"King of England?": why do Americans confuse England with Britain?

[Nye Bevan]

Some US television networks proclaimed the royal baby news by welcoming the arrival of the "future king of England", forgetting about the rest of the UK, notes Tom Geoghegan.

Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish... you may want to look away now. Some of the biggest names in American broadcasting have overlooked your existence amid the hysteria surrounding the newborn Windsor. Star presenters on CBS News and ABC News were among the culprits who referred to the baby as "the future king of England". American talk show host Ellen DeGeneres tweeted: "It's a boy! So happy for my cousin Kate and the future King of England".

But there hasn't been a King of England since William III in the early 18th Century - and there won't be again, unless (or until) the United Kingdom splinters completely. It's a common misunderstanding in the US. The New York Times angered many Scots when it marked Andy Murray's Wimbledon triumph with a tweet that said: "After 77 years, Murray and England rule"

But before we Brits get too sniffy about this equation between Britain and England, we should acknowledge it's a pretty complicated business and the English are sometimes guilty of the same mistake. A common error is for the British themselves to forget about Northern Ireland by referring to "Great Britain", which is an island, when really they mean the United Kingdom. (The Northern Irish are "British" without being part of Great Britain.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-23423784

[Seeking Serenity]

1. Yeah, one would think they knew nothing

of the Acts of Union 1707 or Acts of Union 1800.

[Orrex]

41. Oddly enough, my coworkers and I had a bitter fight about those very acts just this morning.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. avoid bitter. Ale or lager is better.

[Orrex]

48. That's the spirit!

[Seeking Serenity]

53. It's a wee bit early for me, thanks.

[Deep13]

2. Well, king of England and Scotland...

...but the truth is the whole island has been under English rule since the early 17th century.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. and Northern Ireland (and Wales, which is technically included in "England" as a kindgom).

Hence "United Kingdom"; it's not "Great Britain", because that doesn't include Northern Ireland.

[OldEurope]

3. Germans do this, too.

But it is not confusion IMHO or a lack of knowledge. It's just shorter to say England instead of "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
And it is not wrong because he will have the title of a King of England anyway.

[LittleBlue]

4. Because it was England for a very long time

Most Americans have a sense of Scotland, but not Wales or NI. They also see movies like Bravehart where Longshanks is called the king of England.

It doesn't help that England still has some sports where they are England and not UK.

[sweetloukillbot]

28. Really confused me during the Olympics

I actually know the differences between the terms and saw that they were competing as "Great Britain". Sent me flying to Google to find out why.

[NoPasaran]

5. We do it to piss off the Scots

[theHandpuppet]

47. When you aren't using them for cannon fodder

That's okay; they've done very well for themselves over here and the U.S. wouldn't have won its independence without the bravery and contributions of your rejected sons of Scotland.

[flamingdem]

6. Long Live the Cornish Liberation Army!

Cornish National Liberation Army

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Cornish National Liberation Army, abbreviated to CNLA, was a terrorist Cornish nationalist organisation that has threatened to carry out acts of vandalism and arson against commercial targets that it considers to be English.[1]

The CNLA was founded in 2006, allegedly by Stuart Ramsay born in Plymouth, Devon,[citation needed] and claims to represent a merger of the An Gof (originally founded in 1980 and reformed in 2007) and the Cornish Liberation Army. It claims to receive funding from organisations based in other Celtic nations and Irish American groups in the United States, and that some of its members have received training from the Free Wales Army, the Scottish National Liberation Army, and the Irish National Liberation Army, as well as the Provisional Irish Republican Army.

In June 2007, the CNLA issued threats against celebrity chefs Rick Stein and Jamie Oliver, who own restaurants in the area, as well as to customers of these restaurants.[2] A 36-year-old man was later arrested for making the threats.[3]

It has been described by the Cornish political party, Mebyon Kernow, as a 'pseudo-terrorist group'.[1] Dick Cole, spokesman for Mebyon Kernow, released a statement[4] to various London papers, as part of an effort by mainstream Cornish political groups to balance some of the sensationalist[5] commentary in the media.

The group also opposes the flying of the English flag in Cornwall, and has threatened to destroy all English flags in the region.[1]

[HERVEPA]

58. I hear they're quarreling with the Liberation Army of Cornish Nationals

[flamingdem]

59. Really? I wouldn't know if you're kidding me!

I had better google them.

