Russia isn't even close to being the most homophobic country.

[cali]

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

It's not the country where it's most dangerous to be GLBT. It's the country that some want to portray that way for political reasons.

Yes, it sucks, but reading DU recently and other internet sites lately, you'd think that Russia is not only the worst country in which to be gay, but the only country where being gay means being oppressed. It is not.

What's worse? Jamaica, for one. Right here in our own hemisphere.

In Jamaica it's illegal and punishable by jail time for men to have sex with other men.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) persons in Jamaica face legal and social issues not experienced by non-LGBT people. Sexual acts between men are punishable with up to ten years imprisonment. Sexual acts between women are legal.

Jamaica has been described by some human rights groups as the most homophobic place on Earth because of the high level of violent crime directed at LGBT people.[1] The United States Department of State said that in 2012, "[h]omophobia was widespread in the country".[2] The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights in 2012 said that "discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression is widespread throughout Jamaica, and ... discrimination against those in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and intersex ... communities is entrenched in Jamaican State institutions. Those who are not heterosexual or cisgender face political and legal stigmatization, police violence, an inability to access the justice system, as well as intimidation, violence, and pressure in their homes and communities."[3]:page: 95 Human Rights Watch said in 2012 that because of homophobia, "human rights defenders advocating the rights of LGBT people are not safe in Jamaica".[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Jamaica

In fact, the Caribbean is worse than Russia when it comes to anti-GLBT laws.

There are 76 countries and several territories where homosexuality is illegal

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/

Let's stop pretending that Russia is unique. Sadly, it is not.

[ProSense]

1. Does Russia need defending on LGBT rights? n/t

[cali]

2. Can you read? With any comprehension?

I am clearly not defending Russia on LGBT rights, pro.

I am pointing out a degree of hypocrisy that's startling. Even for DU.

[BlueJazz]

5. I'll do it for you.

[cali]

6. why thank you. I do appreciate being saved a head banging.

[ProSense]

11. What "hypocrisy"? Who is claiming that Russia is the "most homophobic country"?

People can and should condemn Russia's policies.

[SidDithers]

21. Apparently, only the MOST homophobic country can be criticized...

Less homophobic countries get a pass, 'cause they took in Paul Revere.

Sid

[arely staircase]

25. get with it, sid

he's Harriet Tubman now.

[SidDithers]

32. Wait, I thought Evo Morales was Harriet Tubman...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023165190



Sid

[KharmaTrain]

107. Of Course He's Paul Revere...just listen to this source:

[CakeGrrl]

68. BINGO!

Any country who takes in Snowden gets a whitewash on its wrongdoing.

And the pro-Snowden crowd has the nerve to toss the term 'apologist' around like it doesn't apply to them.

[Scootaloo]

105. Aaaand there's the only reason any of you give a shit about LGBT people in Russia

So thanks for clearing that up.

[Vanje]

54. I absolutely agree with you

It may be the end times.

[awoke_in_2003]

88. I know how you feel. nt

[ZombieHorde]

78. I have to agree with you on this one. nt

[Life Long Dem]

44. Of course your not defending Russia.

[JackRiddler]

77. Well, at least now you know that...

the official party line is that we are at war with Eurasia and always have been.

I have no idea how anyone could misinterpret what you wrote, and thanks for saying it.

[Whisp]

3. so Snowden should go to Jamaica and call it great for human rights?

What's your point?
Nevermind.

[cali]

10. Hypocrisy. thanks for illustrating it so well.

[AppleBottom]

14. So where did Snowden proclaim Russia is great for human rights?

The lies really just need to stop.

[arely staircase]

26. where? in Russia.

[Whisp]

45. Here:

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/52480391#52480391

Snowden: Russia first to stand against human rights violations
Officials are criticizing Edward Snowden for calling Russia and other countries that have offered him asylum as nations that stand against human rights violations. Slate’s Michael Yglesias and the panel give their perspective on MSNBC’s NOW with Alex Wagner.

==
You are correct about the lies needing to stop...

[AppleBottom]

49. Equating one human rights violation to all human rights violations is simply false.

Edward Snowden was clearly talking about the right of asylum in accordance with international law.

