As Republicans Make Millions Suffer, the Left’s Ideologues Obsess Over Edward Snowden

[flamingdem]

from politicsusa.com

-- snip

According to the Census Bureau, roughly half the population in America is at or near poverty; including nearly a quarter of America’s children. Senior citizens are losing critical food and housing assistance, and tens of millions of the working-poor barely survive from paycheck to paycheck if they are fortunate enough to find two or three part-time minimum wage jobs. In Republican-controlled states, women’s reproductive rights are being eliminated to satisfy a fanatical cult driven by a bastardized form of Christianity, and minorities are losing their right to vote as fast as Republicans can move voter suppression bills through state legislatures. Republicans in the House of Representatives eliminated funding for the SNAP program (food stamps) for over 47-million Americans (mostly children and seniors), and refuse to reapportion sequestration cuts that decimated Meals on Wheels, Head Start, HUD housing assistance, and public education; all the while they are unfazed their handiwork is slated to kill between 1.6 and 3 million jobs. With all the devastation Americans are suffering at the hands of Republicans in Congress and state legislatures, one might think the left would coalesce and launch a do-or-die campaign to stop the Republican onslaught before they eviscerate a majority of the population, but instead there are ideologues who focusing on one man who violated his national security clearance, and others are entranced over a disgraced ex-congressman’s admission he sent inappropriate pictures over the Internet.

It is unclear why a phalanx of so-called civil libertarians invests more time, energy, and attention to the plight of an NSA subcontractor who admitted stealing government property (data) while their fellow citizens are in serious distress. Likely it is due to the machinations of an expatriate journalist living in South America who does not have firsthand knowledge of the devastation Republicans are wreaking on Americans, and probably because he has no interest in helping stem the conservatives’ assault on the people. At some level one can appreciate the devotion and concern so many on the left have for one man’s self-imposed confinement to a Russian airport, but while they are wringing their hands and fretting over one man’s predicament, their neighbors, family members, and workmates are suffering the effects of Republican assaults.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/07/28/republicans-millions-suffer-ideologues-left-obsess-edward-snowden.html

[COLGATE4]

1. K&R

[BumRushDaShow]

2. NAILS IT!

The Russian soap opera allows them to completely ignore the purposeful Congressional blockade against repealing the Patriot Act and getting the economy back on track. They are on course to helping the GOP default the government this September.

[flamingdem]

6. Yes, and they won't take responsibility for it

or their slurs against other DUers. I was just essentially called an anti-semite for using the term shyster to describe Greenwald. I don't think civil libertarians, libertarians are too concerned about Republican machinations. Otherwise their vision would be a bit more acute.

[Mojorabbit]

175. I think most of us can handle more than one thing at a time. nt

[reusrename]

183. Step, chew, step, chew, step, chew, chew... Agghghh

[kentuck]

48. I'm not sure where you are coming from?

Do you not want the Patriot Act repealed? Isn't that what the Congress was trying to do but fell just short? Wasn't that because of the information that came out because of Snowden? Please explain?

[pasto76]

51. because people _do not care_ about the patriot act if they cant pay their bills

people _do not care_ about most things, if they dont have a job, and can not pay the bills. You think the disappearing middle class cares more about not going into bankruptcy, or whether the NSA is reading their emails?

[kentuck]

62. Do we have to choose one or the other??

Can't we be concerned about both or all of them? Are we such simpletons that we can only address one issue at a time?

[Rex]

65. I guess some people cannot multitask and for those of us that do

we are to be hated and shunned by those that cannot. I've also noticed those same individuals (single issue) are almost total binary thinkers as well. In a sense, you are wasting a lot of time trying to communicate with them.

You make perfect sense, to someone actually trying to pay attention.

[BumRushDaShow]

66. EVERY concern needs to be addressed to CONGRESS

Congress is supposed to represent "the people". And DUers have made a choice to completely ignore Congress and focus on the wrong branch.

[flamingdem]

79. yes, exactly!! nt

[Andy823]

120. +1000 nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. And why do you suppose that is occurring? n/t

[Hekate]

171. My opinion: It's just so much easier to blame Obama for everything. Plus...

... there appears to be a serious lack of understanding about how the branches of the government work.

[dlwickham]

154. +1

[LondonReign2]

211. Of course, Obama supports both the Patriot Act and the NSA spying

So maybe the focus isn't so mistaken

[Skittles]

179. WTF

are you suggesting people cannot be concerned about more than one issue? How STUPID is that?

[reusrename]

184. There isn't any connection here?

I don't understand how folks don't see the connection between the revolving door lobbyists, the criminal banksters, the NSA spying, the state-sponsored propaganda, privatization of the security state, together with the demise of the middle class and the theft of millions of homes and pensions.

It just astounds me that folks don't recognize how fascism is a holistic problem.

[RC]

253. +10

[BumRushDaShow]

63. Read the post again

Much of this hang-wringing over Snowden can be better used to MAKE Congress repeal the Patriot Act. The media whoring games that have produced the "Where in the World is Edward Snowden" show and Obama bash-fest while completely ignoring Congress, shows that the Greenwald reality TV distraction works.

Congress has tried 40 times to repeal Obamacare and only recently had an amendment go as far as it did that didn't even repeal the Patriot Act, but attempted to scale it back, which failed.
.
Here's the guy who should be asked to REPEAL the Patriot Act since he brags about being about "how many laws <he> repeals". MAKE them bring a full repeal to the floor. And keep making them vote on it.

MAKE them amend "Buck Stops Here" Harry Truman's National Security Act. And keep at it with the same vigor that is used against the Executive Branch.



Pick up the phone and ask the Speaker of the House when he will move Patriot Act and NSA repeal bills. Here's the number -

http://www.speaker.gov/contact

Office of the Speaker H-232
The Capitol Washington, DC 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone] - See more at: http://www.speaker.gov/contact#sthash.foUMlVRy.dpuf

[kentuck]

71. There would not have had a vote on "scaling back" the Patriot Act if not for Snowden.

So, I fail to see your point on that?

Also, since Repubs control the House and have blocked everything and listen to no one except Tea baggers, it probably makes more sense to cajole or criticize those branches we do control into action, I would think?

[BumRushDaShow]

91. And why is that?

What is it that all of sudden keeps people from demanding such from their own representatives and they are directed to bullseye the President out of ignorance of how the tricameral government works? Doing that focuses useless attention to the Executive, which is NOT where laws are changed.

Meanwhile, DU reinforces this stupidity by declaring that Congress doesn't exist and the Executive Branch can unilaterally fly faster than a speeding bullet and leap tall buildings in a single bound.

This has nothing to do with "Snowden". You give him too much credit. For decades BEFORE he was born, people had to deal with the J. Edgar Hoovers of the U.S... And no it doesn't "make more sense" to criticize those branches "we do control", because when you do that, you are wasting energy that is better spent organizing voters to take back their states and remove the ilk from office at ALL levels of government.

[kentuck]

126. "This has nothing to do with "Snowden". You give him too much credit"

Are you saying Congress would have had a vote on the Patriot Act if Snowden had not blown the whistle and given the information to the Guardian and the Washington Post thru Glenn Greenwald?

The reason some criticize or praise the White House and the Senate is to get them to move on some issue or other. They do very little on their own volition unless they are pushed into action. If you have a big donation to give them, that will also push them into action. The only other way to push them to action is to constantly let them know that their jobs are temporary and we can take them away any time we please. That's the way it is.

[LondonReign2]

212. So you're saying Obama wants the Patriot Act repealed and

the NSA's powers curtailed?

[BumRushDaShow]

217. I expect he does

but wants to have it done in a way that shuts down the RW talking points and the RW lunatics who for 30 years, have tarred and feathered liberals with the "weak" and "soft" bullshit line. The U.S. unfortunately is a Rambo macho country and it will take a long time to get rid of that national "cowboy" persona whether we like it or not.

And in all practical sense (NOT in the fantasy world of ideology), one can -

1.) Make the people DEMAND that their representatives do as they say - REPEAL (Legislative)
2.) Make the people and/or opposition take it to the courts (eventually the Supreme Court) to declare it unconstitutional (Judicial)

I.e., you engage the other branches of the tricameral government and push people to stop giving them a pass.

There is more power in the masses demanding change versus the individual. And the masses need to be dragged from in front of the damn TV to take action. Too many around here insist that the President's job is to micromanage every infinitesimal function of a nation of 300,000,000 while the demanders sit back on their laurels and hurl potshots.

Talk show host Joe Madison daily plays part of a sermon given by Aretha Franklin's father called "The Eagle Stirs the Nest". And to paraphrase, he described how eagles care for their young in a soft comfortable nest while they are developing but once it's time for them to fledge, the nest is "stirred" making it uncomfortable (twiggy and spiny) for the youngsters to remain there any longer, and they finally leave the nest to fly off on their own. And so sometimes that nest that is the American entertainment complex needs to be stirred to get people up and out and engaged.

[LondonReign2]

218. Can you point me to some of his recent statements

where he says he'd like the Patriot Act repealed and the NSA's powers curtailed? Seems to me he's been pretty clear in defending the NSA.

[BumRushDaShow]

226. Here is the first step at getting it done

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/politics/cyberrights-watchdog

In fact he was finally able to get his 2010 nominated appointees for the PCLOB CONFIRMED by the Senate.

And if this group is ever able to get some teeth, it would mean not just protecting citizens from the government, but from the corporatocracy that is collecting the data.

But I expect this is not enough because that is not what many want to hear. I.e., it's easier to stomp your feet and demand "instant" and not have the patience to slog through a process to make a change as "permanent" as can be done vs "temporary" until the next President comes in, where you start all over.

I guess outrage really is a racket.

[LondonReign2]

238. So even though Obama reauthorized the Patriot Act

he is really against it? And even though Obama has publicly strongly backed the NSA, going so far as to lobby against the recent amendment trying to curb its power, he is secretly for reigning in the NSA?

So all his recent statements and actions are just smokescreens, and he really believes the opposite? He's just been telling little white lies in public but behind the scenes he is trying to repeal the Patriot Act and curb the NSA?

