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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:42 PM Jul 2013

Vote on Amash-Conyers Amendment to Stop NSA’s Blanket's Surveillance up now in the house. Live here

LIVE HERE: http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

[hr]

Amash Amendment #100: Stop NSA’s Blanket Surveillance of Americans

On Wednesday, the House will have its first floor debate over NSA’s blanket collection of Americans’ telephone records. The Amash-Conyers amendment—and only the Amash-Conyers amendment—ends the indiscriminate collection of those records. The amendment limits the government’s collection of records under Section 215 of the Patriot Act to those records that pertain to a person who is subject to an investigation under that provision.

How Sec. 215 surveillance works

The Patriot Act’s Sec. 215 (50 U.S.C. § 1861) authorizes the government to collect “tangible things” that are “relevant” to an authorized national security investigation.

We now know that NSA used Sec. 215 to collect metadata on every phone call that every American has made, reportedly over the last seven years. That metadata includes numbers dialed, numbers of incoming calls, times of the calls, and routing information. Many Members who voted for the Patriot Act, including the past chairman of the law’s authorizing committee, have stated that NSA’s blanket surveillance program is far beyond what was intended in the law.

Pursuant to Sec. 215 and at the request of the government, the FISA court routinely enters 90-day orders to telecommunications providers like Verizon to turn over to the government all call detail records or “telephony metadata” for calls within the U.S., including purely local calls. The FISA court approves the procedures that the administration says it will impose on itself to limit its own access to the data.

The administration has not provided a public explanation as to how the telephone records of all Americans are “relevant” to a national security investigation. Similarly, Sec. 215 is silent as to how the government may use these records once it has obtained them.

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does

The Amash-Conyers amendment ends NSA’s blanket collection of Americans’ telephone records. It does this by requiring the FISA court under Sec. 215 to order the production of records that pertain only to a person under investigation.

The amendment has three important practical effects. First, it ends the mass surveillance of Americans. The government no longer is authorized under Sec. 215 to hold a pool of metadata on every phone call of every American. Second, the amendment permits the government to continue to acquire business records and other “tangible things” that are actually related to an authorized counterterrorism investigation. The government still has access to this tool under the amendment, but it’s forced to comply with the intent of Congress when it passed Sec. 215. Third, the amendment imposes more robust judicial oversight of NSA’s surveillance. The FISA court will be involved every time NSA searches Americans’ records, and the court will have a substantive, statutory standard to apply to make sure the NSA does not violate Americans’ civil liberties.

What steps would the government take to collect records if the Amash-Conyers amendment were enacted? The government would have to provide facts to the FISA court to show that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records sought (1) are relevant to an appropriately authorized national security investigation and (2) pertain to the person (including any group or corporation) under investigation.

We know that the government can use that process effectively in its investigations because it already does. Based on the government’s public statements, it appears that the government routinely goes to the FISA court for Sec. 215 orders for tangible things pertaining to persons under investigation. If the government uses non-bulk collection for other Sec. 215 orders, there is no good reason why the government needs bulk collection of Americans’ telephone metadata.

What the Amash-Conyers amendment does NOT do

The amendment does not affect foreign surveillance. FISA simply does not apply to the surveillance of purely foreign communications. See 50 U.S.C. § 1802. FISA court orders under Sec. 215 cover local telephone calls (wholly within the U.S.) and calls between the U.S. and abroad. NSA’s Sec. 215 phone surveillance program covers only calls in which at least one side is in the U.S.

The amendment does not restrict the types of records that the government can collect under Sec. 215. NSA and the FBI can continue to collect telephone records, car rental reservations, hotel receipts, and any other “tangible thing” under Sec. 215. NSA can continue to collect telephone metadata without a warrant and without probable cause that a crime or other statutory violation has been committed. The amendment simply requires that there be a reasonable connection between the documents sought and the person under investigation.

The amendment does not take away a tool that has proved effective in the fight against terrorism. The administration claims that surveillance conducted under FISA Sec. 702, including the PRISM program, has disrupted terrorist plots, including the New York subway plot. The Amash-Conyers amendment does not address FISA Sec. 702 in any way. The amendment concerns Patriot Act Sec. 215 alone, not Sec. 702. The administration’s one and only public example of a Sec. 215 “success” is the conviction of a taxi driver for sending money to a Somali group. Reports suggest that the Somali group posed no direct threat to the U.S., the investigation did not uncover an imminent threat, and the data could have been obtained without Sec. 215. For that “success,” the government has collected billions of Americans’ records.