OH there're showing the baby on teevee, down with the baby, down with the Church of England, up with the pagans! Viva Kernow!

[flamingdem]

62. Can't find them but found these cool photos, do they exist?

This is after eating 10 Cornish pasties, a form of burning off calories

[HERVEPA]

69. Check it out

[flamingdem]

73. yew bloody fooled me!

though this group in Cornwall is only a step above the Monty Python sketch!

I like the going after celebrity chef schtick though

[hlthe2b]

7. Huh? The same Americans who think New Mexico is an international destination? That Native Americans

have either been eradicated or on the other extreme, continue to pose a "threat" in some far flung territory out west? Or that Hawaii is a foreign locale, rather than our 50th state? Who believed Sarah Palin when she said she could see Russia from her home in Alaska?

Heavens... I'm amazed some Americans even know that we aren't still under "royal" rule from Britain.

[GreenStormCloud]

11. Palin never said that. It was a line in an SNL parody of her. N/T

[hlthe2b]

18. way to miss the point...

Good heavens.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. So lying is OK to make your point?

Please leave lying to the Republicans.

[hlthe2b]

25. My comment is that People believe her comment--even the satirical take on it.

No, I most certainly didn't lie. But that has never stopped you from making ugly comments (or apparently defending Palin and her fans--exactly why are you HERE?!)

[byeya]

27. The majority got your point - nice one. Professional cranks are what they are.

[cthulu2016]

35. Your contention is that most people believe that Palin can actually see Russia from her house?

Hard to see how you formed that conclusion.

As for what she actually said, what would be wrong with most people believing it?

You can, in fact, see Russia from Alaska.

[hlthe2b]

37. I never said "MOST"

You really have missed the point. But if it is that important to you to defend Palin supporters, then simply strike that comment.


edited for typo

[cthulu2016]

40. Important to me to defend Palin supporters...

Yes, that must be what it is about.

A person could not possibly have an abstract interest in the truth or a generalized distaste for people attributing things to people they obviously did not ever say.

As for "most," yes. You are correct. You didn't say most. I was mistaken and apologize on that point.

[hlthe2b]

42. See Brush's comment in post 29

We are really picking threads here.... But the point remains.

Edited for missing "r" --keyboard sticking

[GreenStormCloud]

56. If she is falsely accused of something, then even she should be defended on that item.

We are supposed to stand for truth.

[hlthe2b]

85. As has already been clearly laid out to you in post 29

Her quotable comments were damn near as ridiculous--that is the point. But, I m sorry I hurt your tender Palin sensitivities. NOT

[GreenStormCloud]

88. Then quote her for what she did say.

BTW - From the extreme of Alaska you can see the estreme of Russia. That is a simple geographical fact.

Pregressives are supposed to stand for truth.

[hlthe2b]

89. Again, so sorry to hurt your deeply held Palin sensitivities....

"Well, it certainly does because our -- our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They're in the state that I am the executive of. And there in Russia ... We have trade missions back and forth. We-- we do-- it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-- where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is-- from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to-- to our state." --Sarah Palin, asked by Katie Couric how Alaska's proximity to Russia gives her foreign policy experience, CBS News interview, Sept. 24, 2008 (Watch video clip)

Stupid enough for you?! And yes, her supporters believed her ridiculous comments re: the vital importance of Alaska vis-a-vis Russia.

I realize a lot of Gunners worship her, but jeebus.

[GreenStormCloud]

98. You are now quoting her correctly. That is sufficient. N/t

[hlthe2b]

99. Again, way to miss the point....

[GreenStormCloud]

100. And my point is that I care about being truthful, even about our enemies. N/t

[hlthe2b]

101. Poor paraphrase does not equate to being untruthful... The point of her idiocy and understanding re:

Russia and her supporters belief in that idiocy is the issue.

You are determined to be ugly, but I'm done with you.

[brush]

29. She said something very similar to that though

It was: ". . . they're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska . . ."

She also said this: "As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where– where do they go? It’s Alaska. It's just right over the border."

'Nuff said?

[pintobean]

13. Palin said she could see Alaska from her home in Alaska?

I would hope she could. I can see Missouri from my home in Missouri.

