All y'all who are so inclined better quit South bashing!

[Are_grits_groceries]

Where do you think the last House Districts were created? They took them out of the NE. The population is growing in the South and West.

We need HEP not harm. (that's help if you aren't fluid in Southernese)

There are a lot of resisters but you hear the nutballs. As for changing, we keep pushing. Any entrenched power group in any area is hard to dig out. They are worse than chiggers.

After the Civil Rights Acts were passed, the Dems wrote off the South. That played right into the GOPeas hands and made it harder to change. If the national Dems had kept up a strong push here to help us, it wouldn't have been as hard. It still would be difficult mind you, but not as much. That action was short-sighted just as anti-South posts are.

(BTW look up Myles Horton and Judge Frank Johnson)

Face it. The South is moving North with climate change. You can look forward to kudzu, fire ants, and armadillos coming to a yard or road near you soon. When the kudzu gets there, remember to keep moving. it can grow 2 feet a day.

People north of the Mason-Dixon line have often taken comfort in thinking that kudzu is a plague of the southern states. However, kudzu has found the climates of Pennsylvania, New York, Massa-
chusetts, Delaware and Connecticut to its liking. Recent surveys documented vigorous colonies in Illinois, including some as far north as Rock Island. The "green plague"is moving north.

http://www.lib.niu.edu/2000/oi000208.html

Can't we all just get along?

[trumad]

1. Sure---

but do we really have to keep South Carolina?

[taterguy]

2. And give up South of the Border?

Are you fucking high?

[Lochloosa]

4. I'd miss all the billboards...

[bowens43]

6. if we dump south carolina

south of the border would actually be south of the border instead of across the state line...

[trumad]

12. Snarf

Good point there.

[Major Hogwash]

30. I thought you were talking about something else.

Oral sex, but that's just what I was thinking when I read this.*


*Gawd I hope Brietbart copies this post to his blog.

LoL

[Are_grits_groceries]

5. What?

And miss all the entertainment?

[taterguy]

13. I'd need a passport to go to Spoleto

That brings up a semi-serious point: All regions of this country have something of value, if you look hard enough to find it.

[Lochloosa]

3. "worse than chiggers"...no shit

[Shankapotomus]

7. You don't have to justify yourselves

Most DU'ers know there are good progressives and liberals in the South. Don't let the South bashing discourage you.

[malaise]

8. Good post

[madokie]

9. I'm a bred and born okie

and I do consider myself southern. You would too if you heard me talk. Yup thick southern drawl.
I'm proud of the many good people our state has produced. Ms. Warren is but one even though she left at age 12 best I remember.

[Art_from_Ark]

15. My favorite Oklahoman is Will Rogers

Number 2 is Roger Miller
Number 3 is Mr. Zing

[taterguy]

16. No love for Woody?

[Art_from_Ark]

18. OK, Woody's Number 4

Will Rogers was a great political humorist and also had a connection with my home town.
I loved hearing Roger Miller songs on the radio as I prepared for school back in the mid-60s
And Mr. Zing, a character on a Tulsa TV station's kids show, was like afternoon Captain Kangaroo for me, back in the '60s.

[madokie]

20. Mr. Zing gets a mention

Hell I'd forgot all about him. Of course I've never been a tv watcher so I don't have any recollection of his show, only the mention of it like now.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. I think you had to be between 5 and 11 years old to truly appreciate Mr. Zing

There would be a dozen or so kids who would sit in the "bleachers" on the set of his show, which was broadcast on KTUL on weekday afternoons after school from 1963 to about 1970. He had a couple of sidekicks in man-sized animal suits-- Tuffy the Tiger, and Shaggy Dogg, who would play out skits with him, often ad-libbing everything. Mr. Zing would play some cartoons, and sing some of his own songs during the course of his show. And he would often sneak in some "words for little kids to live by". He was also very interested in finding a cure for muscular dystrophy, and would encourage kids to hold backyard "carnivals" to raise money for muscular dystrophy research.

