Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity.

[WilliamPitt]

[MuseRider]

1. We were right then

and we are right now.

Thanks for the blast from my past.

[HangOnKids]

2. Indeed!

Hi muse!

[MuseRider]

3. Howdy there HangOnKids!

Getting rather difficult to spend time here lately.

Always happy to see you

[Electric Monk]

6. The Dirty Fucking Hippies Were Right

[MuseRider]

12. I love this

and YES WE WERE!

[AsahinaKimi]

58. Agree!!!

[Adrahil]

79. I respectfully disagree.

[MuseRider]

80. Big surprise.

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3545764

[Zorra]

83. We were, we are. The picture made me cry.

I need to go for a walk.

[MuseRider]

84. Awww, I hope the walk helps.

I find myself so upset that I am close to tears, then not, then again. I am not happy, I do know that. I can be happy without all of this but feel it is so important to keep up. Argh, I don't know what to do at this point. I was looking forward to the post "Little Boots" years. Unless you can convince yourself that it is better with your own guy in charge doing much the same stuff then I find no way to find relief.

Walk and feel better.

[Autumn]

4. Ain't that still the fucking truth.

Goes to show the truth endures.

[WillyT]

5. K & R !!!

[backscatter712]

7. Stop killing people! Or we'll drop bombs and kill a bunch of people!

That'll show 'em!

[Melissa G]

8. That quote was published in Mad Magazine

if I recall during 1973 or '74.

[ananda]

9. Wow.

Whoda thunk it.

[n2doc]

10. If Obama goes through with this, I think DU might fall apart

I frankly am already at my wits end reading the posts from so-called experts who 'know' that bombing Syria is the 'right thing, the moral thing' to do. All because their God, their Icon, tells them so. Absolutely no higher thinking involved, just blind, smug obedience. I am so sick of the US leadership thinking it has a 'right' to police the world and kill people who are no threat to it, with no trial or even evidence allowed.

[dionysus]

31. who is this God, or Icon of which you speak?

[ZombieHorde]

52. I think I speak for everyone who ever existed and will exist when I say

Gary Gygax is the one true God and Icon. Though I don't think Gygax has voiced an opinion on Syria since he has been "dead" for several years now.

[dionysus]

57. what about Gary Gnu?

[MisterP]

42. nothing happened here with Libya--the wars are just getting mainstreamed

[Faryn Balyncd]

11. Launching an unconstitutional war, to punish violations of the laws of war is like lynching for

justice.

[backscatter712]

24. Yep! Oh, and don't you love the concept of "laws of war!"

We want to put rules in place to make sure we're being ethical when we're blowing fellow human beings into chunky salsa! I wouldn't want anything weighing down my conscience...

[JoeyT]

59. Not quite.

We want to put rules in place to make sure OTHER PEOPLE are being ethical when they're blowing fellow human beings into chunky salsa. We still demand the right to do whatever the fuck we want when the rules we made specifically because they favored us are an inconvenience.

[Adrahil]

13. So, I'm curious...

... do you think an application of deadly force can NEVER result in fewer deaths overall?

[Raven]

14. I don't know, Adrahil, do you? Would you

be comfortable taking the chance that it would or would it just be a good excuse to feed/grease the war machine? Do you have an answer to your own question?

[Adrahil]

77. It's judgement, but yes I would

I don't like blanket statements like one in the OP. It essentially removes human judgment from the equation, which is never a good thing, IMO.

If someone were trying to hurt, say, my daughter, you bet I'd be willing to use force, even deadly force, to protect her.

And yes, if I believe there are cases where a decision to no act, with violence if necessary, would be an immoral one.

And I know there are pacifists who disagree with me. They are welcome to their opinions, even if they're wrong.

[MNBrewer]

68. How, exactly, would you figure that out?

Other than a wild guess....

[Adrahil]

78. In requires, in short, human judgment.

It requires a thinking, rational person to judge the risks of one actions against potential benefits.

Blanket slogans, as in the OP, remove the need to think. And thinking is important, IMO.

Love your avatar, btw!

[MNBrewer]

82. An opinion, in other words

[MFrohike]

15. I hate that slogan

It's as clever as a pet sweater. There are times when bombing will bring about a better state of the peace, contrary to that stupid slogan. I don't think right now is one of those times, but that doesn't make that silliness true.

[Bake]

44. I agree that sometimes war is necessary

It's always a bad thing, but sometimes it's necessary. We didn't let Hitler overrun all of Europe, and we didn't let Japan overrun the Pacific, because those would have been worse outcomes.

I'm not convinced Syria is one of those necessary situations, and there certainly doesn't appear to be a clear-cut good guy/bad guy. I'm not sure the rebels, should they topple Assad, would be any better.

In short, this one's not black and white.

Bake

[myrna minx]

16. It looks like some of DU is ready to get their war on. I never thought I'd see the day. K&R

[msanthrope]

17. Facile, Will. Peace is not the objective here. nt

[freshwest]

18. Fucking for virginity has its advocates:

Loss of virginity is rational increase, and there was never virgin got till virginity was first lost.