[Whisp]

51. nothing Snowden talks about is clear...

twist and bend all you like, but the man has a few loose screws and is being taken advantage of by someone way higher up in the food chain.

[AppleBottom]

53. That's a nice distraction, so what about the substance of the information he released?

[Whisp]

55. I am waiting for substance...

I want proof that he can hack into the President's email and phone accounts.

Without definitive proof, he's just a con artist.

[AppleBottom]

57. That's not really the substance of the information he released...

[Whisp]

58. so it doesn't matter to you that he is a fabricator

and uses words to excite people and not provide any evidence of what he is claiming?

It does to me. A person's character has much to do with the intent.

[MineralMan]

4. Well, that's OK, then, eh?

I don't think so. Of course Russia is not unique. There's still homophobia in the US, too. However, the tide seems to have turned here, or is turning. Russia is ramping up its official homophobia, though.

That is worthy of note. Wherever it exists, it should be condemned, don't you think? Russia's laws regarding this raise a natural question about participation in the Olympic games and other issues. Do you think it's OK that Russia is sanctioning homophobia by law?

Does the fact that other countries have even worse laws and policies make Russia's official homophobia less objectionable?

[cali]

8. no. And you know I said no such thing- which makes your comment, particularly despicable.

My op is clearly condemning all homophobia and pointing out some disgusting hypocrisy that's been playing out on DU.

Putting words in the mouths of others that they never came close to uttering is inexcusable. Congrats on engaging in it.

[AppleBottom]

7. Honestly a lot of the sudden faux outrage has nothing to do with Russia's policy that has been

Around For decades. Like you very clearly pointed out. Jamaica a favorite tourist destination for many Americans has a far worse civil policy towards LGBT individuals. Yet there is no poutrage there.

[cali]

9. Exactly. That is the point of my op.

Russia's ramping up of homophobia is despicable. So is using that in order to vilify Snowden. And that's been going on like crazy.

It is disgusting.

[KittyWampus]

13. I'd say your attempt to downplay it is disgusting.

[cali]

15. I'm not attempting to downplay anything- and you know that.

You and your ilk- using homophobia to demonize Snowden, is disgusting. You care more about doing that than you do about homophobia.

[KittyWampus]

18. "You and your ilk". I don't think I've responded to one thread about Russia/Homophobia/Snowden.

So you can take your bogus mischaracterization and do something appropriate with it.

And furthermore, there are very few threads even pushing what you allege.

But HEY, you got a thread that will popular with all the cool kidz. LOLZ

[morningfog]

96. You have commented on many Snowden/Russia threads, and up to

now, and including now, you have always been in lock step with "your ilk." There was nothing bogus about her characterization.

[AppleBottom]

16. Pointing out a false equivalancey is not downplaying anything

Cali is simply disassociating the false argument that Snowden = Russia's LGBT policies.
This blatant attempt at poisoning the well is intended to silence conversation and NOT promote it.

[KittyWampus]

19. Um, no. Cali is seeking attention by starting a thread w/a bogus assertion. There aren't that many

threads, posts or DU'ers doing what she alleges.

Furthermore, Russia's latest crackdown on GLBT population HAS been in the news regardless AND now the Olympics are coming up.

[AppleBottom]

20. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3443357

And just in the news today.

http://news.yahoo.com/jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-mob-070446416.html

I'm not quite sure how hosting the Olympics ties into anything related here? It could just be used to push the goal post further out. But I'm pretty sure that Jamaica not hosting the Olympics has more to do with their lack of finances and infrastructure and less to do with their LGBT policies.

[arely staircase]

27. thanks for the publicity nt

[AppleBottom]

43. You're welcome

Honest conversation is much better than false equivalency don't you think?

[theHandpuppet]

30. Really?

I didn't see a contribution from either you or cali to this recent thread I posted to LBN:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014548826

And your use of the dismissive "poutrage" if offensive and one too-often aimed at GLBTs here at DU. Cut it out.

[KittyWampus]

33. That is one horrific news story. I cringed just reading the thread title.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Sorry if you thought my post was aimed at you

I was responding to cali and AppleBottom, just to be clear.