[madokie]

28. Yes John Chick, Mr Zing, was quite the entertainer

I've seen a few reruns and from that I feel comfortable in saying that he was a good person with a good message for children. I think some adults could have learned something from him too

[Art_from_Ark]

33. Rumor had it that it was John Chick who did the sign-off for KTUL,

dressed in full Indian chief regalia, under the KTUL tower. I don't know why, but I always got all choked up watching that.

And poor Mr. Zing was only 54 when he passed on

[pecwae]

10. So far I haven't been brave

enough to cook me up a mess of kudzu. Creasys, collard, turnip greens, kale, but not kudzu.

[quaker bill]

11. Many things are edible

quite a few of them are not tasty.

[quaker bill]

14. Actually we need more Yankees here

Progress locally has come with the influx of Yankees and recently Puerto Ricans. When I came here 40+ years ago in a small wave of Yankees from NYC, you could not even get a decent pizza in town. They banned nudes in art exhibitions. The schools were segregated. The town was dominated by oranges and cattle. All this has changed.

Now we can occasionally elect and will likely re-elect Alan Grayson to congress. There are now so many dems here that when they redistricted they could not avoid making a majority dem district. They had no problem keeping all the districts deep red in 1980, 1990, and barely red in 2000. This time they had to give up and paint one of them dark blue just to keep the others on the redish side of purple.

More yankees please.

[HillWilliam]

46. I still can't get a good Chicago-style deep-dish pizza around here

Anyone want to come down to Hooterville and he'p us out??

[gademocrat7]

17. K&R

Thank you, are grits groceries.

[madokie]

21. Yes Grits are groceries :-)

Also one of my favs around here

[Scootaloo]

19. The Dems didn't write off the south

The southern democrats - clinging like a leech to the idea of the "white man's party" - decamped from the party after 1964. With them went a huge majority of Democratic voters in the region, all the party apparatus, and since the democratic party was, effectively, the only party in the South at the time, there was no way the national party could really repair the damage this did. There were no liberal Republican voters in the region to balance the flip when the Dixiecrats broke for the republican party. What has happened since has been nearly fifty years of Segregationist republican dominance (on top of more than fifty years of segregationist Democratic dominance.)

So no. The Democratic party did not abandon the south. The (modern) Democratic Party was effectively completely purged from the region, and the new One Party rule has spent fifty years consolidating this gain.

[Are_grits_groceries]

23. When that 'purge' occurred,

those of us left, and there were a lot more than you think, had to help ourselves by ourselves. Instead of trying to help us create something new, they did just quit.

Jimmy Carter, Clinton, and Gore are just 3 home grown examples that made it with the core of what remained.

The Democratic ideals were NEVER purged from this region. People just toiled in the wake of the mess and tried to keep moving forward.

The national Dems have never really come back except in fits and starts, bless their hearts.

[Scootaloo]

27. Knock it off with the sackcloth and ashes.

I'm sure there are progressives in the south. I'm also sure that if there were enough to capitalize on, the Democratic party would be doing so effectively. After all, that's kind of the fucking point of a national party.

You point out two presidents and one guy who won the presidential election, from the south, with southern support, in the same breath you beat your fists and whine about being "abandoned." Really? Think about that for a second.

The problem facing progressives in the south isn't that the party has "abandoned" the poor dears to "fend for themselves" - it's just that there really aren't enough of you to make a dent in the right-wing freakshow that also calls the region home. Bless you for trying, but for fuck's sake, have a reality check, will you?

If most of the people in a region vote for crazy fucking right-wing assholes all the time - and in the south, as with the prarie states, that is the case - then the Democratic party is going to have a HELL of a time making any sort of inroads, regardless of how earnest you guys are. Really.

[Are_grits_groceries]

29. Bless your heart!

You just couldn't keep it on the high road without hitting the low language road.

How long have you lived in the South or have you just studied it extensively through a microscope? You don't have a clue who lives down here and what undercurrents there are both good and bad.