As you go home for August recess, you will be asked: Did you oppose the suspicionless collection of every American’s phone records? When you had the chance to stand up for Americans’ privacy, did you? Please support Amash amendment #100 and oppose the NSA’s blanket surveillance of your constituents.
Downloads

» AmashNSAfactsheet.pdf

http://amash.house.gov/speech/amash-nsa-amendment-fact-sheet

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Vote on Amash-Conyers Amendment to Stop NSA’s Blanket's Surveillance up now in the house. Live here (Original Post) Catherina Jul 2013 OP
Thank you! nt bunnies Jul 2013 #1
+1 arely staircase Jul 2013 #2
Listening, thanks. nt antiquie Jul 2013 #3
The Pompeo amendment seems like a better alternative. nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #4
What's the Pompeo Amendment that keeps coming up? n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #5
I looked to see if I could find it. What I did find is Rep Pompeo seems to be a fucking Autumn Jul 2013 #11
It seems he snuck that in at the last minute. Thanks because it was yucky n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #13
Whatever the Pompeo amendment is, I bet it would really suck Autumn Jul 2013 #19
This is what I found: ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #46
That's on a different bill, from last year. nt pinboy3niner Jul 2013 #50
Thanks - I wondered what it had to do with anything. ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #52
Amash speaking now. Talking about the unacceptable violation of rights n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #6
Mike Rogers (r) - of the intel comittee FirstLight Jul 2013 #7
Mike Rogers, author of CISPA, and his salad of word games n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #8
Batshit. bunnies Jul 2013 #9
Awww, how special, Michelle Bachman sounding so pragmatic & vehemently defending NSA. Jihad! Catherina Jul 2013 #10
Patriot Act Sensenbrenner in support of Amendment n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #12
Allies of the WH and NSA so far: Mike Rogers and Michele Bachmann n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #14
How telling (nt) bigwillq Jul 2013 #20
Zoe Lofgren: Whole "oversight" claim for the NSA is an ugly joke - and the idea ... Catherina Jul 2013 #15
So far everyone I've seen is against it. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #16
Rep. Barton, TX and Jerold Nadler support the Amendment Catherina Jul 2013 #17
Rep. Poe in support Catherina Jul 2013 #18
Rep. Griffith (R-VA), Rep Gabbard, (D-HI), in support Catherina Jul 2013 #21
Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) standing with Bahcman, Rogers and the NSA Catherina Jul 2013 #22
Rep. Cotton Savannahmann Jul 2013 #23
Holy shit Savannahmann Jul 2013 #24
WTF! The Pompeo Amendment gets a 15 minute vote and this one doesn't? Will it or not? n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #26
The Nays seem to have it. Conyers asking for a voide vote, denied Catherina Jul 2013 #25
The outrage about the "OMG NO RECORDED VOTE... COWARDS" just proves AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Jul 2013 #30
WTF just happened?! bunnies Jul 2013 #28
There will be a vote Catherina Jul 2013 #29
ok. phew. Thats what I thought. bunnies Jul 2013 #31
The vote will be in about 10-15 minutes Catherina Jul 2013 #36
Why does the Amash amendment only get 2 minutes? bunnies Jul 2013 #39
The presiding officer declared it failed on a voice vote and postponed further action on it struggle4progress Jul 2013 #32
Thanks. I never can tell whats going on in congress... bunnies Jul 2013 #33
Take my comment on this with a grain of salt, because I'm no expert, struggle4progress Jul 2013 #35
ahhhh. That makes sense. bunnies Jul 2013 #40
Rules of the House of Representatives ... Sec. 765a. Bell system struggle4progress Jul 2013 #63
My brain hurts. bunnies Jul 2013 #65
From the House Judiciary Dems Catherina Jul 2013 #34
The callers seem to be for the Amash amendment. And people are talking matthews Jul 2013 #37
so what is the Pompeo thing? FirstLight Jul 2013 #38
Some flag waving Michelle Bachman bs. Yes, the phone calls are great! n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #42
White House braced for Congress vote on amendment to limit NSA collection Catherina Jul 2013 #41
It's a start. n/t DirkGently Jul 2013 #43
House overwhelmingly approved Pompeo decoy amendment that purports to "clarify" (lol!) the law n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #44
It went down to defeat. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #45
Yes but not by much. This fight has barely begun. n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #49
Oh I agree, the fight for our Civil Rights continues. Savannahmann Jul 2013 #57
Of course lol. But the bottom line will always be this Catherina Jul 2013 #70
205 Yea 217 Nay - Shit. nt matthews Jul 2013 #47
217 to 205 still shows serious support for change. This isn't over by far n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #51
I know. But I was hoping for some instant gratification for a change. matthews Jul 2013 #53
Me too. 15 Congress people abstained. At least 93 Republicans were for it Catherina Jul 2013 #61
I would really be doing some soul searching if I was Obama. He knows now matthews Jul 2013 #64
The military people overseas had their pillow talk monitored and sniggered over Catherina Jul 2013 #69
It is a really good start. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #55
I know. I bet there's some Nervous Nellies at 1600 right now. matthews Jul 2013 #59
Failed by 12 votes. 217 to 205 if I heard correctly. n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #48
Now they're spending time congratulating themselves... BlueCheese Jul 2013 #54
Repealing the PATRIOT act is a great idea, but this wasn't the way to do it. ucrdem Jul 2013 #56
That was just round 1. Round 2: Rep Rush Holt (D-NJ) introduces "Surveillance State Repeal Act" Catherina Jul 2013 #58
The only thing Congress should demand is greater transparency on data collection efforts. randome Jul 2013 #60
Considering the fact that the DoJ lied to directly to Congress about collecting so-called "metadata" Marr Jul 2013 #66
I don't think the DOJ is collecting metadata at all, is it? randome Jul 2013 #67
Pardon me, I meant to say the Director of Intelligence. Marr Jul 2013 #68
Eh. Even Congress isn't concerned about that. randome Jul 2013 #75
Waiting for the roll call to become available. BlueCheese Jul 2013 #62
final tally: 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats in favor, and 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats opposed Catherina Jul 2013 #72
See post 73 Catherina Jul 2013 #74
Good news, next time we win, RobertEarl Jul 2013 #71
FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 412 Catherina Jul 2013 #73
57% Democrats, 41% Republicans AYE carolinayellowdog Jul 2013 #76