[AppleBottom]

35. Huh?! I've never visited those forums

And I already posted a link to that article on this thread?
As far as the poutrage comments go, I apologize. It was not meant to offend or belittle anyone of the LGBT community. It was a sideways jab at the same people that try to be dismissive of the NSA's many illegal activities.

[theHandpuppet]

37. You never visit the Late Breaking News forum?

That's where I posted the thread about homophobic attacks in Jamaica.

[AppleBottom]

41. No, sorry my bad, I thought you were talking about a different forum

I hadn't seen that thread in LBN.

[theHandpuppet]

66. I understand...

You must have thought I was referring to the LGBT forum.

Anyway... yes, there are threads alerting to GLBT abuses around the globe but apparently most of DU takes little interest in the slaughter that's happening ALL THE TIME. In addition to the thread I posted regarding the murder in Jamaica, I also recently posted a thread about the murder of gay rights workers in Cameroon. An awful lot of folks around here get more upset and vocal at the abuse of a pet than the murder of gay people. After a while you're not particularly motivated to post such news because you can get the feeling no one really gives a shit.

[Catherina]

87. Oh gawd, I was just about to post that tragic story

and it's not the first from Jamaica. I'm sorry I too missed your thread. DU is moving so fast right now that between keeping up with external news sources, other forms of activism and real life, it's become impossible to keep up. I'm really sorry about that but thank you for posting it here days, days ago.



In Jamaica, transgender teen murdered by mob

Associated Press
DAVID McFADDEN 5 hours ago

MONTEGO BAY, Jamaica (AP) — Dwayne Jones was relentlessly teased in high school for being effeminate until he dropped out. His father not only kicked him out of the house at the age of 14 but also helped jeering neighbors push the youngster from the rough Jamaican slum where he grew up.

By age 16, the teenager was dead — beaten, stabbed, shot and run over by a car when he showed up at a street party dressed as a woman. His mistake: confiding to a friend that he was attending a "straight" party as a girl for the first time in his life.

"When I saw Dwayne's body, I started shaking and crying," said Khloe, one of three transgender friends who shared a derelict house with the teenager in the hills above the north coast city of Montego Bay. Like many transgender and gay people in Jamaica, Khloe wouldn't give a full name out of fear.

"It was horrible. It was so, so painful to see him like that."

International advocacy groups often portray this Caribbean island as the most hostile country in the Western Hemisphere for gay and transgender people. After two prominent gay rights activists were murdered, a researcher with the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch in 2006 called the environment in Jamaica for such groups "the worst any of us has ever seen."

...

Advocates say much of the homophobia is fueled by a nearly 150-year-old anti-sodomy law that bans anal sex as well as by dancehall reggae performers who flaunt anti-gay themes. The island's main gay rights group estimated that two homosexual men were killed for their sexual orientation last year, and 36 were the victims of mob violence.

...

Some say the hostility partly stems from the legacy of slavery when black men were sometimes sodomized as punishment or humiliation. Some historians believe that practice carried over into a general dread of homosexuality.

...

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/vCvGwfJpWC5csN1rSdKyYQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTY0MTtweW9mZj0wO3E9ODU7dz05NjA-/
In this Aug. 3, 2013 photo, pink curtains adorn an empty room that once belonged to Dwayne Jones

...

MORE: http://news.yahoo.com/jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-mob-070446416.html

[arely staircase]

70. here is what hypocrisy looks like

"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things [surveillance on its citizens]... I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded... "

[joshcryer]

95. This is false. Russia's been increasing the homophobic rhetoric.

Russia was freer as far as homosexual rights a few years ago than it is now.

Putin has been channeling neo-nationalist rhetoric to get rid of dissent within the country.

The ban on gay pride marches only was inacted a couple of years ago (2011).

The law against gay "propaganda" was implemented this year.

This is a regression not a progression.

[KittyWampus]

12. Well, Jamaica isn't hosting Olympics are they? FURTHERMORE, Russia's homophobic laws

have been in the news BEFORE S. even got there.

[sufrommich]

17. Russia's anti gay laws are in the news because

it's hosting the Winter Olympics,which millions of people around the world have an interest in. My guess is that if Jamaica ever gets the Summer Olympics,you'll see the same protests as you're seeing with Russia.When China held the Olympics there were human rights protests too.

