Greenwald: Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying

[kpete]

Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying. The Obama administration made common cause with the House Republican leadership


One of the worst myths Democratic partisans love to tell themselves - and everyone else - is that the GOP refuses to support President Obama no matter what he does. Like its close cousin - the massively deceitful inside-DC grievance that the two parties refuse to cooperate on anything - it's hard to overstate how false this Democratic myth is. When it comes to foreign policy, war, assassinations, drones, surveillance, secrecy, and civil liberties, President Obama's most stalwart, enthusiastic defenders are often found among the most radical precincts of the Republican Party.




To say that there is a major sea change underway - not just in terms of surveillance policy but broader issues of secrecy, trust in national security institutions, and civil liberties - is to state the obvious. But perhaps the most significant and enduring change will be the erosion of the trite, tired prism of partisan simplicity through which American politics has been understood over the last decade. What one sees in this debate is not Democrat v. Republican or left v. right. One sees authoritarianism v. individualism, fealty to The National Security State v. a belief in the need to constrain and check it, insider Washington loyalty v. outsider independence.

That's why the only defenders of the NSA at this point are the decaying establishment leadership of both political parties whose allegiance is to the sprawling permanent power faction in Washington and the private industry that owns and controls it. They're aligned against long-time liberals, the new breed of small government conservatives, the ACLU and other civil liberties groups, many of their own members, and increasingly the American people, who have grown tired of, and immune to, the relentless fear-mongering.

The sooner the myth of "intractable partisan warfare" is dispelled, the better. The establishment leadership of the two parties collaborate on far more than they fight. That is a basic truth that needs to be understood. As John Boehner joined with Nancy Peolsi, as Eric Cantor whipped support for the Obama White House, as Michele Bachmann and Peter King stood with Steny Hoyer to attack NSA critics as Terrorist-Lovers, yesterday was a significant step toward accomplishing that.



.....................




the rest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/27/1227021/-Greenwald-Democratic-establishment-unmasked-prime-defenders-of-NSA-bulk-spying

[forestpath]

1. They are all in it together - well, almost all of them.

[sabrina 1]

51. Not all, but most it seems. How depressing to have been so fooled.

[bbgrunt]

2. kabuki theater at its finest. k and r

[think]

3. Isn't it time to end the charades Washington?

K&R

[RobertEarl]

4. Can you blame them?

They are of the 1% that runs the world. And the rest of us don't like how they are running it.

They have a duty, just like Snowden, to bow to the demands of keeping the 1% the 1%. Except Snowden told them to eat it.

The rest of them, the elites that sit at the top of the heap of US politics, will only give up what is forced from them. That's how the 1% got to be the 1%, by hoarding as much power as they can.

Just witness that the vote counting machines are still in place to realize just how they think about anyone who is not an elite 1%.

[questionseverything]

7. and not just the machines

but the reporting of votes

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7875

A total of 1,465 votes seem to have suddenly showed up in the Dem Senate race! And then there are the disappearing votes in the Republican race...

the numbers flip all over the place so how can we believe they are accurate?

[RobertEarl]

9. Better not believe it... the counts

To think the 1% would not use the machines to make sure the 1% stay the 1% is just dumb.

Of course we also have to deal with those who are 1% wannabes. They suck, literally, up to their masters.

[L0oniX]

5. Each side will work against any 3rd party. How would a Dem candidate break away from 1%...

and go to work for the real majority of people. Anyone who does will be marginalized like Sanders. The last thing the Dems want is someone "like" Sanders having a reasonable and fair chance at the white house. Anyone who cares about the lower and middle class and US jobs will be attacked by both sides of this good cop bad cop show sponsored by the 1%. Democracy is an illusion and we're all partisan zombie voters.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. That will be true as long as money equals votes,...oh wait....

Romney outspent Obama and lost by a landslide.

I guess these guys are just slow.

[L0oniX]

25. Let me know when ya can get Goldman Sachs voted out of office. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. I'm waiting for the comedy of Liberals claiming it'll happen under Hillary.

