Look, We have zero credibility to be talking moral outrage

[G_j]

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)

What a joke to see the US on a moral high horse preaching to the world, when our war criminals play golf and enjoy their lives. The hypocrisy is so glaringly blatant. It's simply disgusting.

If we were willing to express the least amount of contrition, sorrow or regret for many our own deeds, acknowledgment that we sell more weapons on the world stage than another country, etc., just a small reality check, we might gain a modicum of credibility. Of course, admitting to anything, or apologizing for anything is red meat for the GOP, who jump at any chance to portray Obama as "weak" or "un-American" Should that be determining our behavior? Of course not.

[polichick]

1. Most of the world agrees.

[pscot]

2. When you've been top nation for so long

is easy to believe the world was created for your edification.

[customerserviceguy]

16. It also goes hand in hand

with being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize when you've done absolutely nothing to earn it.

[RC]

23. Either before or since.

Nobel Peace Prize - Drone/helicopter double strikes. Huh? How do they fit together?

[The Straight Story]

3. In other words "What others think of me relates to whether I do the right thing or not"

Not sure that is a smart or progressive way to lead but whatever gets people by.

[G_j]

5. without showing an ounce of contrition or humility

we are not a credible voice. Let someone with cleaner hands make the case.

[qazplm]

76. first of all

there are few nations with clean hands in the world,

second, the few that do have no ability to sway anything

third, few folks actually do anything except us and a few other nations

So what you are truly advocating for is that nothing ever be done about anything, because that's the end result.

Why folks cant simply stick with "we shouldn't attack Syria because of this fact or that fact" instead of all the loopy things like Chemical weapons no big whoop, or the US isn't clean enough, or Obama = Bush, or Syria = Iraq is beyond me. It's not like there aren't good, reasonable, logical reasons that can be put forward that dont require any of that ridiculousness.

[G_j]

77. none of this speaks to credibility

which quite simply means how believable, people find you. You can't erase hypocrisy from people's minds. It's the classic "Emperor has no clothes" syndrome.

All this aside, this situation is the responsibility of the UN, not the US.

[MNBrewer]

6. Hypocrisy should always be of concern to progressives.

Maybe we should take a good long look at how we treat our OWN war criminals, for a change.

[Maedhros]

12. Dropping American bombs and missiles on funerals, weddings and first responders,

killing innocent bystanders (some who are designated "militants" only because they are military-aged males), should always be of concern to Progressives.

Not so much to Internet Hard Men pretending to be Progressives.

[whatchamacallit]

17. +Graham's Number!

[dipsydoodle]

18. Aha !

Graham's number.

[progressoid]

7. It's not a matter of what others think, but what it right.

[enlightenment]

15. Interesting.

What is "right" is always determined by what others "think".

If that were not true, then individuals could determine that it is "right" for them to engage in sexual congress with children. That it is "right" to take their neighbors property . . .

Before you make a statement like the one you made, you should consider defining "right" - and then determine how you came by that definition. If you are honest, you will find that you made it based on a body of evidence; of what you THINK of what others do.

[sibelian]

41. Er. Yah. That's pretty much the definition of how people make judgements of other people.

I'm not sure where the problem is.

[rhett o rick]

4. The moral outrage is promoted by those that will make profits from war. nm

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. True, but at least we got a new Secretary of Defense and other personnel.

Here's the old war criminal on the left.




Here's the new Secretary of Defense on the left, another Republican.



If this is a joke on us, it is not very funny.

[SummerSnow]

51. Look at him biting his finger trying to prove he's human and has blood

[otohara]

9. Our Dailly Death By Guns

doesn't give us much cred.

Are you talking about President Obama playing golf yesterday.

[G_j]

11. I wasn't specifically referring to that

I was thinking more of the previous admin.

[gulliver]

10. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You can't argue that the United States wasn't punished for the Bush/Cheney years. We're still reeling. If only the pure enforced laws and defended civilization there would be none. Assad will still be playing golf (if that is his deal) after any punishment.

[go west young man]

47. The population of the US may have paid a price in some ways...

but those that perpetrated the crime went unpunished. It was a wrong that has never been righted. And the one hope we had of making it right has cleared the perps and now wants to attack Iraq's neighbor. It doesn't sound so promising from a progressive point of view. What of all those dead innocent Iraqi's? And Obama goes off to play golf when history is repeating itself. He's more like Bush each day when it comes to foreign policy and the MIC.

[tex-wyo-dem]

64. So how exactly was the USA "punished" for the...

Bush/Cheney years? I don't remember hearing about other countries imposing economic sanctions on us or cutting off diplomatic ties. One can argue that the Iraq war helped tank our economy, but that hurt the rest of us as well as much of the world...the 1%?...not so much.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. If your government......

