Wow! Ray McGovern roasts the Obama Administration, but good!...

[truth2power]

Puttin' the Pressure on Putin

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/07/28-5

Do the feckless folks running President Barack Obama’s foreign policy really think they can force Putin to back down? Can they actually believe they can achieve that by putting into play what they apparently consider a diplomatic “nuclear option”? The thinly veiled threat surfaced ten days ago that Obama will snub Putin by canceling their planned tete-a-tete before the G-20 summit in St. Petersburg in September.

Can they possibly think that by pouting, jibing and stamping their feet, they will frighten Putin into “behaving” as obediently as the malleable Italians, French, Spanish, Portuguese and Austrians did when they forced down Bolivian President Evo Morales’s plane for inspection? Morales was en route home from a visit to Russia when someone provided the U.S. with a “tip” that Snowden was hiding on Morales’s plane.

....snip

Obama, Holder, Carney and the rest would be well advised not to push any more geopolitical chips onto the table in a risky bet on winning back Snowden. Russia has the better cards on this one, and it is a mark of realism, as well as intelligence, to recognize “when to fold them.”

Otherwise, and particularly if Putin keeps seeing the pastel-tie empty suits pontificating on how Russia must do its duty in surrendering Edward Snowden, there is a chance we may see Putin take Snowden to asylum in Latin America on his own plane, overflying Austria, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal and Panama en route.

Leave it to McGovern to tell it like it is! "pastel-tie empty suits", indeed.

[snappyturtle]

1. I think McGovern has painted an accurate picture of

the situation and options.

[maddiemom]

8. McGovern almost always does so.

[morningfog]

2. Anyone remember the cartoon "Inspector Gadget"?

The Claw saying at the end of every show, "I'll get you next time Gadget! Next time!" Always to be foiled the next time.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Wow, what a worthless piece of "analysis"

We almost get somewhere at the very end, but McGovern's hopeless partisanship gets the better of him:

Scholars of Russian history make an important point that is relevant here: it is Russia’s deeply embedded inferiority complex vis-à-vis the West. Recite to Vladimir Putin the familiar adage, “Scratch the Russian and find the Tatar,” and see what happens.

In short, while Europe was coming out of the Dark Ages into the Renaissance, the Russians were for more than two centuries under the likes of Genghis Khan and his hordes – a period the Russians call the “Tatar Yoke.” This reality had very serious consequences and is deeply embedded in the Russian consciousness. In a sense, the Russians have been playing catch-up ball ever since.

Their struggle seems never ending, but now and again they reach high ground. L’Affaire Snowden is one of those “nows.” Russia occupies the high moral ground, helped immeasurably by the behavior of the Bush and Obama administrations, which have squandered the moral advantage the U.S. used to enjoy.

Sorry, Ray. But Snowden's incoherent flight from tyranny into the arms of a whacked-out, dictatorial homophobe only gives Russia the high ground in the eyes of people like you who are aiming hopelessly low.

[stevenleser]

4. Agreed. Trying to claim Russia has the moral highground at a time where they are ratcheting up the

repression against LGBT folks and their supporters even for things like merely displaying the rainbow flag, is pathetic.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Then there's Bolotnaya Square, Pussy Riot, Navalny

And that's just the high-profile stuff. I wonder how Putin would respond to the kind of opposition Obama faces every day without batting an eye in this country...High ground...

[stevenleser]

6. No need to wonder...

This is how he would respond

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko



Alexander Litvinenko was a former officer of the Russian Federal Security Service, FSB and KGB, who fled from court prosecution in Russia and received political asylum in the United Kingdom. According to his wife and father, he was working for MI6 and MI5 after receiving the asylum.

Upon his arrival to London, he continued to support the Russian oligarch in exile, Boris Berezovsky, in his media campaign against the Russian government.

In the UK, Litvinenko became a journalist for a Chechen separatist site, Chechenpress. Litvinenko wrote two books, Blowing up Russia: Terror from within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, where he accused the Russian secret services of staging Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts to bring Vladimir Putin to power.

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalized. He died three weeks later, becoming the first confirmed victim of lethal polonium-210-induced acute radiation syndrome. According to doctors, "Litvinenko's murder represents an ominous landmark: the beginning of an era of nuclear terrorism".

[Bluenorthwest]

19. On LGBT issues neither nation has any 'moral highground' unless we pretend they are the only

two nations on earth, then we win. High ground is in the Netherlands, the UK, Scandinavia, Australia, many nations that sadly are far ahead of the US, which still has legal discrimination against us in 29 States, which still has people being arrested jut for being gay in some places....
If you want to use us as some example of US glory, it would be better if there was some glory and no legal discrimination, don't you think?