And expecting him to do either of these things in his first five years-- you know, demanding "instant" action-- is just unrealistic?

This is what you've convinced yourself of? That Obama is secretly doing the exact opposite of what he says in public? And you really hope to convince others of this as well?

[Mojorabbit]

176. We almost had a bill pass that put some curbs on NSA

but our President lobbied AGAINST it. It is not only congress.

[BumRushDaShow]

221. Did the bill (amendment) go far enough?

Because if it didn't, DU would be complaining that it was "watered down" (which is actually what many around here said about it anyway) and the bitching and complaining would continue.

He is trying to force alot of things to the Supreme Court to have them declared unconstitutional. Otherwise the people must force Congress to rewrite or repeal. Make them do their jobs.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

3. The Left's Teabaggers

[HangOnKids]

74. Are you going to delete this post too?

The entire thread you deleted a few days ago was priceless!

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

113. That thread attracted too many nutjobs, some of which

felt the need to harass me via PM. Glad you found it entertaining.

[Union Scribe]

178. Argyle. Wool. It's anyone's guess. nt

[Puglover]

220. Earlg

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305721

[Mojorabbit]

228. +1000 nt

[Cha]

230. Yep, all they care about is what propaganda greenwald is telling them next..

Ready to regurgiatate it "no difference between Dems and repubs".. yeah, sure greenthing. And, spreading that shit around the internet.

"PBO does nothing for the poor" Bullshit.

[Maximumnegro]

255. Hear hear.nt

[msongs]

4. so true although I don't think obama is really a leftist ideologue nt

[JaneyVee]

5. Pretty much how I feel. Yes, NSA revelations are a slippery slope, but

While DU is obsessing over the what ifs, the Republican Party has launched a full scale assault on every demographic in our country. From numerous civil liberties attacks, to numerous civil rights attacks, to numerous human rights attacks. Forgive us for reserving our obsessive outrage on the NSA subject for the actual horrors being inundated on us by the rightwing.

[DontTreadOnMe]

252. I agree

The entire Snowden affair has been a huge distraction and there are people here on DU that have made it their life long main issue.

[Vietnameravet]

7. Well I have been reading about all the horrible things that Obama supposedly does

all posted right here on DU day after day..

His administration is conducting a terrorist campaign, our constitution is being violated, he and his administration are liars.,and he is conducting a smear campaign against a good and noble man whose only crime was blowing the whistle on this administrations lawlessness which will probably torture and kill him if he returns..

....and then in 2014 we are expecting people to vote for more Democrats to support the Obama agenda?!!???

Ya sure! Remember how Democrats were talking about the extinct Republican dinosaurs after Obama's first election? Remember what happened two years later? In 2014 and maybe in 2016 Democrats will again be wondering, "What happened?"

Go ahead...some of you posters,,, and attack Obama and end all spying...and get your ass handed to you in the next election, after another terrorist attack, as Republicans then pivot and call you "soft on terrorism"

[flamingdem]

10. It's crazy that people are willing to throw it all away again

and they'll be here to blame Obama as usual.

I don't think most of them are fake, but I kind of wish they were! It would be less pathetic.

[kentuck]

49. Damn!

That hurt!

[Skittles]

150. you'll never get throught to the swooners, mother earth

but us thinking folk hear you loud and clear

[Fumesucker]

8. Privacy and choice go hand in hand

Roe v Wade was decided largely on privacy issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade#Right_to_privacy

[Raine1967]

90. I wish more people on this thread paid attention to your simple post.

I know it's not really popular around these parts lately, but it pisses me off that Snowden is a privacy hero and people ignore this very important fact. I wrote about it June, 14, 2013.
I'm gonna try to edit it to make it more relevant. My basic points stands.

-----------------------------------
There has been a lot of talk about the fourth amendment the past few months with the 'revelation' that the NSA has been monitoring everyone's communications in the past, present and future of the world*.

Here is the text of the Fourth amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Quite often when discussing this particular amendment, it's with regard to government invasion of privacy and the idea that a search warrant is needed by the court. There are exceptions to that. in fact - many exceptions . As with all amendments, and the United States Constitution as a whole, the interpretation is never as simple as the written word. This is why we have a Judicial branch, headed by the Supreme Court as one of the three branches of our government.

It was that court, in 1973, that ruled one landmark case that forever changed the lives of women. It was called Roe. V. Wade.

That decision was invalidated by the Supreme court with a vote of 7-2. The decision was arrived upon by asserting "the First, Third, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments also protect a right to privacy."

Women have been fighting for OUR right against unreasonable searches -- the likes of a totally medically unnecessary medical procedure that is being employed to humiliate women seeking out a MEDICAL procedure. Roe. V. Wade did not mandate morality. In affect it stated: The decision held that the state could not prohibit abortion in the first trimester of pregnancy; in the second trimester, states could issue regulations "that are reasonably related to maternal health"; and in the final trimester, once the fetus is viable beyond the womb, the state could regulate or even prohibit abortion except in cases "where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother." This should NOT be up for debate.

So can someone tell me why the NSA story is so much more important than my right to a medical procedure? Why is your right to have phone sex* (and not get caught) more important than my right to end an unwanted pregnancy? Why is this more important than Doctors' rights to practice medicine as they see fit and in accordance with the degree they received? NARAL Virginia, upon Governor Bob McDonnell signing Virginia UltraSound abortion law put out a statement calling the law "an unprecedented invasion of privacy and government intrusion into the doctors' offices and living rooms of Virginia women."

Caring about the right to privacy should be more than who is looking at your emails, it should include how government literally is legislating what they think should go into your *HooHaw*-- just because you don't have one, you certainly know someone who does.

I ask why is my body and the rights of women so much less of a priority in this nation? Women are being attacked far more virulently in this nation than the NSA is going after Americans -- and that is still up for debate to be really honest. People upset about this NSA story are not having their words erased or taken away. Women are having their right to privacy taken away EVERY DAY through legislation. You'll have to pardon me for not placing the same amount of outrage on this NSA story that I have had over the loss of the rights women have gained to make their own personal choices.

Are we really supporting some previously anonymous person who may very well have State Secrets hiding in China and ignoring something that is directly affecting women everyday? Sometimes I think that we pick and choose the Constitution to fit our argument. I'm sure I'm not innocent in that accusation but it is worth saying that nothing is ever as simple as it seems. Personally I wish this much energy was spent on protecting ACTUAL and real civil rights violations in this nation. What happened to the right of women to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches? Are people really more upset about META-data collection than government mandating that women are forced to have a trans-vaginal ultrasound with something that looks like this?

----------

[ProSense]

9. Yup

"As Republicans Make Millions Suffer, the Left’s Ideologues Obsess Over Edward Snowden"

...the goal is to convince that their version of civil liberties hyperbole is the most important thing in our lives. Doesn't matter that most of what they do is fearmongering hype. The fact that so many have bought into this, and others are using it to fan their own political fortunes doesn't matter.

Look at all the problems facing this country, attacks on minority and women's rights, a stagnant economy, the most vulnerable Americans (poor, disabled, seniors) becoming more vulnerable, the middle class being decimated, and yet the NSA issue becomes the top priority across the political spectrum. This is the issue that demands coalition. They can lump Pelosi in with Bachmann, and then hype teabaggers. The issue is the most important thing in our lives.

Think about it, Congress could have acted on this at any time. These are programs that have been exposed, including the worst abuses by Bush, debated and in the focus of civil liberties organizations for more than a decade. There have been changes, and concern these changes haven't gone far enough. The loopholes have been discussed. As recently as December 2012, Wyden and Udall raised there concerns.

No one has the courage to stand up and call this bullshit. The issue is important, but the hyperbole, kabuki theater (including Snowden's Russian adventure) and misinformation are bullshit.

[Downtown Hound]

215. If Snowden's Russian adventure isn't important

Then why the fuck do you spend every hour of every day posting on it?

[ProSense]

216. Because I feel like it. OK? n/t

[Downtown Hound]

231. Oh, but it's not important. LOL.

[bvar22]

239. Some people have ZERO sense of Irony or Hypocrisy.

They have become an unfunny parody of themselves.

[Progressive dog]

11. Pretty close to how I feel about

the Snowden-Greenwald worship by the Libertarian Left (if there is such a thing).

[Jamaal510]

166. According to the Political Compass,

there is supposedly such a thing as a left-libertarian. But I'm a little skeptical about that myself.

[kentuck]

12. Are they obsessing over Snowden or are they obsessing over the Republican policies...?

that Snowden exposed and that were continued from the criminal Bush Administration? I think there is more to the story than you are telling.

[flamingdem]

14. Let's not personalize it, look at the information and think

about what matters and where we really are in the process.

That can't be ignored for a problem that will be addressed as it was by a vote last week. That issue is an excuse to not do the work against Republicans and direct ire at Obama rather than supporting him.

--snip

What is happening on the left is a repeat of the events that allowed teabaggers to sweep into power in the House and states in the 2010 midterm elections, and despite the damage voter apathy then is wreaking on the people now, the same contingent of disaffected liberals is drawing attention away from the only solution to stave off more Republican devastation on Americans in distress. Instead of focusing on one man’s self-imposed legal problems, the left should be educating Americans about why they are in distress and help prepare them to participate in the next election. It is true Republicans in former Confederate and ALEC-controlled states are passing voter suppression laws, but it highlights the need to start mobilizing Americans who are suffering the effects of the Republican victory in the 2010 midterm elections to prevent more damage if the GOP prevails in the next election. There is absolutely nothing ideological civil libertarians can do to help their hero who banished himself to a Russian airport now or in the future, but they can help their fellow Americans who are real people in distress. It is a mystery why they need an idealized hero, but they found one and it is distracting them from the plight of half the population.

[kentuck]

26. Sorry. I don't buy it.

That litany of problems that the Republicans created happened before anyone had ever heard of Edward Snowden. It's just another excuse not to do anything.

[A Simple Game]

85. You speak of the left as if we are a bad thing for this country. I get a very strong impression

that you must consider yourself on the right, otherwise why would you go out of your way to bash the left? Can I assume when you say "left" you really mean liberal? Why would a good Democrat push the Republican meme that liberal=bad? Why do you carry their water in bashing liberals? That is what you are doing even if you don't realize it.

