Pssssst the level of radiation at Fukushima is now 18 times higher

[malaise]

than before-high enough to prove lethal within four hours of exposure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23918882
<snip>
Radiation levels around Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant are 18 times higher than previously thought, Japanese authorities have warned.

Last week the plant's operator reported radioactive water had leaked from a storage tank into the ground.

It now says readings taken near the leaking tank on Saturday showed radiation was high enough to prove lethal within four hours of exposure.
---------------------
This is frightening!

[Junkdrawer]

1. Well, that should make cleanup easy....

And they have to build a NEW tank every other day....

[Katashi_itto]

34. Exactly send in all the TEPCO executives in at gunpoint. Tell them they ought to hurry.

[AsahinaKimi]

77. Brilliant!

hahahahahaha

[Katashi_itto]

80. :)

[JRLeft]

131. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

85. Would love to see that.

[Bluegene]

2. See the flume headed our way.

"Ocean simulations showed that the plume of radioactive cesium-137 released by the Fukushima disaster in 2011 could begin flowing into U.S. coastal waters starting in early 2014 and peak in 2016."

That is if the source stops spewing it out.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/fukushimas-radioactive-ocean-plume-due-reach-us-waters-2014-8C11050755

[Trillo]

110. Perfect example of the minimization of corporate actions we are exposed to daily. NT

'"...peak in 2016."

[madokie]

3. How irresponsible is it for them to say the reading has been

100 millisieverts when the meter was pegged? The nuclear power industry has a long history of lying to us to the point that we should not take anything they say about the safety of their industry at face value.
If nuclear energy was honest about the dangers there would be no nuclear power plants anywhere in the world. We also would be well on our way to a hell of a lot more benign ways of producing our electricity. If not for the lie that nuclear is safe, sane and cheap with todays technology we would not be relying mostly on fossil fuels either.
It pisses me off to no end that we've been lied too as we have, been sold a pig in a poke if you will.
We still have people extolling the benefits of nuclear energy in the face of all this, even here on this board. Almost to the point where it is difficult to even discuss alternate ways of producing our electricity.

[malaise]

8. They lied with impunity

Hopefully this will wake up the planet re nuclear energy, but I'm not holding my breath.

Climate change, natural disasters and nuclear energy - what could go wrong.

[maryellen99]

11. I really wish the media would report on this

but I'm not holding my breath.

[malaise]

12. BBC international news had a lengthy report

and a discussion with a professor

[maryellen99]

14. that's really sad that we have to turn to foreign sources for news

[Harmony Blue]

21. It has been like this for more than a decade

it is crazy how much the U.S. media misses on important world news items.

[maryellen99]

23. yes I totally agree!

its not important like the stupid Kardashians or Miley Cyrus twerking.

[sulphurdunn]

24. The nucear industry

is privately owned and exists only to maximize return on investment. By definition private industry is amoral and answers only to its owners and only for failure to increase their wealth. Where this not so, the industry would still be to dangerous to exist even if angels owned it.

[madokie]

33. Yup

[chervilant]

4. Is it time to eat our bananas?

I've already been admonished several times to "stop worrying" about Fukushima, because "it's not that bad." I guess I'd better stock up on that pasty fruit...

[malaise]

9. I'm eating one right now

and I'm sure Nadin has a decent supply.

[TalkingDog]

22. While the Belafonte version was available, I found this vid more appropriate to the conversation.

[me b zola]

61. Perfect

You win the thread

[closeupready]

73. I love Catherine O'Hara!

She is just the best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. muststick up

[quaker bill]

5. losing control of three nuclear power plants

is a really really bad idea.

[Junkdrawer]

6. Loss of containment.

AND you still have to cool the core....

[quaker bill]

18. I think control generally implies

that you actually keep the radioactive material in the building as well as moderate the reaction.

Everything going on there is a really bad idea. There is nothing "good" left to do. It is all down to "really bad" or "somewhat less but still really bad" at this point.

I like the notion of not building more of them, but that does not help here with this problem. They just sit there glowing fiercely and leaking, and nuclear physics being what it is, will do so for some considerable time to come.

[Yo_Mama]

7. Not at the plant - at some places in the plant

According to Tepco this particular problem has been dealt with.

There have been and are very hot areas within the plant, and that is not going to change for the foreseeable future.

The danger posed by the accumulated water is also real. But ambient radiation levels at the plant as a whole haven't changed much.

[Junkdrawer]

10. According to Tepco.....

[malaise]

13. Nuff said

[Yo_Mama]

20. Oh, I think this is a quiet potential disaster in the making

I just don't like to see misinformation. Here's a more technically accurate article from phys.org:
http://phys.org/news/2013-09-fukushima-pipe-leaking-radioactive-tepco.html

These latest disclosures indicate a larger problem than TEPCO had originally evaluated and indicate that the potential for severe work exposures is very acute while working in the area. The good news is that TEPCO has stepped up their monitoring. The bad news is that the increased monitoring is revealing more and more danger.