[L0oniX]

31. Yeah uhm ...what are the Clintons worth now? I know its over 100m. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Wonder how much of that is with Goldman.

[DonCoquixote]

38. er

what makes you think it won't continue under Hillary?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. Because I'm a Kucinich supporter. I know what REAL change would look like.

[DonCoquixote]

43. that was my point

I know that Hillary ill do it and probably ramp it up, your statement made it sound like she would not, though now it sounds like that was not the intent.

As far as Dennis, he does not know how to sell his ideas, which is why I am hoping for a Warren, Gore, or even Dean, though I do look forward to working with you in the Primaries to stop the coronation of Queen Hillary, and Bill Clinton's de facto third term.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. Dennis could EASILY "sell his ideas" because they're popular.

[DonCoquixote]

46. Then he could have done so

And I was one of the people hoping he would run as Senator, and clean out the Ohio GOP machine, but he did not, instead, he went to Fox News. Everybody drinks water, but a bad salesman will still not sell, and he has been a bad salesman.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. The rest of the media refused to have him on....

He had two annoying habits.

He would repeat a single line over and over in a speech and when he was excited he would hop.

[DonCoquixote]

49. as I said

Bad salesman.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. I guess you want better packaging....

Keep in mind that Washington is known as "Hollywood for ugly people".

[sigmasix]

6. interesting

there's that Greenwald love of the teabagger faction again: "new breed of small government conservatives" is an interesting name for the extreme right wing elements of hate that ushered-in the Bush spying apparatus and supports the antiAmerican aims of the Koche brothers. Teabaggers are anything but conservative and they certainly dont beleive in smaller government- why does Greenwald and his paymasters keep insisting on calling teabaggers "the new breed of small government conservatives" if Greenwald and his ilk are just innocent "news journalists" shouldn't they be using an honest description of the teabagger movement instead of the right wing-approved characterizations they keep insisting on using.

Why do Teabaggers and Greenwald hate Americans so much?

[bvar22]

8. Paulson with Co-Conspirators:

[font size=4]Now THIS is Bi-Partisanship.
Better get used to it, SUCKERS!
Hahahahahahahahaha![/font]

For those who believe that Congress is too monolithic,
too "partisan",
too bureaucratic,
or too top heavy to move quickly on ANY issue,
let this forever put THAT myth to rest.

Our Congress, Senate, and White House,
Republicans and Democrats working together, hand in glove,
delivered a $TRILLION$ Dollars to Wall Street,
No strings attached, no questions asked,
and set a Precedent for AutoMatic Bailouts for anything "Too Big to Fail"
[font size=3]less than a 10 days after receiving an Extortion Note from Wall Street
that threatened the Quarterly Profits of their Investment Portfolios.[/font]

Passed by The House of Representatives.
Passed by The Senate,
and
Signed by The President....all in less than 10 days.

Our "Representatives" can and WILL strike faster than a Rattlesnake if you threaten their 1% and 1% Wannabe Financial Self-Interests.
QED

[eilen]

33. Yeah, they almost looked like a functioning legislative body for a day.

My, how quickly that issue rose on the agenda and was voted on!

[SidDithers]

10. Sigh...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023337088

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023339316

Sid

[burnodo]

12. So?

is this supposed to mean something?

[Aerows]

13. I find it interesting that the most ardent NSA defenders

and supporters of everything Obama ... aren't even American citizens, and couldn't vote in our elections anyway. Don't get me wrong, I like our Canadian brothers and sisters north of the border, but you seem to have such a vested interest in defending every single thing our government does, but it doesn't affect YOU.

Last I checked, you folks have universal health care. You folks have a far stronger social safety net than Americans have. Do you even realize how lucky you guys are? Then you complain because we criticize Democrats and Obama. We complain because our lives are NOWHERE near the standards you guys have, yet you think we should just sit around and praise a crumb.