Do you think liberals are too stupid to carry more than one thought at the same time? I can assure you that I am capable of commenting on Snowden and President Obama and still have opinions about other things. I think about Social Security often and whether it will be thrown over the next fiscal cliff. I also think about most everything being discussed on DU in the main discussion groups.

I also think that the right of the Democratic party must be trying to preemptively blame the 2014 elections on the liberals, how could I possibly interpret the following otherwise?

the left should be educating Americans about why they are in distress and help prepare them to participate in the next election.

The left? Why not all Democrats and liberals? Don't we all want to shoulder the blame? And while I am asking questions, could you tell me how President Obama treats the Progressive caucus?

It appears to me by your actions with this OP, that you are the one that wants to aid the Republicans by causing dissension in the Democratic ranks.

[Bluenorthwest]

121. Excellent points...

nt

[kentuck]

131. Put another worm on the hook.

I think you caught one?

[onyourleft]

205. Thank you.

I, too, see all of these posts as preemptively trying to blame the upcoming elections on liberals. For some reason, they are trying to convince many that liberals cannot multitask. Most of us are well aware of the issues affecting society as a whole today and pay close attention to other topics besides where Mr. Snowden is currently residing.

[Maximumnegro]

256. You can't multitask. If you could you wouldn't be expending ALL

this fricking energy on Snowden/NSA/Greenwald. That's the point. The new thing now to prove multitasking is to tie everything to NSA/Snowden blah blah. NSA and Trayvon. NSA and vaginas. NSA and voting rights.

Thanks god most of America knows there's more serious shit to worry about like just trying to stay alive with no jobs, healthcare, and the possibility of being shot just for being a person of color.

Sorry if invasion of privacy and unauthorized surveillance has you in a huff. Some of us have been dealing with it, well, for a long time.

[onyourleft]

261. Yes, I understand there...

...are people who have been dealing with it for a very long time, which is a travesty. Why embark on more of the same at a higher level?

[dionysus]

13. nails it. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

15. ...and the center's ideologues obsess over the Left's ideologues.

Hey, Flaming Dem, shall we compare the number of Snowden/Greenwald-bashing threads you've posted in the last month to the number of threads you've posted relating to the economy?

Remove the mote from your own eye.

[flamingdem]

18. I've followed the story to examine how it may have been manufactured

to lead to the results we see with Greenwald taking advantage and Assange leading Snowden into an abyss that hurt the USA.

[Comrade Grumpy]

31. I looked at your active threads just now.

6 Snowden/Greenwald/NSA threads
2 Weinergate threads
2 Self-delete threads
1 Thread (this one) attacking Left ideologues (should probably be counted with the Snowden threads)
1 Thread about an MSNBC program on Detroit.

Who's obsessing?

[bahrbearian]

37. "Hey look over there, its Snowden" someone must be losing ground.

So now its "Hey look over there its the economy, thats what I meant"

[HangOnKids]

82. Bazinga!

There is this thing called projection.......

[AgingAmerican]

155. I pointed this hypocrisy down thread...

...and was accused by the OP of making 'personal attacks' and 'stalking'.

They are not very good at propagandizing. It's too obvious.

[Skittles]

180. I swear I thought it was a joke when I first read it

OMG THE HUMANITY

[Bragi]

16. Caring about surveillance causes poverty?

Right.

[SunSeeker]

56. No, but obsessing over Snowden does nothing to end poverty.

In fact, it plays into the hands of the Republicans. That is the point of the OP.

[AgingAmerican]

167. The OP obsesses about Snowden

So is the OP playing into the hands of Republicans also?

[SunSeeker]

188. So pointing out that DUers are obsessing over Snowden is obsessing over Snowden?

No, I don't think so.

[AgingAmerican]

193. The OP posts thread after thread after thread on the subject

So, yes, the OP is obsessing over Snowden!

[SunSeeker]

199. Really? Is he/she fantasizing about having mojitos on the beach with Snowden like some DUers??

Now THAT is obsession. Flamingdem pointing out that obsession is not itself an obsession; responding to GG and Snowden assertions is reporting the facts.

[AgingAmerican]

202. NO

The OP is just posting thread after thread after thread after thread on the subject

[Skittles]

181. RIDICULOUS

PRETEZEL LOGIC

[SunSeeker]

189. If you want pretzel logic, see post 167.

BTW, there appears to be something wrong with your caps lock.

[AgingAmerican]

203. And rank hypocracy

nt

[Bragi]

186. Is there an official list of things not to obsess over?

It would be helpful to the poor if there was a comprehensive list of obsessions that do nothing or little to help them right now.

I'll start: climate change!

Your turn...

[SunSeeker]

187. Actually, climate change would be a great thing to obsess over...

since it actually affects the poor and everyone else. But climate change threads sink like a rock around here. Go figure.

[Bragi]

208. Not quite so simple

State surveillance also "actually affects the poor and everyone else". In fact, when civil liberties erode, they usually end up disproportionately affecting people who lack the resources needed to legally defend themselves.

So I don't see why climate change should be okay to obsess over if you care about poverty, but state surveillance isn't?

[Luminous Animal]

194. So, it is the left that forces flamingdem to post dozens of anti-Snowden and Greenwald

OPs?

[SunSeeker]

195. No, seems to me flamingdem thinks for himself/herself. nt

[Luminous Animal]

198. The OP claims that the left is obsessing over Snowden. I'm not seeing that...

I am seeing post after post after post criticizing Snowden and Greenwald coming from centrists. Someone pointed out that one DUer alone posted 150 original OPs criticizing one or the other or both.

[SunSeeker]

200. Well those are the threads that get the most replies right now.

Seems everything else drops like a rock.

[Luminous Animal]

206. Yes. Like this Snowden-obsessed thread.

[rhett o rick]

17. What irony. Look around. THose obsessed here in DU with Snowden and put up post after post

including this post, are the "non-leftist" (not sure where they actually stand). Now go to a thread discussing almost any major issue like the TPP, the XL Pipeline, fracking, nuclear power, etc. and you wont find but maybe one "non-leftist" partaking in the discussion and most likely they are trying to make sure the President isnt getting any blame.

But if there is a thread bashing the left, bingo-bango the whole gang will be there with their signature emoticon

These non-leftist threads are divisive. Apparently aimed at splitting the party.

[flamingdem]

19. The people obsessed with Snowden usually claim they won't vote

or will vote third party next round.

Frankly I don't know why they bother with a site meant for Democrats.

[rhett o rick]

25. Democrats usually side with whistle-blowers and not the authoritarian state.

Why do some posters here try to disparage the left? What issues of the left do they not agree with?

[BumRushDaShow]

68. Why do posters here define the "left" by their own narrow purist criteria

where those who are "old fashioned" liberals and progressives are suddenly AuthoritarianCorporateTyrantApologistRWRepublicans™?



"Old-fashioned Liberals" are not single-issue ideologues out to denigrate and destroy anyone trying to address many of the other issues that affect people, particularly those dealing with the ALEC agenda being implemented in their states.

[flamingdem]

83. I resemble that remark!

I have years of working on progressive politics, only at DU do I get smeared as an authoritarian, anyone who knows me would see the humor in that characterization. I'm sure this is true with many who are being smeared here on a daily basis by those who probably don't even bother to vote.

[BumRushDaShow]

84. Awwww

[rhett o rick]

123. If you are so "progressive" why dont I ever see you posting in threads that pertain to

issues?

Here's one on the Patriot Act: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023220667

Here's one on Glass-Steagall: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023226323

Here's one on FISA: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262702


What's remarkable is that the "Group" that disparages the left, I will call them the "non-left" are rarely seen in these types of posts. I wonder why. But start a thread about Greenwald or Snowden and they are all over the place. Or if someone dares to insinuate that the car crash of Michael Hastings looks suspicious, they are following all over themselves explaining what a drug and alcohol user Mr. Hastings was and therefore it couldnt have been Pres Obama's fault.

[BumRushDaShow]

137. Do a search

on my posts BEFORE these were the subjects du jour - and that includes going back to DU2.

But ad hominems is alot easier.

[rhett o rick]

162. So tell us what issues you are interested in, besides Snowden and any other whistle-blower that

dares challenge the authoritarian status quo. Do you think FISA should be abandoned? How about the Patriot Act?

[BumRushDaShow]

201. You might not like it

but since you refused to search -

I want the disgrace that was the 300 page Gramm-Leach-Bliley completely repealed
I want FISA (which was created by Jimmy Carter) gone
I want the NSA (which was created by Harry Truman) replaced
I want the Patriot Act repealed
I want No Child Left Behind repealed
I want the VRA restored COMPLETELY
I want DOMA gone
I want revenue-sharing restored to the cities
I want A-76 repealed and/or rewritten.
I want more bases closed and bring those soldiers back to bolster the National Guard for disaster duty
I want people to take back their states from the teabaggers
I really want the top tax rate to go back to 90% like it was under Eisenhower (to pay for the 2 wars that had just ended in the '40s & 50s) but no Congress today is going to do that

I don't salivate over finding opportunities to vomit forth a flurry of hyperbolic adjectives at other posters in order to falsely define and dismiss those who don't agree with a particular position. It's ironic that the term "authoritarian" has been thrown around here more against Democrats than against anything associated with the GOP. All one needs to do is look at how many ex-pats are around to tell you where the U.S. stands compared to what is being imagined.

[rhett o rick]

214. Sorry, somehow you stepped between me and flamingdem. My post 123 was to him/her.

I appreciate you priorities. Sorry for the confusion.

[rhett o rick]

106. "Why do posters here define the "left" by their own narrow purist criteria"

That's a great question. One reason, of course is projection. Another reason is that they are looking to blame. The reason Bush won in 2000 wasnt their fault it was someone else's fault. Must have been the left somehow. They are authoritarians and have been raised to bow down to the wishes of a Big Daddy figure. So when our government gives us Obama Care in lieu of single payer, they get on their knees and thank the Big Daddy government and get irate with the damn liberals that dare ask for more.