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
11. I looked to see if I could find it. What I did find is Rep Pompeo seems to be a fucking
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:10 PM
Jul 2013

repuke nut in terms of his bills and is a NSA supporter so I quit looking.

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
46. This is what I found:
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:53 PM
Jul 2013

This amendment defunds the EDA, which is a "Great Society" program from 1965 that ostensibly provides financial aid to economically distressed areas of the country in order to stimulate economic growth.

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/perm/?postID=15891

ohheckyeah

(9,314 posts)
52. Thanks - I wondered what it had to do with anything.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:00 PM
Jul 2013

I was distracted - just found out someone came up on my porch and stole stuff. I'm pissed.

FirstLight

(13,362 posts)
7. Mike Rogers (r) - of the intel comittee
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:02 PM
Jul 2013

of course he is saying that surveillance is fine..."our nation is under siege"



oh no...here we go Sept 11, blahblahblah...if we pass this bill we will go back to sept 10...

BULLSHIT

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
10. Awww, how special, Michelle Bachman sounding so pragmatic & vehemently defending NSA. Jihad!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:08 PM
Jul 2013

Michelle Bachmann: "the only people who benefited from these NSA disclosures are" --- guess who? - "those engaged in Islamic jihad".

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
15. Zoe Lofgren: Whole "oversight" claim for the NSA is an ugly joke - and the idea ...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:15 PM
Jul 2013

Rep Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif): Whole "oversight" claim for the NSA is an ugly joke - and the idea the Patriot Act allows mass NSA spying is, too

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
17. Rep. Barton, TX and Jerold Nadler support the Amendment
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:16 PM
Jul 2013

Rep. Barton: this is about whether the NSA has the right to collect every call, on every American, every day. Support the Amash Amendment!

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
18. Rep. Poe in support
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:17 PM
Jul 2013

Rep. Poe now saying the NSA phone records program is akin to a general warrant, which caused the US Fathers rebelled against the British.

"Get a specific warrant based on probably cause, or stay out of our lives! And that's the way it is."

