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mahatmakanejeeves

(57,586 posts)
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 01:22 PM Aug 2013

We still don’t really know how bicycles work

Hat tip: Jalopnik

Science Has No Clue How Bicycles Really Work
http://jalopnik.com/science-has-no-clue-how-bicycles-really-work-1040770947

That sends readers here:

We still don’t really know how bicycles work
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/07/mysteries-bicycle

Forget mysterious dark matter and the inexplicable accelerating expansion of the universe; the bicycle represents a far more embarrassing hole in the accomplishments of physics.

By Michael Brooks Published 06 August 2013 11:21

....
It is rare that most people appreciate the bicycle, but it is quite an extraordinary machine. Push a riderless bike, letting it roll freely at high enough speeds, and it can withstand pushes from the side – it will wobble a little, but quickly recover. In the conventional analysis, that is because the gyroscopic force of the front wheel, its mass and the spontaneous turn of the handlebars all act together to keep the bicycle rolling forwards. This has something to do with the gyroscopic effect, the force that keeps a spinning top upright. You can feel this by removing a wheel from your pushbike and spinning it while you hold the axle spindles. If you try to change the orientation of the wheel, you’ll feel it push back against you.

The first mathematical analysis of bicycles suggested that this is also what keeps a moving bike on its wheels. But although the equations were written down in 1910, physicists always had nagging doubts about whether this was the whole story.

The most definitive analysis came exactly a century later. It involved an experimental bicycle that had all its gyroscopic effects cancelled out by a system of counter-rotating wheels. The effort of building such a strange contraption was worth it: the resulting paper was published the prestigious journal Science.

The publication plunged bicycle dynamics back into chaos. It turns out that taking into account the angles of the headset and the forks, the distribution of weight and the handlebar turn, the gyroscopic effects are not enough to keep a bike upright after all. What does? We simply don’t know. Forget mysterious dark matter and the inexplicable accelerating expansion of the universe; the bicycle represents a far more embarrassing hole in the accomplishments of physics.


The research was done by mechanical engineers. Every mechanical engineer I know is into motorcycles, bicycles, or firearms. The article is two years old, so the issue can't be that big a quandary.

A Bicycle Can Be Self-Stable Without Gyroscopic or Caster Effects
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6027/339

Science 15 April 2011:
Vol. 332 no. 6027 pp. 339-342
DOI: 10.1126/science.1201959

A Bicycle Can Be Self-Stable Without Gyroscopic or Caster Effects
J. D. G. Kooijman 1, J. P. Meijaard 2, Jim M. Papadopoulos 3, Andy Ruina 4,* A. L. Schwab 1

Author Affiliations

1 Department of Mechanical Engineering, Delft University of Technology, Delft 2628 CD, Netherlands.
2 Department of Engineering Technology, University of Twente, Enschede 7500 AE, Netherlands.
3 Department of Engineering and Technology, University of Wisconsin–Stout, Menomonie, WI 54751, USA.
4 Department of Mechanical Engineering, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853, USA.

*To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: ruina@cornell.edu.

Abstract

A riderless bicycle can automatically steer itself so as to recover from falls. The common view is that this self-steering is caused by gyroscopic precession of the front wheel, or by the wheel contact trailing like a caster behind the steer axis. We show that neither effect is necessary for self-stability. Using linearized stability calculations as a guide, we built a bicycle with extra counter-rotating wheels (canceling the wheel spin angular momentum) and with its front-wheel ground-contact forward of the steer axis (making the trailing distance negative). When laterally disturbed from rolling straight, this bicycle automatically recovers to upright travel. Our results show that various design variables, like the front mass location and the steer axis tilt, contribute to stability in complex interacting ways.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We still don’t really know how bicycles work (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Aug 2013 OP
I bet they work just because they're awesome shenmue Aug 2013 #1
"What holds it up?" "Art." kentauros Aug 2013 #21
I like this answer best. Iggo Aug 2013 #26
Friction? Rex Aug 2013 #2
Magnets. n/t lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #3
How do they work? n/t TalkingDog Aug 2013 #10
Actually, bicycles are the ONLY real evidence we have... bvar22 Aug 2013 #14
Jeebus. Lex Aug 2013 #4
Path of least resistance, I'd guess cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #5
Where's the youtube page? Baitball Blogger Aug 2013 #6
Just get on one and RIDE! Blue Owl Aug 2013 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #8
So why do I keep falling off mine? dickthegrouch Aug 2013 #9
If you're anything like me, House of Roberts Aug 2013 #13
Hmm, wouldn't a 2nd set of counter rotating wheels actually make it twice as stable? Electric Monk Aug 2013 #11
No, counter rotating gyroscopes with the same axis cancel each other out Fumesucker Aug 2013 #16
That has the axles 3 feet apart. Wouldn't that be different than with the axles aligned? Electric Monk Aug 2013 #18
Was this an April Fools Joke? Progressive dog Aug 2013 #12
Yet, we put a man on the moon 46 years ago. Eddie Haskell Aug 2013 #15
Nonsense. A rotating object like a wheel MineralMan Aug 2013 #17
Except they used counter-rotating wheels to remove that muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #22
Actually, counter rotating wheels MineralMan Aug 2013 #23
'in the same plane' isn't good enough - momentum is a vector quantity muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #25
+1 nm MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #27
There's a lot more to it than that, gyroscopic forces are negligible at low speeds Fumesucker Aug 2013 #28
The FSM, cheese be upon its devine self, finds them a delight Throckmorton Aug 2013 #19
An object in in motion tends to stay in motion snooper2 Aug 2013 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author LumosMaxima Aug 2013 #24
These science guys are over-thinking this. Jenoch Aug 2013 #29
I tend to agree with the countersteering factor IDemo Aug 2013 #30
Just a few weeks ago, I rode a bike for the first time in 30 years. Link Speed Aug 2013 #31
Gravity, isn't it? napoleon_in_rags Aug 2013 #32
I'm kind of surprised about the dynamics they're using. reusrename Aug 2013 #33

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
21. "What holds it up?" "Art."
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 03:04 PM
Aug 2013

The planet Brontitall is a planet visited by the crew of the Heart of Gold in the Secondary Phase of the Radio plays. It is notable for three things:

Its primary lifeform is an Avian/Humanoid hybrid that has not set foot on the ground for endless years.

The entire surface of the planet is covered with a dry crumbly substance that is not stone, rock, or some other form of dry crumbly rock or stone that the reader is heretofore unacquainted with, but long-since decayed and disintegrated shoes.

A 15 mile-high statue of Arthur Dent throwing a styrofoam coffee cup.

The statue was created in the distant past of the planet as the population was about to reach the Shoe Event Horizon. A freak wormhole opened in the vicinity of Mr. Dent as he was berating the Food generator computer on the Heart of Gold on the poor quality of its beverage service. The sight of a man striking back at technology inspired the citizens of Brontitall to get rid of all of their robots, sending them all to a distant planet to make continent toupees for planets that have used up all their forests.

The Statue was the last great thing built by the people of the planet before they evolved into birds. The giant marble cup floats in mid air, held aloft by the Power of Art. Since it is artistically correct for the cup to be where it is, there it remains.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
14. Actually, bicycles are the ONLY real evidence we have...
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:35 PM
Aug 2013

... of the existence of [font size=3]"The Invisible Hand of the Marketplace".[/font]
Clearly, the only things keeping bicycles upright IS the Invisible Hand
reaching down from heaven and holding up bicycles to stabilize the Bicycle market.


ALL HAIL The Invisible Hand!!!

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
5. Path of least resistance, I'd guess
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 01:31 PM
Aug 2013

If the main weight of the bike has momentum in a certain direction then the angle of least resistance for the front wheel would be the angle most in line with the direction of the rest of the bike. (any deviation from that increases the friction on the front tire and the front axle.)

The gyroscopic effect is itself a path of least resistance effect in that it takes force to deviate the mass of the wheels, but there are also mechanical effects. The rubber of the tire resists dragging scross the pavement and the front axle doesn't "want" to be turned.

When coasting with hands off the handle-bars the direction of the front wheel trembles in a self-correcting way.

So that would be my guess for the "extra" non-gyroscopic stability.

(At some point the angle of the front wheel drifts enough that the path of least resistance becomes jack-knifing and you fall over, so it's just a matter of time, but those tiny self-corrections add to the time before that actastrophe, which is what the articles is about. Bijes don't fall over quite as fast as merely the gyroscopic effect would predict)

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

House of Roberts

(5,180 posts)
13. If you're anything like me,
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:17 PM
Aug 2013

your center of gravity is much higher now than when you were young. I weigh about 70 pounds more and most of it is from waist to shoulders.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
11. Hmm, wouldn't a 2nd set of counter rotating wheels actually make it twice as stable?
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 01:57 PM
Aug 2013

You would simply have 2 gyroscopes on the same axis of rotation, without it mattering which way they rotated, just that they were rotating gyroscopes

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
16. No, counter rotating gyroscopes with the same axis cancel each other out
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:47 PM
Aug 2013

There is no net angular momentum in a system of equal counter rotating gyroscopes hence no net gyroscopic force.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
18. That has the axles 3 feet apart. Wouldn't that be different than with the axles aligned?
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:58 PM
Aug 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_rotors

When they do it in helicopters, it's quite stable, although on a different axis.



(note: I'm not a mechanical engineer)

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
17. Nonsense. A rotating object like a wheel
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 02:47 PM
Aug 2013

tends to resist any change in the plane aligned with its rotation. That's why, on a motorcycle, you use counter-steering to turn and lean the motorcycle.

Momentum. The wheel haz it, in the plane of rotation.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
23. Actually, counter rotating wheels
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 07:40 PM
Aug 2013

Rotating in opposite directions are still rotating in the same plane, and would add to the stability against tipping, although they might counteract the effect of countersteering. Not everything on the Internet is correct.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,355 posts)
25. 'in the same plane' isn't good enough - momentum is a vector quantity
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 07:53 PM
Aug 2013

and if it's in the opposite direction, then it will not add to the stability. This is not just 'on the Internet'; this was in Science.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
28. There's a lot more to it than that, gyroscopic forces are negligible at low speeds
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 08:14 PM
Aug 2013

Bicycles are stable at five or six mph easily, far too slow for gyro forces to provide the entire impetus for self correction.

Center of gravity is important in two wheeled vehicle stability for instance, too low and the bike is too twitchy, get high and it becomes sluggish. Recumbents often have a low CG and are difficult to take off and ride at slow speed because they are twitchy then. Stability improves with speed.

Countersteering works mostly by actually moving the contact patch of the tires out from under the CG which creates a lean and then the bike starts turning, the higher the CG the more sluggish this reaction is because the further the tire contact patches have to move laterally to establish a given lean angle. It's like balancing a broomstick on your fingertip, it's doable at least for a bit. Next try balancing a pencil the same way, not doable for normal mortals.

Bike dynamics is a complicated subject.







Throckmorton

(3,579 posts)
19. The FSM, cheese be upon its devine self, finds them a delight
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 03:02 PM
Aug 2013

and by the invisible force of his noodley appendages holds them into balance,
Ramen

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

 

Jenoch

(7,720 posts)
29. These science guys are over-thinking this.
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 08:15 PM
Aug 2013

I am not a physicist, however the answer to what keeps a bicycle upright when it is being operated is Angular Velocity and Linear Momentum. I don't care why a riderless bicycle does not remain upright.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
30. I tend to agree with the countersteering factor
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 08:27 PM
Aug 2013

Having learned about countersteering over 30 years ago, any motorcyclist who doesn't consciously practice this needs to. Simply, to initiate a left turn, pressure is applied to the handlebars as if turning right. The effect has been argued by the experts as it is here; does the bike lean over due to gyro deflection, or because of tire patch displacement relative to the direction of travel, or a combination?




 

Link Speed

(650 posts)
31. Just a few weeks ago, I rode a bike for the first time in 30 years.
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 08:32 PM
Aug 2013

I have a car that tops 200MPH, and I know exactly how it works.

I have a '66 Vespa with a sidecar that is the most treacherous vehicle I have ever owned, but I know how it works and why it is so difficult to operate. Also, a 1910 Indian motorcycle, a '53 Black Lightning Vincent and a '47 Harley.

None of them are mysteries to me.

But when I got on that bicycle a few weeks ago, my first thought was, "Just how in the shit does this thing work?". It bugged me so much that I pushed it back to the guy who offered to let me ride it. The bike was all chrome with ultra-cool wheels.

Thanks for the post. I didn't want to tell anyone what I thought about that ride until now.

napoleon_in_rags

(3,991 posts)
32. Gravity, isn't it?
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 09:47 PM
Aug 2013

The front wheel is balanced so that it turns in the way the bike is leaning, simply because gravity. The majority of weight is in front of the fork. When it does this centrifugal force caused by the turn makes it go back upright, a small amount of frictio against turning keeps it on the strait path.

 

reusrename

(1,716 posts)
33. I'm kind of surprised about the dynamics they're using.
Tue Aug 6, 2013, 11:06 PM
Aug 2013

Fork bend angle is critical, and it isn't even mentioned in most of the literature.

I don't understand how one could perform this detailed an analysis and not be at least curious about how far the frame raises and lowers when the front wheel is steered.

How can they leave that quantity out of their data?

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