[Mojorabbit]

16. +100 nt

[L0oniX]

26. ^^^^this^^^^

[nenagh]

29. Aerows, I think like you do.... Living in Canada, dual citizen, born in USA

I am very troubled by the NSA revelations... Just don't voice my opinion very often.

[Aerows]

32. It's not all Canadians

I was directing that comment directly at the Canadian I was replying to . There are a few others here that are also Canadians that fit that description.

I agree with you that it is troubling, and I think it is important to discuss it and to push back against the surveillance state. Blindly accepting everything that the government does is a very dangerous proposition.

[nenagh]

34. I remember watching a video of one of the earlier whistle blowers describing how data is accumulated

by amassing data points through time that produced a 3 dimensional graph like image that just enlarges itself as the years progress. I think he said that we all have one...maybe just online stuff collated

Recently, online or on TV, someone was showing us the newest thing in camera work. it involved conglomeration of many cameras I think that produced a huge overall living map.

From the large map he could extract small screens and zoom in on the small screens,and we watched as people walked around in real time. Producing maybe 30 or more small more zoomed in screens which could go back in time, having recorded the data from days previously.

[gulliver]

11. This is more like what it is about.

Sowing discord in the Democrats over trivialities. Calling the state of "intractable partisan warfare" a myth is like saying global warming doesn't exist. It is either ignorance or intellectual criminality.

One thing that bothers me about the whole Greenwald thing is that it is so pointlessly destructive and devastating to those who are weakest and most oppressed. With Greenwald one suspects that stoking anger and paranoia is for his own amusement and gain. With his followers one suspects that they merely lack any existential feeling of purpose if they aren't angry and afraid. For their own emotional purposes (rationalized with seriously comic phony Constitution worship) , they throw sand in the machine that people depend on.

Hopefully very few of us take our eyes off of the prize and defect against those who need us. We should be trying to get people educated, in jobs, and out of prison.

[DirkGently]

14. Aha. THIS is why NSA apologists suddenly "hate Libertarians more than Republicans."

They're frantically trying to paper over the fact that they're with the worst of the Republicans on this.

[stonecutter357]

18. "hate Libertarians more than Republicans."

I don't know about hate but i will not vote for Racist Pigs.
And i am not a NSA apologists.

[DirkGently]

22. Not about "voting." Maybe you missed the point.

My post has nothing to do with who anyone "votes" for. We are all supposedly Democrats here. What's amusing is the recent desperate attempt to pretend the NSA scandal is a "Libertarian" issue on the basis some Paul or another joined in. As in, literally, one or or two people who call themselves Libertarians.

What this ignored, and what the recent vote showed, is that defending the exploding NSA surveillance state is very much on the *Republican* agenda, and those defending the NSA here are not in line with just one or two Republicans, but with the bulk of them, and especially with the very worst conservatives like Lindsey Graham and Michele Bachmann.

In other words, the people attempting to shriek "Libertarian" at everyone are in fact standing with ultra-right Republicans, so they are 1) wrong that's it's a "Libertarian" issue, and 2) doing exactly what they lamely attempted to imply others were doing themselves -- siding with the ideological opposites of Democrats.

"Racist Pigs," by the way, is not actually on the Libertarian platform -- it's more of a "Paul family" attribute instead, so kind of interesting that you leapt right with the same idea as well. Just a point of interest.

[JoeyT]

20. Yep!

Many are frantically pretending a whole lot of Republicans, including the Bush administration, never existed.

[leftstreet]

35. +1

[cantbeserious]

15. Obama Administration Unmasked - Wanton Undermining Of The 4th Amendment

eom

[stonecutter357]

17. No one is coming after you.

[randome]

19. Still waiting for the evidence of bulk spying.

It's a good thing I'm not holding my breath. Let's see some more PowerPoint slides, Greenwald!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Fumesucker]

21. Waiting for evidence that you will then want the provider prosecuted for giving out

Since it's illegal to reveal the evidence you claim to be pining for.

It's quite a nice dodge.

