Most Republicans today would applaud if our entire country went under.

[kentuck]

I truly believe that.

They have some sort of perverse thought that government does not include we, the people. Or that we, the people, might also include them? Government is the enemy. They have memorized Ronald Reagan's words about "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you". Government, to them, is just a bunch of liberals sucking up all their tax dollars.

I believe they do not see government as legitimate so therefore if they can find a way to give money to their friends in the form of taxcuts or military contracts or farm subsidies or even, if they outright steal the money from the government, then it is all perfectly OK with them. They live the lie.

They honestly do not understand why we would have any type of social contract with our friends or communities. Many are under the illusion that they could survive without anyone else. They want to make sure they do not miss out on a penny of their deserved and hard-earned Social Security, Medicare, or veteran's pension.

Also, they believe that Democrats buy poor people's votes by giving them welfare and food stamps. They seem to be incapable of understanding that the poorest states in this country are in the South and most of them are all very Republican. Obviously, the Democratic strategy is failing.

I see little true patriotism in them. They are mostly fake patriots. But I don't think they have always been like this. This is the end result of years and years of propaganda and indoctrination. They are not trustworthy. They are rather like skunks at a picnic... But you knew that already.

.

[randysoames]

1. could that event be a good thing for the citizens?

you assume otherwise, obviously, but what would be the effects of a dissolution of the union, and could that be a good thing for most americans?

[Skittles]

2. EXHIBIT #1

[randysoames]

6. so...

certain things are just assumed and never discussed?

[Skittles]

8. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

we've heard it all before

[kentuck]

4. We have learned that lesson already.

Only fools would want to do it again.

[Skittles]

9. teabagging gun nuts, certainly

[Hoyt]

15. Depends on who captures power, and how long we fight over it.

[johnd83]

20. It would be an economic and social catastrophe

Each state would be a very small power in the world, and the natural resources are not well spread out between the states. I think a lot of people in farm country think that they would be ok, but without fuel, fertilizers, and a whole host of other supplies that are not available in the midwest agriculture would collapse resulting in the deaths of millions of people. Would a stable steady-state condition eventually exist? Maybe, but the intervening years would be catastrophic.

Also, the liberal/conservative divide in not by state. NY is quite conservative and TX is quite liberal. The divide within the states is only a few percentage points. The idea of breaking up the country is stupid propaganda that only makes sense to the idiots that buy into it.

[randysoames]

21. how about denmark, sweden, austria, switz, sweden etc

they are the best places in the world to live. And yet they are small, without much in the way of natural resources, in general.

[johnd83]

22. They have resources

Actually most of those countries have very significant natural resources. Switzerland is funded by shading banking.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. Norway is a good country with lots of oil

[Lizzie Poppet]

25. I don't envision a breakup into individual states.

More like a half dozen or so regional polities...

[johnd83]

26. There would be 10-20 years of complete economic collapse no matter what

Look at Syria or any of the African countries during the civil war. Do you really think it would be any less chaotic here? The idea of a peaceful breakup is wishful thinking.

[Lizzie Poppet]

24. If the dissolution is peaceful, it could be no bad thing.

I could see a breakup into 6-8 regional polities...and I have no problem whatsoever with that. We're not really a unified nation on a cultural level any more, so why not make it official?

This assumes a peaceful dissolution, of course. A civil war (or a severe economic collapse leading to fragmentation) woudl be horrific.

[randysoames]

27. I agree

but what is interesting is the lack of reflection, thoughtfulness of politically involved people online. They just seem to adopt the stance of the establishment on everything and seem incapable of discussion on this sort of topic, with few exceptions.

[johnd83]

35. I just answered your damn question

Most people don't bother answering because the question is moot.

[kentuck]

36. Most people here think they are nuts.

It's been discussed many times before, especially when Gov. Rick Perry broached the subject. I really don't think you have been here long enough to declare there is no reflection or thoughtfulness? There are a lot of topic areas on DU but bring that shit in here and somebody will shove it out the door. There is not the time or patience for such talk.

[randysoames]

28. what about control over the govt by citizens?

if the federal union went kaput, what would the effects be on the states with respect to control of the state govts as compared to the fed govt? Would the citizens of each state have more control of their newly independent state govts than they did over the fed govt?

Good or bad?

[kentuck]

33. Would all federal road projects be automatically stopped?

And how would the states react to that? Would they take it to the Supreme Court?

[zappaman]

3. Not just Repubicans

Plenty here keep talking about how America is in decline and a fading empire and already a dictablanda or fascist/stasi state.
I think people who are unhappy, regardless of political affiliation, want America to go down so everyone else can be as miserable as they are.

That is my theory and it is mine.