If they let this situation go for too long, the area is going to become increasingly contaminated. The location of this water storage area is also a problem, because if they have a catastrophic failure it is going to overrun the containment system and make areas with ongoing work very dangerous.

[magical thyme]

32. OMG -- tape to the rescue?!?

The operator of Japan's stricken Fukushima nuclear plant said Sunday it had found highly radioactive water dripping from a pipe used to connect two coolant tanks, patching it up using tape.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-09-fukushima-pipe-leaking-radioactive-tepco.html#jCp


Somehow I'm not feeling any better. But thanks anyway for the try.


The discovery of the pipe came a day after Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) said it found new radiation hotspots at four sites around coolant tanks, with one reading at 1,800 millisieverts per hour—a dose that would kill a human left exposed to it in four hours.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-09-fukushima-pipe-leaking-radioactive-tepco.html#jCp

[Yo_Mama]

36. Duct tape R Us, Inc

The well-known nuclear remediation firm, Duct Tape R Us, has been called in to handle the Fukushima Daiichi cleanup job.

I figured someone would catch that engineering pearl.

[Art_from_Ark]

60. Not necessarily according to Tepco

There are many different groups that are monitoring radiation levels including public, academic, and non-profit organizations, not only in Fukushima but throughout Japan. This link takes you to a non-profit site's interactive map for real-time readings for Fukushima (you can get real-time readings by moving your cursor over the colored boxes. The concentration of red and purple boxes is the area around the Fukushima Dai-ichi site). Although the automatic English translations can be a little odd at times, the numerical values don't lose anything in the translation. Values are in microsieverts per hour. For reference, the average ambient radiation level in Denver, Colorado, is approximately 1.34 microsieverts per hour.

At any rate, the monitoring station in Fukushima with the highest radiation level is Ottozawa 3, about a half-mile from the reactors, which has a reading of nearly 27 microsieverts per hour-- 380 times higher than the pre-disaster average of 0.071 microsieverts per hour (and 20 times higher than Denver). Some readings for Fukushima City, about 50 miles away, are 1/10 that, but still roughly 38 times average (or twice as high as Denver). However, other areas in the prefecture are near normal, even places relatively close to the reactors, because of the prevailing winds.

http://new.atmc.jp/pref.cgi?p=07

[snappyturtle]

15. As depressing as the news stories of late concerning Syria,

the NSA spying are I find Fukushima the most horrifying
and growing. Nuclear,chemical and computer technologies
are biting us in the ass. Gives a whole new meaning to
returning to the 'good ol' days' before the 'blessings' of
technology descended on us.

[malaise]

16. When science and technology are used for corporate profits and corporate control

rather than for the benefits of every living thing, we all suffer.

[OneGrassRoot]

19. ^^ THIS ^^

[malaise]

26. Back at yah

[greytdemocrat]

17. I'm telling ya...

[gtar100]

28. Metaphorically speaking.

Not so "thrilling" in reality.

[reformist2]

25. Their old meter had maxed out, but they reported that number anyway?!

"The Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) had originally said the radiation emitted by the leaking water was around 100 millisieverts an hour.

However, the company said the equipment used to make that recording could only read measurements of up to 100 millisieverts.

The new recording, using a more sensitive device, showed a level of 1,800 millisieverts an hour."

(From the article referenced in the OP.)

[Helen Borg]

27. Odd word choice...

"more sensitive device". I would not call it more sensitive, just with a wider range...

[caseymoz]

29. That is translated from Japanese.

It was probably that or "we got bigger f*cking meter, and it read 'holy sh*t we're in trouble.'"

[Helen Borg]

31. Well put

[alittlelark]

59. Sounds like our newscast out here a few months ago....

[caseymoz]

68. Yes, but minus the puns and racism.

And it's a translation joke, where the names weren't translated. In other words, the only thing it has in common is an association with a different Asian language.

Nothing-- in other words. Let's not drive humor to extinction because a few specimens are diseased.

[blackspade]

30. ....

[NMDemDist2]

35. you buried the lead

Fukushima's leak now radioactive enough to be lethal in four hours

that's the lead

[Mojorabbit]

37. Will this devastate the seafood industry on the west coast?

Will it affect the seals and other wild animals that eat contaminated fish? Will the levels affect swimming and other beach activities on the west coast when it arrives or will the dilution make it not an issue?
Will it spread and contaminate the ground water in Japan? I would love to see a real in depth paper on what the projections are for the near future and beyond.

[CrispyQ]

38. I can't recall the last time I heard the US news media talk of Fukushima.

We have 24 x 7 "news," but they can only focus on one story at a time.

[Liberal_in_LA]

39. Japanese news that broadcast in LA talks about all the time

Seems really dire

[cui bono]

54. What channel do you watch that on? Is it over the air?

Is it in English? I don't have cable and don't speak Japanese but I do live in L.A.!