[dipsydoodle]

22. What bought it to the fore

was the unifying law for the whole of Russia as passed by the Duma. Many regions of Russia had had local laws on the subject for years and as such it was inevitable the vote would pass. I don't recall any mention of those other laws in the past here.

With the best will in the world I doubt Jamiaca could afford to host the Olympics.

[arely staircase]

23. you won't catch me in any of them nt

[dipsydoodle]

24. Indeed.

And if anyone does go there do not refer to anyone you don't know personally as being batty - might not go down too well.

[Zorra]

28. Thanks, cali. Russia is still a conservative hatehole, but it is certainly not unique

in its rampant homophobia/transphobia.

[name not needed]

29. "Come on, it's only jail. It's not like they're being killed!"

[LuvNewcastle]

39. [phone] n/t

[RKP5637]

50. I incorrectly alerted on your post! My apologies! When I read it I didn't see

the connection, but some folks on the jury pointed out my error! Sorry!

[HiPointDem]

64. actually they're not even being jailed much. similar provincial laws in 10 regions resulted in

one conviction, & three different courts ruled that such laws did *not* prevent people from exercising their free speech rights in things like gay pride parades, etc.

[Egnever]

109. Holy sheep dip batman

You serious with that crap?

[HiPointDem]

110. "There have been six cases in which individuals have been tried for “propaganda” under regional laws

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130812/182725729/QA-on-Russias-Anti-Gay-Law-.html

and fewer convicted.

here's one who was convicted (the most famous gay-rights campaigner in russia):

"Nikolai Alexeyev, the organiser of numerous unsanctioned gay pride marches in Moscow, was fined 5,000 rubles ($169) under a new city law that bans propaganda of homosexuality and paedophilia to minors, he told AFP."

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=19959

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Alexeyev


he didn't do any jail time.

russian supreme court decision of 2012:

Russia’s Supreme Court upheld a controversial regional ban on “gay propaganda,” but said it only covers the direct promotion of homosexual relations among minors, LGBT activists said on Thursday.

Pickets in support of and public discussions on gay rights remain legal despite the ban, passed by the Arkhangelsk Region's legislature last fall, the court said.

Informing minors about homosexual relations is also allowed as long as the information remains neutral in tone, the court said in a ruling passed in mid-August but not publicized until this week.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120913/175939700.html

[limpyhobbler]

31. I think maybe some are searching for any new angle to bash Snowden.

Russia is bad for LGBT but some of the posts seem to be specifically focused on the idea that Snowen is anti-gay because he ran away and got stranded in Russia.

It seemed like he got stranded in Russia when the US revoked his passport so he couldn't get to South America.

[AppleBottom]

38. Of course the deniers will never grasp the fact that Snowden only intended to transfer flights in

Russia, and that he never wanted to be there in the first place. But needed to make sure that the country in which he transferred planes from did not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.

These BASIC facts are never acknowledged by the deniers.

[LuvNewcastle]

47. It's sickening to me that people's opinions about gay persecution in

Russia seem to depend upon their attitude toward Snowden. Some people seem to delight in the opportunity to bash Snowden some more, while others don't want to think about the human rights abuses in Russia because they think it might reflect poorly on Snowden. The gay people in Russia need the world's support against their government right now, and they deserve more than having their fate decided by how much people love/hate Ed Snowden. The two issues are completely separate.

[War Horse]

62. You have a really good point there n/t

[cali]

71. I have no problem condemning Russia for its homophobia and recent laws

oppressing its GLBT population.

I agree that the two issues are separate and should remain so.

[limpyhobbler]

91. I hear gay persecution in Russia is very bad.

It's indefensible so I doubt anybody around here would try to defend it.

[morningfog]

97. Agreed completely.

[enlightenment]

34. I don't think anyone is suggesting it is unique, cali.

But it is a major nation expressing not just horrific bigotry but also actual legislation against the LGBT community. Granted, passing laws is not unique either, as many have pointed out, but it has also been mentioned that those places aren't hosting an international sporting event this year.