[RC]

26. +1000

Excellent.

[woo me with science]

28. +100000

[MotherPetrie]

32. +bazillion!

[Jasana]

40. I'm with you.

We've no business sticking our nose in into a complicated problem when we can't even get our own house in order. Every venture we've made into the ME has turned to crap and we get nothing out of it except more hatred. No more blood and treasure.

[truebluegreen]

56. Bingo!

[arely staircase]

61. +1 nt

[Enthusiast]

70. That is a simple fact................nt

[avaistheone1]

72. No one can argue with that. Period.

K&R

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. Except for that little fact that oppressed peoples of the world still look to the US

for help when they're being trampled. You may have an opinion of your own country steeped in guilt and shame,
but refugees in other countries who need our help probably don't have time to listen to lectures from Howard Zinn.

[whatchamacallit]

19. Eh... half the time we're propping up their oppressors n/t

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

25. Amen.

[Jeff Murdoch]

66. Only half? Seems low. nt

[another_liberal]

50. I disagree!

Howard Zinn is the historian of the oppressed and the powerless. I strongly disagree with your contention.

I hope you do realize, our country usually is supplying the boots which do all of that "trampling," whether they are worn by our troops or by those of our dictatorial allies.

[L0oniX]

20. No need to wonder why the gun culture exists ...when we are always at war. n/t

[indepat]

21. Spot on: so hypocritical as to be comic

The number of high-ranking people who claim our right to bomb anyone anywhere for any reason whatever is astoundingly dangerous to world order imo.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

54. We need a huge amount of low ranking people to claim their rights to oppose them.

Those high-ranking people need to be taken down a notch or two by a general strike.
They need to be made aware that it takes ALL of us to make the system run.

[indepat]

55. Big brother will not tolerate the temerity of organized opposition to the establishment,

including Wall Street, (the Occupy Wall Street movement, for example) as evidenced by its organized disruption, harassment, assaults, pepper-spraying, and arrests, among others. Those who oppose the establishment's policies or actions are unconstitutionally treated as the enemy under the thinly-veiled guise of order and public safety.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

57. A large peaceful general strike will be very hard for the Govt. to control.

For example sitting inside your house doing nothing, we need to grow a spine.

[Jesus Malverde]

22. bump... nt

[99th_Monkey]

24. You have put your finger on the real sore spot

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)

no one in the entire world except a few uninformed
bumpkins in the US thinks bombing Syria is a good idea
in the first place,

but the hypocritical stance of the US on this is not
lost on the average global citizen of the world.

Hell we use depleted uranium and white phosphorus
like it's going out of style, which most consider to be
chemical weapons.

[G_j]

37. It should be the responsibility of the UN to seek a solution

Of course Russia will no doubt seek to prevent meaningful solutions. A lot like we prevent any meaningful steps from occurring when Israel is called to task.

[Bluenorthwest]

78. We also refuse to sign the Land Mine Ban treaty, the US and 35 other countries cling to landmines

while the other 165 or so have banned them. Long after conflict ends, these mines blow kids to bits, often as they attempt to glean a living from the bombed out terrain we left behind. We think that is good, excellent, and acceptable behavior, the behavior of the Great Moral Judge.

[Deep13]

27. Well, the government has zero credibility.

I've been against war right along.

[arely staircase]

29. really no less than any other industrilized nation state. and a lot more than many. nt

[raindaddy]

30. Hypocrisy!!!

Japan's Fukushima reactors are leaking nuclear waste water into the Pacific. If we're so worried about people being affected by man made toxins why aren't we turning our attention to something that can really have an effect on us? Seems like if it doesn't involve oil and blowing up shit we're not interested!

[MotherPetrie]

31. K&R

[Kablooie]

33. There is probably an ulterior motive concerning money that is the real reason.

We are a screwed up society.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

34. They weren't MY DEEDS pal

They were REPUBLICAN deeds.

Nearly everything any America-hater, here or abroad, cites as something bad and terrible to justify their anti-Americanism happened because of REPUBLICANS being in power.

The very same REPUBLICANS most of the screamers on this website are trying to strengthen by damaging the Democratic party.

If you want to talk about credibility then talk about America's credibility of letting children be gassed when there isn't oil on the line.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[G_j]

39. sorry

I don't take people seriously who call me "pal".

[dionysus]

44. +1

[a la izquierda]

60. Guatemala 1961-1968,

Nicaragua 1979
So not quite. I'm not saying Kennedy or Johnson lobbed bombs on those places, but they had little control of the MIC that trained and armed death squads. Do you want to know what American trained death squads did to pregnant women and babies? Probably not.