[hlthe2b]

19. typo... sorry... Palin isn't the point, though...

[Yavin4]

17. That whole joke got started on Fox & Friends

First, Steve Doocey said that Palin had foreign policy experience because Alaska borders Russia. Next, Jon Stewart made fun of him. Then, Palin said in her interview with Charles Gibson that you can see Russia from Alaska.

Finally, SNL and Tin Fey said: "I can see Russia from my house."

[hlthe2b]

20. Palin defending? Really? Regardless, how could you read my post and decide THAT to be the point?

The fact is that we have morons that believe whatever came out of Palin's ignorant mouth--including that attributed to her mouth, no matter how ridiculous.

[Yavin4]

31. I wasn't defending Palin

I was giving you the history behind the joke.

[hlthe2b]

33. gotcha

Sorry, I was still reacting to that ugly attack from GreenStormCloud (which surely shouldn't surprise me ;eyes

[cthulu2016]

8. Blame Shakespeare

"This royal throne of kings, this scepter'd isle... this England".

If England was an isle then it would be the whole of the British sub-continent/large island.

(This post is not intended to be a serious argument about the correct nomenclature, which is not disputable.)

[zipplewrath]

9. they all have the same passport

I was in a pub with a couple of guys going on each other about one team versus another. One was Welsh and the other English. They looked at me to get in on the fun and I merely said "Hey, ya all got the same passport". To a great degree, it's all a distinction looking for a difference.

My wife always goes on about how she's from "Brooklyn" as oppose to say "New York", city or otherwise. I understand the self identification distinctions, but to the rest of the world they tend to be meaningless.

Someone once got all in a huff because some California news talking head referred to New York as a "New England state". I had to point out that to alot of people in California. Anything north of DC and east of Pittsburgh was roughly considered "New England". But those in Mississippi don't consider Virginia to be much more than a "border state" and definitely not "the south". 'Course, Virginia tends to insist that Texas isn't a "southern" state, but a "western" state. Nebraska considers itself the "midwest" but in Michigan it is a "plains state".

Again, in the end they all have the same passport. They shouldn't be surprised that someone from another country doesn't spend much time differentiating.

[arely staircase]

10. It is the biggest and dominant nation in the UK. It is like refering to the Soviet Union as "Russia

back in the day. It is also like calling all white Americans "anglo" which also drives me nuts.

[YoungDemCA]

30. Funny thing about "Anglo"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln

[Igel]

36. And many did.

Consider it synecdoche, if you'd like.

Or the fact that while there is a whole-part confusion going on, it's the ancillary, subordinate parts that are slighted while the controlling, superordinate part is what's named.

Rather like saying you have "25 head of cattle." I mean, we could say "25 tail of cattle" or "25 urethra of cattle," but we don't, now do we?

So few are likely to emphasize the "king of Wales" or have called the USSR the "Tatar Autonomous Region." Although if the truth be known, I suspect a large swathe of the American public would probably confuse "king of Wales" with "king of whales."

[dipsydoodle]

12. Insular ignorance.

.

[HipChick]

14. Because they are dumb..

I often get asked if England is in London..

[Hosnon]

15. It says why right in the article:

"But before we Brits get too sniffy about this equation between Britain and England, we should acknowledge it's a pretty complicated business and the English are sometimes guilty of the same mistake. A common error is for the British themselves to forget about Northern Ireland by referring to 'Great Britain', which is an island, when really they mean the United Kingdom."

[demwing]

16. O we KNOW

we just don't care...

If you expect Americans to know this stuff, it better involve football (our definition, not the world's), beer (our definition, not the world's), or Jesus (our definition, not the world's).

[hueymahl]

22. Umm . . . Because we don't really give a shit?

No offense, but most Americans with a brain and a life have zero interest in the social life of a a bunch of inbred rich fuckers in another country. (actually, that probably did give offense - sorry, but that is how I feel).

That doesn't really excuse our reporters. They, for the most part, are just stupid.

[Zorra]

34. lol! True, many of us have zero interest in it. I'm pretty sure that a great number of my ancestors

on both my mother's and father's sides were sworn enemies of, and, in some way, victims of, the British imperialist monarchy.

Welcome to DU!

[byeya]

43. Virtually all my ancestors were, or are descended from, those who suffered from Brit imperialism.

We're Irish, got kicked out of our homeland in 1653(while others came from Ireland over the years) and dislike the Brits and their pisspoor culture.