[Liberal_in_LA]

57. yes, englis, over the air, japanese news and culture all day, lots on fukushima and tsunami, channel

http://www.japantoday.com/smartphone/view/entertainment/nhk-world-tv-to-start-24-hour-broadcast-in-los-angeles

Channel 28.4

Anything in Japanese is subtitled

[cui bono]

62. Thanks! n/t

[Melissa G]

42. All Syria all the time.. this week

All NSA all the time last week.... No attention span or breadth of information in this country. No follow up. It's a big wide world out there.
Sad situation ripe for manipulation.

[Zorra]

40. But...but, don't worry! It can never, ever, happen again.

Except for when it does.

Frequency of Earthquakes Worldwide

The following table lists the frequency of earthquakes worldwide, according to magnitude and annual average.
Descriptor Magnitude Annual average
Great 8 or higher 1
Major 7–7.9 172
Strong 6–6.9 1342
Moderate 5–5.9 1,3192
Light 4–4.9 c. 13,000
Minor 3–3.9 c. 130,000
Very minor 2–2.9 c. 1,300,000

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0197837.html#ixzz2dfa5NMUJ

[spanone]

41. k&r...

[suffragette]

43. Too high for them to cover by raising the 'normal' baseline again

Remember when they did that?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=773522&mesg_id=773873

[malaise]

45. Thanks for that reminder

[suffragette]

47. Thanks for keeping on this!

[Jefferson23]

44. Scary as hell. K&R.

[wtmusic]

46. Pssssst there were about 2 buckets of water on the ground that were highly radioactive

and it was water that was made radioactive deliberately in the process of purifying water from the plant.

This is hysterical, fearmongering nonsense.

[pa28]

48. Hysterical fearmongering nonsense?

We should tell the cleanup workers on the receiving end of those high doses. I'm sure they'll be relieved.

[wtmusic]

49. Yes.

There was one worker who received a relatively minor dose. This "warning", and "kill within four hours" stuff are all inventions of the media.

"-At around 10:35 AM on August 28, an associated company worker, who had been working on water transfer of the H4 area tanks in Units 1-4, received a contamination examination at the Main Anti-earthquake Building after the work, and was found to have contamination on the head, face and breast. Therefore, the worker was instructed to receive whole body counting. Then, the contaminated parts were cleaned by wiping, etc., and the contamination level became dropped below 13,000cpm (equivalent to 40Bq/cm2) set as the screening level. Accordingly, at 2:51 PM on the same day, the worker left from the Entrance Area Management Buildings. Note that the worker received smear measurement on the nasal and oral cavities, which showed no contamination. However, the worker was found to have some contamination (5,000cpm) on the head, and therefore, received whole body counting on August 29, which showed that the worker has no internal intake."

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu-news/2013/1230165_5484.html

For a little bit of proportion - in between the time of my post and your response, about 110 people around the world died from the effects of coal smoke.

[intaglio]

79. So 1,800 sieverts per hour is a safe dose?

... but I forgot the nuclear industry always tells the truth and does not want to profit

[questionseverything]

82. lots of info

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/08/24/news-from-the-forbidden-zone-is-alarmingly-bad-fukushima/

[wtmusic]

83. About your source.

"Greg Laden claims to have a degree in, presumably, anthropology (obviously not a rigorous discipline). He also claims to be a "science communicator" (Carl Sagan would roll in his grave were he to read such vacuous tripe) who "can never decide which is more important: nuance or context", which is interesting because Laden is quite incapable of understanding or observing nuance, and rarely, if ever, includes context as being relevant to anything.

Nonetheless, and in the face of his grand claims, it is more than clear that Laden is intellectually weak, and is probably an intellectual fraud. Laden's writing is, generally, quite atrocious. His prose is more like that of a grade school drop out than a university or college graduate. Laden's spelling is hit and miss; his sentence structure weak, and often seriously flawed; his grammar horrid; his diction juvenile at best; his typographical errors endless; his logic often non-existent and usually totally skew-whiffy.

He is a complete idiot and does not understand anything. He's also a massively sexist douche, suffering from delusions of grandiosity. "

http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Greg_Laden:_Man_of_Mystery

[questionseverything]

86. how about reuters?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-japan-fukushima-insight-idUKBRE97D00M20130814

Tokyo Electric Power Co (Tepco) is already in a losing battle to stop radioactive water overflowing from another part of the facility, and experts question whether it will be able to pull off the removal of all the assemblies successfully.

"They are going to have difficulty in removing a significant number of the rods," said Arnie Gundersen, a veteran U.S. nuclear engineer and director of Fairewinds Energy Education, who used to build fuel assemblies.

The operation, beginning this November at the plant's Reactor No. 4, is fraught with danger, including the possibility of a large release of radiation if a fuel assembly breaks, gets stuck or gets too close to an adjacent bundle, said Gundersen and other nuclear experts.

