he was lying.

Colin Powell did a much better job selling unnecessary WAR at the UN,
but Powell is a long time accomplished LIAR with a history of lying that goes back to the 60s.
I don't think that Kerry is.