[randome]

23. Proving something illegal or abusive is the very definition of whistleblower.

I would be behind Snowden, even Greenwald, if they had evidence of their ridiculous claims. Until they provide it, I prefer to wait, listen and evaluate based on the evidence at hand.

Something I thought Democrats were better at doing than Republicans.

What S&G have done is to steal national security documents because they decided on their own that they simply don't agree with the rules and laws as they stand and therefore they are justified in anything they do or say from now on.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hydra]

40. I doubt you'll still be here when it all comes out

as most of it has already, but I'm making a huge banquet for a few of you.



I hope you guys enjoy it.

[randome]

41. I have said S&G have not provided evidence to support their claims.

I have no crows to eat in this debate.

If there was evidence that the NSA is operating illegally or abusively, don't you think they would have provided it by now?

All we have so far is a misinterpretation of 'direct access' and some PowerPoint slides.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hydra]

42. You've been shown evidence multiple times

You duck out every single time it happens. The Verizon warrant is a violation of the 4th amendment. The FISA court ruled the NSA was violating the 4th amendment. Clapper lied to Congress when asked if they were collecting *any* data. They admitted to holding data 3 hops from a suspect. I could keep going.

This is all unraveling. It IS illegal, they aren't watching the "terrorists&quot Boston Bombing happens even after they were warned) and the only people happy with it are the people who think rights are passe.

[randome]

44. The Verizon warrant has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment.

Please try to look at things objectively. Phone metadata records have long been ruled by courts to not be our personal property. Therefore, there is no 4th Amendment protection.

The FISA court ruled in one specific instance that the NSA had gone too far. The same FISA court you no doubt don't trust. And need I point out that this still has nothing whatsoever to do with S&G?

Do you have a problem with courts 'correcting' law enforcement? It happens from time to time. Does that support the idea that the NSA is 'spying on everybody' as S&G want you to believe? Not that I can see.

A legally issued warrant is not evidence of illegality or abuse. You get what the word legal means, right?

Clapper did lie. He was sworn not to talk about that subject and then asked about it in a public forum. He tried to fudge his answer and failed. You don't hear much from Congress about taking him to task about this, do you? There is a reason for that.

And I do not 'duck out' of conversations on an Internet forum.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hydra]

47. You've ducked out on me and others multiple times

The FISA warrant is illegal because it doesn't show probable cause. If they don't need a warrant for the information, why did they make one?

The FISA court ruled a violation in 2 areas of the law, not one specific case. Because the Obama Admin is blocking us from seeing it, we don't know if it was corrected or not. I consider the fact that such a pliant and unopposing group of lawyers that are hand picked by Roberts had a problem with what was going on, then it had to have been pretty blatant and egregious.

I don't have a problem with courts correcting law enforcement and the executive branch. Did they accept the correction? Doesn't look like it. The President fought the Amash/Conyers amendment, which was pretty straightforward and hard to argue with. The only reason you would fight it is if it was being abused to spy on everyone...which is becoming increasingly clear.

Clapper had a day to prepare for the congressional questions. He could have said he wasn't at liberty to say, but he did the easy thing and he lied. The fact that he hasn't been brought up on charges for doing so says a lot about how loose we are with the laws for the last 13 or more years.

Continue to deny what we're seeing. Without the illegal Verizon Warrant, none of what is happening in the courts and in congress would be happening right now. Even if Greenwald publishes nothing else, that will be what got the ball rolling.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

50. There is documentary evidence published at the Gaurdian

You should check it out, it's been up for more than a month now.

You're welcome

[Cha]

27. Fuck greenwald.. and his stupid mask.

[YoungDemCA]

28. What a convicing, thoughtful argument!

Totally not an ad hominem attack!

[struggle4progress]

36. "There's no difference between the parties! So vote 3rd party, or just don't vote!"