That could lead to a worse disaster than the March 2011 nuclear crisis at the Fukushima plant, the world's most serious since Chernobyl in 1986.

No one knows how bad it can get, but independent consultants Mycle Schneider and Antony Froggatt said recently in their World Nuclear Industry Status Report 2013: "Full release from the Unit-4 spent fuel pool, without any containment or control, could cause by far the most serious radiological disaster to date."

Tepco has already removed two unused fuel assemblies from the pool in a test operation last year, but these rods are less dangerous than the spent bundles. Extracting spent fuel is a normal part of operations at a nuclear plant, but safely plucking them from a badly damaged reactor is unprecedented.

"To jump to the conclusion that it is going to work just fine for the rest of them is quite a leap of logic," said Gundersen.

[questionseverything]

87. or this

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/08/20/national/tepco-yet-to-track-groundwater-paths/#.UiTkbDaThSK

The tank leaks come as Tepco struggles to halt the flow, some 300 tons a day, of highly radioactive groundwater into the Pacific, where it is believed wreaking environmental havoc.

[questionseverything]

90. or nyt?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/world/asia/300-tons-of-contaminated-water-leak-from-japanese-nuclear-plant.html?_r=0

Tepco has stumbled repeatedly in its handling of the disaster and its efforts to clean up the plant. After its recent admission that contaminated water had reached the open ocean after breaching an underground barrier built to contain it, Japan’s popular prime minister, Shinzo Abe, ordered his government to intervene.

Tepco hopes to clean the water using an elaborate filtering system and start releasing water contaminated at low levels into the ocean. Those plans have been delayed by technical problems and protests from fishermen.

Desperate for options to stem the leaks, Japan’s Nuclear Regulation Authority has suggested surrounding the plant with a huge underground ice wall. That plan has its own drawbacks, however, and would require huge amounts of electricity.

“We are extremely concerned,” Hideka Morimoto, a spokesman for the authority, was quoted by The Associated Press as saying.

At some point, Tepco will have no choice but to start releasing some of the water, said Dr. Miyano, the expert in nuclear system design. The continued problems have heightened public scrutiny of Tepco and have made it harder to build public consensus around any release of water, he said.

“That just makes the problem worse, with no viable solution,” he said.

[wtmusic]

94. Different issue

Read carefully - nowhere does the NYT article say this constitutes a threat to either Japan or the U.S.

[intaglio]

96. So explain why this particular variety of radiation harmless?

Could you also explain how the water that escapes is going to be diluted when it will concentrate in the food chain?

[wtmusic]

98. It's harmless because there won't be enough of it

and what there is will be very low-energy radiation. Please take the time to read this whole article, it even explains a bit why Arnie Gundersen is far off the mark:

"And why we really shouldn’t worry about it all that much. The radiation that fossil fuel plants spew into the environment each year is around 0.1 EBq. That’s ExaBecquerel, or 10 to the power of 18. Fukushima is pumping out 10 trillion becquerels a year at present. Or 10 TBq, or 10 of 10 to the power of 12. Or, if you prefer, one ten thousandth of the amount that the world’s coal plants are doing. Or even, given that there are only about 2,500 coal plants in the world, Fukushima is, in this disaster, pumping out around one quarter of the radiation that a coal plant does in normal operation."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/10/the-fukushima-radiation-leak-is-equal-to-76-million-bananas/

[wtmusic]

91. "where it is believed wreaking environmental havoc"

Complete, unsubstantiated nonsense.

[wtmusic]

89. Arnie Gundersen, the high school math/science teacher

who's made a very successful career out of marketing fear to gullible souls?

"A careful reading of that resume (Gundersen's) reveals only one mention of any kind of license to operate a reactor. In the section of his resume headed Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) 1971 to 1972, there is the following statement: “Critical Facility Reactor Operator, Instructor. Licensed AEC reactor operator instructing students and utility reactor operators in start-up through full power operation of a reactor.” Here is a quote about that critical facility from a contact who attended RPI at the same time as Gundersen did.

It operated at no pressure, room temperature, licensed to 100W, highly enriched U, open tank of water.

(wtmusic: enough power to light one light bulb.)

A second exaggeration comes in the statement that Gundersen has “almost four decades experience in the nuclear power industry.” His resume shows that he graduated from school in 1972 and that he stopped working for Nuclear Energy Services in 1990. From that point on, his full time employment was as a math and science teacher at a series of private schools. His resume lists several items under the heading of Nuclear Consulting 1990 – Present, but it would be interesting to hear the opinion of nuclear professionals about how those activities count as experience in the nuclear industry."

http://atomicinsights.com/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume-yet-frequently-claims-that-entergy-cannot-be-trusted/

[questionseverything]

92. he is not the source

but he is keeping track of other sources like nyt,reuters....

so discrediting him has nothing to do with the discussion

and i do not need to be a nuclear engineer to know,,,,we have a process going on we do not seem to know how to stop and it is extremely dangerous

[wtmusic]

93. The only thing Gundersen is keeping track of is the money he's making

in his fearmongering career:

"Date and time of speaking engagement *
Location of speech *
Approximate length *
Audience Demographics *
Are you willing to pay Mr. Gundersen's travel expenses? *
Will Mr. Gundersen be compensated for this speaking engagement? *"

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IXyzl6QKVvvkOZGDHEQCfzyP7_RhUsbXUaqR4y7hvQQ/viewform

"and it is extremely dangerous"

Based on what?