[kentuck]

11. Believing America is in decline does not mean they have no faith in government, in my opinion...

They simply think the present government is failing us or has already failed and that we need a different government. I hope they still believe in the principle of government? I don't think the Republicans believe in any government? They say "smaller government" but they say they want "to drown it in a bathtub"... But, good point.

[AgingAmerican]

5. It's their stated goal

They are not patriotic, they are nationalists. Nationalism is rooted in xenophobia and arrogance. Patriotism is rooted in cultural pride and attachment. There is a big difference between the two.

[Dwayne Hicks]

10. Well said!

n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

30. Absolutely! nt

[blueknight]

7. repubs

have been that way since carter was pres. they would much rather see the country fail, then a democrat president suceed

[kentuck]

14. There is no doubt about that...

In my time, they hated Harry Truman, not because he dropped the bomb, but that he showed the world that it was the Democrats that were strong on defense. That's why they wanted a General for President and we got Dwight D. Eisenhower. Even though a Republican, he refused to bend to their distorted views.

Then that damn Kennedy came along and they hated him and his arrogant brother, Bobby. Nixon was supposed to be President, not that damn John F Kennedy.

But after the assassination of the beloved Democratic President and after LBJ served out his elected full term, then they put Nixon up front again. By God, they wanted him for their President. He may have been a crook, but by God, he was their crook.

Then we got Watergate, Spiro Agnew, Gerald Ford, the retreat from Saigon, and then, the 1976 elections. Maybe it was time for a little honesty? They put Jimmy Carter into the office for four years until they could get their favorite actor, Ronald Reagan, back onto the rightful throne.

With the CIA, George HW Bush, and dreams of Richard Nixon, they stayed in power until 1992, until Bill Clinton, a conservative DLC Governor from Arkansas, won the office by triangulating the issues.

After blowjobs, blue dresses, and impeachment, they are finally able to get their successor to King Ronald, George W Bush, into the White House. They had to steal it but what the hell, they got it.

Then surprise! In a backlash of stomach-churning resentment, America elected its first black President. So we know what they think about him and we know what they think about our government. And there you have it.

[Boomerproud]

19. and there you have it.

Excellent summation of how we got to this critical point. I don't think we're on the edge of the cliff-I think we've already been pushed off.

[roamer65]

12. They want it to fail...

...so they can try to form the fascist state they hold so dear. FDR knew exactly what they were up to back in 1940.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. I will K&R this

[kestrel91316]

16. Now see here, you just gotta unnerstand that this "social contract" thing is just more

eeeevil commiesoshalizm. Jesus said, "Every man for himself!!" It's all right there in teh bible.

[kentuck]

18. Well...if it's in the Bible..

Then I can't argue with that...

[n2doc]

17. Of course, it would be a 'just punishment' for electing a N......., Twice!

I do truly believe that the t-baggers and hard core types fantasize about the fall of america (and Beck, et al, write about it incessantly). They think that somehow only the 'liberals' and 'minorities' would be punished, while they, the rightful heirs to the American Dream, would ascend to their rightful place as masters of their domains. All those liberal ideas like social security, medicare, food stamps, etc., etc., would be washed away in a righteous bankruptcy, just like the good lord masters Koch et al. say.

It is a lot like waiting for the Rapture, and it seems like there is a lot of overlap between the two groups.

[Shrike47]

23. Yes, they would. See, Rush Limbaugh 'I hope he fails.'

He'd rather the country failed than a Liberal succeed.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

29. I agree completely

I just don't understand why they're like this.

[sigmasix]

31. myopia of morons

The union cannot dissolve peacefully. Once a state is in, they are in forever. The notion that a piece-meal, peaceful break-up of America is possible is not entertained by intelligent people. There is no reason to believe it is impossible for the united states to continue to be successful with all 50 states. The damage done to our economy and society was done by right wing extremists disguised as reasonable conservatives. The right wing broke a lot of the best features of America. It is most cowardly to suggest that we cannot fix what has been broken. America has the capability to be the best there is if we can rid ourselves of our internal enemies instead of drowning in a sea of our own stupidity and fear, manufactured by the criminally wealthy and espoused by the teabagger faction.

[kentuck]

34. They are delusional.

They don't want to lose the benefits of being one of the United States of America. They are mostly full of shit and gunpowder. They become delusional when they start playing with their guns. They get their conceal carry permits because it is like a tranquilizer for their paranoia. I never mentioned dissolvement of the union? I never mentioned a "peaceful break-up of America"? I guess it was assumed by some? It never crossed my mind.

[HardTimes99]

39. I share your disgust with the Republicans. But what does it mean for our

country to 'go under'? From where I sit, this country has already gone under. Process began on 12/12/2000 and was completed on 3/20/2003. Everything since has just been a sad, mournful coda.