And I'm a democratic socialist, not a Republican.

[tomp]

75. enough elected democrats have ALWAYS supported war.....

....to allow them to occur. the elected officials of the democratic party are not anti-war by any stretch of the imagination, and goes especially for CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS (which is a virtual redundancy these days)! your post represents some of the most hypocritical bluster i've seen in a while. take a good close look at the history of democratic party support for all types of military intervention and get back to us.

[Martin Eden]

35. "If we were willing to express the least amount of contrition, sorrow or regret"

Didn't Obama do that when he went on his Apology Tour?
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(sarcasm)

[DearAbby]

36. Oh I agree

this is why I am excited about the debate which will take place in Congress. It may air out some dirty laundry. I would love for people to explain how this atrocity, equals that of Iraq War atrocity? And how can we have moral ground to accuse others of a war crime while we sweep our own under the rug. As we harbor war criminals here.

[The Wizard]

38. As I vaguely recall

Our Police (Gestapo) were using chemical weapons on innocent OWS protesters. Is there a drone aimed at City Hall?

[another_liberal]

49. Good point. Pepper spray is no joke.

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 07:53 PM - Edit history (2)

It may not be lethal, but the way our police forces use it, sprayed straight in a person's eyes, it can seriously degrade your vision.

[Nightjock]

53. I don't agree with calling police Gestapo but

great point!

[99Forever]

42. Truth to power.

Always.

[sibelian]

43. "But... but but but we STILL HAVE TO DO IT even though...!

HOW WILL WE PERCEIVE OURSELVES?"

[jsr]

45. Why are we doing the dirty work for the Middle East/Arab League?

We have NO business getting involved in that neighborhood.

[forestpath]

46. K&R

[another_liberal]

48. Well said.

You are correct, sir. Pot calling the kettle black doesn't even cover it.

[blkmusclmachine]

52. Rules for me Vs. rules for thee.

[gopiscrap]

58. Agreed

[Phlem]

59. K&R!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. get use to it...the only thing our economy has to sustain us is death....

It is practically the sole thing America manufactures and export is war and death. We have no morals whatsoever. Our children are born to be the world police. To kill and be killed for the 1%ers.i

[JohnyCanuck]

65. Eric Margolis: Another Jolly Little War

Back in 1990, I was in Baghdad covering the lead-up to the first US war against Iraq. I found four British scientific technicians who told me – and showed documents – that they had been sent by Her Majesty’s government to help Iraq’s biowarfare programs.

The four scientists were stationed at Salman Pak laboratories to manufacture four types of germ weapons for Iraq for use against Iran, including anthrax and q-fever. The feeder stocks for the germ weapons came from a US lab in Maryland; their export was ok’d by Washington. I repeatedly reported on this grim discovery.

During the long, bloody Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988), the US, Britain, Italy and Germany exported chemical weapons plants and raw material to Iraq that produced Sarin nerve gas and burning mustard gas. Many thousands of Iranian soldiers were killed, horribly burned or blinded by these western-supplied weapons.

So a little less western moral outrage, please, particularly from the Brits whose own sainted Winston Churchill authorized the use of poison gas against rebellious Iraqi and Afghan tribesmen.

http://ericmargolis.com/2013/08/antoher-jolly-little-war/

[Carolina]

82. that was an excellent article

by someone who knows the reality of the ME!

[AverageJoe90]

67. Yeah, but the Russkies shouldn't be talking, either.....they're about the only ones.................

......still defending Al-ASSad and his cronies.

[LibDemAlways]

68. Slavery, Wounded Knee, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, My Lai, Shock and Awe, Abu Ghraib....

As my dad used to say, we have "one hell of a lot of nerve."

[DeSwiss]

69. K&R

[randome]

71. "Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." -Oscar Wilde.

The only thing that should matter is what is happening now, not what happened in the past under overwhelmingly Republican administrations.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bluenorthwest]

79. Try this bit of Oscar Wilde on for size, if that's the game....

“As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular.”

Oscar Wilde

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Here's Adrienne Rich, another poet, on war and imgination...

“War is an absolute failure of imagination, scientific and political. That a war can be represented as helping a people to 'feel good' about themselves, or their country, is a measure of that failure.”

― Adrienne Rich


We could do this all day.

[Tseko]

73. "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged."

– Noam Chomsky, 1990

[markpkessinger]

74. My point exactly . . .

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023579288 .

[Vattel]

80. excellent point

[woo me with science]

83. kick