[Jamastiene]

105. Isn't Tepco the company that is trying to cover their asses with good PR right now?

n/t

[wtmusic]

106. If so, they're doing a crappy job.

They're the ones who are reporting the leaks.

[intaglio]

78. 2 buckets?

IIRC the water level in the tanks were down 2-3 meters. Now that was an estimate as not all tanks are fitted with measures of water level and some of those are broken.

Now if you are so sure it is safe go there and earn big bucks tidying up

[wtmusic]

81. Alarmist spoiler alert

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112753242

[intaglio]

95. And exactly what has that to do with your "2 buckets" fantasy?

And in your world of fluffy pink unicorns does irradiating the bones of the lower leg carry no risk?

[wtmusic]

99. Correction

"As a result of confirmation on the site conditions, a puddle of approx. 1-2cm was found inside the dike, and a puddle of approx. 3m×3m×1cm was found outside of the drain valve of the dike."

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2013/1229834_5130.html

3mx3mx1cm = 90,000 cc's or about 23 gallons, #5 5-gallon buckets. Still nothing to worry about unless you're a very determined worrier.

Your lower leg bones are being irradiated by billions of antineutrinos from the sun every second. Even at night (they pass right through the Earth). Do you find that fact worrisome?

[intaglio]

100. What you see in the surface puddle is not all of the leakage

You are aware that soil is absorbent?

You are also aware that there was probably surface run-off?

Oh and anti-neutrinos! Wow that is just so scary - except you are fully aware that neutrinos and their anti-particles are nearly never absorbed by tissue or any normal density of matter. Compare this is to beta radiation which easily interacts with tissue.

Essentially you are using deception and distortion in your assumed role of nuclear industry apologist.

[wtmusic]

104. Nope, all cleaned up.

"Partially treated radioactive water leaked from a storage tank last week, going on to escape from a surrounding dam through a rainwater valve. Having discovered this on 20 August, Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) has now pumped away excess water and cleared soil from the affected area to a depth of 50 centimetres, reporting that there is no sign of contamination at that depth."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/112752894

If you want to fantasize about it creating more Godzillas in hell, run with it.

[intaglio]

108. And how have they cleaned up all the liquid in the ground?

Cleared down to 50cm after how many days of leakage? Please do not claim that the leak only started on the 20th, that is a lie, it was on the 20th that the maxed out detector was replaced; the leak itself started weeks earlier. Please note my word "all" and the very limited depth.

I've never made any comment about Godzilla or the "terrifying" anti-neutrinos with which you tried to mislead. You keep on making excuses and I'll keep on demonstrating your deceptions

[wtmusic]

109. How do you know the leak started weeks earlier?

It was discovered on August 19th.

[intaglio]

113. Because the water level was 2-3m lower than it should be

Given the low rate of loss from the identified breach it had to have been happening for at least a week prior to the 19th and more likely 2 weeks as the detectors were maxed out at least 2 weeks prior to discovery.

[wtmusic]

115. Different leak.

This is a puddle of radioactive water which was cleaned up, and is generating the current wave of media hysteria over worker exposure.

[intaglio]

117. That's another lie n/t

[wtmusic]

119. That's another worthless, linkless assumption nt

[intaglio]

120. you are now pretending that the leak discussed here

is different from the leak "cleaned up" in other words you are trying to deceive.

[wtmusic]

123. You are thoroughly confused.

You need to go back and read the sources, there are two issues here.

[intaglio]

125. No, you are trying to deceive

and afraid to admit even your own posts

[wtmusic]

127. You're wasting my time.

Have a nice day.

[muriel_volestrangler]

130. Fukushima water leak likely went undetected for more than a month

The leakage of about 300 tons of highly radioactive water from a surface tank at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant may have gone unnoticed for more than a month before it was discovered on Aug. 19, according to a spike in workers' beta-ray exposure levels.

A representative of Tokyo Electric Power Co., the plant operator, told a meeting of a working subcommittee of the Nuclear Regulation Authority on Aug. 27 that the leak had likely already begun by July. He said that inference is based on a study of beta-ray doses in workers who each spent about 2.5 hours a day at a radio relay station, some 20 meters from the storage tank where the leak occurred.

He said the worker dosage readings began to rise some time around mid-July, adding that TEPCO had yet to investigate the data taken before July.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201308280059

[wtmusic]

132. Different leak.

You're on a completely different topic.