My son (who is transgender), works with LGBT (mostly transgender) youth in London. He tells me that the Caribbean community in the city is among the most difficult to reach - and that the youth of that community suffer a great deal as a result. He is very aware of the problems that LGBT people face around the world, and how the mindset of a culture can be carried to other places, believe me.

That said, with that understanding, he is at the moment very involved in protesting what Russia is saying and doing - and calling for a boycott of the Sochi games.

People can have an understanding of how widespread a problem is and still focus on a particular aspect at a particular point in time. Just because Russia is not unique does not mean that what they are doing should be written off as unworthy of notice.

I know you know that and I believe your heart is in the right place - but you seem to be confusing a normal reaction (focusing on the most visible example of egregious behavior) with a desire to make Russia the sole perpetrator.

[mitchtv]

40. there is a boycott active against Jamaican products

not much of ne, but it made the news http://www.queerty.com/world-brief-jamaica-faces-gay-boycott-20090414/

[arely staircase]

42. Their Tourist Board should adopt that as their slogan.

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I can see the commercials now. Russia - not nearly as homophobic as Jamaica!

[theHandpuppet]

63. Actually, Virginia needs a new slogan, too

Here's a suggestion:

"Virginia -- not nearly as misogynic as Saudi Arabia!" (Well, almost)

Yes, we should only take umbrage at those countries that are the worst examples of homophobia, misogyny and racism. Just quit fighting for your rights here at home and be thankful you don't live somewhere else. People, don't you even see how ridiculous that is?

[dembotoz]

46. i can multitask--lets condemm both russia and jamaica

not that hard really

[cali]

48. no, it's not. my point is that people are being dishonest with their very selective outrage.

[dembotoz]

56. i can go along with that--asshole countries come in all shapes and sizes

[Nye Bevan]

52. "The Iranian government alone has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals.....

.... since the Islamic revolution".

Exact figures are hard to determine, due to the political turmoil in many of the Islamic states, but as of 2009 homosexual relationships, acts or behavior are forbidden in approximately thirty-six Islamic countries including Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Indonesia, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tanzania, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan and Yemen, with punishments including anything from a fine up to life imprisonment.[18][19] Ten of those countries out of the thirty-six impose the death penalty for homosexuals. They are Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi-Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen and some states in Malaysia.[20]

According to the Iranian gay and lesbian rights group Homan, the Iranian government alone has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals since the Islamic revolution of 1979.[19] Laws allowing gay rights, seldom mean a thing in Muslim majority nations where the laws of Islam trump the laws of the land every time. Take for instance, Iraq, which does not officially have any laws discriminating against same-sex relationships, currently there are death squads operating in the country killing gays and lesbians (or effeminate men and masculine women suspected of homosexuality) on sight, and a shocking sixty-eight gay and trans-gendered men have been killed within the space of four months, often by having their anuses glued shut, followed by induced diarrhea.[21][22]

Also in the secular nation of Turkey, a country which is often held-up as a poster-child for moderate Islam, persecution and violence against homosexuals [along with non-Muslim minorities] is on the rise, with eleven gays being killed within the first half of 2009 .[23] This behavior is consistant with the results of a survey[24] released in November of 2009 which found that a massive 67 percent of Turks "would continue acting in accordance with their religious beliefs if the Parliament passed a law that contradicted religious laws." and only Twenty-six percent "would obey the country’s law in this case".

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

I concur with your subject line.

[mitchtv]

59. thank you for the list

I too agree with the subject line

[michigandem58]

60. Now you're defending Russia on LGBT rights?

And just to prop up Snowden.

[HiPointDem]

65. straw.

[DevonRex]

82. Suppressing negative information about Russia again. Pravda.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. Russian homophobia did not begin just recently - it became an issue just recently

[hrmjustin]

67. Homophobia is evil and must loudly be proclaimed it is evil.

Russia has recently put in effect some hateful laws and that is why LGBT folks and allies are making a big deal out of it. Not because of Snowden.

[cali]

69. Hardly the only country to recently put hateful laws against GLBT folks into effect

<snip>

Africa generally is becoming a dangerous place to be openly gay – no fewer than 37 African countries have declared homosexuality illegal – but Uganda is evidently the most dangerous, with a prominent politician called David Bahati championing legislation – bluntly called the Anti-Homosexuality Act – which would introduce life imprisonment for people found guilty of same-gender sex, and the death penalty for serial offenders.