I don't have time for whining. That's the echo of your own voice. I pointed out what the Dems did as it felt and was perceived here. You bring your own slant. The truth is probably somewhere in the midde of that.

Reality check? I get them every day. Sometimes they reinforce stereotypes and at others the supposed truth is blown to bits.

So you can take your ill-mannered, tacky, 'bless your heart' self and go spout your views elsewhere. You have made yourself perfectly clear.

[Fawke Em]

31. Actually, if the Democratic Party wouldn't write off the South,

they would make inroads, but they haven't really played down here (with the exception of the short time Howard Dean was DNC chair and we got North Carolina and Virginia and Florida out of the deal) in a long, long time.

Dems need to blanket our radios like the right has. Dems need to come and talk with people and not at them. Dems need to show a spark of populism that isn't controlled by the same corporate bullshit that Republicans also espouse, but they do it clothed in God and Guns.

The problem is not only the the party abandoned the "poor dears," but also abandoned the "poor," and we have a lot of them down here.

[RDANGELO]

24. Politically, the North is moving south.

Virginia and North Carolina are now swing states.

[GoCubsGo]

25. That's because many of the retirees from the North are moving here.

Can't say I blame them. Northern winters suck.

[2pooped2pop]

26. the southern states are great

some of the friendliest and most helpful people you could ever meet come from the south.

I think if you took away fox news, the south would flourish even more. The racist shit has been allowed to come back out since shrub. I'm in Indiana and the redneck racist part of it is disgusting, so it's not just the south. I love my state with it's flaws and I know southerners love theirs.

There is nothing wrong with the south. THe problem is in the media lies, propaganda, and race baiting. THis shit allows old racist feelings to resurface and flourish. People sadly love to have someone to bash. Blacks, gays, women. The republicans leading the media, allows the shit back out to the everyday world.

[tabbycat31]

40. there are racists everywhere

I'm what southerners would call a "Yankee" (born and raised in NY, now living in NJ--- except I hear the term Yankee and think of my favorite baseball team). I've worked in the South before and while I would not live there (my friends and family are all in the northeast and I would not want to leave them), I would come back and visit.

As for racism-- a town near me (central NJ) has an active KKK chapter. The racism is everywhere.

[HopeHoops]

32. You forgot aligators, pigs and chickens blocking the road.

My wife taught in S.C. 27 years ago. She was late to work on several occasions because of those.

[Are_grits_groceries]

34. You forgot guineas!

They are the dumbest, loudest, most annoying birds gawd ever made.

[HopeHoops]

35. I don't recall her saying they ever blocked the road. Some things are so stupid you wonder...

... how they ever survived as a species. Sort of like Republicans.

[HillWilliam]

38. They're squawky and annoying

but they're the best tick, flea, and chigger eradicator ever placed on earth. My neighbor has a small flock. When they hop the fence to pick my yard, I bring the dogs in and let the birds work. No flea problems, yay!

[Are_grits_groceries]

39. That is their great saving grace! nt

[HillWilliam]

44. Don't forget the eggs

It takes a handful to make a decent omelette, but they're quite rich and yummy.

[pipi_k]

36. I got no problem

with the south, but I do have a problem with people from the south who come up here to NE and slam everything about it, including the people.

One young lady (and I use the term loosely), a DIL of some long-time friends, ended up moving here when her hubby got transferred in the USAF from Texas back home to Mass.

She started off on the totally wrong foot here, actually posting on her Facebook page that she hated Massachusetts because...and I quote..."It's full of loud-mouthed Italians".

That being only one of a dozen or more reasons why she hated everything about New England.

I actually got sick of the slams and de-friended and blocked her from my Facebook page so I didn't have to keep reading the idiocy.

People need to learn to keep their mouths shut about other places, or at least about the people who live there.

[HillWilliam]

43. There are always people who can't adapt to new surroundings

Believe me, there are plenty of Yankees who come down here and open their mouths loudly with pejorative stereotypes about the south. We can't handle English. We're slow. We eat strange things. Yaddayadda.