[cali]

20. seriously? there are scores and scores of countries

on this sad planet where institutionalized bigotry against GLBT folks is maintained or growing. Russia is one of them. The U.S. has, over the past decade, moved sharply away from that. There are no criminal penalties here for being gay- though there are, not commonly, people who are arrested for sodomy under laws that are unconstitutional. And yes, there are anti-gay politicians in elected office in the U.S. Despite that, the trend has been a positive one

As for the UK, Scandinavian countries, etc, one factor is that we're a federalist system and that makes enacting a nation wide law that much harder because marriage has largely been regulated by the states. It will likely take further SCOTUS decisions for marriage equality here to become the law of the land.

[JNelson6563]

21. Right? Get the OP & Co. a towel

cause it sure seems as though that OP title was typed with one hand...

It's as though some have hated Obama so much , for so long, they are about to explode in their pants when they believe they have their justification.

Sad. Just sad.

Julie

[truth2power]

23. Oh, Geez! I just can't help myself on this one...

Females don't really need a towel, but thanks anyway.

Bad, truth2power...bad!!

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

9. Only to the partisans in their bubble

No wonder we can expect no change, partisans dismiss any option that differs from their own.

[progressoid]

10. In this particular political match, this is a win for Putin.

Yes, he's a tyrannical loon, but he got to pretend to have higher moral ground when Holder had to reassure (to the world) that we wouldn't torture one of our own. I'm not denying Putin's crimes, it' just that he seems to be winning this public relations game.

[BeyondGeography]

15. That's a more reasonable POV

It is a long game though. And what the article ignores is that one obvious point of the letter is to build a political case against Putin that prefigures, say, not following through on the planned face-to-face after G20 and/or making him squirm about the 2014 Olympics. Putin's ongoing failure to get over the Cold War and the fact that Russia is now a distant 3rd in a three-horse race has led him to act out against the U.S., and it's not just about Snowden (i.e. making Kerry wait three hours for a scheduled meeting and then ignoring him to his face). I think we're going to see a push-back, which has been well-earned.

[Enthusiast]

26. A POV never to be heard in the MSM.

We can accurately access the accuracy of a POV by watching the MSM. When a particular POV is completely ignored by the MSM, it is likely to be the more accurate POV. I'm just saying.

[truth2power]

25. No. What McGovern is actually saying

is that this is one of those rare cases where Russia can claim the moral high ground, in large part because Bush, and now Obama, have f*cked up so badly in the "moral imperative" department.

Faint praise, I'd say.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Wow-I just got this vision of "USSR-1"

flying across Europe with with Snowden and an escort of MiG fighters…

[JEB]

11. I thought Holder promised not to kill Snowden.

How very reassuring....not.

[blackspade]

12. Wow, that didn't take long.

There goes McGovern under the bus.....

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

13. People throw themselves under the bus. nt

[blackspade]

14. A swing and a miss....

[RC]

17. Yep. Throw everything except the fact of the hoovering under the bus. Then ignore or deny the spying

It they don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist, Right? Their ignorance must be hard to maintain in the face of reality. Thank goodness for those daily talking points, or they have noting to say.

[Sheepshank]

16. In the mad dash to make Snowden smell more pleasant than is real...

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2013, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

this author attempts to spray-paint everyone surrounding Snowden with the same febreez...even Putin. Then the author goes on to tell the Admin how to smell like Putin. I find this pretty weird.

[Scurrilous]

24. Good point.

[truebluegreen]

33. Instead of making assumptions about someone of whom you know nothing--

i.e. Ray McGovern--I suggest you look him up.

[Sheepshank]

41. Nothing I've read makes me want to change my mind in this case.

how about you read more about Snowdn and change your assumptions?

No?

Figures. Figures that your opinion differs from mine...but I generally don't think to demean another DU poster because of that.

[truebluegreen]

42. What have you read?

ETA: 'Cause if you think Ray McGovern deals in spray paint and febreeze you are sadly mistaken.

And what makes you think I haven't read anything on Snowden, or that I base my opinion on assumptions?

Hmm?

[snot]

18. McGovern = another hero; hope he's right.

[Catherina]

22. I'm sure he is

If you look at Russia's responses to this,


'Snowden can stay in the airport transit lounge as long as he needs to' (this was after the US tried to be *helpful* and arrogantly interpret their laws for them)

'How can we even be sure it's Snowden? He doesn't have valid identification. "We know that he is Edward Snowden only from his own statements."' (that one killed me).

This one too:

The ministry also replied to US Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul’s earlier tweet that the US was not seeking Snowden's extradition, but was instead asking for his return. The ministry explained that it could not comply with such a request, simply because the term “forced return” does not exist in international law.

"As a rule, the term 'return' in Russian law and practice is applied to voluntary entry of individuals from abroad into the country whose citizens they are," the ministry said.

http://rt.com/usa/nsa-leak-snowden-live-updates-482/

and always, every single time, the famous NYET, we won't extradite him.

[truth2power]

28. Only a small part of this article mentions Putin, specifically...

and in no case does McGovern portray him as acting out of any motive other than expediency.

