Peugeot and GM discuss 'strategic partnership'

[FarCenter]

Leading French carmaker PSA Peugeot Citroen is in talks with US giant General Motors on forming a "strategic partnership", French Labour Minister Xavier Bertrand said Wednesday.

Peugeot shares surged up 8.27 percent on the Paris exchange as news of the possible huge tie-up between the two industry giants spread.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120222-peugeot-gm-discuss-strategic-partnership

Maybe GM will be able to unload Vauxhall and Opel?

[LeftinOH]

1. After causing the demise of Saab, one would think European

auto manufacturers would run away from GM like the plague.

[Snake Alchemist]

2. I don't know I remember Saab before the merger.

"Know why it's called a Saab, because that's what you do after you get the repair bill" was a pretty common joke.

[snooper2]

5. Saab should have died in 1988

[blue_onyx]

9. nonsense

Saab was unprofitable even before GM bought it.

[Ikonoklast]

17. GM caught a falling knife when they rescued SAAB by buying it.

They should have ran from that deal.

[FarCenter]

3. Longer story -- Shares in Peugeot Citroen surge on confirmation it is in alliance talks with GM

PSA Peugeot Citroen is in talks over a possible alliance with Detroit-based General Motors, a deal that could dwarf France’s leading car maker’s existing partnerships with BMW, Mitsubishi Motors and Toyota.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/frances-peugeot-citroen-says-in-alliance-talks-following-report-gm-is-possible-partner/2012/02/22/gIQAzRZiSR_story.html

Maybe they can restart Deux Chevaux production in the US to compete with the Fiat 500.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV
I rode in one in Paris once. Among other features, no inside door panels, and you could see the window lifts.

[LeftinOH]

4. The 2CV was a genuine "peoples' car". I never rode in one,

but they look like what basic personal transportation should be. Automatic windows and locks are for wimps.

[snooper2]

6. And if you parked crooked you can just lift up the front end and move it over

LOL

[FarCenter]

7. The Citroen 2CV: cleantech from the 1940s

If you sometimes wonder why more energy efficient technology does not bring about more energy efficient cars, you should take a look at this collection of Citroën brochures (most of them in foreign languages) from the fifties, the sixties, the seventies and the eighties (more here, here, here and here).

These are all original, scanned leaflets of the legendary French hippie car "2CV" or "Deux Chevaux" (known as the "duck" or the "goat" in several European countries). In spite of all the high-tech that has been squeezed into cars since then, the 2CV from 1949 is still more energy efficient than the smallest model of the French car designer today. Why?

The 2CV was produced from 1949 until 1990 and sold almost exclusively in Europe. At the time of its introduction the car had an engine capacity of 375cc, a maximum power output of 8 horsepower (DIN-HP) and a top speed of 65 kilometres an hour (40 mph).

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/06/citroen-2cv.html

[Snake Alchemist]

10. They kind of gloss over the fact that it would NEVER meet US safety requirements.

Try importing a new European car (made FOR Germany, France, etc.) and check out the cost of retrofitting the car to meet US safety requirements. Thousands upon thousands of dollars.

[FarCenter]

11. And yet, the French and German death rates are a little lower than the US'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

See road fatalities per billion vehicle kilometers.

[Snake Alchemist]

12. Better drivers?

The safety requirements for US vehicles are far more strict and yet the death rate is higher. Probably more unlicensed drivers in the US as well.

[FarCenter]

14. More likely fewer young drivers and possibly fewer DUIs

My impression was that distilled spirits were expensive in Europe.

[Snake Alchemist]

15. I remember when I worked with the Germans that their driving test was insanely difficult and time

consuming. I'm sure that has something to do with it. I also think that if you are stopped without a license the penalties are severe.

[FarCenter]

8. Shock Therapy

This was not going to be a long trip. Even when his electrified Citroën was in its prime, Bob Hurst could never really predict just how far the car could go on a charge. "It all depends on how many people are in it, and how many hills you have to climb," he explains as he gets comfortable behind the 2CV's skinny, two-spoke steering wheel. Back in the mid-1970s, when the Citroën was his everyday car, the juice came from a dozen deep-cycle, rechargeable batteries; today, there are half that number aboard, and they're just run-of-the-mill, discount-store car batteries. Besides, this is a sweltering New England morning, and neither one of us relishes the idea of pushing the aged Citroën back up the driveway of Hurst's Phillipston, Massachusetts, home.

Hurst turns the key in the ignition--well, actually, the on-off switch--and the needles on the assorted gauges scattered across the dashboard quiver to life. With a prod of the accelerator, the Citroën leaps forward, making an rrr-rrr-rrr sound like reverse gear on a mid-1970s Honda. It lives! Down toward the street we go for the first real drive the car has had since Hurst put it away three decades ago. The motor's prodigious torque means that we can start out in third gear and stay there, forgetting about the other two. The trip is not fast, and not far, but it's enough to show that the 2CV still has what it takes to thumb its nose at Big Oil.

There would be no electric Citroën if it hadn't been for the dark days of the OPEC-induced oil crisis of 1973. Hurst was trying to figure out a way to get to his job as a school maintenance worker in nearby Templeton while leaving enough money in the budget to feed his family. "I said, 'By golly, I've got to do something about this. I'm going to go into the electric car business.'" If you think he was discouraged by limited funds and a lack of expertise, well, you don't know Bob Hurst. "Nobody around [to give advice], and no books or anything. I just winged it." To tell the truth, he wasn't completely green; repairing Ford Skyliner retractable hardtops in his previous job at a garage had given him a working knowledge of motors, relays and switches. "They used to come in with the top halfway up," he said, "and the owner of the garage wouldn't go near them."

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2006/10/01/hmn_feature7.html

At 500 kilograms weight, it should be a good candidate for an electric car. Some skinny, high-pressure tires, modern motors and battery packs, and LED headlights to get rid of the bug-eyed ones that are not aerodynamic....

[dmallind]

13. This makes sense if done right

GM can't design an even vaguely appealing small car to save its life - either in terms of aesthetics or driver engagement, but lately at least is doing very well in reliability and durability.

Citroen and Peugeot can't make a car with even odds of seeing 100k either, but turn out some gorgeous and very fine driving compacts.

Which means, just like Canada*, they'll end up with the worse combination......







*The old joke that Canada is the unluckiest country on earth. It could have had French cuisine, British culture and American technology: it ended up with British cuisine, American culture and French technology.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. I've always liked Peugeots

In France they have been known as 'papa's car', in other words, not exciting but a very reliable family car. I especially like the body styles of the 403 and 404 (below) made in the 50s and 60s. These were very simple and rugged cars. The 404 won the East African Safari, one of the world's most demanding races, for four out of six years from 1963 t0 1968. Peugeots were sold throughout the world. China and Egypt still have Peugeot 404s as taxis. I rode in one a few years ago in China. India still has thousands of vintage Peugeots from the 60s on its roads.