Parolles was talking about military action at the time, but later is exposed as a traitor and ends up a beggar. Who has been pushing this and meeting with rebels to remove Assad?

Sen. McCain Slips Into Syria, Meets With Rebels

...McCain, one of the strongest critics of President Obama’s handling of the bloody two-year old conflict between Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and rebel forces, is the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit Syria since the civil war began...

McCain traveled across the border from Turkey to Syria with Gen. Salem Idris, leader of the rebel forces known as the Supreme Military Command. Idris has become the principal interlocutor between the international community and the highly localized Syrian rebel movement.

ABC News confirmed that in meetings with rebel forces during McCain’s several-hour visit to Syria, rebel leaders called for more support from the U.S., including assistance in the form of heavy arms, airstrikes against the Syrian national army, and the enforcement of a no-fly zone...

The Obama administration announced in April that it would provide $123 million in non-lethal aid to the rebels.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/sen-mccain-slips-into-syria-meets-with-rebels/

McCain said he wants to run for President again. Pretty blatant stuff there, I hope Mr. 'Bomb Iran' is sent packing soon. And his pals Lindsay and Rand with his ideas of defending Christians abroad. Lovely, let's embark on a Crusade©.

Lafew said of Parolles:

By mine honour, if I were but two hours younger, I'd beat thee: methinks, thou art a general offence, and every man should beat thee: I think thou wast created for men to breathe themselves upon thee.

I feel the same about Neo-Cons who can't stand the idea of their MIC pals doing without.

But whoever is releasing Sarin gas, is not doing it to save life or for peace, but to make more misery for their own reasons.

If the UN inspectors determine for once and for all who is doing this, and the Sarin is removed no one will care, except the Neo-Cons.

And who profits by not solving the mystery, or by continuing to kill hundreds or thousands of people in Syria?

Not just war profiteers, but in other matters. That's what we should learn by this. This is not Iraq or Afghanistan.

Turkey is ready for this, been calling for it for a long time. They are directly affected by the flood of refugees.

Some keep saying this is a religious war. I can't believe anyone is that stupid over there.

This is a no-win situation that Obama has been trying to stay out of for years. This latest uprising began two years ago, but it's not the first.

It looks like the 2014 and 2016 game is firmly in place now. We may all 'get fucked.' But none of us are virgins.

[bhikkhu]

19. It did accomplish a lasting peace in Europe, and general prosperity

...but one thing is different from the other. I don't have any idea if there are rosy expectations to be found anywhere in the middle east. It would be nice, but it sure hasn't worked so far.

[Kber]

20. Vegetarians for meat?

Jews for Jesus?

[Boom Sound 416]

21. Tell that to 6 million Jews

Oh wait you can't

[jessie04]

22. NAILED IT !!!

[backscatter712]

23. Oh, that's right, we saved six million Jews when we went to Iraq!

Oh wait...

Come to think of it, the U.S. didn't go into WWII explicitly to save Jews from being put into ovens - that was a bit of happenstance that happened during the war while we were beating up the Germans.

[Amonester]

27. It was more to prevent hitler from developping the A bomb

first

Had he done that, game over.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Rilly?

[Amonester]

33. Ok, not 'rilly' 'more' but also 'part' of it.

'Big' part of it.

[Boom Sound 416]

34. So we should have done what?

[Amonester]

56. "fear mounting that Germany was working on its own uranium bomb"

From: Jul 16, 1945:
The first atomic bomb test is successfully exploded

On this day in 1945, at 5:29:45 a.m., the Manhattan Project comes to an explosive end as the first atom bomb is successfully tested in Alamogordo, New Mexico.

Plans for the creation of a uranium bomb by the Allies were established as early as 1939, when Italian emigre physicist Enrico Fermi met with U.S. Navy department officials at Columbia University to discuss the use of fissionable materials for military purposes. That same year, Albert Einstein wrote to President Franklin Roosevelt supporting the theory that an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction had great potential as a basis for a weapon of mass destruction. In February 1940, the federal government granted a total of $6,000 for research. But in early 1942, with the United States now at war with the Axis powers, and fear mounting that Germany was working on its own uranium bomb, the War Department took a more active interest, and limits on resources for the project were removed.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-first-atomic-bomb-test-is-successfully-exploded

[Boom Sound 416]

30. Yes, we went in to save the rest of them,

The rest of Europe, Russia, North Africa, The Pacific Rim and China.

---
"Beating up the Germans". Good grief. They killed 20 million Russians alone

[backscatter712]

36. No, we went in to reinforce and build our own empire.

The "We're heroically storming in to save the innocent" lines were simply the propaganda that got the people to play along.

[Boom Sound 416]

37. Tell that to the u boats

Sitting on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

And how's our colonization of France going right now?

[Boom Sound 416]

55. besides. why did we really go in?

oil

[Marrah_G]

81. FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WilliamPitt]

28. Deploying Godwin's Law (again)...

Godwin’s Law is an internet adage that is derived from one of the earliest bits of Usenet wisdoms, which goes “if you mention Adolf Hitler or Nazis within a discussion thread, you’ve automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in.”

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/godwins-law





You fail.

