An Appreciation Thread For The Pope and Desmond Tutu.

[DonRedwood]

Yes. Me. Don Redwood. I feel the need to say thank you to the Pope and Desmond Tutu today.

While Russian gays are being brutalized in Moscow, while American-backed preachers try to talk Africa into passing laws that give the death penalty to gay people, we have these two leaders of religion coming out and saying:

"I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this.: Desmond Tutu

"I would refuse to go to a homophobic heaven. No, I would say sorry, I mean I would much rather go to the other place." Desmond Tutu

And then the new Pope asking what right he would have to judge a gay person who had a good heart.

This is a big deal. How many people will be treated better because these two men have come out with kind words towards gay people.

Gay Catholics have been waiting a long time for a day like today.

Ex-Catholics who have left the church can have some peace knowing their family members aren't being taught hate.

Wow. Just a terrific wow moment.

[Tx4obama]

1. Pope quotes...

Pope Francis On Gay Priests: ‘Who Am I To Judge?’

The institutional Catholic church isn’t known for being especially inclusive of gays and lesbians, but Pope Francis hinted Monday that the world’s largest Christian denomination could soon become a more welcoming place for gay men who wish to become priests.

Speaking at an impromptu press conference during his return flight from a trip to Brazil, Pope Francis responded to a question about gay Catholic priests with an unexpectedly inclusive and conciliatory remark. “Who am I to judge (homosexual priests) if they’re seeking the Lord in good faith?” he said, adding, “They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem … they’re our brothers.”

Granted, the pontiff’s comments, which are sure to attract attention, technically don’t diverge sharply from existing Catholic teaching. The Catechism of the Catholic Church already calls on the faithful to avoid judging homosexuals, saying that people with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies … must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity,” and that “every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”

-snip-

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/07/29/2373211/headline-goes-here/

Additional article...

Pope Francis On Gays: Who Am I To Judge Them?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-gays_n_3669635.html

[Humanist_Activist]

4. Pope repeats homophobic Catechism, people applaud him, why? n/t

[starroute]

7. It's the "who am I to judge" part that's significant

It suggests a certain humility that the standard Catholic line doesn't.

[Humanist_Activist]

9. Actually that is standard Catholic doctrine...

He said he doesn't judge homosexuals who in good faith seek Christ or being good. Both of which are code for celibate. This is the Catholic Church we are talking about, and this Pope calls gay adoption child abuse and same sex marriage comes from the father of lies, his words.

[William769]

2. I'm a yes on Desmond Tutu

As for the Pope? Talk is cheap, I want so see some action until then

[Bluenorthwest]

3. To equate the two men or their points of view is unfair to the great Desmond Tutu

I join you in

[Humanist_Activist]

6. To the Pope, the only good homosexual is a celibate one...

remember that, same for his church too, he said NOTHING here that is different than what the Catholic Church has consistently taught for over 30 years now.

[undeterred]

8. This pope is trying to follow the spirit of Christ despite the heavy weight of Church teaching

and he's doing a much better job of it than most of the popes before him.

[Humanist_Activist]

10. He sounds slightly less offensive, I'll give him that, but he is just as...

homophobic as his predecessors, and what he reiterated here is a slight rewording of standard Church teaching on homosexuality.

[undeterred]

11. Previous popes could have easily excommunicated gay priests

instead of refusing to judge them. That may seem like a small difference to people outside the institution, but to people on the inside its radical.

[Humanist_Activist]

12. Before the Church didn't care, Ratzinger changed it, then Francis changed it again...

the church basically had a DADT policy when it came to gay priests.

ON EDIT: Also a note, the term is "defrocked" if the gay priest in question is celibate after no longer being a priest, they can still be in full communion with the church. Note: sexually active gays need not receive the Eucharist if they are unapologetic about their sin.

[Brigid]

13. I appreciate them both.

And Pope Francis seems to have had the time of his life at World Youth Day!

[JI7]

14. Desmond Tutu is WAYYY ahead of the Pope and most people when it comes to Gay Rights

they shouldn't be put on the same level.

Desmond Tutu is one of the strongest supporters in the world for gays.

[JI7]

15. Desmond Tutu would rather go to Hell than an anti gay Heaven

Desmond Tutu would not worship an anti gay God.

[hrmjustin]

16. Archbishop Tutu is a great man and I am proud he is an Anglican.

Today's words from the Pope are promising.

[LittleBlue]

17. Well said

Perhaps this new tone will mark the beginning of a more accepting official stance between Catholics and gays. It shouldn't have become so adversarial in the modern world.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. There's tolerance and there's acceptance

I think the world would be a fundamentally better place if every single person on the planet accepted that homosexuality was a perfectly normal healthy thing. Unfortunately, there's not really anything you could get six billion+ people to agree on.

So, tolerance is the next best thing. Pope Francis hasn't suddenly become progressive on the issue, nor do I expect him to anytime soon. But when the leader of an institution that has historically been extremely antagonistic to gay people takes a position of tolerance, it's a good day for humanity.