Oh goodie. The Egyptian Military is going to murder more people

[cali]

Egypt minister: Pro-Morsi protesters to be dispersed

Minister Mohammed Ibrahim said lawsuits filed by residents near a mosque provide legal cover for the clearance.

But thousands insist they will stay at the Rabaa al-Adawia mosque.

The area was the scene of bloody clashes between the army and protesters on Saturday, with doctors estimating that more than 100 people were killed.

<snip>

The government has denied this, insisting security forces only used tear gas, not live rounds. The BBC's Quentin Sommerville in Cairo says this appears to be untrue given the severity and number of injuries.

<snip>

Medics at a nearby field hospital told the BBC they believed about 70% of the casualties were caused by live fire - with many of the victims hit in the chest or head by snipers firing from rooftops.

<snip>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23478947

[leveymg]

1. If this had happened in Syria in Spring 2011, we would've heard about it loud and clear, for days.

But, given our special relationship with the Egyptian military, crickets and obfuscation.

[NutmegYankee]

5. I think our dislike of religious fundamentalists plays in here too.

Hard to get excited defending scumbags who shit all over woman's rights in Eqypt while fighting scumbags who shit all over woman's rights at home.

[Comrade Grumpy]

14. Maybe we should have coups in Austin, Madison, and Lansing.

And have the soldiers and cops gun down the protestors, too? After all, they're just "scumbags."

Politics is one thing. Gunning down demonstrators is another.

[NutmegYankee]

17. Having escorted women into clinics past those types of protestors...

I'd not have much of a hardship seeing them eliminated. To call those monsters human is to insult the species as a whole.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Well, here's hoping you never attain power.

I, too, have escorted women to abortion clinics, in Austin in the 1980s. The right-to-lifers are loathesome, but you don't deal with your political foes by murdering them. Get a grip.

And your angry, dehumanizing rhetoric is, well, angry and dehumanizing. "Scumbags." "Monsters." It's always easier to kill the less-than-human. Again, get a grip.

[NutmegYankee]

19. Gee, given the events of the last few years...

Global economic meltdown, economic genocide of the working class, a war on women's rights, intentional destruction of the machinery of government by the right wing, corporate rule, etc - I can't imagine why anyone would be well - ANGRY!

I just wish you could understand hyperbole when you read it.

[WovenGems]

2. Well...

It was inevitable given the Moslem Brotherhood thought they had a nice little caliphate. The army will doubt do what was done years ago, imprison the MB leadership and cripple the organization.

[L0oniX]

4. IMO the Moslem Brotherhood is a threat to Democracy ...anywhere they exist. n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

7. To liberty, certainly. But they did win an election.

I think it quite possible that Egypt under a military dictatorship would be a better place to live than Egypt under an Islamic theocracy.

But that doesn't change the fact that the Brotherhood won an election, and that Morsi was a more-or-less legitimate ruler overthrown by a military coup.

One could argue that Morsi might well have undermined democracy himself left in power, but "he might well do bad things in the future" doesn't strike me as sufficient grounds for ending a democracy.

I don't think there's a good answer to this one.

[GlashFordan]

11. Its important to understand

The Egyptian military has had direct relations and communications with US peers in the area for many years and are considered a more stable and reliable regional power in the area. Thus, the US supports the military.

[L0oniX]

20. Islamic Brotherhood under a democracy would vote to replace democracy with theocracy and Sharia law

IMO.

[oberliner]

30. Surely there is more to democracy than winning an election

Did they not act in un-democratic ways after the election?

There wasn't really a "might" about it, but rather an actually did.

For instance, he actually did grant himself the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts

[NuclearDem]

3. It's not a coup!

It's just the military assuming control and shooting members of the opposition. Not a coup.

[MineralMan]

6. And what is it, Cali, that you think we should, or can, do about that?

For the Egyptians, it's a crisis. No doubt. But it's their crisis, not ours. Egypt and its people are going to have to settle their own affairs. We don't, any of us, know what the Egyptian people want. They don't know what they want, and the country is deeply divided.

DU can't solve this problem. We don't even understand it, to be quite frank.

[cali]

10. I would hope, MM, that there is some intense behind the scenes hard diplomacy

going on.

We routinely intervene diplomatically in countries where we perceive our interests are threatened. Perhaps you didn't know, but Egypt and the mideast is one such area.

And with a little due diligence, you can inform yourself so that you at least have some idea of what's going on.

Of course, I never said a word about DU solving this problem. DU is a discussion board, Mineral. We discuss things.

But thanks for your, er, contribution. So very useful.. or not.

[Comrade Grumpy]

12. The US is required by law to cut assistance to countries that have undergone a coup.

The law is quite clear, despite the BS emanating from Foggy Bottom.

That should be our role, ending support to the coupmeisters.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. DU can petition the US govt to stop $1.5bn a year in aid, including F-16s

Officials: Obama Administration Sees No Coup In Egypt, Allowing US To Maintain Military Aid

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration will tell lawmakers Thursday that it won't declare Egypt's government overthrow a coup, U.S. officials said, allowing the United States to continue providing $1.5 billion in annual military and economic aid to the Arab world's most populous country.