[Union Scribe]

53. I don't see that anywhere. What are you quoting? nt

[struggle4progress]

54. It's Greenwald's basic strategy: he beats notes on this drum constantly, regardless of facts

At a talk given the day after the 2010 election — one that was a disaster for Democrats — “progressive” writer and civil liberties lawyer Glenn Greenwald gave a talk at the University of Wisconsin, and expressed the hope that Democrats might suffer the same fate in 2012 ... But it was Greenwald’s notion of third party voting that offered the greatest window in what he’d like to see happen in American elections ... If all you ever do is complain about how horrible and abysmal the Democrats are, but at the end of the day, right before the election happens, you say, you know what, as much as I loathe you, and as disappointing as you’ve been, and as horrible as the things you have done, I’m going to give you my support because you’ve scared me that the other alternative is just a little bit worse … and therefore since I’ll never vote Republican, you have my unconditional undying support no matter how much how stmp on my values, no matter how horrible the things that you do … what you’re doing is youre guaranteeing that you’ll always be ignored ... And the only way to break that is to say well, even though I know that by abstaining or supporting a third party, I’m going to be sacrificing some of my short term political interests; I’m going to be causing a few more Republicans to be elected than otherwise might be elected; on balance, I’m willing to sacrifice my short term interests in order to do something to subvert the stranglehold that these two parties have on the political process because electing more Democrats, even though it’s a little less scary, accomplishes nothing good. And everyone’s going to have to decide for themselves when they get to that point, and I think and hope that that point is pretty close. And if Obama does move to the center as the consensus is telling him that he should and starts doing things like cutting Social Security, which they’re revving up to do if they can get consensus on, in a very short period of time, I think you’re gonna see lots and lots of progressives and Democrats – even people who hated the Naderites for abandoning the party, start to entertain those options, and a lot sooner rather than later. And I hope that’s the case ...
Re-rise of the Naderites: Glenn Greenwald’s third party dreamin’ **UPDATE: on Libertarianism
Posted on April 22, 2011 by jreid
http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/04/re-rise-of-the-naderites-glenn-greenwalds-third-party-dreamin/


One of the worst myths Democratic partisans love to tell themselves - and everyone else - is that the GOP refuses to support President Obama no matter what he does ...
Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying
Glenn Greenwald
Thursday 25 July 2013 05.09 EDT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa


... Republicans have made it clear that erecting hurdles for Mr. Obama is, if anything, their overriding legislative goal. There is no historical precedent for the number of cabinet-level nominees that Republicans have blocked or delayed in the Obama administration. Chuck Hagel became the first defense secretary nominee ever filibustered ...
Editorial
Malicious Obstruction in the Senate
By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
Published: March 28, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/opinion/malicious-obstruction-in-the-senate.html

Democrats have rounded on revelations about a private dinner of House Republicans on inauguration day in 2009 in which they plotted a campaign of obstruction against newly installed president Barack Obama. During a lengthy discussion, the senior GOP members worked out a plan to repeatedly block Obama over the coming four years to try to ensure he would not be re-elected ...
Democrats condemn GOP's plot to obstruct Obama as 'appalling and sad'
Roger Draper book details how in 2009 senior Republican figures planned a campaign to bring Washington to a standstill
Ewen MacAskill in Washington
Thursday 26 April 2012 16.21 EDT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/26/democrats-gop-plot-obstruct-obama

... “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it” ... Vice President Biden told me that during the transition, he was warned not to expect any bipartisan cooperation on major votes. “I spoke to seven different Republican Senators who said, ‘Joe, I’m not going to be able to help you on anything,’ ” he recalled. His informants said McConnell had demanded unified resistance. “The way it was characterized to me was, ‘For the next two years, we can’t let you succeed in anything. That’s our ticket to coming back,’ ” Biden said ... David Obey, then chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, met with his GOP counterpart, Jerry Lewis, to explain what Democrats had in mind for the stimulus and ask what Republicans wanted to include. “Jerry’s response was, ‘I’m sorry, but leadership tells us we can’t play,’ ” Obey told me. “Exact quote: ‘We can’t play’ ...
The Party of No: New Details on the GOP Plot to Obstruct Obama
By Michael Grunwald
Aug. 23, 2012
http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/