[muriel_volestrangler]

133. No, it's the same leak

OP article (BBC), 1 September:
"Last week the plant's operator reported radioactive water had leaked from a storage tank into the ground.

It now says readings taken near the leaking tank on Saturday showed radiation was high enough to prove lethal within four hours of exposure."

Asahi Shimbun, August 28:
"The leakage of about 300 tons of highly radioactive water from a surface tank at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant may have gone unnoticed for more than a month before it was discovered on Aug. 19, according to a spike in workers' beta-ray exposure levels."

20 Aug, The Guardian:
"Frantic efforts to contain radioactive leaks at the wrecked Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been dealt another blow after its operator said about 300 tonnes of highly contaminated water had seeped out of a storage tank at the site.

The leak is the worst such incident since the March 2011 meltdown and is separate from the contaminated water leaks, also of about 300 tonnes a day, reported recently."

After the press release you quote:

Further, we announced that a puddle of approx. 3mx3mx1cm was found outside of the drain valve of the dike. Other than this puddle, there was another puddle of approx. 50cmx6mx1cm found outside of the dike.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2013/1229861_5130.html

This is follow-up information regarding the water leak from a drain valve of a tank dike in the H4 area in Fukushima Daiichi NPS.

At 7:00 PM on August 19, we started collecting water in the tank dike. Water was pumped up with a temporary pump to a temporary tank, and absorbent was placed inside the dike. Water collected until around 11:00 PM on the same day is approx. 4 m3.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2013/1229867_5130.html

We found streaky traces of flows on the wall surface of a drainage channel located east of the H4 area tanks. In response, we measured surface dose equivalent rates at this location, and the maximum rate was 6.0mSv/h (? and ? rays (70?m dose equivalent rate)).

We will conduct a detailed investigation and evaluation concerning these traces since the above information seems to indicate the possibility that contaminated earth and sand, etc. may have flowed into the drainage channel.

When water leaking this time was found, no water was found flowing on the surface of the ground near the above drainage channel.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2013/1229936_5130.html

So, your '23 gallons' was just the first puddle found, and there's a lot more that indicates it could have flowed elsewhere. But there was 300 tonnes missing from the tank, and the radiation exposure of workers was higher in July, so it looks like it had been leaking for some time.

[wtmusic]

135. The spot I indicated was one of three spots in the entire area

which had high readings. The other two were dry.

You can say something "looks like" this or that, or it "could have" flowed here or there, but that's speculation - a technique very useful to help media outlets sell advertising.

[muriel_volestrangler]

137. It's not 'speculation' - multiple news reports say 300 tonnes, not 23 gallons

You are quite possibly the only person in the world who thinks there was just a leak of 23 gallons, because you've based it on one early press release.

[davidpdx]

50. An interesting side note

The site of the 2020 Summer Olympics will be decided on the 5th. Tokyo is one of the candidate cities. Interesting that they still went through with the bid after the earthquake. Even though Tokyo is a bit of a distance the radiation concerns I think will knock the city out of contention. The other two cities are Madrid and Istanbul. Turkey is close to Syria which doesn't fair well for them. Madrid might be the one to bet on.

[malaise]

52. Very interesting

Madrid will have a hard time selling that to the victims of the IMFs neo-liberal agenda.

[davidpdx]

56. Oh, that's right I forgot about Spain's financial problems

$125 billion bailout

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/business/global/spain-moves-closer-to-bailout-of-banks.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Wow, they picked 3 winners didn't they.

Japan-nuclear power plant meltdown
Turkey-near war torn Syria
Spain-broke

[wtmusic]

65. The radiation levels in Tokyo are less than New York, Paris, London, or Beijing.

http://monitoring.tokyo-eiken.go.jp/en/index.html

Madrid should be avoided because it's haunted by ghosts of the Spanish Inquisition.

[Octafish]

71. The government of Japan and TEPCO have been proven so reliable NOT.

They were reported results from a device that couldn't measure how much radiation REALLY was being released.

Fukushima radiation levels '18 times higher' than thought

Radiation levels around Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant are 18 times higher than previously thought, Japanese authorities have warned.

1 September 2013
BBC News

Last week the plant's operator reported radioactive water had leaked from a storage tank into the ground.

It now says readings taken near the leaking tank on Saturday showed radiation was high enough to prove lethal within four hours of exposure.

SNIP...

The Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) had originally said the radiation emitted by the leaking water was around 100 millisieverts an hour.

However, the company said the equipment used to make that recording could only read measurements of up to 100 millisieverts.

The new recording, using a more sensitive device, showed a level of 1,800 millisieverts an hour.

The new reading will have direct implications for radiation doses received by workers who spent several days trying to stop the leak last week, the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes reports from Tokyo.

CONTINUED...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23918882

Knowing they've been lying about Fukushima for two and half years now, I have to wonder how defenders of nuclear power sleep at night?