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
21. Rep. Griffith (R-VA), Rep Gabbard, (D-HI), in support
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:19 PM
Jul 2013

Rep. Griffith (R-VA) again brings up general warrants, says secret law has no place in democracy.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
22. Tom Cotton (R-Arkansas) standing with Bahcman, Rogers and the NSA
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:21 PM
Jul 2013

It's a FINE surveillance program lol. Just metadata, just an excel spreadsheet with 5 columns, billions of rows and kept in a LOCKBOX

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
23. Rep. Cotton
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:21 PM
Jul 2013

Is it me, or does he look like a real douche bag? Comparing his experience in a warzone with the rights and privileges in the United States for citizens.

 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
24. Holy shit
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:22 PM
Jul 2013

They didn't even let it go to a recorded vote...

That means they would have lost the fucking vote, and they know it.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
25. The Nays seem to have it. Conyers asking for a voide vote, denied
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:23 PM
Jul 2013
Glenn Greenwald ?@ggreenwald 29s

They only allowed a voice vote on Amash amendment - decreed it failed - now refuse a voice vote #TotalCowards
 

AllINeedIsCoffee

(772 posts)
27. The outrage about the "OMG NO RECORDED VOTE... COWARDS" just proves
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:26 PM
Jul 2013

that a certain someone doesn't know much about how Congress works.

Response to AllINeedIsCoffee (Reply #27)

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
28. WTF just happened?!
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:27 PM
Jul 2013

Are they going to vote on the Amash Amendment?

edit: I think the vote is coming after this one?

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
29. There will be a vote
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:30 PM
Jul 2013

Right now, the House is voting on the decoy amendment by Pompeo. The final recorded vote on the Amash amendment will be afterwards

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
36. The vote will be in about 10-15 minutes
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:40 PM
Jul 2013

9 min until vote on Pompeo amendment, then 5 min until Amash amendment

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
39. Why does the Amash amendment only get 2 minutes?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:44 PM
Jul 2013

While this one gets 15+? Doesnt seem right to me.

struggle4progress

(118,332 posts)
32. The presiding officer declared it failed on a voice vote and postponed further action on it
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:31 PM
Jul 2013

To judge from what followed, Amash may have a later opportunity to insist on his recorded division of the House

struggle4progress

(118,332 posts)
35. Take my comment on this with a grain of salt, because I'm no expert,
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:39 PM
Jul 2013

but almost half the House seems to have been missing from the floor, and I think this was a use of the rules to ensure that House members actually got a chance to vote on the amendment, without having to sit and listen to all the comments

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
40. ahhhh. That makes sense.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:46 PM
Jul 2013

Is that why theyre allowing more than 15 min too? Seems like the clock ran down but votes are still coming in.

struggle4progress

(118,332 posts)
63. Rules of the House of Representatives ... Sec. 765a. Bell system
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:15 PM
Jul 2013
... The legislative call system was designed to alert Members to certain occurrences on the floor of the House. The Speaker has directed that the bells and lights comprising the system be utilized as follows (Jan. 23, 1979, pp. 701-02) ...

Recorded vote, yeas and nays, or automatic rollcall vote taken either by electronic system or by use of tellers with ballot cards--two bells and two lights on left indicate a vote in House or in Committee of the Whole by which Members are recorded by name. Bells are repeated five minutes after the first ring. When by unanimous consent waiving the five-minute minimum set by clause 5(b)(3) of rule I the House authorized the Speaker to put remaining postponed questions to two-minute electronic votes, two bells were rung (Oct. 4, 1988, pp. 28126, 28148).

Recorded vote, yeas and nays, or automatic rollcall electronic vote on recommittal to be immediately followed by possible five-minute vote on final passage (clause 5 of rule XV)--two bells rung at beginning of motion to recommit, followed by five bells, indicate that Chair will order five-minute votes if recorded vote, yeas and nays, or automatic vote is ordered immediately thereafter on final passage or adoption. Two bells repeated five minutes after first ring ...
&c&c

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/HMAN-104/html/HMAN-104-pg542.htm

Absorb the hundreds of pages of rules and you'll be an expert!
 

matthews

(497 posts)
37. The callers seem to be for the Amash amendment. And people are talking
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:40 PM
Jul 2013

about forming a coalition. Now people are defending Snowden.

It won't pass (IMO) but this won't be the end of it.

FirstLight

(13,362 posts)
38. so what is the Pompeo thing?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:43 PM
Jul 2013

it looks like it will pass?


also...listening to the phone calls... this is VERY biparitsan in support, I am hearing Libertarians, Repubs, and Liberals ALL saying they think the NSA is NOT allowed to do this!