If only this represented the ranting of a right-wing zealot, out of step with public opinion. In fact, Mills found perfectly bright schoolchildren who are likewise of the view that homosexuality is an abomination, and met a newspaper editor who insisted that it reduces the human lifespan by 24 years. A young lesbian told him that she had been raped in an attempt to cure her of her orientation, yet far from curing her, the rape left her pregnant and HIV-infected.

All this is a relatively recent phenomenon, apparently visited upon Africa by the growing influence there of American evangelists. And where angry shouting doesn’t work, glib humour is deployed. In the beginning it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, offered a panellist on a phone-in radio show.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/worlds-worst-place-to-be-gay/

There is certainly evidence that Snowden is connected to at least some of the ops about Russia and homophobia. People have brought him into it as a reason to criticize him.

[hrmjustin]

72. Well the religion room and the LGBT room have been documenting anti-lgbt activities of many nations.

Now you may be right about some posters doing it here because of Snowden but many of us here have been discussing the issue before Snowden was heard of.

[theHandpuppet]

79. Yep

I for one have been posting threads regarding the issues of global antigay violence and haven't even been involved in the Snowden debates. It's just that a lot of DUers haven't been paying attention to the threads regarding LGBT persecution abroad, even when those threads are posted to the major forums. If anything, the only reason many people here seem to have taken an interest at all in LGBT protest over Russian persecution is because of the Snowden affair. That doesn't speak so much as to LGBT posters as it does to way too many on DU not even noticing or caring about the ongoing global persecution of GLBTs.

[hrmjustin]

80. And if the Snowden affair helps bring light to the fact that LGBT people are suffering in Russia I

think that is a good thing.

Good post my friend.

[RZM]

73. There's a common thread here

That in many parts of the world, homosexuality is seen as a western import that is alien to local cultures. I think that's part of the story in Russia, Jamaica, and many other places as well.

[sufrommich]

74. Homosexuality is natural throughout the world,

it occurs whether legal or not. Acceptance of homosexuality is a western import,not homosexuality itself.

[RZM]

84. That's correct

I'm just pointing out how different people around the world see it. They're wrong of course.

[LostOne4Ever]

75. I could care less about Snowden

Fuck Russia, Cameroon, Jamaica, and all the homophobic hate holes in the middle east, carribian. Hell, Fuck every homophobic hate hole in the world.

Ill boycott them all.

Im still not letting Russia off the hook.

[pnwmom]

76. It's the most homophobic country that's hosted an Olympics this century. n/t

[DevonRex]

81. So it's ok that Russia has a law to throw LGBTs in jail and anybody else

who just says being LGBT is normal? And OMG don't say that within hearing of a 17 y/o. You'll wind up in Butyrka or Black Dolphin.

Oh, and tourists can be thrown in jail for 2 weeks for wearing rainbow t-shirts. But they're not as bad as Jamaica. Except Jamaica doesn't HAVE that law. Oops.

[ZombieHorde]

83. Although I have yet to see any post claiming Russia as the most homophobic

country, I do agree that Jamaica is totally fucked as far GBLT rights go. Reggae is one of the most homophobic music genres that I am aware of.

[pampango]

85. Russia is better than Jamaica? Probably better than Iran and the Vatican. Low standard. n/t

[napoleon_in_rags]

86. The govt. has earned capital with its progressive stance on LGBT rights.

And that allows it the ability to point at Russia's less progressive stance disparagingly, and I for one won't complain. But yes, OP. LGBT rights in countries like Saudi Arabia and many others is still really bad.

[gollygee]

89. We shouldn't have the Olympics any of those places either

Russia is noticed because they are moving backwards.

[JI7]

90. it's because Russia is hosting the Olympics , China got a lot of attention

for their human rights abuses when they were hosting.

[alcibiades_mystery]

92. Somebody's making arguments for political reasons

That's for goddamn sure.

[joshcryer]

94. LGBT-phobia is definitely used by Putin and his right wing to suppress dissent.

I posted a thread on this recently: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113729757

It should not be ignored.