[Nye Bevan]

38. No offense taken. Why go to Europe when you have Epcot? (nt)

[Zorra]

46. What does going to Europe have to do with that post?

"mm . . . Because we don't really give a shit?

No offense, but most Americans with a brain and a life have zero interest in the social life of a a bunch of inbred rich fuckers in another country. (actually, that probably did give offense - sorry, but that is how I feel).

That doesn't really excuse our reporters. They, for the most part, are just stupid."



Lots of people who travel to Europe care nothing at all about the social life of figurehead royalty in Europe.

[LanternWaste]

24. I'd imagine for the same reason many people erroneously believe there are 50 states rather than only

I'd imagine for the same reason many people erroneously believe there are 50 states rather than only 46, the rest being commonwealths.

Sometimes the accuracy of a benign statement does little to zero harm... except to those who feel very, very clever by calling out others over an incorrect statement with no real consequences.

[femmocrat]

26. Because Americans know nothing about geography.

It was cut because it wasn't on the test.

Should we say "King of the United Kingdom"?

Even the first sentence of the fourth paragraph interchanges '"Brits" and "English".

[Duer 157099]

32. They need a picture

[Inkfreak]

64. I would of thought more than 1 million British. (nt)

[Silent3]

91. About 66.5 million according to that chart

Each figure of a person represents 1 million people, not 1 million for the whole chart.

[Inkfreak]

103. lol, I feel somewhat silly. Shoulda figured that out. (nt)

[CBGLuthier]

39. I hope by the time that little bastard gets to be King Scotland and Wales will have told

jolly old England to fuck off forever.

[Fumesucker]

44. Why do Americans confuse America with the United States?

The whole damn continent is America, the name of one of the countries is The United States of America.

[Mariana]

93. Oh, people in the UK do that, too.

See the headline in the OP, for example. Does anyone believe the writer of that headline intended the word "Americans" to be understood to include people in Canada and Mexico?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. because we don't care enough?

our lack of investment in geography is not to be taken personally.

[DevonRex]

50. Because I choose to ignore that my ancestors were conquered.

And I'd prefer that everybody ruled themselves again. What English royalty did to my ancestors in Wales, Scotland and Ireland is nothing to be happy about.

[Nye Bevan]

54. So the Native Americans should be ruling the North American continent, right? (nt)

[Starboard Tack]

67. Which English royalty are you referring to?

[pnwmom]

51. He WILL be the King of England. He'll also be King of Scotland, the King of Wales, etc.

In England the Royals can hold more than one title.

If he had been a girl, then things would have been tricky. A law has been passed that would have made her Queen someday -- but only Queen of England. They didn't consult the rest of the Commonwealth on it, so there is an ongoing lawsuit in Canada to prevent the new law from taking effect there. If they don't fix the legal situation, they could conceivably end up with different Kings and Queens in different parts of the UK.

[Arugula Latte]

52. We can't tell our arse from our elbow

and we're supposed to know this?

[Apophis]

55. Because Americans are stupid.

[GreenStormCloud]

60. No. It just isn't important to us in our daily lives.

Most of us will never have to deal with the distinction in our lives, so why worry about it?

[Apophis]

63. Many people don't apply science to their daily lives either but they should still know how it works.

[GreenStormCloud]

66. Many people should apply science in their daily lives.

If people were more scientifically literate they could make better decisions in their daily lives. Knowing the differences about the UK/England doesn't effect any of my decisions.

[Apophis]

68. ...

[Quantess]

74. Hey you want to know something, bud?

Quit slapping your forehead for a second, and let me tell you something: Americans are no smarter or dumber than people in other parts of the world.

I am in europe and I am here to tell you that many europeans are lousy at US geography! As in, "is Chicago a state or a city?" "The West Coast... oh, that's near Colorado, right?" "How far is Oregon from America?"

[Ian David]

57. Well, I didn't vote for him. n/t

[Aristus]

61. Hey, even the British guy made a mistake.

The island on which England, Wales, & Scotland are located is called simply 'Britain', not 'Great Britain'. Great Britain is the kingdom comprising the nations mentioned above, along with Northern Ireland. All Northern Irish who wish to be referred to as 'British', technically are British.