[BumRushDaShow]

136. Not sure where you drifted off to in that rambling response. nt

[RC]

257. "Why do some posters here try to disparage the left?"

Because they are Right of Center. They are more Center Right Republicans.

The political Center in this country has become distorted. When "Liberals" want to use Social Security to 'fix the debt'. When it is OK to bail out banks and Wall Street, but not Main Street. When people such as Manning and Snowden expose the rotting flesh of this country's secret government and get vilified for it. When lowering taxes, to the point of having to shred the social safety net is supposed to help the jobs situation. Yeah, those are Republicans masquerading as Democrats.

[rhett o rick]

258. I agree. We must clean up the Democratic Party before we can proceed. nm

[Katashi_itto]

153. No, they simply realize that the anti-Snowden crowd are no different from the bush apologists.

What it really comes down to, it's ok when our party rips up our rights, it bad when the repukes do it.

Watching our rights get "death by a thousand paper cuts" by our party or "get shot in the head" by repukes.

Voting is a moot point. Either way fast or slow the results will be the same.

Personally I would prefer fast. At least people might wake up to whats happened.

[treestar]

22. Pro Snowden people put up plenty of Snowden threads. nt

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

24. I don't know how many times I've seen the same Greenwald article posted.

Over and over and over again.

Jesus Christ, I know the Greenwald worshipers aren't all there, but surely they can rub two IQ points together long enough to use the fucking search feature.

[rhett o rick]

27. Why dont you post in threads that actually discuss issues?

Here's one. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3359669

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

30. I will if you post a link to one.

[rhett o rick]

32. Did Sid give you permission to use is ridicule emoticon? nm

[Segami]

46. LOL!

[treestar]

40. The title isn't very promising

Chomsky praises Snowden? That's about how great Snowden is.

[rhett o rick]

110. And authoritarians hate Chomsky. He dares to speak truth to Big Daddy power. nm

[Puglover]

219. Apparently someone didn't think much of his/it's posting habits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305721

[rhett o rick]

222. Saves me from putting him on ignore. What happened? Do you know? nm

[Puglover]

223. God, it was obvious.

Close to 800 posts in less then 3 weeks? He was a really lousy zombie.

Of course our resident zombie/sock puppet hunter thought he was fabulous.

[rhett o rick]

224. I thought so but then I think others here are corporatist trolls. nm

[Marr]

55. +1

[treestar]

20. K&R

Get the Republicans out of the House! That is the number one priority.

[calimary]

60. AND out of the State Houses. Both governors' mansions AND the state legislatures

AS WELL AS the House of Reps.

That is not just the number-one priority. That is the ONLY priority.

[flamingdem]

23. I don't think Obama is on a never ending vacation

He needs the support of the base to overcome Republican obstructionism, instead we see the muddling of the issues and finger pointing at him.

[rhett o rick]

29. He supports the Patriot Act. You cant blame the Republicans for that. nm

[leftstreet]

94. +1

[Deep13]

28. the 1st half of that headline is right...

...but it is the scapping of the 4th Amendment that we are worried about.

[99Forever]

34. I hereby nominate this thread.....

... for the Most Hypocritical POS Thread of the Month award.

Go Team Blue!

[Marr]

58. Seconded. /nt

[tblue]

73. Hear here!

[BenzoDia]

38. It's because many people only care about policies that they think affect them.

[last1standing]

39. Would you say it's obsessive to post several anti-Snowden threads every day?

I would. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and back off for the good of the country. Maybe if you didn't post thread after thread filled with smears and misdirection (like this very thread), we could all spend more time focusing on how to battle the republicans.

But I'm sure your advice only goes one way. If only we would let you post your multitude of hate filled screeds without comment then everything would be so much better.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

41. What is "near the poverty line"? median household income is ~43K

100% poverty level or household poverty level for family of 4 is $23.5K. I agree poverty is a huge and growing problem in the US, but I think you're overstating the case a bit.

[burnodo]

42. The left's ideologues ARE obsessing over Snowden

you and your friends

[HiPointDem]

43. garbage talking point of the day.

[Rex]

47. All they know how to do is bash the left

then again what else would you expect from the moderate-right wing of the party? Sometimes I wonder why they even post here.

[Broward]

86. They've hijacked the Party and dragging everything

further and further to the right.

[AgingAmerican]

109. Fortunately

It is a very tiny group who engage in this nonsense.

[Jamaal510]

169. Is there no room for a gray area?

A person can be part of the Left and still agree that this whole situation is nothing but hyperbole and a diversion from issues that actually have a direct effect on average Americans, like voting rights and how the GOP is dismantling the postal service. Even Ed Shultz and Al Franken both essentially said that Snowden is full of shit and that all of this is overblown.

[Rex]

247. Ed and Al both know what it is like trying to reason

with the right-moderate wing of the party. It has nothing to do with Snowden or the NSA or the Left. They agree with the GOP on a few things. Strange but they are like near libertarians so they don't really have a gray area. Thankfully we have reformed a lot of conservative dems. Ed was one and Al can smell one a mile away.

[Rex]

44. I see someone is obsessing over Snowden, how funny is that?

It is always amusing to watch those that hate someone/something the most, protest is until they are obviously obsessed or feel compelled to discuss said object of their hatred 100 times a day. I personally think it is a show of how desperate they are to make sure we all stick with the status quo.

Of course I expect nothing from the moderate-right, but piss and vinegar. That is all they got.

[totodeinhere]

45. The erosion of our civil liberties as disclosed by Snowden is not mutually exclusive.

The numerous problems that you list are important and need to be addressed. But our 4th Amendment rights should not take a back seat to other issues. Don't you understand that NSA spying is being used by the 1% who control this country to keep us under their thumbs? The issues that you list and NSA spying are intertwined and we ignore either at our peril.

[kentuck]

52. Those numerous problems listed were there before Snowden...

and nothing was done about them and little was expected to be done about them in the future. Snowden is nothing but an excuse for incompetence.

[totodeinhere]

99. Snowden is not an excuse for anything. Quite the contrary, there is no excuse for ignoring NSA

abuses just like there is no excuse for ignoring the list of other issues mentioned by the OP.

[cstanleytech]

59. "NSA spying is being used by the 1% who control this country to keep us under their thumbs?"

Isnt that just a wee bit ?
Granted I dont trust the NSA myself but still..................

[tblue]

70. Dear totodeinhere,

I don't know why people think they can make people not care about things they care about. It's the same old party vs principles argument. But, a party is only as valuable as the principles it stands for. That's my opinion. I really don't have a need to beat people over the head with it.

[mick063]

50. I can multi task

Trust me on this.

[SidDithers]

53. DU rec...

for the bleating from the "Obama is teh eeeevil" crowd.

Sid

[allinthegame]

54. Sorry

too busy writing my Congressman/Senators/White House about all of the above issues (plus the disgraceful Farm Bill)
to even contemplate Snowden/Greenwald.....let them GO

[randome]

57. The state of 'protest' in America today is an embarrassment.

Defending to the death our precious metadata rights! While the Sequester lingers on and on like a Moore, Oklahoma tornado that won't go away.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[DeSwiss]

61. The ol' choosing the ''lesser of two evils'' pitch again?

Thanks, but I'm holding out for NO EVILS.

- Have a nice day!

[kelliekat44]

64. I don't think it's the lessor of two evils. I think it's the issues of survival vs surveillance. n

[DeSwiss]

93. You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. n/t

[tblue]

67. The obsession is to hate and blame him.

I don't even think about the man but I do fear the degradation of our civil liberties. If you're not worried about that, it makes no difference to me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. A simple solution to your dilemma. Call off the dogs and give Snowden his passport.

BTW, Snowden isn't responsible for the woes you list. Check out the cost of the MIC and NSA for a remedy to those.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

72. How are Snowden or civil rights activists responsible for the GOP's crimes?

This article is shite.

[demosincebirth]

75. So true. Millions suffer while we obess over "owl shit."

[HardTimes99]

76. Democratic Socialist here: the surveillance state and suffering imposed upon the millions by

a bi-partisan phalanx are both assaults upon the working class. (FWIW, Snowden is also a member of that self-same working class, as is Greenwald.)

This is the worst kind of smearing, implying that those of us who criticize the surveillance state are incapable of simultaneously protesting the serious harm workers face in the post-industrial economy.

Democratic Socialists understand that an attack on one worker (like Snowden) is an attack on all workers, just as an attack on the social safety net attacks those same workers. This OP really does a dis-service to the reality of anyone legitimately on "the left."

I know nothing about the source to which you link, but I know I will be far more leery of anything coming from it in the future given this utter bullshit.

[kentuck]

78. Well said, HardTimes99,

[randome]

81. If we had evidence of the NSA's illegality or abuse, I would agree with you.

But we don't so I don't see that a 'surveillance state' exists except in Greenwald's excitable mind and Snowden's all-too-pliable mind.

If either of these 'geniuses' had evidence of illegality or abuse, I would have no problem putting the NSA on my list of things to complain about.

But they don't. All they have are vague claims and PowerPoint slides that sometimes directly refute their own allegations.

It is a waste of time and resources to go looking under the bed for monsters to fight when we have real ones in the street.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[HardTimes99]

152. If the words of Democratic Rep. Loretta Sanchez ("tip of the iceberg") have not

convinced you, nothing anyone says on this board will do so. (That's in addition to all the cooroborating testimony of Snowden's claims from various other quarters.)

I know you agree that COINTELPRO did exist and I'm not accusing you of denying its reality. But I would challenge you to go back and examine what leading members of the counterculture alleged about government surveillance in the 60s and what the government and mainstream said about such allegations at the time. No doubt, there were die-hard deniers who stayed resolute in their denial until the Church hearings proved that many of the claims of the counterculture were quite mild, compared to what the government had actually been doing.

[randome]

158. Still no evidence provided by S&G. And 'tip of the iceberg' is very vague.

A phrase uttered by a politician is evidence of nothing.