Russia gets a pass because RT is a favored source among the more left leaning DUers because RT is anti-American for the most part.

Russia should not get that pass.

As should no other state that suppresses LGBT.

Including the USA.

[morningfog]

98. Absolutely. No one should get a pass.

Especially when there policies are recently becoming so regressive. Russia needs condemnation and pressure on LGBT rights as well as other issues.

However, I find it rather distasteful to use Russia's bigotry as an attack against Snowden.

[joshcryer]

103. I would agree, to an extent.

Just because some might use Russia's bigotry as an attack on Snowden does not necessarily mean Russian bigotry doesn't exist. Even if those people have an ulterior motive, that should not distract from the fact that Putin is pitting Russians against one another. The OP seems to be a distraction. Russia's recent (and see the post I linked, it's recent) move toward LGBT oppression and suppression is new, and intended to keep the status quo in power in Russia.

[joshcryer]

101. Doesn't surprise me an anti-Libya Revolutionary would be against LGBT.

Poor minors being "exposed" to the idea of LGBT.

If you read my fucking goddamn post you'd fucking know that in fucking fact the Russian people don't give a fucking goddamn about LGBT for or against. They just want to live their lives. Putin and his right wing party is the one pushing for anti-LGBT.

Since you've been "quite banned" from LGBT for having the obviously wrong opinion, I frankly think you should be banned from DU as a whole for your last paragraph of absolute and indisputable bigotry.

[Creideiki]

102. You're not getting it

Minors are LGBT. A good number already know it. But hey, you're Russian and you don't find a problem with it, so what the hell?

I'm so sorry that Russia doesn't protect LGBT people from people like you.

And thanks for the Tu Quoque logical fallacy thrown in just for fun.

I'm sorry you're banned from the LGBT Group. Develop some empathy and demonstrate it. I'm sure that will eventually get your banning lifted.

[joshcryer]

108. I have a feeling that poster was previously Fool Count.

An anti-Libya Revolutionary Russian poster who continually made comments against Libya but for Russia. A pure Russia apologist.

[Creideiki]

100. And the Homophobia Apologist Award goes to...

CALI! Thanks, Cali, for pointing out that someone else is worse, therefore, a superpower being homophobic isn't all that bad.

No, seriously! You definitely earned this award.

Yes, Jamaica is worse. Yes, a lot of the Caribbean is worse. Yes, a lot of Africa is worse. Yes, a lot of the Middle East is worse. Let me know when Jamaica is counted a major economic and military power. Let me know when Jamaica is going to host the Olympics--or other international event--and have a lot of LGBT tourists and athletes/participants coming to the country under threat of imprisonment and back-breaking fines if they violate the host country's unjust laws by existing.

[Drunken Irishman]

104. The problem with Russia is that it's one of the largest nations on earth.

Jaimaca? Not so much. It certainly shouldn't absolve them of their sins, but it's also important to point out the larger role Russia plays on the international stage. It is a major power and holds immense influence, which amplaphies their anti-gay policies. Even more so, of course, with their hosting of the upcoming Olympics.

Does this mean they are the worst in that regard? Of course not. However, their power at the international table, and the immense figure Putin has made himself into, has made their influence on the matter much broader.

[madrchsod]

106. was anyone pretending that russia is unique?

[MNBrewer]

111. Just stop, cali

We know you consider out concerns about the escalating anti-homosexual pogrom in Russia is just a "revolting little political game".

[DevonRex]

112. +1. Pab had it right about Putin starting a "New" holocaust.

Deliberately. We have a very clear warning this time. We cannot close our eyes to it. Not again. Never again. Never forget has meaning.

[spanone]

113. it may be the largest, most powerful/visible homophobic country

[KamaAina]

114. True, but Jamaica, Uganda, etc. aren't G-8 countries.

Nor do they have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. There is zero chance that either will ever host the Olympics, "Cool Runnings" notwithstanding. And so on.

Probably the next country down the list more homophobic than Russia is Saudi Arabia, which isn't even in the OECD (the top 32 economies).

Same thing with some smaller countries having a worse overall human rights record than China. Size matters.