[REP]

65. It's funny to see English calling themselves British

Most aren't; they're Anglos. They took the name Briton from the people they conquered.

[intaglio]

70. Because the English think of themselves as conquerors of the UK

and for years English commentators have reinforced this by using "England" interchangeably with Great Britain. Nowadays they tend to just use "Britain" which is an insult to the Irish.

The correct title should always be "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" because Great Britain refers to the largest Island in the British archipelago whilst Britain refers to all those lands including Eire. If you need to include other portions then you should add, "Lord of Mann and Duke of Normandy" to cover the Manxmen and the Channel Isles.

The whole thing is a bloody nonsense anyway ...

[Quantess]

71. Because it's Imperial.

[napkinz]

72. Why was it called the "British Invasion" in the 1960s?

The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, The Kinks, The Yardbirds, The Hollies, and so on ...

Were any of the bands of that era from Scotland or Wales?

Looking forward to the answer.

Thanks for enlightening me. (I have never really thought about the distinction between England and Great Britain and The United Kingdom.)

[pinboy3niner]

77. There was Donovan, a Scot

Not a band, but a solo artist who had hits in the U.S. back then.

[MrScorpio]

81. The Average White Band didn't show up until the 70's nt

[napkinz]

82. The Play That Funky Music song!

Did they ever have another hit?

I hear that song all the time. I think Craig Ferguson used that song for his show a few years ago.

edit: Oh, wait, that was Craig Kilborn.

[MrScorpio]

84. You're thinking about Wild Cherry

Those guys were from Ohio, not Scotland.

But for AWB, try this on for size:

[napkinz]

86. oh ...

I know I've heard the name "Average White Band" before. Not really familiar with their music.

Thanks for the video.

[MrScorpio]

90. Here's another for you...

[pinboy3niner]

92. Don't forget their biggest hit, 'Pick Up the Pieces'

And notice Stuart wearing a kilt here...

[MrScorpio]

97. Great find, but this one will always be my fave...

[napkinz]

106. I know that one!

That song, or instrumental I suppose I should say, I know that one.

Thanks for sharing.

[Iggo]

75. Yeah, yeah, yeah and they call us America instead of The United States Of America.

Big whoop.

[napkinz]

79. yeah, yeah, yeah ... that's so British (or English?)

[Mariana]

94. And did it in the very headline of this article!

LOLOL!

[Iggo]

95. Oh, that's right! Burn!

[dorkulon]

76. Why do Brits call all Americans "Yanks"?

There's a lot of Southerners who wouldn't like that.

[kentauros]

80. Canadians do that, too.

And I discovered it must be genetic to bristle at being called a Yank when you're from the South

I wasn't really expecting to be insulted, and yet I was. Weird.

[flamingdem]

107. Hmm. Sounds a bit too close to "wank"

if you ask me.

[kentauros]

78. Well, it's not like they make it easy to figure out,

without having to reach for the Encyclopedia Britannica or the Oxford English Dictionary

Let's see what we have so far:

England
Britain
Great Britain (where's Lesser Britain?)
British
Brits
British Empire
Britannia
Briton
Britanny (I know it's France, but has a similar spelling and pronunciation)
UK
United Kingdom

Maybe we should just settle for LOL = Land of Limey
Hey, they call us "Yanks" no matter what part of the USA we're from, so fair's fair

[life long demo]

83. I have a friend who lives in PA but was born in Derry,

Northern Ireland; and she considers herself Irish, even has an Irish Passport. In the North some can qualify for an Irish passport if they have family that were living there before 1916 (?) (don't know if the year is correct).

[sibelian]

87. "King of Britain" sounds a bit silly. "King of the United Kingdom" sounds sillier.

"King of England" sounds much better.

Now, "King of Scotland" - that sounds awesome! "Queen of Scotland" sounds even awesomer!

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Probably the same reason the US is "America". Sticky Wicket Isn't Cricket.

Don't Get Your Naughty Vicar In A Bunch.

[thucythucy]

102. Flanders and Swann have a joke about this.

"Whenever something goes right it's 'another triumph for Great Britain.' And when we mess up it's 'England loses again.'"

They even wrote a song about it:

[sarisataka]

104. King of the Who?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

105. Americans generally call it the UK

King of the UK