Let's see the evidence and let the chips fall where they may. No problem with that from my corner.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[LondonReign2]

213. No evidence except a court ruling, you mean?

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2013, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

You know, the one that said they were violating the 4th Amendment in fact and in spirit.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07-20/court-said-wiretap-violated-constitution-s-4th-amendment

[randome]

232. Sure, from the FISA court. You know, the one you don't trust.

Granted, secrecy precludes a good dose of trust. But courts pull back the reins of Law Enforcement every day. It's how the system works.

And a FISA court ruling has nothing to do with S&G.

Did S&G reveal anything that is illegal or abusive? The answer is No.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[marions ghost]

87. Applause for logic & truth

...thank you.

The anti-Snowdens act like these are two mutually exclusive topics.

[BumRushDaShow]

88. Greenwald a "member" of the "working class"

with degrees from GWU and NYU and having worked for one of the most profitable NY law firms in the world representing all manners of corporatocracy.

Yup. "Working class" alright, except certainly NOT the "class" of the average citizen.

[marions ghost]

95. It makes no sense to try to divide

people who are pulling together for the same ends. Some may make more money, some less, but all are working class compared to the upper echelons. Greenwald is not sitting on his haunches collecting his money like the 1% (or even the 10-20% of corporates).

Most of us are pigs at the end of the trough. Greenwald is not one of the bloated monster boars with lethal tusks slurping everything up at the head of the trough and letting very little trickle down. You can't argue that Greenwald's on the side of the corporates in this scenario.

[HardTimes99]

151. There's a reason why "1%" and 'parasite class" are synonyms. The

members of said parasite class do not produce anything, choosing instead to live off rent and dividends. Greenwald produces - he works - for a living and does not live off rents and dividends. Greenwald is hardly a parasite. I"ll grant you that Greenwald is hardly traditional proletariat, being part of the professional middle-class.

Ask yourselves this: are your economic interests closer to Greenwald's or to Lloyd Blankfein's? The answer (I think) will tell you a lot about Greenwald's class status. And if your answer is the latter (Blankfein's), then that in itself is worth noting, n'est-ce pas?

I notice you remain silent about Snowden. Does that mean you share my analysis that Snowden is working class?

[BumRushDaShow]

225. "Does that mean you share my analysis that Snowden is working class?"

Maybe if you are Mitt Romney who might consider anyone with an income (thanks to BAH) in the top 5% of the U.S. salary range, and then calls that "working class".

No I don't share your analysis.

[Arctic Dave]

77. Gee, maybe because they are somewhat intertwined.

Too complex for you?

[marions ghost]

89. Applause again for truth

These two broad topics are inter-connected.

Yet it seems some people want to pretend they are NOT. Maybe because both abuses are so egregious it would cause heads to explode if they are linked.

[stonecutter357]

80. Comrade

Putin said who!

[leveymg]

92. This post is classic deflection. Blames the Left for the inability of the Center to carry out

Last edited Sun Jul 28, 2013, 06:51 PM - Edit history (1)

a Democratic agenda in the face of Rightwing Republican opposition. It assumes that somehow the reason the corporate Centrists are ineffective at governing is the fault of Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden.

Just laughable and absurd!

[flamingdem]

96. So you blame Obama and not the Republicans?

That about sums it up along with defending Greenwald though he's given no proof of his over the top claims about direct access.

[leveymg]

97. You're torturing another metaphor to make another weak point. eom

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. Here's a list of your GD OPs since the NSA spying was revealed, flamingdem:

OP Ed Shultz discussing Walker on MSNBC n/t flamingdem 10:10 PM General Discussion
OP As Republicans Make Millions Suffer, the Left’s Ideologues Obsess Over Edward Snowden flamingdem 7:07 PM General Discussion
OP Great show on MSNBC right now on DETROIT! flamingdem Yesterday General Discussion
OP Kremlin releases new "selfies" of Vladimir Putin on weekend trip flamingdem Friday General Discussion
OP The New Yorker has Anthony Weiner on its next cover flamingdem Friday General Discussion
OP This message was self-deleted by its author flamingdem Friday General Discussion
OP Snowden Damage Still Being Assessed; ‘Deepest Of Deep Secrets’ At Risk, Says STRATCOM’s Kehler flamingdem Thursday General Discussion
OP [NSFW?] The Sexually Annotated Weiner Apology Email - R (X?) Rated flamingdem Thursday General Discussion
OP Snowden's Russian lawyer Anatoly Kucherena spoke to the state-owned channel Russia Today flamingdem Thursday General Discussion
OP Contractors Providing Background Checks For NSA Caught Falsifying Reports, Interviewing The Dead flamingdem Thursday General Discussion
OP Snowden Liveblog: Temporary Asylum in Russia? flamingdem Wednesday General Discussion
OP Anthony Weiner vs. Carlos Danger: the politics of the post-paramour era flamingdem Wednesday General Discussion
OP This message was self-deleted by its author flamingdem Tuesday General Discussion
OP The Convergence of the ‘Glenn Greenwald Left’ and the ‘Alex Jones Right’ flamingdem Tuesday General Discussion
OP A Letter to Edward Snowden Prometheus among the cannibals - Swoon! flamingdem Jul 20 General Discussion
OP Vladimir Putin Is Not an Altruist - streetwiseprofessor.com flamingdem Jul 19 General Discussion
OP How a Wild Theoretical Claim About the NSA Magically Transformed Into Factual Reality flamingdem Jul 19 General Discussion
OP Snowden in Moscow by Israel Shamir - Counterpunch flamingdem Jul 18 General Discussion
OP In Snowden's Russia Opposition Leader and Putin Foe Convicted flamingdem Jul 18 General Discussion
OP Not at all making himself the story, Greenwald to make next shocking NSA revelations, in a book -KOS flamingdem Jul 18 General Discussion
OP Russia's image to improve if Snowden gets refuge - Pushkov flamingdem Jul 17 General Discussion
OP Blogger C. Fitzpatrick on Snowden's future in Russia and his deadmans's switch flamingdem Jul 16 General Discussion
OP The Google Trends graph of interest in Snowden vs. NSA stories past 30 days flamingdem Jul 16 General Discussion
OP Snowden’s Endgame - Game theory suggests how his odyssey might end. flamingdem Jul 15 General Discussion
OP Bob Cesca on Greenwald's "Worst Nightmare" Threat flamingdem Jul 15 General Discussion
OP Snowed on Snowden flamingdem Jul 15 General Discussion
OP Russian Officials Say They Didn’t Receive an Asylum Request From Snowden flamingdem Jul 14 General Discussion
OP Down the Rabbithole, Through the Looking Glass -- to the Grand Duchy of Derp flamingdem Jul 14 General Discussion
OP Greenwald says Snowden Documents Could Be 'Worst Nightmare' for US (Patriot NOT) flamingdem Jul 13 General Discussion
OP The White House is turning up the pressure on Moscow over Snowden. Will it make any difference? flamingdem Jul 13 General Discussion
OP Free Syrian Army commander killed by rivals flamingdem Jul 13 General Discussion
OP Quinnipiac Poll on Gridlock: 68% of Americans say R leaders doing too little to compromise with pres flamingdem Jul 13 General Discussion
OP From Snowden, Putin gets a rare reprieve from unremitting opprobrium flamingdem Jul 12 General Discussion
OP Snowden’s… Defection? flamingdem Jul 12 General Discussion
OP Wikileaks is mad! Calls Obama an authoritarian! flamingdem Jul 12 General Discussion
OP Discarded Romney Campaign Swag Now a Huge Hit in African Villages flamingdem Jul 12 General Discussion
OP The Story Of Edward Snowden As Told By Austin Powers GIFs flamingdem Jul 11 General Discussion
OP Snowden Post for the Road: Where's Edward? Transiberian Railroad Route etc. flamingdem Jul 11 General Discussion
OP Aeroflop - Snowden takes his toll on US-Russian relations flamingdem Jul 11 General Discussion
OP Daniel Ellsberg's Downfall: A Trifecta of Shilling, Conspiracy Theories, and Lies - People's View flamingdem Jul 10 General Discussion
OP EU countries to Bolivia: We did not delay, deny, cancel your flight over our territories flamingdem Jul 10 General Discussion
OP OAS meeting on Bolivian plane incident: It's Bolivia that should apologize flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP Andrea Mitchell mentioned a report that Venzuela has sent a plane to Moscow for Snowden flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP This message was self-deleted by its author flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP On the Verge of Improved US-Cuban Relations - Will Snowden Undo It? flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP Generation Snowden, Part II: A little learning is dangerous. Less learning, more so. flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP Matrix: who is Edward Snowden? flamingdem Jul 9 General Discussion
OP Snowden may have opted for Nicaragua as asylum destination (Kuwait News Agency -only source so far) flamingdem Jul 8 General Discussion
OP Perhaps Wikileaks prefers Nicaragua to Venezuela, backed with evidence flamingdem Jul 8 General Discussion
OP It's 10pm in Moscow, do you know where your Snowden is? Venezuela tweets flamingdem Jul 8 General Discussion
OP Only read this if you don't mind another Snowden speculation post flamingdem Jul 8 General Discussion
OP 'So proud of our Wikileaks daughter' ¿Dónde está Sarah amiga de Assange? flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP MSNBC: Venezuela has given a 24 hour deadline to Snowden for his asylum decision flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP Snowden: Western EU in bed with' NSA - Interview Wikileaks hactivist Appelbaum pre Hong Kong flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP Austria did not search Morales jet in Vienna said Austria's president flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP A Direct Timeline of Glenn Greenwald, His Front Group and the Fugitive Edward Snowden flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP Russian Official Says Venezuela Is the ‘Best Solution’ for Snowden - NYT flamingdem Jul 7 General Discussion
OP US request for extradition of Edward Snowden - full text (Venezuela) flamingdem Jul 6 General Discussion
OP This message was self-deleted by its author flamingdem Jul 5 General Discussion
OP Why Libertarian Organizations Like The Cato Institute Love The NSA Outrage flamingdem Jul 5 General Discussion
OP Inside Edward Snowden's luxury hotel which has its own swimming pool, Turkish baths, gym and library flamingdem Jul 5 General Discussion
OP Disinformation and manipulation created the Evogate narrative - Starting with Portugal flamingdem Jul 4 General Discussion
OP Iceland Congress puts forward bill to grant Snowden citizenship barring fisheries legislation flamingdem Jul 4 General Discussion
OP Glenn Greenwald: New bombshell coming flamingdem Jul 4 General Discussion
OP France, Spain and Portugal: We Didn’t Deny Landing Rights to Morales’ Plane flamingdem Jul 4 General Discussion
OP Edward Snowden's digital 'misuse' has created problems, says Ban Ki-moon flamingdem Jul 3 General Discussion
OP France, Portugal to allow Bolivian plane to fly through their airspace, Spain allowed refueling -NYT flamingdem Jul 3 General Discussion
OP UPDATE: Glenn Greenwald 5:30ish on Chris Hayes msnbc pm EST flamingdem Jul 3 General Discussion
OP Snowden's US lawyer is Libertarian "powerhouse" Bruce Fein flamingdem Jul 2 General Discussion
OP Evo Morales' Presidential plane rerouted to Austria after false rumors of Snowden onboard flamingdem Jul 2 General Discussion
OP Snowden’s Worst-Case Scenario: What If No Countries Take Him? - TIME flamingdem Jul 2 General Discussion
OP Updating List of Snowden Asylum Options: flamingdem Jul 2 General Discussion
OP Update: CHINA added to asylum request list (wtf?) Snowden Slams Obama As Asylum List Revealed flamingdem Jul 2 General Discussion
OP Edward Snowden jumps the shark in Moscow - Jonathan Capehart flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP American surveillance may kill US-EU free-trade talks flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP Snowden Asks 15 Countries for Asylum – LA Times flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP Russian and US security services to work on solution to Snowden fate flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP Maduro to open Hugo Chavez street in Moscow, attend gas summit flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP Still time to place your bets. Where will Snowden be by this time next week? flamingdem Jul 1 General Discussion
OP Bernie up next on Ed nt flamingdem Jun 30 General Discussion
OP Searching for Edward Snowden in Moscow’s Terminal E flamingdem Jun 29 General Discussion
OP 'Tensions don't exist': WikiLeaks refutes media reports about 'Ecuadorean disarray' flamingdem Jun 29 General Discussion
OP Ecuador in talks with Biden over Snowden flamingdem Jun 29 General Discussion
OP In twist Univision uses metadata to determine authorship of Snowden's "Safe Pass" - ABC flamingdem Jun 29 General Discussion
OP Snowden found using the "cone of silence" flamingdem Jun 28 General Discussion
OP Terrorists harder to track after Snowden's leaks, officials say (LA Times) flamingdem Jun 28 General Discussion
OP NBC: Snowden's father floats terms for son's return flamingdem Jun 28 General Discussion
OP John Roberts Shows Cold-Blooded Calculation In His Supreme Court Rulings flamingdem Jun 28 General Discussion
OP Ecuador nixes trade deal, offers US cash for 'education about human rights' flamingdem Jun 27 General Discussion
OP The Errors of Edward Snowden and His Global Hypocrisy Tour - Vanity Fair flamingdem Jun 27 General Discussion
OP Snowden Possibly to Remain in Russia - WikiLeaks update: Venezuela possible option flamingdem Jun 26 General Discussion
OP Iranian woman spent 10 months in the Moscow Airport flamingdem Jun 26 General Discussion
OP Why China Let Snowden Go - New Yorker flamingdem Jun 26 General Discussion
OP Twitter feud between Joy Reid and Glenn Greenwald, challenge issed to Greenwald flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Snowden Realpolitik: Why Russia won't hand over Edward Snowden flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Double down on Obama Hate w/Climate Change + Snowden! (Wapo Editorial) flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Putin Rules Out Extradition for Snowden in Russia Airport flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Oslo Pirate Party Norway: - Snowden Passed Through Norway to Iceland UPDATE: nein, nein, nein flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Greenwald on now with Chris Hayes MSNBC flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Update: Dollars to donuts Snowden is in the Venezuelan Embassy in Moscow flamingdem Jun 25 General Discussion
OP Greenwald sweats Snowden's statements - Washington Post flamingdem Jun 24 General Discussion
OP UPI Update: Snowden still in Moscow flamingdem Jun 24 General Discussion
OP Why Edward Snowden Didn't Go To Havana flamingdem Jun 24 General Discussion
OP What's causing the Snowden's trip delay and what might be happening? flamingdem Jun 24 General Discussion
OP Ed Schultz: Snowden not a patriot, I don't trust him, I'll go with Obama and his assessment flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP On Moscow Layover, Snowden Finds No Friend in Putin (info squeeze in Moscow and Havana hmm) flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP finish this sentence: Snowden gave intelligence about US hacking in China because _______ flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP Snowden reveals US hacking into Tsinghua University in Beijing to South China Morning Post flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP US is 'biggest villain' for IT spying: Xinhua flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP Icelandic businessman readies plane to fly Snowden to asylum flamingdem Jun 23 General Discussion
OP Ed Show on MSNBC now 5pm EST on 2014: get after radical Republican Governors flamingdem Jun 22 General Discussion
OP Witness: Hastings’ speeding car ‘shook my car like a freight truck going by’ flamingdem Jun 21 General Discussion
OP On Glenn Greenwald and His Fans - The Nation flamingdem Jun 21 General Discussion
OP Edward Snowden: China's Useful Idiot? (The Atlantic) flamingdem Jun 17 General Discussion
OP Will China Protect Edward Snowden? - China Digital Times flamingdem Jun 17 General Discussion
OP Snowden’s asset: NSA hacking exposer knows secrets China wants - RT flamingdem Jun 17 General Discussion
OP Syria calls Egypt move a U.S.-Israeli conspiracy flamingdem Jun 17 General Discussion
OP Ed Shultz covering Snowden w/Tom Hartmann + Adam Greene flamingdem Jun 16 General Discussion
OP SNOWDEN牌照妖鏡照出香港土炮偽君子香港販民派/肛門黨/妓協/ࠒ flamingdem Jun 15 General Discussion
OP Snowden claims China hacked since 2009 + faux outrage Beijing style [china.org.cn] flamingdem Jun 15 General Discussion
OP Beijing 'will be very discreet' in dealing with HK over Snowden case flamingdem Jun 15 General Discussion
OP Peter King just made sense re: Snowden on msnbc flamingdem Jun 14 General Discussion
OP Convicted U.S. spy Christopher Boyce: 'Snowden is doomed' flamingdem Jun 14 General Discussion
OP Snowden and Greenwald Beginning to Self-Destruct; ‘The Nation’ and ‘Mother Jones’ Raise Questions flamingdem Jun 14 General Discussion
OP U.S. Fears Edward Snowden May Defect to China: Sources flamingdem Jun 13 General Discussion
OP Does China regret allowing Snowden to stay in Hong Kong? - Bloomberg flamingdem Jun 12 General Discussion
OP CNN has live footage of riot force attack on protesters in Taksim Square, Istanbul flamingdem Jun 12 General Discussion

Who's obsessed, again?

[flamingdem]

100. Obsessed is making a post like this and not parsing the meaning of my OP

You are officially a weird poster to me now since you did this, along with other maneuvers on DU that I've seen that are totally disgusting such as listing my name as a poster for the government.

You are ridiculous.

[stillwaiting]

119. You hate that post because it effectively illuminates how obsessed YOU are with Snowden.

It kind of makes the OP funny.

[flamingdem]

122. I wrote above about my interest in the story

Maybe you could read it again and you might understand how you're not on point.

You're off by a mile.

[stillwaiting]

132. Well, you certainly have no problem putting down "the left's" interest in Snowden's revelations.

Why do you disparage those you share values with?

P.S. I'm POSITIVE that "the left" can juggle more than one issue at a time.

The Snowden revelations are taking up time right now as an issue because they are relevant, and RIGHT NOW there is an opportunity to affect change in a direction that we would like to see manifest. That takes a lot of attention if we are to be successful. Hope that clarifies "the left's" interest in the Snowden affair for you (although ultimately the Snowden REVELATIONS are what is much more important to most of us on the left). Too bad you're not there on the left with us.

[Bluenorthwest]

133. The meaning of your OP and all of them seems to be 'blame liberals not the Republicans'

But it is so hilarious to see you make this OP because you are such a Snowden Road Show. That's a hell of a list of hard working OP's about one person. Obsession on the half shell.
Just so very funny.

[Aerows]

192. Oh for heaven's sake

*YOU* even admitted in one post that you hoped it was "All Snowden, all the time".

Who is obsessed with him?

[demmiblue]

102. Damn!

[flamingdem]

104. You and others here are engaging in shaming and outing in a really sick fashion

I challenge you to find the smears coming from those you attack.

That's because it's one side attacking the other in a PERSONAL and OBSESSED way.

That's some SICK SHIT you're up to there.

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. You think that listing your OPs is 'shaming' and 'outing' you?

Wow, I would have thought you'd stand by what you post on DU.

You posted an OP about people 'obsessed' with Snowden. It's pretty obvious you have posted a lot about Snowden. So this is just the list of threads you started in GD since June 8, and extremely relevant to the subject of your OP. If Snowden had been just one of many topics you post a lot about, then the list would show that. Do you reckon it does?

If it shames you, then maybe you need to change your public behaviour.

And if you want an example of "one side attacking the other in a PERSONAL and OBSESSED way", how about either you saying "That's some SICK SHIT you're up to there"; or reply #116: "leftist ideologue poser revolutionary wannabe ... the sanctimonious Snowden worshipers".

In this very thread, which side is really throwing the insults?

[Bluenorthwest]

141. We've all seen your one billion and one posts on Snowden and Greenwald so there is nothing to

'out' it is what you do in the public square. Get real. 'How dare you point out that I am shouting on a street corner, that's private!'.