[wtmusic]

75. I'm wondering how detractors of nuclear power sleep at night.

When you get past the thoroughly uninformed, ignorant, and righteous fear that is the basis for the current antinuclear movement, the emperor has no clothes: it is statistically, by far, the safest form of baseload energy generation. Thousands of times safer than coal and ready right now to start to slow the progression of climate change.

All of the events of the last two and a half years have resulted in exactly zero fatalities, and the hysterical public ignorantly slobbers at the trough of titillating stories generated by the press to generate clicks and sales. Can you tell me exactly what the severity of the workers' exposure is? What the tiny, tiny significance of a puddle of water .1 meters³ in volume is to anyone else in the world? That you'd have to (somehow) suspend yourself within 1cm of the puddle to get the full 1800 mSv/hr dose described in the article? Did you know that radiation in the water was concentrated by the decontamination effort itself, to hundreds of times the intensity of water in the reactor vessel itself, to produce clean water which has been returned to the ocean?

Of course not, because you've blindly accepted the bullshit posted by MSM, for which advertisers line their pockets. If I had this pointed out to me, I'd feel like a real tool.

[Safetykitten]

53. There is a BIG ocean between us. It keeps us safe. Nothing bad will ever happen.

[cui bono]

55. Sarcasm...

I hope?

[Safetykitten]

58. Yes...

[Art_from_Ark]

63. Beaches opened in Iwaki, just down the coast from Dai-ichi

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/08/05/national/openings-of-iwaki-beaches-offer-semblance-of-normalcy/#.UiQNAODxrWE

[wtmusic]

64. Wait until Greenpeace tells them how worried they should be.

They'll never come out of the house.

[wtmusic]

66. This is about equivalent to saying the temperature in New York City is 350 degrees

because someone is baking cookies.

[intaglio]

101. Lovely distortion, think it up for yourself?

Your false analogy breaks down unless you say that the oven is invisible and so is likely to burn anyone who comes close.

[wtmusic]

103. Interesting take.

Assuming such a thing is possible, do you believe this mythical invisible oven would be something worthy of generating international concern?

[intaglio]

107. I said your analogy breaks down

and demonstrated that it only applies if your "oven" in invisible and can damage anyone who unwittingly walks near - like ionizing radiation damages those who walk near.

[wtmusic]

112. Continuing with your analogy, which you suddenly seem hesitant to pursue:

though we can't see this oven, we can certainly detect it and dispose of it somewhere where it won't harm anyone.

Why is this a cause for international concern?

[intaglio]

118. Not my analogy your analogy; you are deceiving again

You made the original comparison with an oven in New York - not I.

I merely demonstrated that if it was a true parallel then the oven would be invisible and likely to burn anyone. If you cannot face the fact that you made a false analogy do not try to put it onto others.

You are an issuer of lies you are now saying that you were talking about a completely different leak.

[wtmusic]

121. Don't want to own up to your bastard child, eh?

It's now your analogy, my friend.

Why would it be a cause for international concern?

[intaglio]

124. I quote, posted Monday 2 Sept at 08:51 GMT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3579742

66. This is about equivalent to saying the temperature in New York City is 350 degrees

because someone is baking cookies.

[wtmusic]

126. And I, your reply:

"Your false analogy breaks down unless you say that the oven is invisible and so is likely to burn anyone who comes close."

I did, and do. And in that instance, you clearly acknowledge my analogy is apt.

Now for the kicker: why is that a cause for global concern?

You're in a spot of bother, aren't you?

[intaglio]

136. Deception again

you issue lies without thought.

My case was made to point out the stupidity of your remark. You chose the oven not I

[mick063]

67. I don't know the details of Fukushima but.....................

One must make the distinction between the dose received from the fuel in the storage basin and the exposure hazard from the contaminated water leaking from the storage basin.

They are two different animals.

Think of the spent fuel as a floodlight that harms you if it "shines" on you. Think of the water as a poison if you ingest it. They both must be considered differently when exposure hazard is considered. The "floodlight" may kill you with four hours exposure, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the toxicity of the contaminated water leaking from the basin and into the ocean. I have not seen any data with respect to the contaminated water.

Don't portray me as a defender of the situation. I'm simply trying to make sense of it without knowing all of the details. I do know it is incorrect to directly correlate the immediate dose of the fuel to the leaking contaminated water with respect to personal exposure. The hazards have two completely different calculations with respect to exposure assessment.

Regardless, none of this is good news. It appears that remote handling technology must be used because of high radiation in the immediate vicinity. It appears that water must be continuously pumped into a leaking basin to maintain both radiation shielding and heat transfer. It appears that they have one hell of a mess on their hands. Getting the fuel contained and/or shielded would go a long ways toward alleviating the recovery problems.