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
41. White House braced for Congress vote on amendment to limit NSA collection
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:47 PM
Jul 2013

White House braced for Congress vote on amendment to limit NSA collection

Obama opposed to 'Amash amendment' as vote provides first test of congressional opinion on widespread NSA surveillance

Spencer Ackerman in Washington
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 24 July 2013 16.55 BST


The Obama administration has portrayed the amendment as a reckless push to end what they consider a vital activity for national security. Photo: Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty

The White House, Congress and the National Security Agency were bracing for a pivotal and unpredictable vote on Wednesday on the future of domestic mass surveillance in the US.

....

"This is the moment," said Michelle Richardson, a surveillance lobbyist for the ACLU.

Even if Amash's push to limit the NSA program fails, civil libertarian groups are preparing for a long battle, fueled by the belief that public opinion is finally tipping their way. On Thursday, a court in New York was due to hear preliminary legal arguments on a case brought by the ACLU that challenges the constitutionality of the NSA's mass collection of phone records.

It is the first court challenge since the Snowden revelations, and the ACLU believes it has a strong case because of the publication by the Guardian of a secret court order authorising the bulk collection of Verizon records, and because it is a Verizon customer.

...

The legislative fight is the rare Washington battle that does not divide along partisan lines, but between civil liberties supporters in both parties and security hawks in both parties. Amash's bill has the support of the longtime liberal Democratic congressman John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the House judiciary committee.

...

More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/white-house-congress-amendment-nsa-surveillance
 

Savannahmann

(3,891 posts)
57. Oh I agree, the fight for our Civil Rights continues.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:04 PM
Jul 2013

I figure it will be late tonight, but probably early tomorrow before the Apologists get their marching orders and fill the forum with posts about how narrowly the nations ability to fight Terrorism was saved from the ill informed members of Congress.

 

matthews

(497 posts)
53. I know. But I was hoping for some instant gratification for a change.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:00 PM
Jul 2013

But victory is sweeter after a hard, well-fought battle.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
61. Me too. 15 Congress people abstained. At least 93 Republicans were for it
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:07 PM
Jul 2013

according to estimates I saw on twitter. That's great news.

 

matthews

(497 posts)
64. I would really be doing some soul searching if I was Obama. He knows now
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:16 PM
Jul 2013

that people are angry.

Did you hear the military people? Not happy. Not happy at all.

One woman said her Dad and her brother were either one current and one ex-military, or maybe both ex-military. Anyway, she said that they're both angry and said "this isn't the country I served for".

My brothers (3) are split. Two against the NSA and one chicken shit who won't say anything (which probably means he's for it). That's why we always beat Bobby up every chance we got when we were little. He was born an irritating know-what's-best-for-everyone authoritarian jerk. (He also defaulted on a car loan my ex and I signed for him once.)

We should have thumped his hide more than we did.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
69. The military people overseas had their pillow talk monitored and sniggered over
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:45 PM
Jul 2013

People are very angry but this administration just remains tone deaf. I'd do some soul searching too. Deep.

 

matthews

(497 posts)
59. I know. I bet there's some Nervous Nellies at 1600 right now.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:07 PM
Jul 2013

Did you listen to the people calling in? No wonder there wasn't a recorded vote.

This could seriously hurt Democrats in '14.

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
54. Now they're spending time congratulating themselves...
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:01 PM
Jul 2013

... for getting through all the resolutions. Good thing their health insurance covers injuries resulting from patting themselves too vigorously on the back.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
56. Repealing the PATRIOT act is a great idea, but this wasn't the way to do it.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:04 PM
Jul 2013

This vote was clearly meant to embarrass Obama, like those useless House votes to repeal ACA, and had no chance of actually getting to his desk and no real purpose except political theater. That's about all the House is good for these days. So I'm glad it failed.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
58. That was just round 1. Round 2: Rep Rush Holt (D-NJ) introduces "Surveillance State Repeal Act"
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:06 PM
Jul 2013

Rush Holt: Repeal the Surveillance State Act
News from
Representative Rush Holt
12th District, New Jersey
http://www.holt.house.gov

For Immediate Release Contact: Chris Gaston
July 24, 2013 202-225-5801



HOLT INTRODUCES “SURVEILLANCE STATE REPEAL ACT”

Bill Would Repeal PATRIOT Act, Other Over-broad Surveillance Law

(Washington, DC) Today Rep. Rush Holt introduced legislation to repeal federal surveillance laws that the government abused by collecting personal information on millions of Americans in violation of the Constitution, as revealed by a federal whistleblower and multiple media outlets last month.

“As we now know, the National Security Agency and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been collecting the personal communications of literally millions of innocent Americans for no legitimate reason,” said Holt. “Instead of using these powers to zero in on the tiny number of real terrorist threats we face, the executive branch turned these surveillance powers against the American people as a whole. My legislation would put a stop to that right now.”

Holt’s bill, the “Surveillance State Repeal Act”, would repeal the PATRIOT Act and the FISA Amendments Act, each of which contains provisions that allowed the dragnet surveillance. The bill would reinstate a uniform probable cause-based warrant standard for surveillance requests, and prohibit the federal government from forcing technology companies from building in hardware or software “back doors” to make it easier for the government to spy on the public. Additional features of the bill include the true legal protections for national security whistleblowers, as well as changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to give it greater expertise in reviewing and challenging executive branch applications for surveillance operations.

“The executive branch’s groundless mass surveillance of Americans has turned our conception of liberty on its head. My legislation would restore the proper constitutional balance and ensure our people are treated as citizens first, not suspects.”

http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/07/rush-holt-repeal-surveillance-state-act.html

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
60. The only thing Congress should demand is greater transparency on data collection efforts.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:07 PM
Jul 2013

Then, and only then, will they be in a position to decide whether or not such things as metadata collection is in the national interest.

Without that knowledge, this is simple political posturing.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
66. Considering the fact that the DoJ lied to directly to Congress about collecting so-called "metadata"
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:23 PM
Jul 2013
at all, I'd say Congress is justified in being a lot more aggressive in reviewing the actions of the intelligence agencies than just asking for more transparency in one specific program.
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
67. I don't think the DOJ is collecting metadata at all, is it?
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:32 PM
Jul 2013

But I'm not certain what you're referring to. If you could provide a link or more info, that would be appreciated.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
68. Pardon me, I meant to say the Director of Intelligence.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:36 PM
Jul 2013

Regarding James Clapper's claim that they were not collecting data on US citizens en masse.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
75. Eh. Even Congress isn't concerned about that.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 09:40 PM
Jul 2013

Clapper was sworn to secrecy and then asked about it in a public hearing. It was a Catch-22 situation and he finessed it poorly.

But as someone else on DU pointed out, 'collection' has a distinctly different meaning to those in the intelligence community. I'm not worried about it. It's only metadata and even Carl Bernstein said it seems like the NSA's safeguards and restrictions are pretty strong.

Ironically, Snowden disproved many of his own allegations so this Amash amendment was rightfully voted down.

Now if someone can show us evidence that the NSA is spying on American citizens with the kind of abandon Snowden and Greenwald want us to believe, I'm all for reigning them in.

Absent that, I think we have more real monsters than theoretical ones to fight.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
62. Waiting for the roll call to become available.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:08 PM
Jul 2013

There are a few people I'm really curious about. I do wonder, however, how many of the votes are sincere and how many are pandering or vote-trading to make sure the desired outcome is achieved without putting any individual at risk.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
72. final tally: 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats in favor, and 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats opposed
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:27 PM
Jul 2013
The final tally was 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats in favor, and 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats opposed.

That the vote was so close all but guarantees that as an issue, the NSA’s domestic surveillance programs will be challenged again, and perhaps successfully.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/24/rep-amashs-amendment-to-defund-the-nsas-domestic-phone-metadata-program-fails-205-217/


And here's the letter the BUSH people sent to Congress telling them not to cut this fantastic surveillance program: http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/LetterSupportNSAPrograms.pdf
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
71. Good news, next time we win,
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:26 PM
Jul 2013

Thanks for this thread, Catherina.

Obama best get in line or he will be squashed.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
73. FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 412
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 08:47 PM
Jul 2013

FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 412

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml

Summary
___________Ayes--Noes--PRES---NV
Republican___94---134----0-----6
Democratic__111---83-----0-----6
Independent
TOTALS_____205---217---0----12

carolinayellowdog

(3,247 posts)
76. 57% Democrats, 41% Republicans AYE
Thu Jul 25, 2013, 01:06 AM
Jul 2013

whose side are you on, DU sisters and brothers? This complicates the task of scolding us "bad Democrats" for supporting the bill, but surely won't stop it.

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