The myth of the eight-hour sleep

[muriel_volestrangler]

In the early 1990s, psychiatrist Thomas Wehr conducted an experiment in which a group of people were plunged into darkness for 14 hours every day for a month.

It took some time for their sleep to regulate but by the fourth week the subjects settled into a very distinct sleeping pattern. They slept first for four hours, then woke for one or two hours before falling into a second four-hour sleep.
...
In 2001, historian Roger Ekirch of Virginia Tech published a seminal paper, drawn from 16 years of research, revealing a wealth of historical evidence that humans used to sleep in two distinct chunks.

His book At Day's Close: Night in Times Past, published four years later, unearths more than 500 references to a segmented sleeping pattern - in diaries, court records, medical books and literature, from Homer's Odyssey to an anthropological account of modern tribes in Nigeria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16964783

I found this was happening to my own sleep patterns, a few years ago, when I wasn't having to get in to work at a fixed time each day - my sleep separated into 2 periods of 4 hours or so, with a couple of hours awake in between.

[JI7]

1. i think this might be me also

sometimes i fall asleep when i want to but it only lasts for a few hours like in the OP. but i get tired again a couple hours or so later .

but i usually just stay in bed and not do anything because i want to get more sleep because i know i will be tired if that is all the rest i get when i get up in the morning.

my life would improve if i was better with getting sleep .

[FLAprogressive]

2. Because of fibromyalgia, there are times when I sleep 12-15 hours a "night". :-/

With frequent awakenings usually lasting a few minutes.

[mopinko]

20. that's me, too.

[Warpy]

3. I have delayed onset sleep and stopped fighting it

If I try to sleep before 3 AM, I get a couple of hours of fitful sleep, three or so hours of being more awake than I want to be, and then six hours of being out like I've been poleaxed.

If I don't bother trying to sleep until after 3 AM, I get 7-10 hours straight through.

It sucks not having a lot of "day" to do errands and chores. It sucks even more not getting enough sleep and getting very little REM sleep.

[Liquorice]

10. I have delayed sleep phase syndrome too. It really sucks because

most people don't understand it. It's also difficult when I have early morning appointments, etc. Have you tried orange glasses that block blue light? I have read that they can help with DSPS. I've been using them for about a month, and find they are somewhat helpful. Some people have much better results and say the glasses dramatically changed their circadian rhythm. Here are some links:

https://www.lowbluelights.com

Here's a much cheaper pair:
http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-Anti-Fog/dp/B003OBZ64M/ref=pd_sim_hi_1

[Warpy]

16. I'm retired so I said to hell with it

and now suit myself. More and more around here is open 24 hours or at least open late.

I manage just fine.

[Mojorabbit]

18. I do the exact same thing.

I can be tired as can be but if I try to go to sleep before around three I only get fitful sleep and the whole next day is ruined.

[hughee99]

19. What is "delayed onset" sleep?

I've never heard of it except that your description sounds exactly like my experience for about 15 years now.

[Warpy]

26. Wiki has a good overview

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

I've had it all my life and have taken evening and night jobs whenever I can, finally going into nursing and clinging to evening and night shifts.

The interesting thing is that drugs don't work and behavior modification has very limited success. In addition, should we move to China, our circadian rhythms will adjust in a very few short weeks and we'll still be bright eyed until 3 AM.

[hughee99]

40. I've tried behavior modification

but was lucky enough to find a software job where coming in later and working later is actually a benefit to my employer.

Thanks for the info, I'll take a look.

[CTyankee]

35. Is there any such thing as TOO MUCH REM sleep?

I am constantly dogged by dreams I can remember and have a hard time shaking off when I first wake up. My dreams have always been vivid, from the time I was a teenager. My husband, OTOH, remembers very little of his dreams.

[RadiationTherapy]

4. Wow. This is me as well since returning to school and changing work schedule.

Interesting.

[warrior1]

5. Thanks for the link.

I'll pass this along.

[NCarolinawoman]

6. This is interesting and makes me feel better.

I always seem to sleep in three or four hour segments. After the first segment I feel refreshed and want to do all kinds of stuff until I get sleepy again.

Always thought this wasn't normal and asked myself, "How come I can't do the straight eight hr. (in my case, usually 7hr. straight thingy?"

This information tells me all is okay. Thanks.

[FLyellowdog]

15. Made me feel better too.

I just got a prescription for Ambien last week because I was worried about not sleeping for more than 3 hours at time and that was late in the night (morning). However, with all the bad things I've been reading about the drug plus this very interesting report, I might just quit worrying about it and sleep when or if I want to.

[lonestarnot]

24. I heard and read nightmare crap about that ambien. Sleep eatting, sleep driving, sleep whatevering,

with no recollection of the whatevering the next day. Be careful with that crap.

[FLyellowdog]

25. yes, my point exactly.

Plus it's apparently highly addictive. I haven't used any yet. My friend uses it and hasn't had any problems with it. She says her doctor actually takes 1/4 of a 10 mg. pill every night and does just fine.

I'm seriously a little scared about it. Thanks for your thoughts.

[pecwae]

31. Yes, please be careful

with Ambien. I found myself sleep-cooking and sleep-eating if you can believe that! For some reason the stuff made me want to eat. Plus, I had horribly surreal dreams. Now if I really, really can't sleep I'm using OTC Benadryl which has its own set of side effects, but no cooking and eating.

I've found that as I grow older my sleep pattern is changing and I try to adapt to it. If I wake up after sleeping for 2-3 hours I read until I become drowsy again and drop off. I don't usually get more than 5 hours of unbroken sleep, but I think I convinced myself somewhere along the line that I need more than I actually do.

[SoCalDem]

34. A sleep expert would have a field day with my sleep habits

On a "good day" for me..with sleep being enough for me to have some quality time, feeling energetic..

7:30 ish (PM) snnoze for about an hour

10:30 PM ish sleep again until 1:37 AM ( more times than not it is exactly 1:37 when I wake..)

awake until about 10:30 AM,

If the phone or doorbell allows, I can then sleep until about 3 PM, and then I am awake until 7:30 or so

It's been this way for decades

[Blue_Tires]

41. +1

[CTyankee]

7. I welcome this because I sleep for 4 to 5 hours starting at about 9 pm and then I am awak

and I read for about another 2 hours, then I sleep (with the help of a sleep mask) for another 2 hours.

It is a good thing that we are retired. Otherwise, there would be a problem

We are in our early 70s.

[IDemo]

12. I'm not retired and that's exactly my routine

Although I'm more likely to be prowling DU and other places than reading a book.

[Speck Tater]

8. For many years I have slept 4 hours, then woke up for a while then sleep another four.

I keep an audio book handy in my MP3 player so when I wake up I put on the book and listen for a while before falling back to sleep. There's no point in "fighting" it and tossing and turning because I can't get back to sleep, so I just use that time productively and don't worry about it.

Since I've been studying Spanish for the last year or so I find it's also a good time to listen to Spanish language audio books too. I'm relaxed and there's no distractions.

[mdmc]

9. interesting

[maximusveritas]

11. 6-7 hours is optimal in most people

I fail to see how just because this is the way things used to be hundreds of years ago, it is somehow acceptable or even good. Interrupted sleep impairs memory consolidation and restoration. It is true that you should not fight it and toss/turn in bed with your thoughts/anxieties if you do wake up, but it should not be your target.

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. The idea is that our bodies are not adapted to artificial light

and that the 2 sections of sleep is what we were used to for thousands of years. Once artificial light became cheaper and people found reasons to stay up later in the evening using it, we pushed the 2 sections of sleep together - but people might be better off going back to our natural rhythm.

[Louisiana1976]

13. I tend to go to bed around 1-2AM,

then wake up around 3-4AM and get up and read for about 2 hours. Then I go back to bed and sleep until 10 or 11AM. (I'm out of work due to being disabled so I've no reason to get up sooner than that.)

[cally]

17. I read about this a few months ago and it has helped my sleep

Now, I wake up at night and just relax, meditate, and read. I then fall asleep. I used to try to force myself back asleep immediately which never worked and I woke up tired. I rarely sleep 8 hours straight but instead have a segmented sleep.

By the way, I'm trying to find the article I read because it also talks about the politics of sleep but I can't find it yet.

[dmr]

22. Hi Cally, if you find it,

will you pm me the link, please? I'd like to read it, too.

Thanks,

[cally]

38. I'm still looking but I will PM you when/if I find it

[dmr]

42. Thanks!

[CTyankee]

36. I know that after I have read or gone online when awake in the middle of the night,

if I just lie there with my sleep mask on, and just slowly start counting, I eventually fall back asleep, possibly from simple boredom. This is how I squeeze out an hour or two more sleep when I am wakeful at 4 a.m.

[dmr]

21. Thank you for this. I thought it was just me.

I can't sleep before 5 or 6 am, sometimes later, sometimes, but rarely, earlier. I manage between 2 and 4 hours sleep.

I get up & in a couple of hours I could sleep again, but I feel embarrassed and guilty about returning to bed at late morning or early afternoon, that I stay up but I end up dozing on & off the rest of the day.

From now on, I'm just going to do whatever my body tells me to do. I'm battling pain & cancer, I should sleep when the old bod says so!

Thanks again!

[cliffordu]

23. My own sleep cycle has changed to nearly this EXACT cycle.

Four hours hard sleep then a wakeful 2 to 4 hours, then back to another 4 hours snooze.


I have NEVER been as productive as I am since I started sleeping like this..

[pnwest]

27. I am astonished to hear this is an actual "thing''!!

And kinda relieved! I was lucky enough to leave the rat race last fall, and almost instantly fell into this exact routine. I've always been a night owl, and was permanently late to work from only having a 6-hour night. But now I am up til 2, sleep 4-5 hrs, get up, let the dogs out, pee, watch a little tube, and then go for a " chapter two" for another 3-4 hrs. And I have been feeling TERRIBLY guilty and sloth-y about not really getting my day started before noon. But its a real thing!! I have not heard of this syndrome, but I'm gonna read up, and enjoy it!! This is why I dig DU! Thanks so much for posting this!!

[WCGreen]

28. Me too...

I love sleeping like that. I get more done, am more productive.

[malaise]

29. Very interesting

Thanks

[R.Blue]

30. Judging by the replies alone

Seems to be many divergent sleep patterns influenced by many different variables.

[Kablooie]

32. That's why I'm writing this at 3:45 am I guess.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. i have actually been mildly anxious for years

because of my sleep pattern which is very much like this article discusses. i was sure there was something wrong with me and it was going to lead to an early grave (ok, not THAT worried) because my sleep was failing me. i sleep for three or four hours...wake up...piddle around for an hour or two... and then back to sleep for two or three more.

now, in reading this, i am hopeful that i am not as screwed up as i thought (at least where sleep is concerned).

sP

[FarCenter]

37. Nights originally would have been 10 to 12 hours long

Humans lived near the equator, so sunrise to sunset doesn't vary a lot from 12 hours.

Then you need to subtract a half hour to an hour for twilight at dawn and sunset, depending on terrain, weather conditions, etc.

[TrogL]

39. I'm tired of sleep Nazis (pun intended, Godwin apologized for)

For decades (centuries?) it's been pounded into our heads that you must have 8 hours of sleep a night to function properly.

I rarely get more than four and function just fine, thank you. On the rare occasions when I do get 8 (usually due to medication side effects) I'm useless the following day.

A recent paper backs me up. If I get time, I'll find the link.

[Initech]

43. Kramer tried that on Seinfeld and woke up in the east river.

[Fuzz]

44. I rarely sleep. I hibernate often though.