The rest of the article is about the Messrs Obama and Holder dissembling about torture (its definition, and whether we do it ourselves or contract it out) and their pretensions to having a record on human rights such that any country in their right mind would want to emulate it.

Yet, most of those commenting on the article have been at pains to mention only that Putin is a vicious homophobe and a murderous tyrant. As if that needed to be said.

So, what do we hear about Holder and Obama's massive screw-up?

*crickets*

[Catherina]

29. I know lol.

I'm glad you reposted it. I posted it on Sunday because I thought it was a fantastic article. And as is becoming very common these days, the first responder was someone on my ignore list lol.

Here was my introduction to it:

It's a brilliant article. I recommend people read the whole thing. Ray McGovern rightfully points out how our death penalty earns us "the dubious distinction of joining a list with China, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia as the leaders in executing people"

The hypocrisy, the lack of transparency, the lies that so many people bent over backwards to cover, and still do, are coming back to bite us hard. And instead of admitting that burying heads in the sand and trying to maintain "message discipline" to cover for things we knew were wrong, or at least stopping the obfuscation, now it's everybody's fault for being racists or whatthefuck ever except the fault of the people who got caught and just pissed everyone off. This isn't even about Obama, it's about a surveillance state gone a-kilter. Obama's involvement is any of this is what he chooses it to be.

A writer at The New Republic had harsh criticism about that and pragmatically pointed out, that Obama should stop chasing Snowden, pardon Bradley Manning and pick up the ball with the public from there. That too wouldn't be out of "any motive other than expediency".

[Peregrine Took]

27. Ray McGovern is the best! nt

[bvar22]

30. The WORLD is laughing and ridiculing the US "Keystone Cops" efforts,

and the Transparent LIES being told.
If Snowden is as irrelevant as they insist he is,
the Obama Administration should [font size=3]Walk Away as Quickly and Quietly as Possible[/font] and NEVER mention Snowden again.

Everything the DO or SAY only makes things WORSE.
The damage is already DONE.
It is WAY past time to fold this LOSER hand.
[font size=3]Just. Walk. Away.[/font]

[forestpath]

31. K&R

[truebluegreen]

32. Well, pouting and stamping their feet work so well for Republicans

maybe the administration thinks it works with everyone...oh, wait....

[struggle4progress]

34. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 7/12/2013

R. CARNEY: Well, the President has and plans to -- has said and plans to travel to Russia for the G20 Summit in September, and I certainly don’t have any updates on his travel schedule beyond what we’ve said already.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/12/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-7122013

[struggle4progress]

35. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 7/16/2013

MR. CARNEY: The President intends to travel to Russia in September for the G20 Summit, and I don’t have any further announcements with regard to that travel.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/16/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-7162013

[struggle4progress]

36. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 7/17/2013

MR. CARNEY: What I said yesterday is that the President intends to travel to Russia for the G20 Summit. And I have no further announcements to make beyond what we’ve said in the past about the President’s travel to Russia in the fall.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2013/07/17/press-briefing#transcript

[struggle4progress]

37. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 7/19/2013

MR. CARNEY: Well, I’d say two things. The G20 is a body of 20 nations. Russia is the host of the G20 this year in St. Petersburg, and it is our intention -- the President’s intention to travel to Russia for that meeting. So I’m not sure exactly what that proposition is meant to suggest.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/19/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-7192013

[struggle4progress]

38. Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney, 7/23/2013

MR. CARNEY: As I’ve said, the President intends to travel to Russia for the G20, and we have no further announcements to make beyond what we’ve said in the past about that travel.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/23/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-7232013

[struggle4progress]

39. Press Gaggle by Press Secretary Jay Carney aboard Air Force One en route to Galesburg, IL, 7/24/13

MR. CARNEY: Well, the G20 is in St. Petersburg, so that would be a very wide sideline. But the President intends to travel to Russia for the G20 Summit, and as I've noted in the past, I have no further announcements to make about that travel.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/24/press-gaggle-press-secretary-jay-carney-aboard-air-force-one-en-route-ga

[Cha]

44. ray mcgovern starts out with a fucking lie and goes downhill from there.

thanks strugglefor4progress.. when I read what he said about "Pres Obama snubbing putin".. I'm like "really?" you're goin with shit?

"if mcgovern says it must be true" "he is roasting PBO so all is fair" Who gives a shite if it's true.. right? he knows he has his internet suckers.. "USA bad Russia Good" stupid

[struggle4progress]

45. You'd think that when the White House says, every frickin day, "The Prez is goin t'Russia for G20"

mebbe somebody here or there might take the hint that the Prez planned to go to Russia for the G20

[Cha]

46. Certainly not fucking ray mcgovern.. but, that's not how he

makes his money. Facts about the Obama admin don't sell.. this makes a much better gossip rag like those pieces of crap in the supermarkets.

[Safetykitten]

40. Nice!

[JaneyVee]

43. What would he prefer, dropping bombs?