Why do some people have a problem with other people attaining altered states of consciousness?

[raccoon]

Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this....

[RKP5637]

1. They are afraid of what they don't know. n/t

[madokie]

2. spoil sports

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

3. It depends on whether this altered state of consciousness affects someone else.

For instance, will children be tended to if a parent is temporarily in such a state? Will others get injured if a driver is temporarily altered?

In other words, some people have a problem with people attaining altered states of consciousness when that alteration impinges on others' well-being, health, etc.

Meditating in your home will not affect anyone, but being drunk and operating machinery will. Or being strung out on meth.

[izquierdista]

12. You will notice....

That when it is done in tribal cultures, a la Carlos Castaneda, there is the subject, then there is a guide who makes sure it is done right, and then there is the rest of the tribe, who watch for the entertainment value. Much different than the modern day frat (or dorm) party, where there is no guide and maybe not even a designated driver.

[Kellerfeller]

25. Exactly right

Of course there may be some who probably think people shouldn't do it because it is "bad", but most rational people I discuss it with boil it down to your point.

As an ancillary point, if it makes individuals less motivated to work or succeed (which it inevitably will in some, while may have the opposite effect in others) then it hurts the country as a whole in terms of the economy and having to provide those people with additional support. I don't know what the net effect legalization would have on this aspect and could probably argue both sides of it.

[Brother Buzz]

4. I have a problem with people operating machinery in an altered states of consciousness

[hifiguy]

5. It baffles me.

Years ago I read a piece by, IIRC, a professor of psychiatry at USC or UCLA that explained how human beings have engaged in deliberate alteration of consciousness for varied reasons since time immemorial.

Why? This was explained very simply. Human consciousness is reflexive, i.e., self-aware. Knowledge of this consciousness leads inevitably and inexorably to a desire, in some cases a need, to experiment with the boundaries of that consciousness. Experimentation with consciousness is of a part with the aspects of the brain that led to us becoming human.

The hostility of the modern era's powers that be to such experimentation is based on fear (of being questioned) and a desire to control. Altering the consciousness and reflection upon what is learned is threatening to established orders.

Like having sex for pleasure, the desire for experimentation with consciousness for pleasure (or insight) is hardwired into the human brain and those who cannot realize or acknowledge that fact are in denial of and at war with a basic part of human nature.

To paraphrase Frank Zappa, we are what we is and we is what we am. We continue to deny it at risk to our own psychic evolution.

[HopeHoops]

6. Wait, Dude. What?

[limpyhobbler]

7. because the news portrays all drug users as being in a pcp rage

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. As long as you're not driving or operating dangerous machinery,

alter away.

[Newest Reality]

9. Habitual

conformity cloaked in the belief that all thought patterns and their corresponding emotions are completely volitional.

From that perspective, what appears to be outside the range of narrower, closely clung to conditioning can stand out by contrast and challenge the projection of constrictive states that are assumed as normal.

It appears that the mind sorts for differences as a priority. When the degree of difference is over a certain threshold, then, depending on the conditioning and adherence to it, some kinds of unusual behavior or attitudes in others can trigger suspicion, fear, anger, and other self-protecting programs.

[Brickbat]

10. I have a problem with people doing it because they feel they have nothing else to offer, and that

the world has nothing to offer them. It makes me sad and angry.

ETA: I worded that poorly. I have a problem WHEN people do it because they feel they have nothing else to offer. I have a problem WITH the society we live in that makes so many people feel like they have nothing to offer.

[Journeyman]

11. Here's the best explanation I've read for the human need for transcendence . . .

The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/writings/huxley_doors.shtml


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." -- William Blake


(Journeyman: I prefer not to discuss the whys and wherefores of those who oppose such knowledge at this time. Perhaps another day.)

[Hugabear]

13. Have you never seen Reefer Madness?

That documentary should tell you all you need to know.

[LanternWaste]

15. As an aside, if you ever have the chance to see the film, Reefer Madness-- The Musical, do so.

As an aside, if you ever have the chance to see the film, Reefer Madness-- The Musical, do so. It may be one of the funniest bits of movie comedy I've ever viewed; and to be honest, the music, though satirically biting, is so toe-tapping and ear-worming that you may find yourself humming a few bars of it years after watching it.

The British actor, Alan Cummings is splendid as the Voice of Patriotic Authority...

[Stop n think]

16. based on a true story

Bet that guy in the bottom picture sold it to the guy in the top. I haven't seen the whole movie but misinformation like that combined with no instructions or tips printed on baggies, cans etc. One feeds the other.