[Boom Sound 416]

32. Oh yeah

Well, generalizations generally suck. So there

And forgive me for talking about war when we're, you know, talking about war

[MatthewStLouis]

47. Most of the time we aren't the one's who assume all things are as simple as black and white...

Unfortunately, the real world is not so simple and even on an open-minded forum like this one, it appears people are afraid (cowed, people pressured, etc.) to take up the side of the 100,000 people who have died under the Assad regime. Sad sad sad.

War is evil, it sucks, etc, etc. But is closing our eyes to what is going on the best course?

In my opinion, we maybe should have done something sooner. Maybe we should have stood up for the ones dying for their own freedom. I never much cared for bullies.

[Boom Sound 416]

48. I agree

I think it's Putin dragging us in to more bullshit. The guy is bleeding us all over the place. I'm trying hard not to take out my anger on the president for allowing this. If he goes into Syria either all the way or half assed it still sucks. That country makes Iraq look like Italy. It's a mess. Their are hundreds of clans or tribes or whatever that have been fighting for hundreds of years.

If we want to do something about WMD's, then blockade the nation and let Russia throw the first punch. The blinked in the 60's. they'll do it again.

And frankly, every where I said Russia, I could say Saudi Arabia as well

[trumad]

39. Possibly the dumbest post in the history of DU.

I'm serious when I say that.

I have read probably a million posts here on DU since 2001.

Yours is quite possibly the dumbest I've ever read.

Congrats.

[Boom Sound 416]

40. Somebody's got to be number 1

Which makes someone else number 2

[trumad]

41. Number one with a bullet.

[Boom Sound 416]

49. Please enlighten me

[The Straight Story]

75. The Stand :) (nt)

[Boom Sound 416]

51. I guess we have a new king

[sufrommich]

65. It's not even close to the dumbest post on DU today. nt

[The Straight Story]

76. I think we should also let off all violent criminals in the future

Instead of sending in a swat team when there is a shooter in a school, just let him be - shooting at him, etc, could cause additional kids to be hurt.

We should just let them do what they are gonna do and hopefully, maybe, they won't do it again to others.

Works for me. Eventually syria will run out of people to be gassed, already over 1 million refugee children, before long there will be peace because there will be no one to make war and we can hold our heads up high and say "See! Diplomacy worked. The killing has stopped."

[Recursion]

63. Ouch

It's almost like an overly-simplistic formulation was just given its come-uppance.

[Blue Idaho]

71. We dropped 1.5 million tons of bombs on Germany over four years

and they still killed 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.

So there's that.

[Boom Sound 416]

72. And 20 million Russians

How many would they have killed had we not?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. "The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same."

"The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same." Marie Beyle (Stendahl)

And, the killers always try to convince us that killing is moral.

[orpupilofnature57]

26. Nice Analogy .

[arely staircase]

35. and meaningless slogans

and shit

[awoke_in_2003]

38. Peace purists. nt

[LWolf]

62. And proud of it. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

69. Oh, same here...

just being snarky

[LWolf]

73. Not as snarky

as those attacking people who have principles, who support and defend those principles, as "purists," though.

[awoke_in_2003]

74. true...

When you keep hearing crap like it is your fault that we lost during midterm elections, that you are a Paulite because you are against the NSA, and now you are a peace purist it gets old.

[doc03]

43. What gives us the moral authority to bomb someone

for war crimes when we tortured people, killed thoudsnds of civilians in Iraq and what about bombing other countries with drones.

[backscatter712]

45. MURICA! THAT'S WHY!

[tiredtoo]

46. Yesterday somewhere i posted this question

Secretary of State John Kerry said killing women and children and innocent bystanders with chemical weapons is morally obscene. I asked if killing the same people with bombs, drones, electric chair or guns would not be morally obscene? still waiting for an answer.

[jazzimov]

50. That's awesome! IF

the "other guy" has seen it and believes it!

Unfortunately, the "other guy" sees this and thinks we are "weak".

We can prove that we are strong, and is WHY we can afford to push PEACE.

It may seem contradictory, but true words often seem contradictory. (see Tao Te Ching).

[ZombieHorde]

53. To quote another DUer:

"All we're saying is give war a chance."

[jazzimov]

54. If only it were that simple,

but it's not. BTW, I support fucking for ANY reason. I don't support WAR - except when the other guy insists upon it.

[fadedrose]

60. It beats fighting for oil . . nt

[Little Star]

61. Hear, hear.

[felix_numinous]

64. No matter whether you are for or against

bombing, inevitably there are always people who immediately get in line and seem A OK with delegating this decision to the MIC.

All of a sudden our president morphs into a commander in chief and we are all obligated to obey. For some this is natural, for others not so much.

It's giving up the structure of democracy (when we have it) and our voice in the matter that is the problem--not the for or against-- because if we are in perpetual war, the power structure is militarized here at home. Yet just another benefit to them, and yet another loss to us.

[gopiscrap]

66. Good analogy!

[aikoaiko]

67. Fucking for virginity sounds like an awesome yet futile pursuit

[Blue Idaho]

70. Right on man - that's like - totally far out!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane!