Bradley Manning verdict to come Tuesday, judge says

[MineralMan]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-bradley-manning-verdict-tuesday-20130729,0,2078506.story

The judge presiding over the military court martial of Army Pfc. Bradley Manning has reached a verdict and will announce her decision Tuesday into whether he violated the Espionage Act and aided foreign terror groups by providing more than 700,000 classified documents to the anti-secrecy organization known as WikiLeaks, wire services reported.

Army Col. Denise Lind began deliberating Friday evening after nearly two months of testimony and evidence in the court martial against the 25-year-old soldier who, if convicted of the most serious charges, could spend the rest of his life in a military prison with no parole.

He earlier pleaded guilty to lesser charges of mishandling U.S. classified material, and for that he faces a maximum of 20 years in prison.

This verdict should be a major topic on DU tomorrow. My prediction is a guilty verdict on the charges. Given that the case was tried under the UCMJ, and that the facts are not really in dispute, it seems almost certain. A guilty verdict, of course, will certainly not please everyone.

[hrmjustin]

1. I pray for mercy!

[MineralMan]

2. That will come with sentencing, if it comes at all.

Courts martial generally rule strictly on the law, and if the violation exists, the guilty verdict is almost certain. What the sentence will be is another matter. I have no idea where that will go, frankly.

Personally, I consider Manning to be a dupe of people who desired something very different from what Manning expected. That may be taken into consideration, along with his poor treatment before trial. I don't know, though. Military courts are hard to predict when it comes to sentencing. Verdicts are more certain.

[hrmjustin]

4. Yeah I think he got used. I hope the court is merciful at sentencing if it comes to that.

[MineralMan]

7. I can't predict the sentence, although I'm pretty sure about

the verdict.

[msanthrope]

8. I hope he stays in medium security. With the type of convictions he's facing, though,

it would normally mandate his switch over to maximum security at Leavenworth.

Maybe he can make a deal with federal prosecutors and save himself gen pop. at Leavenworth.

[sally5050]

3. Just like with the Sgt. Kevin Benderman Trial, Denise Lind was told the outcome before she began

she is a Kangaroo for a Kangaroo charade of a Military 'pretend justice' court.

Denise Lind has the lost years of many men on her sleeve.

she will do what she is told to do, she has only steered the ship of pretend justice, pretend respetability, but we can count on the 'yes man' Lind to do what all army soldiers do, follow orders.

This was as far from a trial as anything I've ever seen.

But after sitting in a the courtroom of Denise Lind once before, for the Sgt. Benderman MOCKERY of a trial, she gave him 15 months for 'missing movement' which corresponded exactly with the amount of time they wanted Benderman overseas in Iraq.

JUST LIKE THAT TRIAL, Denise and her white male miltaristic uber evil complex of domination and subjugation, will deliver not only guilty but they will steal even more mores and from this gentle boy's life.

his torture was all the punishment to fit several lifetimes of sitting in jail.

if they give him one more day of sentencing in jail, then they are the most abominable saddest excuse for humans that you'll ever find on this planet, and those in the military should rise up and wonder 'how soon before I"m next".

[MineralMan]

5. OK.

I think I'll pay attention to the official proceedings, though. It's a news thing for me. You appear to have already decided how you feel about it, so I'll leave you to that.

[sabrina 1]

10. Yes, I remember that clearly. I had the honor of getting to know Sgt Benderman and his wife during

that trial. I remember how supportive DU was of Sgt Benderman.

She did however, throw out some of the more serious charges.

He is a hero, a true patriot, who could not follow illegal orders and should have been given a medal for his courage.

We are in a very dark period right now where War Criminals receive praise, and heroes. like Manning and Benderman receive jail sentences.

It will pass, it always does, hopefully while these two heroes are still living and can receive the apologies they are due and the medals of honor, now shamefully reserved for Torturers, the so deserve.

[sally5050]

15. You might like to see this video

his wife's tears are very real.

** they are both very honorable people. I'm sorry that she had to go 15 months without her husband because of some silly kangaroo trial officiated by Ms. Lind...

Denise lind is going to pass judgment on Manning's life that will have years of consequence.

Why doesn't the media cover this???

why isn't america up in arms over the treatment this person Bradley manning has suffered..

no amount of spiritual work done by Denise will ever give her back her honor or integrity.. both were lost the minute she agreed to a 15 month sentence for Benderman.

the sad thing is she is part of a system that felt he and Manning deserve such punishment.

[hack89]

16. Manning could have requested a jury. nt

[Thinkingabout]

6. When you do the crime you might have to do the time, theft deserves time.

[think]

9. Since Rumsfeld used secret law to alter the rules of engagement in Iraq

to make what would have been war crimes exposed in the Wikileaks video LEGAL then perhaps you are correct.

I personally feel slaughtering unarmed men in an urban environment who are helping the wounded is still a war crime. There are US Iraq war soldiers who have stated this was common occurrence.

Personally I feel war crimes being exposed takes precedence over the embarrassed diplomats.

Personally the people who learned of the corruption in their govts that lead to the Arab spring takes precedence over the bullshit our govt has pulled by supporting right wing dictators like the Royal Family in Saudi Arabia.

But those are just opinions based upon morals and ethics. The law really doesn't apply too much in that respect anymore. Secret laws and secret courts with everything including criminal activity actively CLASSIFIED.

So as no one will be prosecuted for gunning down unarmed men & severely wounding small children in the streets of Iraq we'll watch Bradley Manning fry for our sins.....

JMO Peace out....

[MineralMan]

11. The laws Manning broke are not secret.

He did not use the paths available to him before handing over large amounts of classified information. The UCMJ is not secret, and be signed documents saying that he understood the law. The verdict is almost certain.

[think]

12. The Wikileaks video shows war crimes and it was indeed made secret.....

But let's just focus on a pathetic whistleblower and ignore unethical govt behavior....

[arely staircase]

13. is he even on trial for leaking that video?

I thought thi was about dumping all the embassy cables.

[MineralMan]

19. No. I'm focusing on the court martial and the

upcoming verdict, and that only.

[think]

22. Ignore war crimes and focus on prosecution of whistleblowers. sure why not......

[MineralMan]

27. The verdict is going to come in. That's what this thread is about.

There are lots of more general theads about this. Or, you can start a new one to discuss all of those issues. This is about the Manning verdict.

[think]

29. Pointing out the inconsistencies in regards to the to the application of the law

is relevant...

A person convicted of aiding in kidnapping & torture that is a spy like Snowden just walked free in America.Yet you and other chose to completely ignore this and focus on whistleblowers.

The hypocrisy is in the pudding.....

[MineralMan]

30. I'm done with this subthread. Sorry.

[think]

31. Robert Lady guilty or not? Don't worry you don't need to answer.....

[Pelican]

20. Which war crime was that?

Please be specific...

Legitimate targets armed with AKs and RPGs...

[think]

25. Are you defending the actions in the video of shooting unarmed men

& severely wounding small children on technicalities ?

Feel free defend that. You know Rumsfeld changed the rules of engagement in Iraq so that these actions would no longer fit the criteria of war crimes by the US.

So have all the fun you want with that.....

[think]

14. And of course you mention neither ethics nor morality. Only law

Yet. When the laws of the US are violated by the NSA & The Carlyle Group you choose to remain silent.


Thanks......

[MineralMan]

18. It is the law that applies in Manning's court martial.

Ethics and morality are not on trial there. My original post is about that court martial, and not about anything else.

[think]

21. Ethics and morals are not important. Thanks for making that clear.....

[Pelican]

23. Right.. because that is what he said...

How childish...

[think]

26. He chooses to ignore the crimes of kidnapping and torture while focussing

on a whistle blower.And now you are his defense for that.

What don't you comprehend about applying justice unequally?

what don't you understand about ethics and morals?

[sabrina 1]

17. The laws Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney and the rest of the war criminals broke are not secret either.

Manning merely exposed them, as it was his duty according to his oath, to do.

But we are now in a period where War Criminals are entertained at the people's house, and heroes who honor their oaths, are jailed. This will pass, but not until we do our jobs as citizens. What we have done so far, has failed as this kangaroo trial demonstrates.

[judy]

32. According to the judgement at Nuremberg,

And the reasons why Nazi officers were hanged, is that it is a crime for a person in the military not to expose actions that are against one's conscience.
Manning only did what would make him a hero according to Judge Jackson's "Law of Personal Responsibility".
And of course, another tenet of the Nuremberg Trial, is the ultimate crime which is a war of aggression.
But of course, this only applies to the Nazis, not to us the good guys...

It will be another loss for the United States moral fiber and integrity, and for all of us, if Bradley Manning is sentenced to any long prison term.

But I won't hold my breath

[LordGlenconner]

24. The verdict will come in followed by

Blaming Obama for the verdict while setting up the 'pardon him!!1!1!!' Aunt Sally argument.

You can practically set your watch to it.

[KharmaTrain]

28. I Regret...

...that Pfc Manning didn't choose a different way to release this material. I'm sure he could have found a sympathetic member of Congress who would have been able to filter out the information that would show of abuses in Iraq & Afghanistan without embarrassing the U.S. internationally and putting intelligence assets at risk. The same can be said of Snowden...if he has real evidence of NSA abuse, bring it to a legislator or lawyer who can expose it for being illegal, investigate, litigate and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree that I expect Manning to get a guilty verdict and that he was yet another pawn in a game that got out of his control in a hurry. It's never going to be certain on how much damage his leak cost but he did break military rules and that's how he's being judged.

Cheers...