[yellowcanine]

14. Who are these people you speak of? BTW this should probably be in the lounge with the other

spoofs.

[RZM]

17. 'Dude. It's like, society, man' [takes puff]

Actually I really don't know. I don't quite get it myself. I'm sure there's no shortage of books and articles about this.

Part of it is rooted in the fact that people know many intoxicating substances can be damaging to one's health. In excess, most of them are quite damaging and some can result in death. So there's a public health aspect to it. There's also the related stigma of addiction, which can be ruinous not only to health but also to one's finances and the well-being of their families. There's also the negative affects on behavior. Alcohol can lead to bad decisions, pot can make you lazy, heroin turns you into a zombie, meth can lead to all sorts of ridiculous behavior, etc.

I'm sure there are many cultural aspects to it as well.

[Sivart]

18. .

I think it is because if they admit that one thing they have been taught since childhood is a lie, maybe more of it is.

And they cant handle it.

Some people are content to just trust what they are told, and they are not curious, and they have no desire to verify what they have been told. Or maybe they are curious, but they have been taught the FEAR......

you know, the internet calls them sheeple.

Its like how some righties cannot tolerate ANY critisism of America.....even when we are wrong, we are right, because its america....

so even if pot is harmless, its still drugs.....so its still bad.

[davidthegnome]

19. Depends on how you reach that state

Depends also, on whether you're going to be driving or caring for children while in that state. Too many people I know think "altered states of consciousness" means getting all whacked out on hardcore drugs. If you really believe in the concept though, it can be done without any chemical aid at all. Bash your head on a wall enough times, or listen to RW Christian radio for a few hours, that would definitely alter my state of consciousness.

On the other hand, you could reach such a state by meditation, or heavy exercise.

[renate]

20. to be honest, the reason I've never used drugs and never wanted to is fear

Last edited Wed Feb 22, 2012, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Not because of the horror stories we were told in school, but fear that I would become discontented with the unaltered state of consciousness I would still have to be in most of the time. If you've looked into the face of God, say, after taking psychedelics, wouldn't normal life seem a bit dim? And I'm actually very content with normal life and normal consciousness right now, and feel very happy most of the time without having to do anything illegal or pay for drugs or even leave my couch, so I wouldn't want to risk losing that sense of enchantment.

I certainly don't care what other people do, as long as it's safe for them and others (e.g., no overdosing, please, and no driving under the influence). Well, I wouldn't want my kids to take drugs for the reasons I don't take them myself, plus they're illegal and I don't want my kids to get busted or get into financial trouble paying for drugs, and I wouldn't want them to get addicted to the addictive ones and just sit around all day getting high because of everything else they'd miss out on, but I don't have a moral objection.

Edited to add that, coincidentally, I just found this article at time.com:
http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/16/magic-mushrooms-can-improve-psychological-health-long-term/?iid=hl-article-mostpop1
about an experiment in which subjects had five sessions using an optimal dosage and said that the experiment was one of the most meaningful experiences of their lives, apparently because of the sense of oneness that they felt. So that's interesting, that it only took a limited number of exposures and they didn't have to be continued to be meaningful.

[pecwae]

21. Good question

and one I'd never have thought of asking or considering. I honestly can't think of any good reason for an objection. Plus, there's the fact that the doesn't always require the aid of drugs to attain. Intense meditation or emotion has done it for me on a few occasions. The event was much richer and the effects longer lasting than with the aid of drugs. As it harm none, do as ye will. I'm a huge supporter of those who seek their truth.

[eShirl]

22. Who has a problem with meditation?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

23. Some fear their own children will

will get hold of the substances used to get there. Users often sell some of the substances they use to support their own abuse of the drug.

And parents fear police will ruin their children's lives if the children are caught with these substances.

[Duer 157099]

24. Because the establishment benefits from a sleeping populace

That's about as simple an explanation as I can come up with.

[and ur bird can sing]

26. I could not care less UNLESS:

They get behind the wheel of a car.

They get violent under the influence.

They are raising children who are helpless and need sober parents to protect them.

They are living with me and thus I don't have to tolerate booze talk or stoner ramblings or deal with wasting money, etc.

[dixiegrrrrl]

27. Control issues.

"Why do some people have a problem with other people doing______________?"
is really the issue, perhaps?
dunno where this need to decide what is best for the other guy comes from, but it sure is rampant.