I had a bumper sticker that read "We don't care how you did it up north!". Likely there's a counterpart up north.

There is a graceful way to adapt to new surroundings and there will always be those who can't. That young lady probably would have been as graceless even in another southern state. I don't blame you for de-friending her; I would have done the same. She sounds like the kind of person her home region would have been glad to have gotten rid of, no matter where she came from.

Me? I love New England. I am a southerner through and through but I find New Englanders as gracious, kind, and likable as anyone in the south. I dearly love to visit Vermont and Maine-ah hu-mah is as biting and funny as any I ever heard between my steel magnolia aunties Oh, that young lady was clearly a dumbass: If you leave Massachusetts hungry turn around and go back! You did it wrong! (I happen to be a huge fan of Italian food and of baked scrod.) (Did you know there is a huge Italian-descended population in the foothills of NC? Look up the Waldensians.)

Ok. I'll admit it. I'm a foodie and love to try new stuff. I'm also a helluva good cook, always ready to add something groovy to my repertoire.

Then again, I've visited forty states and lived in eleven (only two of which I despised; one northern, one southern), but I kept (and do keep) my despisement of those two states to myself. I've tried to heed the advice of my long-departed Granddad Luke: if you get a chance to go some place, embrace it. Do and see all you can. Get amongst the locals and try every kind of new food placed in front of you. You may never get another opportunity. It's better to try something with an open mind and not care for it honestly than to regret missing the chance the rest of your life.

You would have loved my Granddad . . .

[pipi_k]

49. The only southern state

I've ever lived in was TN, back in 1974. Smyrna and Murfreesboro.

It was a whole different world, but I liked it.

Made me laugh when people said I had an accent. You know, because I'm from Western Mass and we don't have the Boston accent out this way. I always wondered what I sounded like from their point of view.



OK so the only thing I did NOT like (at all!!!) was the fact that tornadoes are more common down there.

I was living there during that big outbreak in April of 1974. I had never seen a real tornado before, but that day I was alone with my two kids while hubby was at work and saw a funnel cloud come out of the sky a mile or so away. I honest to god thought the kids and I were going to die that day. Since then, I still have nightmares about tornadoes.

If not for that, I would have thoroughly enjoyed my (short) stay in TN.

[HillWilliam]

54. That's a pretty part of the world, actually

Red as hell, but the outdoors are a most vibrant green. I was raised across the line in the NC mountains, always dreamed of the day I could escape. (Small town anywhere isn't safe for gay kids.) Until I came back to NC (after some 25 years of being literally EVERYwhere else) I suddenly realized how much I missed the green and those summer evenings you can sit out on the porch and watch for shooting stars.

I REALLY agree: tornadoes are not my friend. It was about 1981 or '2 when I was in Austin, TX and watched a tornado tear hell out of Machaca (pronounced "man-shack"... why, I have no idea, but a lot of names in TX aren't pronounced at all like they look). I've suffered some near misses in FL, TX, and most unexpectedly a mile from where I live now just last year.

I got myself a weather station. Screw finding out after the fact!

There's always some down-side no matter where you are. I got used to tornadoes in TX, earthquakes in CA, hurricanes in FL, gawdamighty torrential rains in NJ, unbelievable negative-double-digit wind chills in Chicago. I choose to look at the good parts that make it worthwhile to be lucky enough to live there. Honestly, I've been blessed to do and see things most of the folks in my high school class (who still haven't traveled more than 50 miles from their home town) never even bothered to dream of. I've seen most of the continental US, Hawaii, Australia, Spain, and Italy. Granddad's advice served best.

[NoGOPZone]

48. Gotta concur with this, although the NE bashing I've heard

doesn't come exclusively from the southern transplants. Ironic thing is I wasn't raised in the NE myself, I simply didn't complain about everything when I moved here.

[pipi_k]

50. I could sort of

see her point about the cold and snow, to tell the truth.

But the thing that made me laugh was, doesn't anyone over the age of, say...12...even in TX...know that it's cold and snowy in NE?