William Burns, the State Department's No. 2 official, will hold closed-doors briefings with members of the House and Senate just a day after Washington delayed delivery of four F-16 fighter jets to Egypt. It was the first U.S. action since the military ousted Mohammed Morsi as president, imprisoned him and other Muslim Brotherhood members and suspended the constitution earlier this month.

The administration has been forced into difficult contortions to justify not declaring a coup d'etat, which would prompt the automatic suspension of American assistance programs under U.S. law. Washington fears that halting such funding could imperil programs that help to secure Israel's border and fight weapons smuggling into the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, among other things seen as critical to U.S. national security.

It's unclear what specific arguments it will present Thursday, but the officials said Burns will explain how the administration has yet to make any coup determination and that it doesn't plan to do so in the future as Egypt moves to restore civilian governance and hold new democratic elections. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak publicly ahead of the private meetings.

Read more: http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/216958151.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014548367

[liberal_at_heart]

8. Our government refused to have anything to do with Myanmar after its military take over.

Why would we continue to support it while it is happening in Egypt? This is what sucks about all governments. They only do or don't do something because there is something to be gained by it even if people have to die in the mean time.

[yodermon]

13. Israel's not next to Myanmar n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

16. exactly.

[Scootaloo]

28. Because US foreign policy is defined by one word - "crusade"

Basically US foreign policy revolves around either turning Middle Eastern states into vassals, or destroying them. We've got two vassals currently - Saudi Arabia and Israel - and are struggling to regain control over a third, Egypt. if Egypt keeps resisting control, expect that we'll use not only our own resources, but those of our two other vassals, to render as much destruction and carnage against Egypt as possible. Just as we did with Lebanon and Iraq and Afghanistan, just as we are doing with Yemen and Syria, and just as we worked so hard to do to Iran in the 80's. There's also Turkey and Jordan, but so long as they keep their lips planted on the anuses of our two vassals, we don't worry about them much.

On the other hand, we don't really give much of a damn about Southeast Asia one way or the other, at least not since 1974. So we'll follow our own laws and standards there because to do so doesn't conflict with our efforts to conquer or destroy.

[1-Old-Man]

9. How far would the protests have got if the Egyptian Army had the NSA working for it?

How would protests be organized if the Army opposed them and had the equal of our NSA at its disposal, that and drones?

Think about it.

[kestrel91316]

21. I'm assuming you preferred Morsi's Islamic fundamentalists in power? Or perhaps you

long for a return to Mubarak's style of governing? Or perhaps you just like to stir up s--- regardless of who is involved - anybody the Democrats might possibly favor is bad in your book?

[Comrade Grumpy]

22. You make a lot of assumptions, speaking of shit-stirring...

[1-Old-Man]

23. It is not our choice to make.

[kelliekat44]

25. I prefer to not have military coups. And I prefer to not have peaceful protestor shot while

doing the same thing that the opposition did weeks earlier.

[Scootaloo]

29. Compared to gunning down people in the middle of the street? yes

Given the choice between two motherfuckers, I will choose the motherfucker who's not securing power via mass murder of the opposition.

[Catherina]

24. VIDEO: Plainclothes policeman firing machine gun at MBs this morning

Hossam عمو حسام ?@3arabawy 1m

VIDEO: Plainclothes policeman firing machine gun at MBs this morning

#ACAB #NoSCAF

at 2m2s and 3m15s and 4m10s

In case anyone cares, for partisan purposes, or to for fear of propaganda, the above video was sent out by a leader of the Revolutionary Socialists who's the furthest thing from an Islamist.

[kelliekat44]

26. Why would any leader change to democratic elections when this is a result?

For the Brotherhood winning in Gaza, we and Israel have attempted to deny them building materials, food, medicines, and many basic human resources. We should not lose anymore sons and daughters fighting in other countries so they can have full and free elections if we don't intend to respect the outcome of such elections.

[oberliner]

31. The Brotherhood winning in Gaza?

What are you talking about?

[Igel]

34. Hamas.

It's the offshoot of the MB in Gaza. Historically, at least.

Similar in many respects, but it has its own hierarchy and any connections are mostly ideological and, well, "brotherly."

[oberliner]

35. Not exactly the same

I know Hamas wouldn't say they were.

[MrSlayer]

27. It's a shame but it's also their problem.

In hindsight we should have just backed old Hosni as he put down the rebellion.

[oberliner]

32. What is your take on the situation?

How do you see it playing out?

[Catherina]

33. "Our Jerk of an Ambassador in Sweden"

Our Jerk of an Ambassodor in Sweden

In a conversation with the PM of Sweden. Our Egyptian Diplomats Fail.



http://egyptreborn.blogspot.com/2013/07/mosaab-el-shamys-testimony-events-of.html?spref=tw

Carl Bildt, Foreign Minister of Sweden since 2006, not PM but small error