[AgingAmerican]

172. Perhaps you're doing it to yourself?

nt

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

105. That's still more data than the NSA has on him. Kind of creepy, dude. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

117. Be realistic. The NSA runs a web crawler that collects all the data that Bing or Google do

for their search engines. This is public data. The NSA can look up 'flamingdem' either on Google, just as we all can, or on their own indexes. I don't have a problem with them collecting all the public data we put out there; we put it there, under our chosen usernames, for the whole world to see, and that includes all governments, if they choose. What they shouldn't be doing is collecting all the metadata of phone and internet use of their own citizens without justification. Or investigating people 3 hops away from actual suspects.

In this case, it's the results of the DU search function. Strange that you think an integral part of DU is 'creepy'.

[Scurrilous]

116. LOL

flamingdem isn't a leftist ideologue poser revolutionary wannabe ignoring the crimes of the GOP while wailing and bemoaning about the NSA.

And she's done a great job yanking the knobs of the sanctimonious Snowden worshipers with those threads. Why don't you do a search on them? I could give you a few names to start with. I'm sure they've posted about Snowden way more than flamingdem.

[SMC22307]

139. Wow, that left a mark.

Well done.

[Number23]

164. For real. Used to almost respect that poster too.

[AgingAmerican]

173. To quote Obama:

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant"

[Number23]

240. That quote is not attributed to Obama.

And why you feel the need to haunt my steps around this web site I will never, EVER understand. And judging by the number of other people that have accused you of stalking, I am not alone.

There's a good way and a bad way to participate here. You seem to be doing everything in your power to master the bad way for reasons that are yours alone.

[Oilwellian]

161. Impressive

and very revealing.

[Bonobo]

196. You nailed the OP TO THE FUCKING WALL!! Bravo!! nt

[Capt. Obvious]

249. Word

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023373647

[muriel_volestrangler]

250. Heh - so flamingdem thinks talking about the thread starter is a 'call out'?

Thanks for the link.

[Rex]

254. Got his thread locked! Thanks for the post

it shows the OPs total disdain for the Left. A clear agenda imo.

[Marr]

259. Wow-- could this shit get any more transparent?

No one makes that many threads on a single subject for free.

[n2doc]

101. So The left can control the Right's agenda?

Cool! I'll just forget about Snowden and make the whole country change! Yipee! Let me know when it works!

[JoeyT]

103. Yeah, sure.

As if the president has any plan to fix or cares about any of that shit. At the worst the terrible "left" is distracting him from his latest Free Trade disaster.

What's unclear is why a bunch of people that scream like banshees if you accuse them of not being liberals or progressives have crawled into bed with the absolute worst the right has to offer, from Michelle Bachmann to Dick Cheney, in defending the erosion of privacy.

So our GOTV strategy is going to be the same as 2014, right? Tell increasingly wider circles of people that the Democratic party doesn't need their kind, then sob for four years when they take us at our word.

[AgingAmerican]

107. You sure are wasting a lot of enegry

expending so much time, energy, and attention on this.

The irony is lost on you, once again.

[flamingdem]

108. Why are you posting a personal attack about an OP from a democratic site?

Now YOU explain

[AgingAmerican]

112. I can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time

But that matters not.

Why are you wasting so much time, energy and attention on GG and Snowden?

Irony lost?

[flamingdem]

114. Who are you to tell me what I post about?

YOU have a problem, realize it.

[AgingAmerican]

118. If you can't handle hearing about it

don't post OPs about it. It's pretty basic stuff.

Oh, and if I have a 'problem' please explain it to me.

Thanks in advance!

[flamingdem]

124. You have a problem, as I explained

but in spite of your apparent age you're not mature enough to realize the difference between discourse and harassment, you're not alone

[AgingAmerican]

134. I have a problem with my government spying on me

"you're not mature enough to realize the difference between discourse and harassment"

Again, the irony is lost on you!

[AgingAmerican]

145. Yes, of course

Posting in a thread and disagreeing with the OP is 'stalking'. You got me there!

[HangOnKids]

229. Ahh Poor Bum Got A Time Out!

Check out juror #6.....a bit clueless ehh? I guess they thought you alerted on the post....

This post is rude and disruptive....since when is engaging in a conversation stalking? Isn't a message board for back and forth discourse?

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Jul 29, 2013, 05:31 PM, and voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: DU needs to police those who abuse anyone who disagrees with their narrow views.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: I agree with the alerter. Accusing the poster of 'stalking' is beyond ridiculous.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: ha, right. No way in hell am I gonna help you game the system buddy. You're an antagonizing anti social RUDE newbie who has no business acting this way toward well meaning and respected DU-er's. What audacity you have.

[AgingAmerican]

236. Funny

Given I didn't alert on it. Thanks for showing me that!

Good times....

[muriel_volestrangler]

125. Your OP is telling other people what they should post about

Seriously, can't you see that?

[flamingdem]

127. Guess what ridiculous outing person

I DID NOT WRITE THE OP

Get over yourself, take a pill or something, we'll see how my alert goes but for now no one is around.

[muriel_volestrangler]

135. Of course you wrote the OP

Your name is on it. There's not a bit of disagreement, or any other comment, from you in it. You chose what to copy. You may as well expect the editor of a newspaper to say "I don't write this stuff, it's nothing to do with me".

[Bluenorthwest]

140. Personal attack that has no bearing on the issue.

nt.

[railsback]

115. The Left better WAKE UP

Is Snowden really worth forcing this country to endure MORE Republicanisms????? The whole 'I stand on my principles' makes me laugh my ass off. Well, good for you, goody-two-shoes. The hypocrisy is BLINDING! All about the social structure, but fuck you all, I got principles…even if that means condemning the WHOLE COUNTRY to another decade of Republican chaos. Holy Fart.

[AgingAmerican]

129. It isn't about Snowden

It isnt about Glen Greenwald. It's about our government spying on us.

Demanding our government stop spying on us will not give us more Republicanisms. It will do the opposite.

[Skittles]

182. it's no use AA - the swooners just DO NOT GET IT

it is sad but it is a fact

[TheKentuckian]

147. How are you blaming the left here? Does the left create a dragnet surveillance program or was that

the Bush junta that Obama first "looked forward" on and then emulated?

Is the left trying to fast track yet another "free trade" debacle?

Is the left appointing BushCo. torturers and the architects of their anti-constitutional programs?

Is the left pushing an expansion of the failed "No child left behind" program?

Is the left protecting and holding harmless the too big to fail "banks" that collapsed the economy?

Is the left opening up more off shore drilling?

Is the left pushing the tar sands pipeline?

Is it the left vouching for the integrity of the voting process and backing the TeaPubliKlan owned tabulation machines?

Was it the left that pissed away a generational level majority trying to find consensus with and share leadership with the very fucking villains the nation had just thrown out?

Was it the left that took impeachment "off the table"?

Was it the left that spent the health care debate cutting deals with PHARMA and big business while the insurance cartel wrote its own bill under the lazy eye and fake oversight provided by Max Baucus?

Was it the left that had single payer advocates arrested?

Was it the left that refused to end an un American anti-trust exemption?

Was it the left that insisted that overwhelmed and out-resourced states be responsible for oversight?

Was it the left that that gave robo signings a pass?

Was it the left that turned a blind eye to torture, only able to go so far as to claim not to also resort to it.

Did the left vote to cut food stamps?

Did the left glut up the stimulus with ineffective tax cuts?

Is it the left that leashes the EPA and the media when Big Extraction poisons us?

Is it the left that refuses to end Reagan's ban on direct work programs?

Is it the left that keeps offering Social Security cuts?

Is it the left calling for austerity in a demand crisis?

Was it the left that signed the bill ending Glass-Stegall in a big show with a fucking chainsaw "cutting big government regulation"

Was it the left who bestowed most favored status on the Chinese?

Who is it that muddies the message by trying to be indiscernible from the opposition as possible in some vain effort to acquire their voters but getting white hot angry when those who aren't aligned with the opposition believe them?

DON'T EXECUTE THE TEAPUBLIKLAN AGENDA IF YOU DON'T WANT THE TEAPUBLIKLANS TO WIN.

No one gives a shit which letter is behind someone's name except you guys and your opposite 29%ers on the other side when both options do the exact same thing (granted, sometimes justified by different rhetoric).

The Turd Way is a cancer, not a cure. "Winning" just means losing with a friendlier face doing the damage and phony ass feeling our pain rhetoric.

[gulliver]

128. Yup

[Savannahmann]

138. So the desire to fill our bellies means it's acceptable to empty our souls?

Interesting. This might be confused with the fourth way, but actually it is merely the second. Things are that bad.

So you post the posturing of an author who suggests that full bellies and full employment is the first thing we should worry about. All other concerns should go by the wayside. It would be a good suggestion, if either was possible in the foreseeable future. President Obama has begun talking about the economy, and has offered no plan to improve it. No grand construction project like the Golden Gate Bridge, or the Hoover Dam. No social project that will take years like the Rural Electrification Project that will take decades. No science based initiative like the Moon landings that would spread money and jobs through the economy. Just that he cares, and the Republicans are blocking him from doing something.

So while we "obsess" over something we can change now, something we can stop now, we are turning our backs on all the other issues in the mind of this author, and apparently you agree with him.

I do not. We celebrated the defeat of DOMA at the hands of the Supreme Court here, while the Snowden affair was fresh. We celebrated the defeat of Prop 8 here, while Snowden was fresh in our minds. We celebrated much, and raged much over the ups and downs of the Zimmerman trial, all while Snowden was still going on. Look at the news, all of those issues got plenty of coverage, all while Snowden's story was continuing to unfold.

So what can we do to improve the economy? We the individuals can't spend money we don't have to buy things we don't need. We can't very well hire someone if we ourselves are barely making ends meet. If we could hire someone, we could not pay them a decent wage, nor provide them with health care.

Yet, we are supposed to do something. So what shall we do? Propose a good war, a nice long war that will pump billions into industry to make bombs and guns and other things needed to end lives in some small nation on the other side of the world? Are we to re-electrify the nation? Perhaps we can tear the Hoover dam down, and rebuild it in a more ecological and efficient manner.

What can we do to jump start the economy, as individuals. All we can do, as individuals, or party members, is support propositions or oppose those propositions put forth by leaders. The leaders are not leading, they are continuing to pump money into Wall Street while all those you mention are suffering. So how do I get behind that? It hasn't created any jobs, and it hasn't helped any poverty stricken families. All it does is continue to pump money into the big money companies that pump money right back into the elected leaders pockets. Both Republicans and Democrats are as guilty as hell here.

So what change can we effect? We can't get Washington to cut the purse strings. That's just not going to happen. We can't force the Wall street masters of greed to cough up the dough and hire people for public works. We tried to with Occupy, and the Government came in and infiltrated and broke them apart from within using violence, lies, and propaganda like this piece from Politics USA.

We can do none of that, but we can save our rights. We can protest, and object, and fight to save our rights. We can raise a ruckus that moves at the speed of stink. We can dash the hopes of the wannabe fascists who dream of the day when a Rethug is in the White House and can use those databases to destroy the Left once and for all. We can save everyone on the left, or we can meekly go and join the right. You apparently choose the option that has us sell our soul to join the RW in this.

I do not.

[kentuck]

143. kick

[Bluenorthwest]

146. A quote from Henry A Wallace:

"The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money and power."
Discuss.

[JI7]

148. most of them are not the left, most are conspiracy theory types and right wing libertarian types

i notice right now a few particular snowden fans were ones who were pushing some shit about us weapons testing or other crap being the reason for the earthquake/tsunami some years back.

[MotherPetrie]

149. What a goddamn fucking STUPID article. It's not either/or. It's possible to do both.

[MannyGoldstein]

156. Actually, It's the Third Way crowd that's obsessing over Snowden

Us FDR Democrats are focused on reclaiming the Fourth Amendment, and reclaiming our country.

FDR Democrat: "Spying on all Americans is against the Constitution".

Third Wayer: "Snowden suxx! He sometimes didn't smile at his neighbors, he suxx!"

FDR Democrat: "I don't care about Snowden. Spying on all Americans is against the Constitution".

Third Wayer: "Snowden suxx! He had boxes in his garage, he suxx!"

Politicsusa is a nutty, lying, Third-Way site.

[Zorra]

157. Exactly. nt

[freshwest]

159. More from the link, why I'm disgusted with this media circus:

What is happening on the left is a repeat of the events that allowed teabaggers to sweep into power in the House and states in the 2010 midterm elections, and despite the damage voter apathy then is wreaking on the people now, the same contingent of disaffected liberals is drawing attention away from the only solution to stave off more Republican devastation on Americans in distress. Instead of focusing on one man’s self-imposed legal problems, the left should be educating Americans about why they are in distress and help prepare them to participate in the next election. It is true Republicans in former Confederate and ALEC-controlled states are passing voter suppression laws, but it highlights the need to start mobilizing Americans who are suffering the effects of the Republican victory in the 2010 midterm elections to prevent more damage if the GOP prevails in the next election. There is absolutely nothing ideological civil libertarians can do to help their hero who banished himself to a Russian airport now or in the future, but they can help their fellow Americans who are real people in distress. It is a mystery why they need an idealized hero, but they found one and it is distracting them from the plight of half the population.

Millions of Americans are suffering and they need assistance now. Senior citizens and disabled Americans unable to leave their homes are going hungry because the sequester cuts anywhere between 5 and 19 million meals from Meals on Wheels, and 775,000 women and children are being dropped from the WIC program by the end of the year due to sequester cuts. Over 100,000 disabled adults, Veterans, and poor families will be put on the streets from the sequester’s HUD cuts, and 65,000 children will lose two nutritional meals five days a week from Head Start cuts; 11,500 Head Start jobs will be eliminated as well. These are real numbers affecting real Americans that are in distress and yet, civil libertarian ideologues are focusing their attention on one man who sequestered himself in a Russian airport.

To be fair, a share of the blame lies with the media that has made the expatriates in Russia and South America the focus of so much attention instead of the plight of millions of Americans suffering Republican cuts. In fact to keep Americans distracted, the media focused the people’s attention on a baby born to an English prince, and has been busy providing daily updates on a New York mayoral candidate’s sexting addiction instead of highlighting the plight of millions of Americans in distress and who can blame them? It is what the people want, and it is just like civil libertarians who want to keep their hero in Russia in the news instead of their neighbors who are struggling in poverty or near poverty.

There is no doubt the people focusing on the plight of Snowden are sincere and passionate, but where is their compassion for millions of their fellow Americans victimized by Republican cuts in their own neighborhoods and families? Women are losing their reproductive rights, children are going hungry, seniors and Veterans are being put out on the streets, and millions of Americans are losing their right to vote, and the same ideologues on the left are distracting attention away from the plight of real Americans in distress. Curiously, and just like 2010, they are focusing their attention on one man who stole and passed on secrets from the United States government instead of Americans in distress.

Those who aren't affected, cannot be bothered with these invisible people. And talk loud and proud about ideology and purity, while others are concerned about those to whom the media gives no time. They offer no solutions, and insult every solution offered. Okay, then. And here's the words of a POTUS who was by no means perfect and would never, ever have passed the purity tests made nowadays:

True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

~ Franklin D. Roosevelt

It's a damned sad thing to see this.

[MannyGoldstein]

160. Just curious - do you agree with Elizabeth Warren that 'chained CPI'

“is just a fancy way to say ‘cut benefits for seniors, the permanently disabled, and orphans’” ?

[Number23]

163. Well, Snowden and how important DU is to Teh Establishment

The self-important navel gazing that goes on around here....

And part of me feels that this article is a bit unfair to lay all of this at the feet of "the left" but then another part of me remembers that large numbers of DUers have no problem laying everything at the feet of this president and have adopted the bizarre and abhorrently stupid idea that criticizing the Repubs is useless and that all of their poison should be directed at Obama/Democrats so it all kind or works out, I guess.

Ideologues of every stripe disgust. There is no reasoning with someone who feels evangelical in their righteousness (no matter how hypocritical, destructive or just plain stupid) and sees everyone who disagrees with them as the enemy.

[great white snark]

185. Same here.

Article a little unfair but we get to see how insanely protective they've become over their complaint assets.

[NuclearDem]

165. As leftists, we're incapable of focusing on more than one issue at a time.

Right?

[PowerToThePeople]

168. you can change it to glen greenwald now

when are we going to talk about things that matter again?

[Hekate]

170. I'm shocked!

... that somebody finally noticed ...

[LittleBlue]

174. Because if Snowden didn't exist, poverty would vanish,

we'd have a public healthcare system, the banksters would be in jail rather than making billions, etc.




Trash thread

[mick063]

241. LittleBlue

You are my favorite poster on DU.

Honestly, you are consistently concise and brilliant.

I read you so that I may become more effective.

[LittleBlue]

242. lol thanks

We're from Washington state, common sense isn't taught in the other 49.

(I try my best to imitate Manny )

[Union Scribe]

177. So wait, let me get this straight...

Obama can absolutely not ever even a little be blamed for Republican obstructionism, but "The Left" can be blamed for it??

[SunSeeker]

190. K & R

[philly_bob]

191. Divisive

I won't alert, but I have my doubts.

It's not EITHER privacy or jobs. And "ideologues"?

[NCTraveler]

197. Maybe the ideologues have it right.

If Homeland Security and the DoD weren't so out of control and bloated, less people would be suffering. For anyone with any sense, the Snowden situation is about more than Snowden. It is about the theme of general governmental abuse and infringement. If our government stopped fighting to push the envelope, spending billions to do so, we would all be better off.

I am no ideologue, I think Snowden is a traitor. I still support those who will not stop beating the drums on this one. It is important to all of us. Fight on "ideologues". What a shitty thing to call people who are concerned about this problem.

[KamaAina]

204. "an expatriate journalist living in South America"

because his same-sex partner is Brazilian, and up until now, they couldn't legally live together here.

Interesting to see if the demise of DOMA paves the way for Greenwald's return.

[Luminous Animal]

207. He says it is problematic because he has 8 dogs...

Six of them rescue dogs.

[Downtown Hound]

209. I'm perfectly capable of caring about both

Contrary to what some douche bags who make it either or think.

[bvar22]

210. Since YOU continually obsess about Snowden,

probably MORE than anyone else on this website,
doesn't that make YOU the [font size=3]Left’s BIGGEST Ideologue[/font] on DU?

Between YOU and Pro-Whatever, you have [font size=3]OBSESS[/font] about Snowden way more than anyone else around here.

..and THIS OP adds One MORE to the pile!!!

[Skittles]

227. I do not think they understand irony or hypocrisy, bvar22

I think that requires some critical thinking

[Major Hogwash]

233. I do.

Since you two can't ignore her posts, that's irony!!

[Skittles]

234. I think she may be among the last ones

I *AM* getting there - DU feels like it used to without these swooners

[Major Hogwash]

235. I don't know what you're talking about.

I have no idea what you mean by "swooners", but it doesn't matter to me.

[Skittles]

248. uh huh

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[rhett o rick]

237. Another post with no substance. Just snark. That's all you guys got.

That and ad hominem attacks and ridicule. Never discuss issues unless you have WH talking points. Why are you here if you dont want to discuss issues? Do you guys have any opinions on the Patriot Act, domestic spying, or indefinite detention?

Here's a post about FISA: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023262702 jump in and let us know how you feel.

[mick063]

244. There is a time and place for everything

Consider the path that leads to snark.

Personally, I like the emotional investment.

After all, modern politics are currently one great emotional investment based upon fear. One would expect that anger would follow suit.

[rhett o rick]

246. The problem I see is that we have Democrats that carry water for the conservative Administration.

How are we going to win for freedom and liberty when some Democrats are fighting us every step of the way?
We need to kick their sorry conservative asses back into the Republican Party where they belong.

[Marr]

260. That was one of the Bushbots' distinguishing characteristics as well, oddly enough.

Must be an authoritarian thing.

[ecstatic]

243. I have to agree. I'm not trying to knock anyone

but I personally don't get it. I assume all of their other needs (financially, etc.) are already taken care of so they have time to focus on that? That being said, I welcome any reforms that can be made with NSA practices...but geez!

[Whisp]

245. K&R.

[Tarheel_Dem]

251. How the hell did I miss this? Big K & R!!!!!!

[Scurrilous]

262. Boink.