I have a niece who was born here but her parents moved to FL when she was just a small child.

She lived there for almost 30 years, then got transferred to Boston for her job.

She was overjoyed. I guess all those years she always thought of herself as a New Englander. She moved out to Boston last August, and not one complaint yet.

Funny how some people can be imprinted with an area at such a young age.

[divide_and_rule]

37. they are programmed by Capital to fight the culture wars and hate working class whites

you cannot reason with them. Both sides of the american political monolith have large armies of programmed propaganda-disseminating meat puppets that regurgitate propaganda demonizing factions of america.

you might as well be talking to your pet dog as talk to these meat puppets of the GOP and Dems. They cannot hear you.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. About that Kudzu....it's not from the South, it's from Japan, and it got introduced to

the US at the 1876 Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia. Which is not the South. So that Kudzu that comes North is coming home, and it is not really 'of the South' at all. It took to the South. It came from the East and then the North.

[HillWilliam]

45. Y'all can have it back LOL

We know where it came from. The pity is it was never managed.

Kudzu is actually quite useful: it makes excellent cattle fodder and a composted manure of kudzu vines (weeeeelllll composted!) can't be beaten for enriching your garden. The real pity is that very few have ever bothered to take up the task.

[randr]

42. Born on the Mason-Dixon Line

I smoke kudzu and use it to fuel my BMW.

[HillWilliam]

47. I forgot about that in my post up-thread

It makes fabulous bio-fuel and bio-mass for fermenting other kinds of fuel. The young leaves are edible and quite rich in nutrients.

[LanternWaste]

51. hose times I read or hear a narrow mind reciting his/her provincialism...

Those times I read or hear a narrow mind reciting his/her provincialism, I'm tempted to pat the little guy on the head, say "bless your little biased heart", and hope he reads more informative and substantive matter in the future.



People are people. Some live here. Some live there.

[bvar22]

52. My Wife & I moved South in 2006.

From Minneapolis to The Woods of rural Arkansas.
The South is BEAUTIFUL, and belongs to us ALL.


We drink from a spring,
Burn Oak & Hickory in a Wood Stove for heat,
Grow the Best Tastin Veggies and Berries EVER,
Thank the chickens for their eggs,
Get real dirt on us almost every day,
And can see the Stars at night.
Who could ask for more?



----bvar22 & Starkraven
Helping Turn the South Blue

[Jim Lane]

53. Isn't national Democratic Party involvement a mixed blessing for Southern progressives?

My impression (Yankee who lived three years in NC) was that Republicans achieved some electoral gains by tying Southern Democrats to the national party.

Within each major party, there are ideological differences by region, as politicians tend to adapt to their local electorates. Here in the Northeast, Democrats sometimes try to embarrass Republicans by lumping them in with the far-right Republicans from less liberal parts of the country. In the South, don't Republicans sometimes act as if they were running against Nancy Pelosi, instead of the much more conservative Democrat who's actually on the ballot?

The bottom line is -- do you want national Democratic Party figures, who support marriage equality and gun control, being the prominent face of the party in states or districts where those views are unpopular (and aren't shared by the local Democrats)?

[Are_grits_groceries]

55. We could always use the money.

In addition, in 2008, a lesbian came within a couple of percentage points of defeating an incumbent GOP loon. That she almost pulled it off is no small feat. She only got any help near the end.

Obama was here for the Dem Primary and that was it. If he at least had set up the type of organization he had elsewhere, she might have made it. It's never going to be easy here. However, we have a large African-American population that is left in the lurch with the progressives.

Nikki Haley is despised by 98% of the population, and the GOPeas will probably primary her because she made them so mad.

My 85 year old aunt who never put foot in a political debate went to work for the Dem governor candidate she dislikes Haley so much. She also said that she didn't think Obama had been given a fair chance. A cousin my age said he was no longer voting Republican because their policies oly helped the rich.

When you have movement of people like my relatives, there is some serious questioning going on. You'll never see it in any national story, but this state is nuts. Never assume anything about SC.