[Octafish]

69. Sea outside water discharge reported to be boiling.

As an interested citizen of the world, that does not seem normal to me.

http://enenews.com/bbc-website-links-to-report-about-pacific-ocean-boiling-in-front-of-fukushima-daiichi-photos

[Junkdrawer]

70. New twist on the phrase "A dumb way to boil water"....

Gallows Humor

[Octafish]

72. It really, really, really, really is feeling a lot like Doomsday.

Archimedes reportedly used magnifying glasses to heat things up. We could boil sea water all day long and take the fresh water to transform human life, make deserts bloom again, and lower sea levels. But nooooooo.

So, in place of a New New Deal for the 21st Century, a little Labor Day cheer, Junkdrawer:



TEPCO Rose, guaranteed to make the unthinkable slightly more palatable.

[Junkdrawer]

74. Optimistic they can start them up again?????????

Maybe if they can funnel the ocean steam to the turbines......

[wtmusic]

76. Ruh-roh...here he comes

and this time he's taking no prisoners!

[malaise]

84. Holy facting shite

Scary stuff

[Avalux]

129. Japanese govt to build an "ice wall" to contain the radation.

All along, I've had this nagging feeling that we haven't been told the seriousness of the incident and the aftermath. It certainly hasn't received the attention it deserves. Now we're told the Japanese will build an ice wall to try and contain the 400 tons of radioactive waste water that's leaking on a daily basis. Whether it works or not is yet to be determined....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23940214

[Marrah_G]

88. I just avoid pacific fish

Nothing else anyone can really do. The damage is done.

[mick063]

97. I have eaten salmon caught from the Hanford Reach (near Richland) many, many times.

I honestly have. Of course I understand the risk of an extra 1,300 millirems of annual dose as well (If 2.2 pounds per day were eaten). Check out what you get from an X-Ray at the Dentist office some time. Also understand that the Dentist is taking two more X-Rays than he really needs for an extra three hundred bucks per patient. The money really adds up over the course of a day.

And these levels detected? They far surpass anything found in the Tuna caught off the California coast. By a huge margin actually.


Radiation Flowed 200 Miles to Sea, Study Finds

Published: July 17, 1992


Link

A Government contractor's preliminary study of radiation released over the years from the Hanford Nuclear Reservation into the Columbia River has found that the radiation reached the Pacific Ocean 200 miles away, contaminating fish and drinking water along the river and exposing as many as 2,000 people to potentially dangerous doses.

The report, prepared by the Batelle Pacific Northwest Laboratory in nearby Richland, where the nuclear complex is situated, says that most of those exposed to such doses were subsistence fishermen, primarily Indians who live along the river.

In an interview, one of the study's authors, Bruce Napier, a health physicist, said fish eaters along the river would generally have received 100 to 200 additional millirems of radiation a year, as much as 67 percent more than a typical person receives each year in naturally occurring background radiation. Mr. Napier said the increased dose rates were "not such that people ought to panic."

But addressing an extreme case, the report said that a person who had daily eaten 2.2 pounds of fish caught at Richland, rather than farther downstream toward the mouth of the river, would have received an additional radiation dose of 1,300 millirems a year.

[Art_from_Ark]

102. Recent pdf document from Tepco (in Japanese) released on August 22

showing tank set-up, some areas where radiation readings were taken, etc.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/fukushima-np/handouts/2013/images/handouts_130822_06-j.pdf

Key to types of tanks in diagram on page 3:

Blue-- steel tanks
Yellow --underground storage tanks
Green -- steel tanks (under construction)
Pink-- steel tanks (planned for construction)
Ovals-- inspection areas

[malaise]

114. Fukushima nuclear plant still 'unstable', regulator says

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23933551
The crisis at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant "has not ended", the country's nuclear watchdog has warned, saying the situation there is "unstable".

Watchdog chief Shunichi Tanaka also accused the plan's operator of careless management during the crisis.

He added that it may not be possible to avoid dumping some contaminated water into the ocean.

The comments come a day before the Japanese government is due to unveil plans to rescue the clean-up operation.

[Art_from_Ark]

116. TEPCO seems to have made a mess

of an already bad situation, so the government had to finally step in. And as a TEPCO customer, I get to help pay for this cleanup effort.

[Trillo]

111. The U.S. wants to go to war in Syria because "chemical weapons" were used to kill people.

Where's the Global Manhattan-like Project to stop Fukushima's radiation pollution?

We have been taught for decades that man-made radiation is one of the absolute worst pollutions we can be exposed to, every bit as dangerous as chemicals, if not moreso.

There are non-human life forms in the sea, and if nothing else, we need to stop Fukushima for them as much as for ourselves.

[Precisely]

122. Thank you!

The cognitive dissonance of attacking Syria is cra cra. So many life-threats, including this economy.

[malaise]

128. Very well said

[kenny blankenship]

134. I am thousands of times more worried about this poison than what is alleged to be in Syria

Just wondering why the USG has mobilized no response to this hazard, which is already poisoning Americans, as opposed to its completely over the top reaction to the non-threat in Syria - a reaction moreover that is far more likely to increase risk to US citizens, rather than to diminish it.